Fast & Furious 7

[Ghoste]

I'm going to give a big disagree on that one.  It just encourages other film makers to destroy them too because Hollywood is not the most original place on earth and if it worked once its gotta woked twenty more times.  I don't think it makes the next generation appreciate them at all, I think it feeds their "everything is a disposable commodity" sense.

[F8-4life]

I'm going to give a big disagree on that one.  It just encourages other film makers to destroy them too because Hollywood is not the most original place on earth and if it worked once its gotta woked twenty more times.  I don't think it makes the next generation appreciate them at all, I think it feeds their "everything is a disposable commodity" sense.

Good points to be made.
But about the only thing in hollyweird worth anything nowadays is car wrecks right?

[Ghoste]

Its bizarre but I guess its because of the crazy budgets that a modern film requires so no one will take chances.  They have about covered all of the 60's and 70's popular tv shows and they've milked a lot of remakes.  Its no wonder F&F is on number 7.
I criticize them but I sure wouldn't want to be the guy who has to pick the winners for financing.

[70 Charger RT]

I guess a person should go out and buy a 70 Runner.  Then after the movie comes out next summer it be a more desirable car.  (Hopefully)  Just make sure it doesn't have a 350 in it.

[Mike DC]

I'm going to give a big disagree on that one.  It just encourages other film makers to destroy them too because Hollywood is not the most original place on earth and if it worked once its gotta woked twenty more times.  

I somewhat agree with that.  But we're back to the basic "yeah but at least they think these cars are cool now" argument.  

Asking Hollywood to show muscle cars being badass without hurting them is not realistic.  It's like asking them to feature & glorify the heroes of WWII without showing anyone being hurt or killed in battle and without risking the slightest cuts & bruises to any stunt people.  Unfortunately cars cannot fake injuries & deaths as easily as actors.  When it comes to cars, we value the dummy mannequins getting blown up by explosions on the set just like the real actors.  We complain when a stunt guy fakes his death just as much as if they really killed their lead actor.

I don't think it makes the next generation appreciate them at all, I think it feeds their "everything is a disposable commodity" sense.

Hollywood smashes up every material thing of value, not just muscle cars.  I don't think a movie showing the Mona Lisa getting ripped up is gonna make kids value great art less.  I don't think a movie showing a bunch of 50" flatscreen TVs getting destroyed is gonna make them careless with their big TV at home.  Even piles of cash dollars get destroyed in Hollywood with regularity, does that make kids more careless with money?

[Mike DC]

I just started another thread about this article from this spring.  It was discussing the huge value of the F&F movies for Mopar and the Charger nameplate: 

http://www.brandchannel.com/home/post/Dodge-Fast-And-Furious-050913.aspx

[Ghoste]

If kids aren't influenced by what they see in a F&F movie, why did they need to put a disclaimer at the beginning of the first sequel that the cars and stunts were performed by trained drivers under controlled conditions and not to attempt duplicating them?
Coincidentally (?) I noticed a lot of kids cutting in and out of traffic and racing around like idiots in F&F fashion shortly after it came out spurring a rash of anti stunt driving laws.

[Mike DC]

    
Kids are influenced by NASCAR races too.  How many classic musclecars were torn to shreds on those oval tracks? 

I have yet to hear any calls from the musclecar community to distance itself from its NASCAR history or boycott modern races.

[bill440rt]

More Mopars flushed down the tubes. Yippeeee.

I just don't understand the mentality of how any Mopar lover/muscle car enthusiast would be supportive of destroying what they enjoy.

[Ghoste]

   
Kids are influenced by NASCAR races too.  How many classic musclecars were torn to shreds on those oval tracks? 

I have yet to hear any calls from the musclecar community to distance itself from its NASCAR history or boycott modern races.

Exactly, the mayhem of F&F and its promotion of doing it on the street has a negative impact now and the NASCAR had it back when the cars were new.

[Baldwinvette77]

uhhhhh.. are you guys going to try and tell me that back when bullit, DMCL and DOH came out there wasn't any spike in wreckless driving habits... or did it all start in 2001 with F&F 

[Cooter]

A few of the cars that will be in Fast & Furious 7 due out Juneish of next year. One of my buddy's old college friends is a producer for the movie, so he let him come out and play when they were shooting in GA. He told me "not sure you want to see what ends up happening to these Mopars though."

And again Hollywood trashes Mopars for a buck.  This cartoon series needs to wreck the ricers and leave the classics alone.

Don't hate the game....hate the playa...I blame all those looking for a quick buck and sell out to the movie companies KNOWING FULL AND WELL that their ride will be worth more crushed up and wrecked(movie car and all) than sitting in their garage pristine. ....

[Mike DC]

hhhhh.. are you guys going to try and tell me that back when bullit, DMCL and DOH came out there wasn't any spike in wreckless driving habits... or did it all start in 2001 with F&F

Exactly.  


Besides, the kinds of goof-off teenagers liable to drive like morons after an F&F movie aren't the kinds of kids with the patience to restore a muscle car.  Really, almost any teenager who gets his hands on a legit muscle car appreciates them far more than someone who could be influenced to wreck them after a cheesy movie.  

Don't hate the game....hate the playa...I blame all those looking for a quick buck and sell out to the movie companies KNOWING FULL AND WELL that their ride will be worth more crushed up and wrecked(movie car and all) than sitting in their garage pristine. ....

Yeah but movie companies aren't big on letting people know their car is gonna get killed.  The cars are bought by subcontracted car suppliers who may or may not reveal what they plan to do with the cars.  

Just like people who buy restored or survivor cars with the secret intention of modifying them.  The previous owner finds out when he sees the car later.  Everyone wants to control what future owners do with their car but it's just not in the cards. 

[bull]

   
Kids are influenced by NASCAR races too.  How many classic musclecars were torn to shreds on those oval tracks?  

I have yet to hear any calls from the musclecar community to distance itself from its NASCAR history or boycott modern races.

Exactly, the mayhem of F&F and its promotion of doing it on the street has a negative impact now and the NASCAR had it back when the cars were new.

I'd say NASCAR had a small and indirect impact on the cars since they weren't actually wrecking production units. On the other hand the Hollyweirdos are destroying production cars as well as possibly promoting abuse by idiots who watch the films. Still, I seriously doubt there are people seeking out classic Chargers for the sole purpose of acting out scenes from F&F or DOH and Bullitt. There might be some young fools imitating the movie with mom's crappy '95 Skylark if youtube is any indication but I've seen little to no evidence of 19-year-olds buying up Chargers to act like Vin Diesel. Likewise I've heard no reports of 40-60 year olds doing the same at all, let alone with a valuable classic. In general I don't think Hollywood has as much influence on the public as it would like to believe. Does one studio influence another? Probably. The 2nd gen Charger is probably as popular now as it's ever been in Hollywood.

I'm not a Hollywood executive but you'd think a smarter way for the studios to go would be to create standardized full cage modular stunt cars that would accept just about any body you could put on them. Given that most of their choices for "star cars" are the most popular ones made, the body parts for them are readily available and there would be no need to retrofit a 45-year old car for modern day stunt work. Save the real classics for the close-ups and trash the modular covered in AMD sheetmetal.

[Mike DC]

I'm not a Hollywood executive but you'd think a smarter way for the studios to go would be to create standardized full cage modular stunt cars that would accept just about any body you could put on them. Given that most of their choices for "star cars" are the most popular ones made, the body parts for them are readily available and there would be no need to retrofit a 45-year old car for modern day stunt work. Save the real classics for the close-ups and trash the modular covered in AMD sheetmetal.

A modern NASCAR doesn't look much like a production car.  Hollywood's standards are loose but they do want their stunt cars to look more stock than that.  (Yeah, I know old NASCARs looked more stock.  That's because they WERE using more stock sheetmetal and unibody understructure.)

A generic cage chassis won't look like the real thing unless the dimensions are lined up pretty close with the specific car it represents.  

By the time you build an elaborate cage just for that car, and hang the outer skin panels all over it, and make the whole thing look stock enough . . . you might as well have used the shell of a stock unibody and make your life easier . . . which is pretty much what they do right now.

[JB400]

uhhhhh.. are you guys going to try and tell me that back when bullit, DMCL and DOH came out there wasn't any spike in wreckless driving habits... or did it all start in 2001 with F&F  

Certainly not.  Here's some video evidence at how well behaved everyone was.  These cars were old lady driven and pampered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NKeJJYwBWk

[1974dodgecharger]

kids could not afford these cars back in the day so NO none of this racing stuff happened back then.  Alot of the folks wore their racing jackets, but got in the pinto or some sub 1500 dollar vehicle, but not NO 3k plus vehicle that was expensive!  Imagine a kid now buying a 30k plus car off the lot at 16 years old now imagine that same 16 year old back in the 60s buying a 3k plus car off the lot very expensive.  Alot of these cars were granny driven like someone mentioned, but NO way movies influenced such behavior it all started with FandF back in 2001 everyone wanted to race after that movie.

[bull]

By the time you build an elaborate cage just for that car, and hang the outer skin panels all over it, and make the whole thing look stock enough . . . you might as well have used the shell of a stock unibody and make your life easier . . . which is pretty much what they do right now.

Maybe, but the production cars are no longer usable after a couple of stunts and a 2nd, 3rd or 4th one has to be retrofitted depending on how many stunts are done. Aside from the ethics, something that was actually built to handle a jump or a rollover could be reused several times in subsequent stunts and movies. And the average person doesn't know what stock looks like anyway. How many times have you seen a car or truck on its side "wrecked" in some post-apocalyptic movie with no drive train? Probably 2 people out of 100 notice or care. And those are the two people who'd probably be most happy that a real classic wasn't trashed.

[Ghoste]

True Bull, when they were released at the theater I wonder how many people noticed the Charger lose 10 hubcaps in Bullitt or drive past the exploding fuel station, how many noticed the Chevy in American Grafitti that flipped had different wheels than the one Harrison Ford drove the rest of the film, how many noticed it was a 69 Camaro hitting the dozers in Vanishing Point or the 68 in DMCL and the RTR and non RT 69's?

[Mike DC]

                                 
. . . and how many of them would think it's a big deal to wreck a rusty bondo-bucket unibody shell during a stunt? 

Hollywood is catering to the majority the way they do things right now.

----------------------

Maybe, but the production cars are no longer usable after a couple of stunts and a 2nd, 3rd or 4th one has to be retrofitted depending on how many stunts are done. Aside from the ethics, something that was actually built to handle a jump or a rollover could be reused several times in subsequent stunts and movies. And the average person doesn't know what stock looks like anyway. How many times have you seen a car or truck on its side "wrecked" in some post-apocalyptic movie with no drive train? Probably 2 people out of 100 notice or care. And those are the two people who'd probably be most happy that a real classic wasn't trashed.

A custom-caged stunt car would no longer be very usable after one stunt either.  If there's nothing but one layer of outer skin over a cage then the cage is gonna do a fair amount of bending when it gets flipped.  It might be fixable but that won't be a minor operation.  The cage car won't really be more convenient than using production unibodies for the job.


The layers of production unibody on the current stunt cars actually help cushion the wreck and make it safer.  (Dale Earnhardt Sr. died in a very well-caged "stunt car" with only one layer of outer skin.)  And even with production unibodies over the cage, I've seen in-car footage from rollovers where the cage is still flexing & bending visibly.  You're not gonna flip & crash cars hard without them needing major repairs, cage or unibody.


There is also the scheduling issue.  On "Dukes" in 2005 they cable-launched an extra one of the decent cars that they really didn't need to, just because they had to get one ready in a hurry and the other jump cars all needed cosmetic repairs from previous takes. 

[bull]

Well, good idea or not nothing gets decided here. If I were directing F&F I'd find a way to do it without wrecking real classics, and given the insane budgets they have to play with an alternative could be found. There is no People for the Ethical Treatment of Muscle Cars organization montoring the use of cars in Hollywood yet so while chickens and rats are safe the abuse and murder of classic cars will continue in earnest.

[Mike DC]

        
I used to feel more strongly about it.  But there's just too much difference between what they're using and a nice complete car.  AMD is already making most of what they are still wrecking.  

And in the case of the Fast & Furious movies, I think their ultimate value to the hobby is more valuable than a number of raggedy old Charger shells.  You don't have to like the movies but you have to acknowledge their impact & influence. 

[F8-4life]

You can love these cars & also love seeing them destroyed.
Now if they are RT's and GTX cars then they would be in trouble.

[bill440rt]

I'm not a Hollywood executive but you'd think a smarter way for the studios to go would be to create standardized full cage modular stunt cars that would accept just about any body you could put on them. Given that most of their choices for "star cars" are the most popular ones made, the body parts for them are readily available and there would be no need to retrofit a 45-year old car for modern day stunt work. Save the real classics for the close-ups and trash the modular covered in AMD sheetmetal.

I for one wouldn't bat an eye at this, seems like a logical way to go.
The cars they are destroying now are so caged up & reinforced it probably wouldn't take much more to just build an internal structure to hang sheetmetal on. It would also probably be easier to repair than to completely build another one. A internal cage is modular, cut off what is damaged & replace it. Design & build it once, than make as many as you possibly need. The blue prints would always be there.
Use the real ones for close up shots.

Earnhart died after slamming straight into a wall at 100+ mph in a caged race car, and IIRC he wasn't wearing a neck brace either. These stunt cars are also stiffened up considerably with caging. I don't care how many crumple zones a stock car body has, they're not going to save you from hitting a wall at that speed.

Let's face it, the number of "raggety old Charger shells" and Mopars in particular are becoming harder to find. Even "if" they are just using base model cars, there are that many project cars now wiped out.

[UH60L]

   
Kids are influenced by NASCAR races too.  How many classic musclecars were torn to shreds on those oval tracks? 

I have yet to hear any calls from the musclecar community to distance itself from its NASCAR history or boycott modern races.

Not sure if your a NASCAR fan, but a quick google search and you'll see that Dodge, in fact, pulled out of NASCAR at the end of last season.  Not saying I support that decision, just pointing out that Dodge is not in NASCAR and Penske Racing switched to Ford.....thus a true mopar guy...probably isn't watching NASCAR much these days.....

As to the influence, I have yet to find a freeway (or any other road) that resembles a NASCAR track and technically the fastest I have ever gone in my charger is 142...on a very long straight road with no turns (left or otherwise).