Tranny Swap for a Beginner

[Meteshjj]

okay, so i haven't posted for a while, but that's because i had no time for my poor car. I'm working on figuring out the cheapest manual tranny swap for my 1974 Charger, so i have a lot of questions. some quick specs on what I've got:

1974 charger SE
318 4-bbl, recently rebuilt
3-speed automatic (not the 727)
2.73 open differential

except for the engine, evrything is bone stock, plus the engine is numbers matching. That's not what i want, though. eventually, i want a fuel-injected 360 or a 440 six-pack with a standard transmission. will my rear hold up to a 360 Magnum? how about the 440? what is the cheapest option for a standard tranny? i'd love to get a TKO for it, but i can't afford the $6,000 for it right now. is there any cheaper option? I looke at the local yards, and none of them have a a833, so i'm out of luck there, but are there any other transmissions that will fit without major modifications?

[Lord Warlock]

not sure how the small blocks work, but i found it easier to pull the engine and tranny out at one time on my 69 440 727 combo,  than trying to get to all the tranny bolts on mine.  Just disconnect the tranny crossmember and driveshaft, unbolt engine mounts, exhaust manifolds and accessories off, and lift it out the top.  Easy to get tranny apart when out of the car. 

[Troy]

A couple notes...

If you want a Mopar transmission you need an A833. You're major modification will be cutting a hole in the floor. If you stay with a small block or mild 440 you can opt for the 23 spline version which is generally much cheaper than the 18 spline "Hemi" version. Typically you can find mostly complete install packages for $1,200 - 1,500. Add $500-1,000 for an 18 spline. The big issue is that the bell housings are different from big block to small block so if you hook it up to your 318 you'll need a new bell housing if you want to install a 440 later on. You're in great shape if you install a 5.9 Magnum though!

An 833OD is generally much cheaper to purchase AND you get overdrive. They won't necessarily handle hard driving behind a big block though. Shouldn't be a problem behind a small block. These usually came in late 70s 2WD trucks and can be found a lot of times for about $200. Don't get the "granny gear" version! This will require all the same other components any other A833 swap - although the OD has a larger front bearing retainer so it would be a lot easier to get a small block bell housing that matches this size. Not sure if you can find a big block bell that will fit so you may have to machine one if you want a 440.

You don't need a $6,000 TKO kit! Quick Time makes a scattershield that mates a small block Chrysler to a Ford T-5 (basically a Mustang 5-speed but the same basic trans as the TKO). The T-5 should be able to hold the power of any unmodified (or slightly modified) Mopar small block. You'll need to cut a different size/shape hole for the shifter than stock and possibly modify the floor tunnel and cross member. No such luck if you want to put in a 440.

Any manual transmission will not be happy with your "highway" rear gears. You'll burn up the clutch in short order. Put in at least 3.23 rear gears (your swap costs just doubled!). If you put in any of the overdrive transmission options you can go with 3.55 or better since you won't be revving to 4,000 RPM on the highway.

Your cheapest swap over the long run will most likely be a small block A833OD with the intention of swapping in a Magnum later. It will use factory parts and lots of people can help you with information. Bonus is that you can stick it in and still drive the car now. Next cheapest is probably the Quick Time/T-5 but you may have to fabricate some parts, cut parts that would otherwise remain stock, and have a hard time finding anyone with technical information to help.

With any of these you might need a shorter drive shaft. I'm nearly positive the 904 transmission is shorter than a 727 by a few inches and the 4-speeds are the same length as the 727.

With tall jack stands and a transmission jack it's fairly easy to pull the transmission by itself. Downside is laying on the floor in the dark for most of the operation. Make sure you support the engine! Otherwise, a 318/904 should be relatively easy to pull out as a unit through the engine bay. Although the last time I did one I was 18. It would certainly be easier with a "load leveler" on the hoist.

Troy

[RallyeMike]

FYI - Besides 70'd 2WD trucks, other sources for AOD 833s that have the long tail shaft you need:

76 - early 80's Aspens and Volares.

Dodge vans though the mid-80's.

[Meteshjj]

A couple notes...

If you want a Mopar transmission you need an A833. You're major modification will be cutting a hole in the floor. If you stay with a small block or mild 440 you can opt for the 23 spline version which is generally much cheaper than the 18 spline "Hemi" version. Typically you can find mostly complete install packages for $1,200 - 1,500. Add $500-1,000 for an 18 spline. The big issue is that the bell housings are different from big block to small block so if you hook it up to your 318 you'll need a new bell housing if you want to install a 440 later on. You're in great shape if you install a 5.9 Magnum though!

An 833OD is generally much cheaper to purchase AND you get overdrive. They won't necessarily handle hard driving behind a big block though. Shouldn't be a problem behind a small block. These usually came in late 70s 2WD trucks and can be found a lot of times for about $200. Don't get the "granny gear" version! This will require all the same other components any other A833 swap - although the OD has a larger front bearing retainer so it would be a lot easier to get a small block bell housing that matches this size. Not sure if you can find a big block bell that will fit so you may have to machine one if you want a 440.

You don't need a $6,000 TKO kit! Quick Time makes a scattershield that mates a small block Chrysler to a Ford T-5 (basically a Mustang 5-speed but the same basic trans as the TKO). The T-5 should be able to hold the power of any unmodified (or slightly modified) Mopar small block. You'll need to cut a different size/shape hole for the shifter than stock and possibly modify the floor tunnel and cross member. No such luck if you want to put in a 440.

Any manual transmission will not be happy with your "highway" rear gears. You'll burn up the clutch in short order. Put in at least 3.23 rear gears (your swap costs just doubled!). If you put in any of the overdrive transmission options you can go with 3.55 or better since you won't be revving to 4,000 RPM on the highway.

Your cheapest swap over the long run will most likely be a small block A833OD with the intention of swapping in a Magnum later. It will use factory parts and lots of people can help you with information. Bonus is that you can stick it in and still drive the car now. Next cheapest is probably the Quick Time/T-5 but you may have to fabricate some parts, cut parts that would otherwise remain stock, and have a hard time finding anyone with technical information to help.

With any of these you might need a shorter drive shaft. I'm nearly positive the 904 transmission is shorter than a 727 by a few inches and the 4-speeds are the same length as the 727.

With tall jack stands and a transmission jack it's fairly easy to pull the transmission by itself. Downside is laying on the floor in the dark for most of the operation. Make sure you support the engine! Otherwise, a 318/904 should be relatively easy to pull out as a unit through the engine bay. Although the last time I did one I was 18. It would certainly be easier with a "load leveler" on the hoist.

Troy

Holy crap. That is exactly what I wanted to know, with nothing left out. You are awesome. I guess my next step is to find a 70's D150 with the OD tranny. I'd much rather have the overdrive with lower gears in the rear. I was thinking of swapping my rear for a Dana 60 with 3.55's and possibly a Detroit locker. Is it worth the work, or should I stick with my 8.75 and just get a better gearing in the rear?

[b5blue]

If you are certain you have an 8 3/4 just keep it and build it how you want.

[Meteshjj]

it's definitely the 8 3/4. i went through every guide, reference, and book i could find so that i could figure out exactly what i had when i got it. unfortunately, i didn't see the rust in the floor pans because of the carpeting and the mud on the bottom, which brings me to my next point. I have to replace the front floor pans anyway, so what should i do for the hump? I have a bench seat, but i'm not married to it. Is there an easy option to keep the bench, or should i look for buckets?

[AKcharger]

What B5 Said...83/4's  are vastly under-rated. They are tough, parts are available and relatively inexpensive and best of all you can do a gear swap by yourself in 2 hours! I'd start to consider a Dana after you are pushing 1200 HP at the rear wheels but I doubt any of us on this board will get to that level.

here's what you can expect for on the swap:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=95764.0

[John_Kunkel]

You don't need a $6,000 TKO kit! Quick Time makes a scattershield that mates a small block Chrysler to a Ford T-5 (basically a Mustang 5-speed but the same basic trans as the TKO).

Hurst makes an adapter bellhousing for half the price of the QT. Just installed a TKO behind a 360 LA using one and it dialed in at .005" TIR.

[Troy]

You don't need a $6,000 TKO kit! Quick Time makes a scattershield that mates a small block Chrysler to a Ford T-5 (basically a Mustang 5-speed but the same basic trans as the TKO).

Hurst makes an adapter bellhousing for half the price of the QT. Just installed a TKO behind a 360 LA using one and it dialed in at .005" TIR.

Thanks John! I thought there was something less expensive but I couldn't find it.

Troy