people bugging me about my charger

[Lighthorseman]

In Ohio, Castle Doctrine extends to one's vehicle, so shooting someone for yanking any door would be covered.

   ...Seriously?  Do you really think you could effectively articulate fear of death or grievous bodily harm - well enough to justify the use of lethal force - in a court of law? 

   I'm not from Ohio, and actually, not even from the 'States.  I am, however, in Law Enforcement, and I can guarantee you there's no way you'd be able to justify shooting someone who simply opens your car door.

   It would be interesting to hear input from other LEOs, especially those south of the 60th parallel...

[JamieZ]

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=127_SB_184

The relevant sections being:

To amend sections 2307.60, 2901.05, 2923.12, 2923.121, 2923.122, 2923.125, 2923.126, 2923.128, 2923.129, 2923.1210, 2923.1212, 2923.1213, 2923.16, and 2929.14 and to enact sections 2307.601, 2901.09, and 2923.163 of the Revised Code to bar recovery of damages in tort actions commenced by criminal offenders in specified circumstances even if the offender has not been charged with or convicted of any offense based on the offender's criminal conduct; to create a rebuttable presumption that a person acted in self defense or defense of another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of entering or has entered, unlawfully and without privilege to do so, the residence or vehicle occupied by the person using the defensive force;

Sec. 2901.05. (A) Every person accused of an offense is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and the burden of proof for all elements of the offense is upon the prosecution. The burden of going forward with the evidence of an affirmative defense, and the burden of proof, by a preponderance of the evidence, for an affirmative defense, is upon the accused.

(B)(1) Subject to division (B)(2) of this section, a person is presumed to have acted in self defense or defense of another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of unlawfully and without privilege to do so entering, or has unlawfully and without privilege to do so entered, the residence or vehicle occupied by the person using the defensive force.

(2)(a) The presumption set forth in division (B)(1) of this section does not apply if the person against whom the defensive force is used has a right to be in, or is a lawful resident of, the residence or vehicle.

(b) The presumption set forth in division (B)(1) of this section does not apply if the person who uses the defensive force uses it while in a residence or vehicle and the person is unlawfully, and without privilege to be, in that residence or vehicle.

(3) The presumption set forth in division (B)(1) of this section is a rebuttable presumption and may be rebutted by a preponderance of the evidence.

(C) As part of its charge to the jury in a criminal case, the court shall read the definitions of "reasonable doubt" and "proof beyond a reasonable doubt," contained in division (D) of this section.

(C)(D) As used in this section, an:

(1) An "affirmative defense" is either of the following:

(1)(a) A defense expressly designated as affirmative;

(2)(b) A defense involving an excuse or justification peculiarly within the knowledge of the accused, on which he the accused can fairly be required to adduce supporting evidence.

(2) "Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind that has a roof over it and that is designed to be occupied by people lodging in the building or conveyance at night, regardless of whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent or is mobile or immobile. As used in this division, a building or conveyance includes, but is not limited to, an attached porch, and a building or conveyance with a roof over it includes, but is not limited to, a tent.

(3) "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as a guest.

(4) "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport people or property.

(D)(E) "Reasonable doubt" is present when the jurors, after they have carefully considered and compared all the evidence, cannot say they are firmly convinced of the truth of the charge. It is a doubt based on reason and common sense. Reasonable doubt is not mere possible doubt, because everything relating to human affairs or depending on moral evidence is open to some possible or imaginary doubt. "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt" is proof of such character that an ordinary person would be willing to rely and act upon it in the most important of his the person's own affairs.

So yes, attempt to open or open the door of a legally occupied car (or home) in the state of Ohio without permission and you can justifiably be killed.

[Cooter]

Many, if not most, people have never seen these cars in person - let alone out on the street where they are approachable.

Bingo.  Guys neck-deep in the car hobby tend to forget that.  

Therein lies my point.  'Approachable'? Sure as long as you RESPECT the owners and ASK first.
I've never seen a 1967 Shelby GT500 in person, but I know if I do, the first thing I do won't be to just walk up and yank open the f'n door.

[squeakfinder]

   
      So now it's a good idea to keep are passenger door locked when driving around.   

[tan top]

People are morons but any type of confrontation would just lead to more trouble, even if they deserve it.
Like the earlier poster said, just turn the key, fire it up and say I have to run.

yeah that's true 

Not trying to get overly deep here but I believe this is a lot of what's wrong with society today. Out of fear of retribution, people are not being told they have done something wrong and that they need to stop. Too much as been let go for far too long.

Yes but who's going to put it right?

Everyone who knows right from wrong. Too many decent people keeping quiet and that gives the a-holes license to mouth off even more.

yes that is true  ,     

[el dub]

You can blame the parents and lawyers for all of the above. Spare the rod and spoil the child. Then the lawyers come along and you get what you've got.

[Tilar]

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=127_SB_184

The relevant sections being:

To amend sections 2307.60, 2901.05, 2923.12, 2923.121, 2923.122, 2923.125, 2923.126, 2923.128, 2923.129, 2923.1210, 2923.1212, 2923.1213, 2923.16, and 2929.14 and to enact sections 2307.601, 2901.09, and 2923.163 of the Revised Code to bar recovery of damages in tort actions commenced by criminal offenders in specified circumstances even if the offender has not been charged with or convicted of any offense based on the offender's criminal conduct; to create a rebuttable presumption that a person acted in self defense or defense of another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of entering or has entered, unlawfully and without privilege to do so, the residence or vehicle occupied by the person using the defensive force;

.....

So yes, attempt to open or open the door of a legally occupied car (or home) in the state of Ohio without permission and you can justifiably be killed.

The law has for sure changed for the better. I would have to really feel threatened before I would actually pull it and point it at anyone, but in the the situation we are talking about here, the guy opening the door would know his time on Gods earth could have been cut severely short in this situation.

[Tilar]

You can blame the parents and lawyers for all of the above. Spare the rod and spoil the child. Then the lawyers come along and you get what you've got.

Maybe we need to ban lawyers. 

[ACUDANUT]

In Ohio, Castle Doctrine extends to one's vehicle, so shooting someone for yanking any door would be covered.

   ...Seriously?  Do you really think you could effectively articulate fear of death or grievous bodily harm - well enough to justify the use of lethal force - in a court of law? 

   I'm not from Ohio, and actually, not even from the 'States.  I am, however, in Law Enforcement, and I can guarantee you there's no way you'd be able to justify shooting someone who simply opens your car door.

   It would be interesting to hear input from other LEOs, especially those south of the 60th parallel...

In a nutshell. No. You won't walk.
However, everything depends. Where did this happen ? (a park, a back alley at 2:00 am, a cancer charity event or a toddler's day at church ) Why did you feel your life was in jeopardy.  Was there drugs or alcohol involved.

Yea, 25 years of doing this crappy thankless work.

[Tilar]

I think he would walk. "The guy yanked my door open and reached in, I felt threatened because it looked like he was reaching for my child."

Not a jury in the world would convict you for saving your child.

[1974dodgecharger]

I was videotaped by an iphone on the highway yesterday for like 5 mins with my daughter.  A mother and daughter in a honda vehicle kinda odd, but hey it happens right. 

[Troy]

In Ohio, Castle Doctrine extends to one's vehicle, so shooting someone for yanking any door would be covered.

Yes, the Castle Doctrine does extend to a vehicle here (I'm in Ohio also). Go ahead and shoot someone and we'll keep up with the trial.

Also, would you pull a gun and shoot across the car with your child in the passenger seat? With a child involved you might, maybe, possibly be able to prove the need for deadly force. However, I doubt the judge/jury will have a lot of sympathy if you fired a weapon near your child's head rather than drive away.

Troy

[Tilar]

The child has to be in the back seat, and if he's old enough to be in the front seat out of a booster then he's old enough to pop the guy in the nose himself.

[JB400]

It's talks like this that feed the fire for those wanting to limit a person's right to own a gun.  The way I see it, in the amount of time it takes you to decide to pull a gun and shoot (or offer a threat), you could have pulled the shifter into gear and floored the gas.  A guy on foot doesn't stand a chance against a car with a minimum of 400 horses.  It's a heck of a lot better to get out of the situation than to make it worse.

Let the police decide if the guy is an actual threat.

[bull]

It's talks like this that feed the fire for those wanting to limit a person's right to own a gun.  The way I see it, in the amount of time it takes you to decide to pull a gun and shoot (or offer a threat), you could have pulled the shifter into gear and floored the gas.  A guy on foot doesn't stand a chance against a car with a minimum of 400 horses.  It's a heck of a lot better to get out of the situation than to make it worse.

Let the police decide if the guy is an actual threat.

Not really an option if you're in a drive-thru line with a car or two in front of you and behind. Regarding the talk about gun grabbing, it's more logical to blame the clown who's randomly opening car doors than the guy in charge of protecting his family and property. There's no constitutional amendment protecting random intrusions, unless you're an NSA employee.

[Troy]

I was just trying to point out that it's not the only option - and probably shouldn't be the first. Could it happen? Yes. But why, if it can be avoided? You guys should do whatever you feel is best for you and your family! Wouldn't it have been easier to just have the door locked? In my case, I always have the windows down so locking the door would only slightly slow someone down (but it may have kept a "fan" from opening the door at all since they could just talk through the window).

Troy

[nvrbdn]

we had a girl here that was getting into her car. before driving away she pulled her phone out to either answer it, or make a call. a man walked up to the car, opened the door and shot her. all he wanted was her cell phone. she died right there in the street. several people witnessed the event.

    these people have no concern for a life when they will shoot you down for your cell phone.

[wingcar]

I had many of the same issues when I purchased my 2008 Challenger SRT8 back in mid '08.  It soon became apparent that a quick trip to the gas station or store would be anything but...as I would have to answer questions about the car and show people the various features, which of course meant opening the hood.  I really felt like asking Dodge for pay as I was always promoting the car.
 
Back in the day when I drove my '70 Superbird around the response was never that extreme (of course people either liked it or didn't back then).  So the emotions from others ranged from wow to that car sucks...  But, even those that didn't like the car were still civil about it for the most part...unlike today.  Sadly it a whole different time and it seems as if everyone has an opinion and needs to share it with you even if you personally could care less what they think.
 
I always keep my doors locked when I am behind the wheel.  It was drilled into me by my first driving instructor way (and I mean way) back in High School.  Back then they would tell us that in the event of an accident the door would remain closed.  Of course if you have no AC and the windows are all down, it will only slow an idiot like this down....or perhaps give him a minute to engage his brain.

I have been known to "pack" as well....but if you start to shoot all the stupid people in the world your ammo bill would sky rocket, plus you would get blood on your car's upholstery which is hard to clean.  

Just smile and thank them for their interest and leave as soon as possible.....  

[bull]

I was just trying to point out that it's not the only option - and probably shouldn't be the first. Could it happen? Yes. But why, if it can be avoided? You guys should do whatever you feel is best for you and your family! Wouldn't it have been easier to just have the door locked? In my case, I always have the windows down so locking the door would only slightly slow someone down (but it may have kept a "fan" from opening the door at all since they could just talk through the window).

Troy

Right. It's certainly not the only option but it is an option and 98% of the people who would encounter this type of situation would have handled it as calmly and politely as the thread starter did. The guy who opened the door is fortunate it wasn't one of the other 2%.

[Challenger340]

hey guys, I was just wondering if any of you are being bothered by people about your car. don't get me wrong, I like the attention and all but yesterday I was waiting in a drive through with my 5 year old and a old hippie looking guy opened the passenger door and started asking all these questions. it scared my son but I would never be rude about it. I've had the car about a year now and loved it at first but it's kinda getting old now. I know i'm blessed to have it but do you guys deal with that stuff?

Opening your door with 5 yr old in the Car uninvited was "out of line".....PERIOD ! But it seems you handled it quite well given the circumstances.

I haven't had mine very long, nor driven it all that much, but one thing is becoming quite clear...."quick" jaunts pretty much anywhere, ain't happening !
and,
meeting new people, talking, answering questions, and all the trappings of an "extroverted" friendly personality, seems are required to succeed ?

On a lighter note....anybody got any comical things they've been exposed to.... as a result of just driving your Charger ??
I've had my share of chuckles already....must be others.
 

[6pkrtse]

Worst one I had was in a gas station one time & a business man in a nice suit walked up to my car & put a briefcase on the roof of my car & asked me how much it would take to sell him my car. I said it is not for sale & get that briefcase off of my car before I stuff you in it. I never did find out how much cash was in the briefcase, if any??

[tucknroll]

one last thing about the guy opening the door. if I was as nutty as he was, I could have killed him and just told the cops he said don't move or get out of the car and or anything I wanted to say to clear myself. it's just a bad idea all around to open someone's door.

[Troy]

Worst one I had was in a gas station one time & a business man in a nice suit walked up to my car & put a briefcase on the roof of my car & asked me how much it would take to sell him my car. I said it is not for sale & get that briefcase off of my car before I stuff you in it. I never did find out how much cash was in the briefcase, if any??

I had a guy do a U-turn across 4 lanes of traffic for my Barracuda once. I was parked at the gas station so I wasn't going anywhere.

Troy

[Cooter]

Was at a Dukesfest and there was a BIG guy that was mentally challenged. His mother was about 4ft 3" and trying to keep him under control. She looked like one of those idiots with the huge dogs draggin their asses down the sidewalk.
Anyway, this chap was determined he was gonna climb through my window. He woulda tore hell off hinges if I hadn't directed him to the 'real' General Lee parked out front (Cooters).

[nvrbdn]