Sneaky Parenting...how to control a wayward kid?

[Lord Warlock]

This is a touchy subject, some feel you shouldn't stalk your kids, and even i've been a bit more lenient than many my age at letting the kids roam freely.  My first daughter wasn't that active in the social scene, and really didn't try to get away with stuff behind our backs, until she went off to college and turned 21, after that I really didn't care anymore.  The 2nd daughter however has been a major pain in the ass for the last 3 years.  It doesn't seem to matter how much we trust her, she always seems to get away with breaking the house rules, refuses to do any chores even when politely asked, has gotten in trouble with the law, dabbled in drugs and alcohol and continuously lies to our face when telling us she's sleeping over at a friends house on a Friday or Sat night.  Last Sunday, (monday was a school holiday) she told us she was gonna sleep at a friends house, and I found out (by reading her twitter feed-she's stupid when it comes to admitting stuff to her friends online) that she snuck off and drove to Gainesville with a friend, probably to meet some guy she knows there and to party a bit behind our backs.  I found her out because she admitted that she learned a lesson not to speed that weekend...and while she was at work I found the ticket she got from a notorious speed trap that both of us parents are aware of, and if we knew she was going and allowed it, would have warned her about ahead of time.  (AAA lists the city as a speed trap town and a high risk to drivers)

Anyway, I cannot completely control any 17 year old anymore, but what i can do is not enable her in any way.  She's driving one of MY cars while breaking the rules.   I'd like to put a GPS tracking device on the car so I can track the location and ensure it doesn't leave the radius of the city itself.  She needs access to the car to drive to and from work, so i can't just take the car away,  but I've already confiscated the gas credit card that she stupidly left sitting on the seat of an unlocked car in the front yard, I've had it now for almost two weeks and just waiting for her to report it being lost, but she hasn't said a word.  After this Gainesville trip, which is about an 80 mile one way trip form our house, I'm faced with a situation of removing her driving priviledges except for work, or placing a trace on the vehicle.  She would not allow us to put a trace on her cell phone GPS, or I'd do that, she'd just stop using that phone and buy one of the prepaid phones to get around us, she's done that already in the past.  I've looked online and there are devices you can stick in a car to track them, you have to put a SIM card in them to call the device which then sends a text with coordinates back to your cell phone.  Have any of you parents tried anything like this before? 

How do you control a wayward teen that you know is headed in the wrong direction.  I understand kids want to defy their parents, but she's done crap in the last couple years that are leading her to prison time, and not a prepaid college education.  I really only want to see her succeed in life in general, but I shouldn't have to put up with constant lies and deciet, as well as a totally negative attitude all the time.  She's been given alot over the years, and the wife is just starting to realize that she's out of control and we need to take sterner steps.  Her sister may have resented living at home and dealing with the rules, but she never acted out in this way, and she finally came to her senses when she was at college and is now due to graduate next spring, as well as get married soon after, so I feel we succeeded with that one, but the younger one i just feel like we are failing with her, because she doesn't have the common sense her sister had, and will let others talk her into things she shouldn't do no matter what the risks are. 

I am not a control freak by the way.  I give her computers to use for school, we pay for a cell phone on our plan so she'll have a phone in an emergency, although she does abuse the texting and wifi capabilities...I wish the wife had never allowed the wifi, as she has yet to reimburse us for the data plan she just had to have, and promised to pay for.  And we used to allow her to spend the night often with friends on the weekend.  That will come to an end soon as we just can't trust she won't sneak out of town.  We can't protect her from herself when she's away from home.  And she's already had one too many brushes with the law where she no longer has an easy out if she gets caught doing something, as they'd reinstate her past crime if she gets caught in another.  I was looking forward to her going off to college next fall, but the way its going, that may not work out.  The parents have to be able to trust a kid when at school out of town.  And right now i'm having trouble trusting her.  I will not bail her out of Jail another time, the next time it happens, she'll be spending some time behind bars.  I'd like a way to avoid that if i can. 

Any ideas on what can be done to keep track of my car, when she's using it?  I'm sure many parents do something to keep track of their kids.  Just looking for options.  This forum tends to have more mature owners than the others I go on for other cars, and more likely to have people with kids in High school or college age. 

[Cooter]

Sorry, but she's your responsibility regardless anyway, if she was giving me that kibda grief and she gi t that car badically interest loan FREE???
She'd get s dose of reality quick by having to buy her own ride. I'd sell it before I let my ungrateful kid lose it...

[Lord Warlock]

Thats pretty much how I feel about the car.  When the kids were growing up, I told them that i would match whatever they could save toward a car and help them buy one.  But having daughters, neither one bothered to save shit towards a car, and expected us to just buy them one.  I got the older one a beater S10 pickup from a neighbor for 1500 bucks, that has lasted her through college, I'll end up giving that to her when she graduates.  The 2nd I bought a used miata that cost twice the amount that the truck did, and she doesn't even take care of it....like doesn't check the oil, doesn't check air pressure in tires, and when she has a fuc*up, expects us to fix it.  I tried to make her pay for a tire she ruined by running over a parking curb in a parking lot and tore out the side wall, but its taken her 4 months to pay 150.00 it cost for the replacement tire.  Still owes us 50.00   and she went out and bought herself a laptop last week all while she owes us for the tires still, and two months of data plan.  

The wife seems to be a pushover when it comes to letting the kids have things they want.  I wanted them to earn it, the wife just provides it.  The wife however does earn most of the money here so can't do much about that.   We both earn good incomes, but she's a bit above me in level.  

When i was a kid, and i bought my charger at 17, I paid for the whole car, I paid for the registration, the tags, and taxes.  My dad handled the insurance till i got out of college, but that was it.  I had to pay for all the gas i used on my car or HIS cars.  This kid hasn't even paid for a gallon of gas on her own since she turned 16.  (blame the wife for that one...I would have never given her a gas credit card)

[JB400]

Technically, she is considered an adult without the privileges of being one.  Bugging your car may seem like a good idea, but that's not going to keep her from going.  When you tell her that you know where she's going, it'll probably set her over the edge.  Worse case scenario, she'll move out and you'll have no idea what's going on until bad news arrive.

My recommendation, take her to and from work yourself.  I'd try to reestablish a father/daughter bond.  Make it a one day a week thing to start, or maybe, once every two weeks.  Maybe, stop for an ice cream cone on the way home or go somewhere that you both used to go to.  Her mom could take her shopping or whatever else they do.  Whatever you do there, start real slow.

Bug your car if you're just wanting to know where she's going.  Otherwise, I'd try to reestablish a bond.  Then, she'd be more willing to tell you what's going on.

[Lord Warlock]

establishing a bond is a two way  street, I'd be willing to attempt to, I even started taking her to car shows with me to attempt it,  but she had ulterior motives even with that attempt.  She's unwilling to try to bond with me.  She acts like she'll do so with the wife, but i really believe she only acts that way because she knows she can manipulate the wife into getting what she wants.  As she's proven in the past.

As for the car, while I think its dependable enough driving around town, I don't think its capable of doing road trips out of town, there are just too many variables that a 120k car has with breaking down, and we if we approved of trips like that, we'd send her off in her mom's car instead.  The wife can drive the miata if she has to,  or I will.  Its a fun little car to drive, but i wouldn't want to drive it across the state very often.  Its about as dependable as my old charger used to be when i was 17.  Lucky to get 400 miles without something giving out. 

[RECHRGD]

You and your wife have enabled her behavior by providing everything for her and holding her accountable for nothing.  It's easy to provide kids with all the STUFF and comforts, but it fails them in the long run.  Your seeing the results.  As said, take the car and start driving her to work.  Make her start being responsible for her own bills.  You've got a hard road ahead, I hope you can turn her around, but it's late in the game......

[Mopar Nut]

I so glad I have boys, sent her off to military school, there's one in Virginia.

[Troy]

Well, I have no kids. However, if you and your wife can't get on the same page in regards to expectations/punishment then you're going to continue to be frustrated. Me, being the oldest, had to pay for it all (car, insurance, gas, food, entertainment, and on and on) so I started working at 15. By the time any of my sibling got old enough to drive they were handed everything (the next 3 were all girls). My parent's philosophy is that men should be able to take care of themselves but, for some reason, girls are delicate and need a lot of pampering. Needless to say, most of my siblings are near useless as adults. The 2 youngest were very belligerent and had lots of run-ins with the police/authority figures.

If you don't teach your kid about responsibility, money, and self-reliance then who will? It's hard to think that you are not providing a quality life for your kids - especially if you had a hard life when you were younger. And your kids will be sure to let you know how bad of a parent you are when all of their friends have the latest doodad that you won't buy! However, if you don't provide realistic goals, firm rules, and guide them towards the right path then you'll be supporting them until you're retired (or later!).

Oh, and I'd have no problem spying on my kids. Sometimes it's as simple as checking their social media (as you found out). I posted a link a while back to a DIY theft/tracker system for cars using an old cell phone. Basically everything has a GPS in it these days so you just have to pull the data somehow. It was NOT designed for real-time monitoring because it was supposed to save you from huge data plan bills but I'm sure there are systems that can do what you are asking. Many modern car alarm systems will have some sort of basic tracking. Maybe look at those first and a more "hidden" option second.

Troy

[Lord Warlock]

You don't think I would have? Sending girls to military school is a bit of a stretch to begin with, its a good threat for boys, but girls will work against you tirelessly, including the wife.  We thought she'd turned herself around at the end of her sophomore year in HS when she went through her previous issues, she didn't, she just figured out how to hide it better, and how to lie better to her mom.  I  Would have sent her to a private school if i thought it would correct the problem, but she actually wanted to change schools just so she could escape the problems she started herself and get a do over with a clean slate.  Instead, wife got her into cheerleading (she was a cheerleader herself) and the kid would only do what she had to in order to cheer thru football season then quit.  Did it twice...made varsity cheer, and quit after football.  She's just learned how to manipulate people, which rarely works once you actually graduate, people don't believe you in real life like they did as a kid.

By being the disciplinarian in the house, i have to take all the grief and anger directed toward me.  I was willing to do that if it meant she'd get better emotionally, but she has to try hard to stay mad all the time, its an effort she puts into it daily.  I don't need the hugs and affection from my youngest kid, I figure she'll realize she was wrong later when she has kids of her own, but she still wants us to provide everything she wants, when we say no, she goes out and figures a way to get it anyway.  Usually through her friends who have given her phones to get around the rules, old Ipods to text when we took the phone away.  The car is just the latest big problem as we know she needs to save money for college in the fall, (because WE aren't providing her money to live off of, we are only paying tuition, room and board) the rest is on her, but she doesn't realize how much life actually costs,  I used to work all summer to save enough to make it through two quarters in college, and worked during xmas break to make it thru spring quarter.  Roughly 800 to 1000 a quarter in college is what i had to save, the last two years i had ROTC money to help out, she won't have that.  She probably has about 700 saved, of which she'll have to dip into to pay for her speeding ticket (268.00) I think she'll really be surprised when she gets to school, and without a car she won't be able to work like her sister did to pay for stuff.  

When i'm not working, I could possibly drive her to and from work, but when I'm working that isn't possible.  And where we live, there are no places to work within two miles of the house, we are deep in the suburbs, she'd have to cross several 4 to 6 lane roads to get to a job location...and can't trust her around roads on a bike, last time she took a bike out, she got hit by a car for riding out in front of one.  Course she wasn't supposed to be riding a bike 3 miles away from the house either, told us she was in the next neighborhood over.  

[Lord Warlock]

I started working when i was 12, delivered papers till i was 16, then we moved to Florida, where i got another paper route for another year, saved enough to buy my own car, the charger in fact,  then I could drive to other locations to work at.  I didn't do sports in school because i had a job.  When i graduated from HS, I got a job working on the Oil Rigs during the summer as a roustabout in the gulf of mexico, did that all the way through college, every summer, and every xmas break.  14-16 hour days for two weeks or more at a time equaled enough to survive while at college without having a job in school.  If i wanted something, my parents told me to work for it and buy it yourself.  Course I also grew up in a family of boys, never knew how people raised daughters.  The wife didn't care for her dad either, now i know why.  He was too strict to her also.  Its all relative.  

Ordered a GPS device, will have to pay for a SIM card to make it work, but its something.  If i catch her where she isn't allowed to go again, the car will be sold and she'll just have to figure out how to live without a car.  Her 1st year at college is looking more like it will be a no car year.  I couldn't take a car my first year, the college allowed it, but my parents didn't.  Probably just as well, used to get tickets often driving back roads Alabama to college...got stuck in jail once too.  Only time i've spent behind bars in my life, after that i slowed down alot anywhere near a town.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RealTime-GPS-Tracker-GSM-GPRS-System-Vehicle-Tracking-Device-TK102-Mini-Spy-/151023311705

[b5blue]

Sell the car, hammer the phone. There is nothing more sneaky than a teen when they want to be. (I earned my stripes, I'm a single dad.) Stop playing the game, your job is to raise an adult not a 20-30 something kid. At this point YOU must be the point man. If she screws up call the cops and put her butt in JDC. Let her find her way and pay for her own mistakes or you'll just spoil her, she is 17 so in a year if she don't like YOUR rules she can leave.    

[Lord Warlock]

When I read her tweets, its insane what she talks openly about online.  She solicits people to take trips with her, that she knows she AND the other kid aren't allowed to do.  The problem I see is that most of the friends she has are single parent mom's and they just won't say no to their kids.  The dad's are stricter, but even then they tend to be easier than i would care to be.  She actually stated she planned to leave town on her birthday this year...when she turns 18, and go to Pensacola and introduce her friend to our parents...like our parents would appreciate that, since they know she wouldn't be authorized to go there on her own.  My dad's ex Navy officer/fighter pilot/0-6) wife's dad is retired county sheriff, also not the type to accept free running kids.  If she does turn up there sometime, she'll be very surprised to find my dad taking the keys away, and telling her to walk home.  

Day after she got the ticket in Gainesville, she was trying to arrange another trip to Tallahassee...a trip easily 2x the distance.  Pensacola is 370 miles one way, Tallahassee is 180.  She is gonna be uber pissed off when the wife comes home this weekend.  And finds out the car is not an option like it was. She'll threaten to run off when she's 18, and I'll tell her up front, that's fine with me, I won't have to pay for her college then, we could use the extra $$$ we could cash out for.  Maybe i could buy a viper earlier.  I told the wife that i wouldn't say anything about the ticket till she got back from her business trip, just a way to avoid giving her stress and migranes while travelling.  Wife agreed that we'd deal with it when she got back.  Easier on her.   

Its like having a newborn, a kid you can't trust to leave alone in the house by herself, because you KNOW she'd have a party with 200 HS kids drinking underage and trashing your house.  Haven't been able to go anywhere for a year now.  Were looking forward to sending her off to school so we could travel again. 

[Tilar]

Maybe I am a little toooo old fashioned and it's probably the reason that I've been divorced multiple times, but in my house it's my way, Period. Not that I won't listen to someone elses opinion, but they better have a really good argument as to why their idea is better than mine.

The first thing I would do is take the car away. If you feel she needs to go to work and can't afford to lose the car, Then remove the tire she still owes you for and take her back and forth to work for one week or setup a taxi that she can pay for till she pays for the tire. If she won't pay for the data plan on the phone, It goes away. You can't expect her to learn respect for you if you won't even enforce your own agreements with her.

Too many parents try to be friends with their kids and that just does not work.

[RECHRGD]

She sounds completely out of control.  The days of bringing girls differently than boys is history, or should be.  How many families do you know where just the Dad is the breadwinner anymore?  That's assuming there's even a Dad around.  It sounds like you've been walking on eggshells for years just to keep the peace.  That makes taking a hard line approach now even more difficult, but you've got to do it.  Don't be anxious for her to get married and have babies to make her grow up.  It won't work.  She'll just marry some loser, make a kid or three then divorce and be back at your doorstep.  Time to start parenting!

[Lord Warlock]

I don't usually cave in when it comes to what the daughter wants,  but i do walk on eggshells with the wife, she's got health issues that high stress situations can make worse, and constant fights around the house just drive her blood pressure up.  Twice in the last six months we've had to go to the emergency room because her BP spiked at 180.  She gets bad migranes which drive the pressure up, and Her diabetes doesn't help things either.  She's the one that gives the daughter rope so she can hang herself.  About 4 months ago, we got a call at 11:30pm from the cops that our daughter was at a house party with underage drinking going on, the cops said she wasn't drinking (but the daughters texts indicate otherwise) and my decision was to not allow her to sleepovers at friends houses, without talking to the parent who was supposed to be supervising.  Needless to say, the wife ignored that and started letting her go again, which I believe just enabled the situation.  This time, I don't plan on relenting, if the daughter doesn't like the rules she's welcome to move out, i just won't kick her out since she isn't 18 yet.  She's been daring me to kick her out for 2 years now. 

Once the kids move out, they aren't welcome to move back in again unless they're willing to live by a very simple ruleset.  And even then its only till they can get on their feet and move out again.  I have no intention of having 23-30 year old kids living with us, if they aren't in college, they'll be earning their own way, and paying rent like everyone else does.  The oldest decided she wanted to shack up with her college boyfriend, she knew we wouldn't accept that so she got a job, paid her own rent, and living expenses until she had to take on an internship this last six months.  tossing 400 a month her way has been tough, but we handled it.  We won't be able to do the same to her younger sister. 

She's been so psyched about getting into college lately that she's slacking off in other areas (she did get accepted into one school, but she wants FSU, and i can't see how she'd get in there with her grades being what they are).  Looked at her grades today in school, two F's is hardly the way I would think she'd be wanting to graduate high school with.   I've already told her that she has only two semesters at college to prove herself, if she can't handle the workload she won't be getting any more free time away from home, she'll have to go to Jr college, and deal with us for another year.  Not looking forward to that.  My brother let his kid flunk out of college 3 times before he cut him off, his kid is learning the hard way that getting a job without a degree sucks.  His kid was still in his Freshman year even though he started 4 years before my eldest started.  My eldest is now graduating, his works in a band.   

[JB400]

Seems like this has gone on long enough.  If things are definitely as bad now as you described (now that we have a bigger pic), it's time to just take it all away.  The car doesn't leave the driveway, no phone, no laptop, no i pod, no t.v. in her room, no nothing.  If she complains that she bought the laptop, that's payment for the tire and the phone data until she coughs up real cash.  If she wants these things back, it's chores around the house.  We've lived without these luxuries before, it won't hurt her any.

Her only destinations are school, work, or home.  Unfortunately, you, the Mrs., or a family/friend will have to make sure she gets there.  If you have a friend on the police force, that'd be of help to.  She might have to spend a night in jail.  If her friends want to see her, it's at your house only and not in her room.

She needs a wake up call, and now is just as good as any.  If she doesn't get it now, she'll get it as an adult.  I personally know of a gal that acted this way.  After several run ins with the law, drugs, and having a kid of her own in the middle of the mess, she's doing quite well.  She had to completely get out of the area.  She was in SW Mo, now she's in Jersey and has a job.  Her mom gained custody of her granddaughter.  A family member of mine had to go through similar experiences to get himself cleaned up as well.

Either way, it's time for a family chat.  Keep your cool and give her the opportunity to come clean with the truth.  It'll take some work from everybody, but will be worth it in the end.  If she doesn't learn now, she'll learn with jail time, community service, and heavy fines.  All you can do is your best.

Best of luck

[ws23rt]

I agree with stroker..  Things have been to lax for too long.

I had to deal with a similar situation with one of my kids and it was hard on all of us.

What worked for me was a simple strict set of rules. The only way it will work is there is no going back.---Make it clear that things will never be the same again. They need the strong push forward.  In my case the deal was my sons basic job was to get a passing grade in high school. The payment was food, water and a place to sleep.

I was caught off guard when he quit school. (unexpected).  I had to follow through with my part of the deal or I knew that future agreements would have little value.

There was a tough and tense time to get through but he got a job at a fast food place which gave him spending money and food. (The turning point may have been the day I turned the water off on the way to work.)

A tough strong headed kid can be the hardest to realign.  But they are also better able to make a good life for themselves.   Remember a key point is don't back up.  Give them a hug but they need to know the past is over for good.

[Lord Warlock]

She evidently thought she didn't need to tell me where she was going today, Wife is out of town on business, daughter didn't have to work today, disappeared between 2pm and 4pm, still haven't heard a word from her and its 8pm now, on a school night.  Just went out and took the coil wire off her engine, it will turn over but won't start, hope she enjoys the bus ride tomorrow.  Wife called ealier, found out whats going on, agrees the car should be gone with her grade situation.  Work situation we'll discuss when she returns Saturday.  

About the only way i see her realigning herself is to experience what life is like without all the goodies, and having to pay your own way.  I could have done it but i would have been stuck working on the rigs for years.  She just isn't going to get by making minimum wage.  My parents were strict, but were fair, and i've always respected them for it.  I was out of the house on my own two weeks  after graduation from college. 

[ws23rt]

She evidently thought she didn't need to tell me where she was going today, Wife is out of town on business, daughter didn't have to work today, disappeared between 2pm and 4pm, still haven't heard a word from her and its 8pm now, on a school night.  Just went out and took the coil wire off her engine, it will turn over but won't start, hope she enjoys the bus ride tomorrow.  Wife called ealier, found out whats going on, agrees the car should be gone with her grade situation.  Work situation we'll discuss when she returns Saturday.  

About the only way i see her realigning herself is to experience what life is like without all the goodies, and having to pay your own way.  I could have done it but i would have been stuck working on the rigs for years.  She just isn't going to get by making minimum wage.  My parents were strict, but were fair, and i've always respected them for it.  I was out of the house on my own two weeks  after graduation from college.  

I think you are on the right track and am sure if you are steady and firm she will be in your life to the end.  It is respect and a realization that your intentions are in their interest as well as yours. The details will turn into a fog but your intent to help her will stay in her memories.

[Highbanked Hauler]

 My son elevated lying to an art form when he was a teen and needless to say it caused  collateral damage. I was fortunate this was before kids had cell phones and computers but it was all out war. I will say in his defense he didn't give me any legal problems I caught him regularly saying he was going somewhere and ended up somewhere else and the list goes on. It all came down one day when he was 17  I calmly told him that if I had  to go and identify his body and bury his ass  that his death would kill his mother also at that time and if he could feel comfortable putting her in the ground too to get out. I have never asked but I think his older sister lit him up too because after that his crap started tapering down,didn't stop but it was a lot less. There was more involved than I could ever write here but thats when the scale started to level out. When he turned 18 I just told him I will always be your father but you are no longer my responsibility so do what ever it is you want to do and he slowly started coming around.  There is no easy way and everybody's situation is different. From what you say if you take her car  make sure she can't get your keys. Play as hard ball as you have to guide her not control her,there is a difference and the weight is on her.  Good luck..  

[Lord Warlock]

The stress of dealing with this situation has been a heavy load to bear.  3 years of a irritating phase has been a bitch to deal with.  She's purposely tried to drive a wedge between me and the wife, but if our relationship wasn't as strong as it is, we wouldn't have survived this long.  Divorce is an easy way out as far as I see it, and that would leave the problem in my wife's hands and she wouldn't be able to cope with it, as she isn't tech savvy, doesn't monitor her facebook or twitter accounts, and even when i point things out that are troubling, she (the wife) tries to see it in the best light, while I look at it from the conniving point of view.  I'm getting tired of being right most of the time.  The kid seems to think that the relationship she has with mom is stronger than my relationship with her, even though we've been married now for 28 years, were high school sweethearts and been through tough times before we had kids.  Started dating the wife when she was 15 and i was 17.  Neither of us would even think of doing what we've been faced with this kid. 

The evening before her last fiasco, we made her clean her room before she went to spend the night with the friend, and that included under the bed, as she usually just stuffs crap there to get it out of sight, and i wasn't going to allow that.  Her room normally looks like a bomb went off with clothes everywhere. (she works at a clothing store, so gets alot discounted) When we said no deal, she got lippy to both me and the wife.  Later that night, the wife got a text message at 11:40pm apologizing for her attitude, saying she was stressed out, the wife even got out of bed to come show it to me.  It wasn't till two days later that i found the speeding ticket...conveniently timed at 11:40pm, so it turned out she wasn't sorry, but was laying the groundwork in case she got arrested and we got called.  She probably freaked out with the flashy red and blue lights behind her.

Cell phones, facebook, twitter, social networking in general, computers and the internet have been the biggest enablers of bad behavior.  Things were a lot simpler when all we had was a telephone and had to talk with a parent nearby in most cases.  All these things are great for college kids and adults, but mid teens have no reason to be dependent on them like they are.  I've been a computer nerd since the 80s before there was an internet, studied programming in college and dealt with them at the office for decades, I'm no spring chicken with the internet, but I've been challenged just to keep up with her attempts to circumnavigate any controls we put up.  She was using hacking tools that i'd never even heard of but knew the provider we have restricted their use, and when I did maintenance on her system would dig around and find stuff she didn't want found.  If she didn't screw up her system so often I'd have been in the dark more than i am now. 

If she was as smart as she thinks she is, she'd bide her time till college starts, all it would take is 5 to 8 months of decent behavior and she'd be on easy street to do what she wants, as long as she maintained grades to stay in school, we'd applaud her and enjoy her absence.  She has a lot of potential if she only put it to good use and not trying to get away with stuff. She can be pretty smart if she wants to, but she rarely wants to put the effort where it needs to be.

[JB400]

I did find out a little info about the gal I mentioned earlier.  Turns out, she's back in her hometown, got one of her old jobs back, and is willing to put on a strong effort to show her mom that she is responsible now, as she'd like to gain custody of her daughter at the end of the school year, and take her to Jersey.  I guess she has until June to show that she has turned her life around.

Just an example that if you don't give up on them, your kids may turn out the way you want them to.  You just hit a speed bump

[b5blue]

Hang in there, go to the book store and start reading through what's out there. It helped me.  (Sorry they don't come with an "FSM".) 

[Ponch ®]

how to control a wayward kid?

tell you your kid to carry on,
therell be peace when she is gone (from the house)
then you can lay your weary head to rest (on your pillow)
you won't cry no more...

[Lord Warlock]

quoting Kansas...humorous, as I remember listening to them when young myself, never thought it would apply to me as an adult.