A few pics of the 2007 Charger Super Bee

[JohnnyBee]

[Khyron]

My mom always said "If you don't have anything nice to say..."

[Headrope]

I think it looks awesome. Not many - any? - other new cars come out of the factory looking as aggressive. Look beyond the badging and there's one hell of a car there.

[hemihead]

It's the Super Creeder!!! 

[TK73]

I can't wait to ride in one... from the airport to the hotel...

[TylerCharger69]

I just don't think I can ever get past the 4-door concept!!!  A charger should not be a 4-door...Just my opinion though

[wetfeetmi]

Shouldn't a Super "BEE" have a bumble "BEE" stripe?

[Daytona R/T SE]

DC really needs to scrap this body style and start over. They've done it before--how long was there a car called the "Avenger" three years maybe?  They need to quit trying to spruce it up, no matter how much flat black paint, scoops, stripes and other gimmicks they throw on it, it's still an ugly car. Build the new  Challenger, let this ugly piece of shit rot in mopar history next to the Avenger, the Omni "Charger", all "K" cars, and the woodgrain sided minivans

[plum500]

[Deleted] ... what was I thinking...  someone hit me...

[BigBlackDodge]

Looks rice to me.


BBD

[Ghoste]

It's been photoshop tweaked to death and DCX is still the only one who doesn't see it.  All the stripes and badges they're hanging on it just make it more and more pathetic.  It's become a huge joke to itself.  A Charger parody.

[6pkrunner]

Sow's ear - silk purse? Nope.

[Charger1970]

That's one good looking Dakota sedan.

[TK73]

Anybody ever find the projected sales / actual sales for the Magnum 4-door?

[plum500]

Don't know if the projected numbers are floating around out there, but here's LX Sales numbers:

http://www.lxforums.com/board/lx_sales.php?

[TK73]

that 4 door thing is actually selling... damn

[dd44068]

they might as well give it a subaru baja back instead of a trunk

[Ghoste]

that 4 door thing is actually selling... damn

Of course, up until Jan and February of this year, the Magnum wagon and sedan numbers combined were far below the 300.  It would almost seem to indicate that wagons are still a niche vehicle and ugly cars are an acquired taste.

[SirNik73]

all i can say abou this car is:

http://gayfuelmix.ytmnsfw.com/

thats all i have to say about that.

[TheGhost]

that 4 door thing is actually selling... damn

Why damn?  It's making Dodge money.  If Dodge wasn't making money, I highly doubt they would build the Challenger.  Besides, I rather like it.  Looks more aggressive than any new car out there.  The Mustang doesn't look aggressive at all, the Vette is just blech since they did away with the flip up headlights, and the Viper.... meh.  The performance numbers also speak for themselves.

[The Ghoul]

My mom always said "If you don't have anything nice to say..."

thats funny
cuz my mamma always said 'life is like a box of chocolates THE NEW CHAGER BLOWS'
having a bi-polar mother is fun some times 
heres some pics I took of it at the autoshow

Shouldn't a Super "BEE" have a bumble "BEE" stripe?

ummmmm... yep

[RD]

okay kiddies.... MOPAR PHRASEOLOGY IS NOW IN SESSION.

There are some reasons why this car cannot be a Super Bee.

1)  It is not on a B Body platform

2) The Super Bee derived its name from a Super version of the B Body car, hence Super "B"

3) Super "B" was not cool enough, so a play on words caused it to be called SUPER BEE

4) REFER TO NUMBER ONE IF YOU STILL DON'T GET IT.


should DCX read this?

[The Ghoul]

they might as well give it a subaru baja back instead of a trunk

hey that sounds like a good idea
revive the dodge rampage
I am a photo shop hack
but something like this

[The Ghoul]

I kinda liked that little cruch
half car
half truck
all fun

[my69]

 

Shouldn't a Super "BEE" have a bumble "BEE" stripe?

ummmmm... yep

Well maybe that's how the "creedMan" figures how the stripe is

Funny though the ones on the dodge ram PICKUP's have it right 

[HeavyFuel]

Shouldn't a Super "BEE" have a bumble "BEE" stripe?

ummmmm... yep

Well maybe that's how the "creedMan" figures how the stripe is

Funny though the ones on the dodge ram PICKUP's have it right 

Not all were butt stripes.

http://www.graphic-express.com/images/dodge_sb_1_1.jpg

[The Ghoul]

Shouldn't a Super "BEE" have a bumble "BEE" stripe?

ummmmm... yep

Well maybe that's how the "creedMan" figures how the stripe is

Funny though the ones on the dodge ram PICKUP's have it right 

Not all were butt stripes.

http://www.graphic-express.com/images/dodge_sb_1_1.jpg

beat me to the puch

[RD]

I kinda liked that little cruch
half car
half truck
all fun

how about a dodge daytona rampcharger    

[Crazy Larry]

The Mustang doesn't look aggressive at all, the Vette is just blech since they did away with the flip up headlights, and the Viper.... meh.  The performance numbers also speak for themselves.

#1 - The new Mustang looks more agressive than the new Charger - refer to the Steve McQueen 2005 Mustang commercial if you do not think so. The new Mustang's agressive forward leaning nose is what Dodge had to try to copy in the last minute on their Charger to try to squeeze some retro life out of its already pathetic design.

#2 - by your rationale that the new Vette is "just blech" without the flip up headlights - can we also say that the new Charger is "just blech" without the hideaway headlights that became popular with the Charger name? I think so. Dodge was so lazy that they left out, hood mounted turn signals, racing style flip top gas cap, two-doors, and the hideaway headlights, that they were just looking to make money off the name.

[RD]

that 4 door thing is actually selling... damn

Why damn?  It's making Dodge money.  If Dodge wasn't making money, I highly doubt they would build the Challenger.  Besides, I rather like it.  Looks more aggressive than any new car out there.  The Mustang doesn't look aggressive at all, the Vette is just blech since they did away with the flip up headlights, and the Viper.... meh.  The performance numbers also speak for themselves.

dude, you are beginning to remind me of silver, seriously.  You are almost antithetical to 99% of the boardmembers on this forum.  You do realize that don't you?

[greenpigs]

that 4 door thing is actually selling... damn

Why damn?  It's making Dodge money.  If Dodge wasn't making money, I highly doubt they would build the Challenger.  Besides, I rather like it.  Looks more aggressive than any new car out there.  The Mustang doesn't look aggressive at all, the Vette is just blech since they did away with the flip up headlights, and the Viper.... meh.  The performance numbers also speak for themselves.

I still don't get it Ghost, they are building the Challenger because they KNOW people(Americans) want a 2 door and it was too late to re-body the Charger.

The Mustang is a wonderfull design

If the Vettes only good feature was flip up headlights it was poop all along.

The Viper I kinda agree

Performance is just your way to justify the new Charger, its a fugly box , it doesn't matter how quick it is.  

[bull]

I think it looks awesome. Not many - any? - other new cars come out of the factory looking as aggressive. Look beyond the badging and there's one hell of a car there.

This looks aggressive too:

[TheGhost]

The Mustang doesn't look aggressive at all, the Vette is just blech since they did away with the flip up headlights, and the Viper.... meh.  The performance numbers also speak for themselves.

#1 - The new Mustang looks more agressive than the new Charger - refer to the Steve McQueen 2005 Mustang commercial if you do not think so. The new Mustang's agressive forward leaning nose is what Dodge had to try to copy in the last minute on their Charger to try to squeeze some retro life out of its already pathetic design

I liked the Mustang when it first came out.  Today, I saw 3 of them sitting side by side on a dealers lot, and I thought to myself, they don't really look that good anymore.  The grill+headlight combo looks more sad/depressed than mean or aggressive.  The new Mustang reminds me of a girls car, not a balls to the wall performance machine.

Dodge copied the Mustangs nose at the last minute?  Really?  Wow, and here I thought they had that nose since the start of the 06's design.... Silly me for thinking rationally.

#2 - by your rationale that the new Vette is "just blech" without the flip up headlights - can we also say that the new Charger is "just blech" without the hideaway headlights that became popular with the Charger name? I think so. Dodge was so lazy that they left out, hood mounted turn signals, racing style flip top gas cap, two-doors, and the hideaway headlights, that they were just looking to make money off the name.

The problem is, you can't have hidden headlights like the Charger had anymore.  You can have the flip ups that Vettes, and many other cars, had, but you just don't see any car with kind of hidden headlights that Chargers, Cougars, GTOs, etc had back in the 60s.

Before you go off about how the Charger should have had such and such feature, because it was a trademark, there really is no such features on the Chargers.  In 71, hidden headlights became an OPTION, not standard, and 3rd gens look better without them.    First gens didn't have the flip up racing gas cap.  Neither did the 3rd gens.  Very few new cars have hood mounted turn signals.  And, the 5th gens had 3 doors.

However, with the Vettes, since 63, EVERY Corvette had the flip headlights.  Getting rid of them, got rid of one of the Vette's trademarks.  What's next, changing the taillights to a horizontal bar, instead of 4 round lenses?

Basically, what you want is a new 2nd gen Charger.  And I've got to ask you, WHY?  Why want a new 2nd gen look alike Charger, when you can go out, and buy a REAL 2nd gen for the same price?  Same thing with the new Challenger.  I think it looks nice, but, for the money, I'd rather have a 70-74 Challenger, get a car that looks almost exactly the same, but has alot more charactor.

There is such a thing as too retro.  Like the Mustang, or new Challenger.  New cars should have new designs, with a few cues from the past, instead of being designed entirely around the past.

dude, you are beginning to remind me of silver, seriously.

Ouch. 

You are almost antithetical to 99% of the boardmembers on this forum. You do realize that don't you

Yes, I do.  But I also believe what I'm saying, and I'm not about to back down.  The car is a good car, for what it is.  I was never crazy about the name, never will be, but that doesn't stop me from liking the car, as it does to so many of you here.

[The Ghoul]

The new Mustang reminds me of a girls car, not a balls to the wall performance machine.

so they are keeping true to the mustangs haratige?
nothing like the good ol secratary special.

[The Ghoul]

the new vetts are hot. flip ups or not.
They are tankiing because they were overpriced to begin with. i think with the charger being the next 'hot' car and the vett price going up the people that are buying them for status symboles are going for the charger.
sails are in no way indicators of quality or proformance... just look at the f-150
people seem to forget that.
I will say this about the vette. They have spent so much time killing any product that they make that will threaten the vette sails that It has gotten a bit soft. 

[Ghoste]

Well I agree that the Vette is expensive and that it is a status symbol but you are going to have an awfully hard time convincing me that prospective Vette owners will be turning to a four door family car from Dodge as an affordable alternative. 
As much as that thing is no Charger, it's even less a surrogate Corvette and it wouldn't matter how fast it was. 

[RD]

dude, you are beginning to remind me of silver, seriously.

Ouch. 

You are almost antithetical to 99% of the boardmembers on this forum. You do realize that don't you

Yes, I do.  But I also believe what I'm saying, and I'm not about to back down.  The car is a good car, for what it is.  I was never crazy about the name, never will be, but that doesn't stop me from liking the car, as it does to so many of you here.

See that is exactly the point I was trying to make all along.  You do not understand why we do not like the car.  You just assume we do not like it for it being a 4 door and has the name Charger on it.  That may be part of it, but there is so much more, like:

• the disdain we received from Trevor Creed and DCX in general when it came to the release of the chagnum
• the disrespect of our vehicles when DCX and Herr Creed became condescending to the owners and the Chargers of yore
• the disillusioned DCX who stated that they did not want to cash in on a heritage issue, but now are all about heritage

You just do not get it.  You have no emotional ties to a Charger and what it represented.  You are disassociated to the aura and mystique of the Dodge Charger and what it truly represents.  You are out of touch with the true feelings of many Charger owners.  You fail to realize the "slap" in the face that DCX gave the 66-74 Charger owners, not by the development and production of the new chagnum, but by their remarks following its release.

It all falls down to loyalty and honor.  I know it sounds chivalrous and outdated, but those two concepts still matter to some people today.  In this society of fast food and fast everything else to keep up with impatient, need it now, selfish people, some core traditional values still are a mainstay.

I wouldnt come to your house and slap your mom in the face and expect you to still like me would I? Well, DCX slapped us and our cars really good, so should we just shrug of their decadent behavior and say "hey that is a nice chagnum?"  There is bad blood here because of the disrespect given to the "real" Charger owners, not because the car was produced.

[The Ghoul]

Well I agree that the Vette is expensive and that it is a status symbol but you are going to have an awfully hard time convincing me that prospective Vette owners will be turning to a four door family car from Dodge as an affordable alternative. 
As much as that thing is no Charger, it's even less a surrogate Corvette and it wouldn't matter how fast it was. 

why else do you think the pt cruser sold..
after all its just a repackaged neon..
what that has to do with any thing i dont know
im done
need another beer

[The Ghoul]

Well, DCX slapped us and our cars really good,

I agree
what they promiced us

what we got
VVVVVVVVVV

[Silver R/T]

bumble wanna-be I guess they didnt learn much when their first ones do not sell well. Nice car to buy for your mom's 50th year wedding anniversary though.

[TheGhost]

Actually, RD, I felt outraged at Trevor Creed's statements, as well.  If you recall, when the Charger first came out, I hated the car, for those reasons you just stated, plus the fact that it had 4 doors.

However, I took some time, and thought about it.  I realized that Trevor Creed is an idiot, and it was a waste of time to let his comments bother me, or affect me in any way.  So, I stopped, and looked at this objectivly.  Why should I hate a car, because the designer is an arrogant dumbass?  Doesn't make sense to me.  So, I stopped hating the car, and took a look at it.  I liked what I saw, except for the name.  Yes, the heads at DCX are out of touch with us. Yes, they are arrogant pricks when it comes to performance cars.  No, they probably don't know a Charger from any other car on the road.  BUT, they can make a pretty nice car.  The phenominal success of the 300 proves that.  The performance numbers of all 3 cars on the LX platform proves that.  And, the fact that DCX is making money proves that.


And, Silver?  The cars are exceeding sales expectations.

[The Ghoul]

see for me it was never the number of doors or what the name badge sez that killed that car for me. I hat the looks of the 300 and all they did was use the cookie cutter that gm has been pimping for there car lines and applied it to the 300 style.
its like they just slaped diffrent head lights, and rear fenders on a 300 (to me at least)
and yet I dont mind the magnum... maby I just love wagons... or am used to bying things that say magnum on them 

[Silver R/T]

Can you prove that theyre "exceeding sales expectations"? Only if they expected to sell a few nationwide, I take your word for it 300's on the other hand dont stay on the lot for long. They really missed the point with sticking emblems on family sedan

[Crazy Larry]

Actually, RD, I felt outraged at Trevor Creed's statements, as well.  If you recall, when the Charger first came out, I hated the car, for those reasons you just stated, plus the fact that it had 4 doors.

However, I took some time, and thought about it.  I realized that Trevor Creed is an idiot, and it was a waste of time to let his comments bother me, or affect me in any way.  So, I stopped, and looked at this objectivly.  Why should I hate a car, because the designer is an arrogant dumbass?  Doesn't make sense to me.  So, I stopped hating the car, and took a look at it.  I liked what I saw, except for the name.  Yes, the heads at DCX are out of touch with us. Yes, they are arrogant pricks when it comes to performance cars.  No, they probably don't know a Charger from any other car on the road.  BUT, they can make a pretty nice car.  The phenominal success of the 300 proves that.  The performance numbers of all 3 cars on the LX platform proves that.  And, the fact that DCX is making money proves that.


And, Silver?  The cars are exceeding sales expectations.

As a previous poster said - you aren't understanding the concept of loyalty.
Honestly, if they made a Charger in a rockin' Charger bodystyle - but the aerodynamics made the car inefficient and off a bit on the gas milelage - I'd still buy one because I (like many others here and nationwide) are Charger and Dodge loyalists.
But when you have Dodge turn their backs on those who hold the name "Charger" sacred, that loyalty is no longer warrented.

It is Ford who catered to their classic Mustang owners and lovers, that came out with the four headlight agressive grille first. 2005 they hit the streets. You claim that Dodge had the concept first? How so, it took Dodge forever to come-up with a release date for the Charger.

I always wondered why Dodge never had a new "Charger" concept in road shows before production. They had the one from '99 that EVERYONE loved tour for years, but then they went right from re-design, to production.

I even think Dodge knew what the reaction would be so they got the vehicle out in its butt-ugly new body under the radar.

It was Popular Hot Rodding magazine that said it best in the headline:
"The '06 Dodge Charger R/T might look like a Kitchen Appliance, but It's Got the Heart of a Street Fighter."


Performance ain't everything, especially when it comes to Chargers.

[TheGhost]

They had the one from '99 that EVERYONE loved tour for years, but then they went right from re-design, to production.

Not everyone, but change the grill to something considerably less ugly, and change the engine from that weird natural gas engine, and put a V-8 in it, then I'd like it.


Sure the Mustang came out in late 04.  But, the 06 Charger was already designed then.  It had to be, since it was sent to dealers in mid 05.  So, I fail to see how they copied Ford, which, considering how Ford is in deep financial trouble right now, probably isn't that smart of an idea anyway.


The concept of loyalty to Dodge went out the window when Daimler took over.  The Dodge we knew was officially gone, replaced by a half American, half German hybrid.  No point in bitching about how a bunch of luxury car making Germans don't show any loyalty to American Mopar enthusiasts.  Looking back, it should have been obvious that they WEREN'T going to show alot of loyalty to people like us.


Silver, I'll get back to you on that tommorow.  Right now, I've got to be getting some sleep.

[Crazy Larry]

Sure the Mustang came out in late 04.  But, the 06 Charger was already designed then.  It had to be, since it was sent to dealers in mid 05.  So, I fail to see how they copied Ford, which, considering how Ford is in deep financial trouble right now, probably isn't that smart of an idea anyway.

You're wrong on this one - I have the April 2004 Issue of Popular Hotrodding next to me, and it features the new computer re-designs by Dodge for the Charger. The article is "Charging Ahead" by Johnny Hunkins and the computer images are by Chris Norton. They are promoting what  - at the time- would be the new "Charger".
Here are two of the pics from the article....





Notice how there is a backward leaning grille....and this is in April of 2004. The "Charger" front grille design was altered once the new Mustang appeared (Mid to Late 2004) on Muscle car magazines across the globe hailing a popular "resurgance in retro styling" that said to hell with front end aerodynamics.

Ford started it - Dodge tried to pick up the ball but fumbled it to the Germans.

[TheGhost]

Sure the Mustang came out in late 04.  But, the 06 Charger was already designed then.  It had to be, since it was sent to dealers in mid 05.  So, I fail to see how they copied Ford, which, considering how Ford is in deep financial trouble right now, probably isn't that smart of an idea anyway.

You're wrong on this one

Actually, I'm not.  Those weren't DCX released computer drawings.  Those were made by a couple guys who thought that a new Charger should look like.

[The Ghoul]

- I'd still buy one because I (like many others here and nationwide) are Charger and Dodge loyalists.

so youd encourage them to make a bad car?
that will get the compay to start designing in the right direction.
we tell manufacturese what we want by what we buy, not how loyal to there product we are. The only thing you are proving by that type of logic is giving them an ferther inciation of 'just what can we get away with'.
If you want to do that why dont you just buy an 86 charger?
its the same thing except when they introduced this body style it was a sporty upgrade from the boat it used to be.
IMO the shelby was the only one worth its weight in scrap metal.

[volk68]

Why does Daimler insist on swiping aspects from every other car BUT the Charger to slap on this abomination?  The "new" Super Bee package has a modified hood scoop from a 73 RR???  How does that translate into a Super Bee?  Not only that, but the best they have been able to muster for a rear stripe is half a Super Bee stripe...which actually makes it more of a hockey stripe from a 'Cuda...in fact, the car overall is more reminiscent of an E body to me...right down to the blacked out tail panel on this supposed new Super Bee.  What's next, an AAR stripe running down the full length of the car???

Actually paying attention to the Charger heritage would have been far more desirable than stealing from everything they thought was ever cool from the 60's and 70's...especially since not one of those thefts has produced anything remotely desirable about this POS   

[plum500]

Frankencharger.

[69charger2002]

couldn't agree with volk more.. my thoughts exactly. charger is ugly. they have stolen from every cool "catch word", package(daytona, super bee etc), and stripe design, even down to the old school colors for this POS, all in the name of a sale.. but they have only done 99% of it right.. HEMI, RWD, go mango, daytona, R/T, etc.. EVERYTHING but the 1% which is the car, and matters most
i hate them for this forever.. they are selling like crazy around here.. and you should see the inbreds that are buying them
trav

[The Ghoul]

they are selling like crazy around here.. and you should see the inbreds that are buying them
trav

.......

[69charger2002]

kind of like him. but MUCH worse.    more like their mother's brother's son.. which is really still her son 

[Schuler]

Ok....guess what....the 2006 Charger can not be the same as a 1966-74 Charger. Just like the 1986 Charger.

I like the new Charger. It is an aggressive, comfortable, fast sedan.

How can you complain when Chrysler is making the fastest vehicles they ever have? Then, they make retro colors and use retro names for us, the muscle car lovers. Then we complain. Why would they want to waste time making a new challenger.

[TheGhost]

Can you prove that theyre "exceeding sales expectations"? Only if they expected to sell a few nationwide, I take your word for it 300's on the other hand dont stay on the lot for long. They really missed the point with sticking emblems on family sedan

DCX expected to sell around 6000 Chargers a month.  This is how many they have sold per month so far.

http://www.lxforums.com/board/lx_sales.php?

[Charger Aficionado]

[Ghoste]

DCX expected to sell around 6000 Chargers a month.  This is how many they have sold per month so far.

http://www.lxforums.com/board/lx_sales.php?

Aren't those figures actually how many they have built, not how many they have sold?  It seems like (and this is only a perception on my part)the target is moving and no matter how many they move each month, the claim is always that it is "exceeding expectations". 

[Crazy Larry]

Ok....guess what....the 2006 Charger can not be the same as a 1966-74 Charger. Just like the 1986 Charger.

I like the new Charger. It is an aggressive, comfortable, fast sedan.

How can you complain when Chrysler is making the fastest vehicles they ever have? Then, they make retro colors and use retro names for us, the muscle car lovers. Then we complain. Why would they want to waste time making a new challenger.

No one complained about the Intrepid and they sold a butt-load of those - why? Because, Dodge made a good reliable (for the most part) sedan. The Intrepid was a great name and a great vehicle.

So they scrap it and make another good Sedan and call it "Charger" - that is wrong.
The Charger never was a sedan. The car is a decent car but like some others on this thread don't get, it is a slap in the face to call it a "Charger" and not an Intrepid...or Magnum sedan...which it really is.

If they make the new Challenger in the body style and likeness of the concept car - you won't see a word of complaint on the Challenger forums.
Why?
Because they are not just making a different version of the Stratus and slapping "Challenger" on it - they are paying correct homage and respect to the name "Challenger" by following through with the proper body desgin and mechanics.

We, as Dodge Charger enthusiasts, have a right to complain about how they are treating the history of such an admired name in automotive lore. They are crapping all over it by not following through 100% (like travis just said).

[Crazy Larry]

Sure the Mustang came out in late 04.  But, the 06 Charger was already designed then.  It had to be, since it was sent to dealers in mid 05.  So, I fail to see how they copied Ford, which, considering how Ford is in deep financial trouble right now, probably isn't that smart of an idea anyway.

You're wrong on this one

Actually, I'm not.  Those weren't DCX released computer drawings.  Those were made by a couple guys who thought that a new Charger should look like.

You're getting close now - the article's point is that Dodge was still not confirming or denying that there was even a Charger program.....

Page 44: "We contacted several DCX officials who would be in a position to confirm or deny the existance of a Charger program, but none of them would agree to publicly comment on the possibility."

This is April 2004.

So all they had was the Dodge Magnum design to go off of and guess from there as to what it might look like. Why, beacuase Dodge has not even released a drawing of the "NEW CHARGER" and its April of 2004.

BUT in JANUARY 2003 - Ford released its concept of the new Ford Mustang - capturing full retro Designs including the forward leaning grille. (which you say Dodge had first)

Here is a link if you don't want to take my word....

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/01/nextmustang/index.shtml


So after all this, you still are saying that Dodge had their Charger concept down before Ford - but didn't release one drawing/photo/show car for 2.5 years until production?
That's a little far fetched but I'll listen if you have proof of Dodge's 2006 Charger body design was done before Ford's 2005 Mustang which appeared in 2003.

I, for one, still hold fast to the obvious - that they made last minute adjustments due to Ford's new Mustang retro design popularity - hence, no Magnum front end but an "aggressive" forward leaning grille on the new Charger.

[Lightning]

They had the one from '99 that EVERYONE loved tour for years, but then they went right from re-design, to production.

Not everyone, but change the grill to something considerably less ugly, and change the engine from that weird natural gas engine, and put a V-8 in it, then I'd like it.....

actually, that Natural gas engine was a preproduction 4.8 V8 that could run on pump gas....

[my73charger]

Man all I can say is...wait...hold that thought.... ...Ok, anyway all I can say is that 4 doors just ain't cool...unless your...nah...still ain't cool.

[The Ghoul]

How can you complain when Chrysler is making the fastest vehicles they ever have?

some one has been blowing alot of smoak up your ass.
and Im guessing by this statment  its the good kind.

[RD]

They had the one from '99 that EVERYONE loved tour for years, but then they went right from re-design, to production.

Not everyone, but change the grill to something considerably less ugly, and change the engine from that weird natural gas engine, and put a V-8 in it, then I'd like it.....

natural gas or not, the thing made 345 hp and you could hook it up to your natural gas line at home (with a conversion system) without having to fill up at a gas station.

[TheGhost]

Sure the Mustang came out in late 04. But, the 06 Charger was already designed then. It had to be, since it was sent to dealers in mid 05. So, I fail to see how they copied Ford, which, considering how Ford is in deep financial trouble right now, probably isn't that smart of an idea anyway.

You're wrong on this one

Actually, I'm not. Those weren't DCX released computer drawings. Those were made by a couple guys who thought that a new Charger should look like.

You're getting close now - the article's point is that Dodge was still not confirming or denying that there was even a Charger program.....

Page 44: "We contacted several DCX officials who would be in a position to confirm or deny the existance of a Charger program, but none of them would agree to publicly comment on the possibility."

This is April 2004.

So all they had was the Dodge Magnum design to go off of and guess from there as to what it might look like. Why, beacuase Dodge has not even released a drawing of the "NEW CHARGER" and its April of 2004.

BUT in JANUARY 2003 - Ford released its concept of the new Ford Mustang - capturing full retro Designs including the forward leaning grille. (which you say Dodge had first)

Here is a link if you don't want to take my word....

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/01/nextmustang/index.shtml


So after all this, you still are saying that Dodge had their Charger concept down before Ford - but didn't release one drawing/photo/show car for 2.5 years until production?
That's a little far fetched but I'll listen if you have proof of Dodge's 2006 Charger body design was done before Ford's 2005 Mustang which appeared in 2003.

I, for one, still hold fast to the obvious - that they made last minute adjustments due to Ford's new Mustang retro design popularity - hence, no Magnum front end but an "aggressive" forward leaning grille on the new Charger.

I understand what you are saying.  I don't understand why you believe that, because, for your theory to be correct, they would have had to COMPLETELY design the Charger in the span of a month or 2, not counting the time it would take to tool up the production line, so it was actually capable of making the car....

While it's is possible, it's also highly unlikely.  Current car designers take several months going over car designs, working on the little details, etc, even if it's using the same platform as an existing car.  Just because DCX didn't put out drawings of the Charger untill after the Mustang concept pics were released, doesn't mean they weren't working on it beforehand.

And, answer me this.  Why would DCX copy the Mustangs nose slant?  They weren't going for a retro designed car, at the time, so why take a feature directly from a RETRO designed car?  I never said that Dodge had that grill first, what I said was that it was completely unrelated with the Mustangs grill.  Which it is.  The Charger was designed to have a completely different nose from the other LX cars.  THAT is why it doesn't have the Magnum type grill.

How can you complain when Chrysler is making the fastest vehicles they ever have?

some one has been blowing alot of smoak up your ass.
and Im guessing by this statment its the good kind.

The SRT-8 Chargers are faster in the 1/4 mile than anything they made in the 70s.  In fact, the only production vehicle made by Dodge that has a faster 1/4 time is the Viper.  Granted, they have 35 years worth of new tech in the SRT-8s, but the fact remains that currently, Chrysler/Dodge is making the fastest cars they've ever made.

[Crazy Larry]

And, answer me this.  Why would DCX copy the Mustangs nose slant?  They weren't going for a retro designed car, at the time, so why take a feature directly from a RETRO designed car?  I never said that Dodge had that grill first, what I said was that it was completely unrelated with the Mustangs grill.  Which it is.  The Charger was designed to have a completely different nose from the other LX cars.  THAT is why it doesn't have the Magnum type grill.

DCX saw the amount of attention that the retro mustang was getting so they knew the were off in a wrong direction - as they took such a steadfast non-retro stance with their initial Magnum based Charger.

So what I believe happened was that DCX automatically tried to copy the Mustang in nose/front end design to try to jazz it up a bit with some "retro" feeling. A look at the side profile of both the vehicles says enough, it also says Dodge can't immitate that well, because the Mustang sits better and has more aggressive lines......







I believe that Dodge would have followed along with a 300 or Magnum feeling of a leaned back nose on the new Charger (also for better aerodynamics) until those pesky Ford guys up and catered to their muscle car fanatic base and threw a damn monkey wrench in the works.

Hey, at least this gives me some hope that maybe Dodge will suck it up and redo the entire design and come out with something rockin' like the new Challenger concept (and the uber retro design of the new Challenger concept adds to my beliefs a bit more because it shows Dodge has been listening all along and they know they are in the wrong by being anti-retro).

[Chargen69]

 

[TheGhost]

So what I believe happened was that DCX automatically tried to copy the Mustang in nose/front end design to try to jazz it up a bit with some "retro" feeling. A look at the side profile of both the vehicles says enough, it also says Dodge can't immitate that well, because the Mustang sits better and has more aggressive lines......







I believe that Dodge would have followed along with a 300 or Magnum feeling of a leaned back nose on the new Charger (also for better aerodynamics) until those pesky Ford guys up and catered to their muscle car fanatic base and threw a damn monkey wrench in the works.

And I find that all highly unlikely.  The Charger has a different set grill, to set it apart from the other LX cars.  Not to copy the Mustang.

Also, I find the side profile of the new Mustang to be rather ugly...  Maybe if the hood didn't slope downwards...  Doesn't fit in with the rest of the bodylines.... 

Anyway, if Dodge really wanted to copy the Mustang, due to the responce it got, then they wouldn't have released the Charger as it is now.  Instead, they would have held off on announcing the return of the Charger, and done alot more redesigning than just changing the nose.  The Charger does not copy anything from the Mustwang.  It never has, and it most certainly never will.

[Crazy Larry]

I stand by the photos - looks like a total Dodge cop-out to me.

The new Challenger design on the other hand?

Weeeeellllll, there's the Mother Mopar we all know and love.

[TheGhost]

I stand by the photos - looks like a total Dodge cop-out to me.

And I stand by the logic that states of Dodge was going to copy the Mustang on the Charger, they would have done more than just change the grill.

Going by your definition of a cop-out, the new Challenger is much more of one than the Charger.  The Challenger was made solely for the purpose of taking advantage of the Mustangs sales.  Not to please us enthusiasts.  The Charger, on the other hand, was to give Dodge a performance sedan.


There are similarities between other cars.  Doesn't mean they all copy each other.

[Crazy Larry]

I stand by the photos - looks like a total Dodge cop-out to me.

And I stand by the logic that states of Dodge was going to copy the Mustang on the Charger, they would have done more than just change the grill.

Going by your definition of a cop-out, the new Challenger is much more of one than the Charger.  The Challenger was made solely for the purpose of taking advantage of the Mustangs sales.  Not to please us enthusiasts.  The Charger, on the other hand, was to give Dodge a performance sedan.


There are similarities between other cars.  Doesn't mean they all copy each other.

What logic have you been smoking?!?!?!?!?!

Look at the pictures above - the differences are minimal at best! With 4 doors being the most obvious...ooooooo Dodge innovation there   

The Challeneger is a completely NEW design that pays homage to the car that carried the name before it. How is it a Copout to come up with something that is a Dodge original.

and yes, if you look at the '99 concept for the Charger, and look what they came out with - in light of the new Mustang (which was out for 2 years, before Dodge came out with the new "Charger" design) - That LOGICALLY leads to the conclusion that Dodge was influenced by the new Mustang. If you think that todays Car designers don't look at their competition to get ideas, you don't understand business.

The pictures don't lie.

[Sinister68]

You can't polish a turd...

Quote from the movie "Christine"

[69chargeryeehaa]

all i can say is that if a car is re-intorduced with it's name, then it should do the name justice.  for example, i look at the new beetle, and instantly recognize the car as a "bug", same with the new mustang, the mini cooper, the challenger concept, heck even the thunderbird.  when i look at the charger, i see nothing.  nothing on that car even hints of any gen's of the charger at all.  i have a 2001 New beetle Sport Turbo (wife's car, total sleeper ), and a 1974 VW Beetle, the 2 look very simmilar, and i have a 2002 Mustang GT with bullit wheels, even that has major cues from the 60's mustang, and i have of course a 69 charger, but no new charger?   cause it does'nt remind me of the charger at all, whatsoever, period.  it's a nice car don't get me wrong, but it is a "charger" or so claimed, i have yet to see "charger" in the new charger.................rant out

[Chargen69]

"It's dead Jim, let it go out to the far reaches of space... never to return"

[71 Bee Man]

I actually don't mind the rear shot of the one someones posted which appears to be at a Motor Show.

Personally, I'd have prefferred the styling we saw in 99, but I think the problem lies in the fact that we all really like a particular design of Chrger and that it's hard for us to get our heads around new concepts. Look at this new Charger - it's sporty looking for a modern day car and it's got a HEMI V8 that will blow your doors off. Isn't that what it's all about ?

Give it a chance.

[TheGhost]

What logic have you been smoking?!?!?!?!?!

I'm really tempted to ask you the same thing.  In over the year that we have known about this car, NOBODY has mentioned anything about the similarity between the grills of either car.  Except you.  None of the Mopar rags, car mags, forum members, and any other person I've heard from, both opponants and supporters of the car, have EVER said anything about the grills.  You are alone, my friend, and, from where I stand, are grasping at straws, letting your emotion and intense dislike for the car get in the way of simple logic.

Once again, I ask you, if Dodge went to the trouble to copy the Mustang's design, why only the grill?  If they thought the Mustang was worthy of copying, why didn't they do more?  Untill you can answer that with a good explination, your theory is discredited.

Look at the pictures above - the differences are minimal at best! With 4 doors being the most obvious...ooooooo Dodge innovation there 

What similarities?  I only see the grill slant.  Only a completely blind idiot would ever mistake an 06 Charger with an 04+ Mustang.

The Challeneger is a completely NEW design that pays homage to the car that carried the name before it. How is it a Copout to come up with something that is a Dodge original.

Because it's the exact same thing Ford, and now Chevy, has done.  It's not original.  It's basically stealing the idea from Ford, which I find to be a cop out.  I could care less whether it's a cop out or not, as long as the new Challengerr is produced, but it still stands as a cop out, not an original idea.  Even the original Challenger wasn't a Dodge original, but was a rather late response to the success of the Mustang and Camaro.  Much like it is now.

The Charger is also a completely new design, on a platform that is only a couple years old.  Yet, you insist it's a cop out, because Dodge didn't retro theme it.

and yes, if you look at the '99 concept for the Charger, and look what they came out with - in light of the new Mustang (which was out for 2 years, before Dodge came out with the new "Charger" design) - That LOGICALLY leads to the conclusion that Dodge was influenced by the new Mustang. If you think that todays Car designers don't look at their competition to get ideas, you don't understand business.

I never said they don't look at their competitors to get ideas.  Read my response to the previous segment for proof of that.  However, if the new Mustang influenced Dodge's design team as much as you say, then why is the car a 4 door, instead of a 2 door like the Mustang?  Why isn't it retro themed, like the Mustang?  I stand by my conclusion that the Mustang affected a very minimal part of the design of the Charger, if any at all.

The pictures don't lie.

You are quite correct about that.  Everyone else sees 2 cars that couldn't look more different from each other.  I see an ugly, bloated version of a late 60s Mustang in one picture, and an aggressive looking, albiet wrongly named, sedan in another picture.

[Crazy Larry]

I see an ugly, bloated version of a late 60s Mustang in one picture, and an aggressive looking, albiet wrongly named, sedan in another picture.

Speaking of alone?
this coming from the guy who has said Dodge's New Challenger concept is a "Cop-Out"?!

At least we can find some ground to agree to disagree - I noticed you said "wrongly named", I always said I wouldn't bag on the car if it was called an Intrepid (Hell, I'd probably own one right now, but that is off topic)

I have said numerous times, the similarity is from the side view of the grille - that is why I posted side view shots.
Up until now, ALL of the Dodge grilles had a leaned back design as to promote better aerodynamics - a retro forward leaning grille isn't as aerodynamic so it shows Dodge was taking a hint and trying - I'll repeat that TRYING - to syphon some sort of retro vibe from an already busted and flawed design. Hell, even Popular Hotrodding was caying it looked like a "Kitchen Appliance". 

As you have also noticed - they couldn't even follow through with Ford's lead 'cause they HAD to go with 4-doors and blow it all to hell.