Questions about my VIN tag.

[Ghoste]

So why is he working to promote this as something it isn't?

[resq302]

Security huh?  Well it looks to pretty obvious he intends to keep the deception going.  Any bets as to how soon it shows up at auction?  (because the lie isn't being fortified to boost his personal ego)

Having met the owner on a few occasions (he's a very good friend, of my very good friend), I have never found him to have a big ego  He's got some really nice cars though, and a lot of super rare stuff.

As for the security, it was a guy sitting in a chair, who was presumably there to keep people from climbing in and out of the car. I probably would've done the same, given how some behave at car shows, licking over stuff that isn't theirs  :yes nod: 

Again, just my 

XS29,

I can understand that.  However, you just need a friend to hang out with your car when you are not around it.  We all do that when we are parked in the show field.  Its common courtesy.

Maybe your friend can chime in here and clear a bunch of things up then.  I still find it fishy that Tufcat was flipping through the report and the security guy made him put it down.  If you are going to have stuff laid out for display, then you are inviting people to touch it.  My book of resto pics I want people to flip through so they see all the hard work that went into the car.  If he didn't want the report read, then he shouldn't have left it where people can view it themselves.   

[Ghoste]

I still find it fishy that the door sticker was aged and purported to be original when ECS has stated they made the sticker.

[resq302]

Curtis,

I completely agree.  The only reason to do something like that to it is to change the original VIN on it to match the dash tag or to try and pass it off as being original which is what this current owner is doing also.  Its been proven a FACT that the door sticker is NOT THE ORIGINAL so only adding to that is being deceiptful for assumed monetary gain or fame.

[TUFCAT]

As for the security, it was a guy sitting in a chair, who was presumably there to keep people from climbing in and out of the car. I probably would've done the same, given how some behave at car shows, licking over stuff that isn't theirs  :yes nod:  

Again, just my  

Nothing against you personally XS29, but his "security" wasn't sitting in a chair, he was standing by the car (whatever difference that makes I don't know).  For the record he also had a vest labeled SECURITY - that was brighter green than the sublime Charger.

Like I said before I never saw anything like this at Carlisle in the past.  Collectible Mopars of much higher value/importance have been displayed without security issues.

As for climbing in/around the car, the door was open whenever I saw it.  The interior was totally gutted, as was the engine compartment. The fender tag was also removed.  There was nothing for the owner to be worried about being stolen....except of course that binder I was reading.  ...that's a lot of security for a bunch of xeroxed pages.

   

[hemi-hampton]

I'd sure like to see what the original door decal said? XS29UOG possibly?


P.S. Seems odd his first post sez the only thing that seemed odd to him was the unpainted Vin tag. Guess he did not think the A/C was odd? Or playing dumb waiting for us to catch it?

[resq302]

Hemi-hampton,

I think the car has changed hands a few times since the initial post.

[A12 Superbee]

I still find it fishy that the door sticker was aged and purported to be original when ECS has stated they made the sticker.

I wonder how long before the current owner 'comes clean' and states he was duped but now, 'after much research', believes the car is a U code that was sold to him as a V code 1 of 1 and ECS are asked to print up a new door vin decal?

Or one has already been made and is being kept for that rainy day....

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

As for the security, it was a guy sitting in a chair, who was presumably there to keep people from climbing in and out of the car. I probably would've done the same, given how some behave at car shows, licking over stuff that isn't theirs  :yes nod:  

Again, just my  

Nothing against you personally XS29, but his "security" wasn't sitting in a chair, he was standing by the car (whatever difference that makes I don't know).  For the record he also had a vest labeled SECURITY - that was brighter green than sublime Charger.

Like I said before I never saw anything like this at Carlisle in the past.  Collectible Mopars of much higher value/importance have been displayed without security issues.

As for climbing in/around the car, the door was open whenever I saw it.  The interior was totally gutted, as was the engine compartment. The fender tag was also removed.  There was nothing for the owner to be worried about being stolen....except of course that binder I was reading.  ...that's a lot of security for a bunch of xeroxed pages.

   

No worries.  Security guy was sitting when I was there, but I guess he could've gotten up. Chair looked uncomfortable

Anyways, we talked more about car auctions and other stuff than his car. It was interesting to see the car though, for whatever it is 

[hemi-hampton]

Hemi-hampton,

I think the car has changed hands a few times since the initial post.

I know, I still think the first owner was playing dumb & used our expertise to help facilitate the scam as planed & it worked until ECS revealed the secret which was not part of the plane so it backfired on him

[bill440rt]

The security guard was sitting and/or standing when I saw him.
At one point when I was looking at the car, I was standing on the driver's side and the passenger side door was open. Some spectator guy took it upon himself to slam the door closed. 
The guard simply told him hands off the car. 

[TUFCAT]

I still think the first owner was playing dumb & used our expertise to help facilitate the scam as planed & it worked until ECS revealed the secret which was not part of the plane so it backfired on him

Actually, the first guy seemed genuine about asking for help. He admitted to be a Corvette guy who didn't know much about Mopars.  He came on here without bragging about the car, and subsequently may have been shocked/surprised after finding out exactly what the car was (...or wasn't) in this case.  

After most of the cold hard facts were revealed, he sold the car to the current owner and left the board.  Possibly he saw an opportunity to unload the car before getting "famous"?    

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

The security guard was sitting and/or standing when I saw him.
At one point when I was looking at the car, I was standing on the driver's side and the passenger side door was open. Some spectator guy took it upon himself to slam the door closed. 
The guard simply told him hands off the car. 

...and that's why the guard was there, because there are so many who cannot keep their hands to themselves. One guy you saw, but wonder how many cannot respect property which isn't their  regardless of the car

[hemi-hampton]

I still think the first owner was playing dumb & used our expertise to help facilitate the scam as planed & it worked until ECS revealed the secret which was not part of the plane so it backfired on him

Actually, the first guy seemed genuine about asking for help. He admitted to be a Corvette guy who didn't know much about Mopars.  He came on here without bragging about the car, and subsequently may have been shocked/surprised after finding out exactly what the car was (...or wasn't) in this case.  

After most of the cold hard facts were revealed, he sold the car to the current owner and left the board.  Possibly he saw an opportunity unload the car before getting "famous"?    

I don't buy any of that, Owner faked a 6 pack door tag in 2006  on a A/C car just so he could sell it to original poster in 2013 as nothing special & forgot to mention oh yeah, it's a only one known 6 pack A/C car & I want big bucks for it. He doesn't tell OP this? Then why have the tag made at all unless you want to squeeze the big bucks out of a 1of 1 rare 6 pack A/C car   Don't make sense. By playing dumb makes it easier to pull the scam off, it worked, for awhile. You guys fell for it. 

[resq302]

The security guard was sitting and/or standing when I saw him.
At one point when I was looking at the car, I was standing on the driver's side and the passenger side door was open. Some spectator guy took it upon himself to slam the door closed. 
The guard simply told him hands off the car. 

...and that's why the guard was there, because there are so many who cannot keep their hands to themselves. One guy you saw, but wonder how many cannot respect property which isn't their  regardless of the car

What the security guard did any one of a number of people who were parked around him would have told him the same thing.  This is also another reason why I have DO NOT TOUCH signs of different nature all over my car.

[472 R/T SE]

Having security there just perpetuates the sham.

[Troy]

I think I quoted the word "security" as when I was there it was 2 teenage girls in yellow shirts. We're not talking armed prison guards here. Again, no security whatsoever once they moved it off the show field...

Troy

[ECS]

By playing dumb makes it easier to pull the scam off, it worked, for awhile. You guys fell for it.

Once again, most are ignoring the injustice that caused many to have "fell for it".  Don't let the Tail wag the Dog as it relates to this topic.  A major Automotive Magazine gave this vehicle National coverage based on an EXPERT that certified it as being original.  Why is everyone focusing on "security guards" and a Corvette Guy who started this thread?  If it wasn't for an "EXPERT" giving credibility to a phony vehicle, this charade would have died off before it ever gained National recognition.

Is no one upset that the Classic Car Hobby is being scammed by the "EXPERTS" who profess to protect it?  Either the "EXPERT" is no "Expert" at all or they were paid off to assist in perpetuating this scam.  Those are the ONLY two logical choices that anyone can come up with regarding the involvement of the "EXPERT".  When the "Experts" charge People to document and certify their fake cars, our Industry is in trouble.  

[Benji]

Based on what I am reading here on this thread it is obvious that an expert is NEVER allowed to make a mistake. He must be absolutely perfect 100% of the time in all of his appraisals with every vehicle that he looks at and he must do it EVERY time.  There is no room for mistakes.  Even when all of the information that is presented to him to make that appraisal is 100% correct as far as he can tell he will still be held accountable if years later additional evidence is presented that his appraisal was flawed based on that flawed evidence.  It is so comforting to know that all of the arm chair quarterbacks here on Dodgecharger.com are perfect in all their ways 100% of the time.

Benji

[ECS]

Based on what I am reading here on this thread it is obvious that an expert is NEVER allowed to make a mistake. He must be absolutely perfect 100% of the time......

You are 100% correct with your statement and observation.  When someone takes the responsibility and provides a service of documenting whether a vehicle is real or fake, they had better KNOW what they are doing.  That is the responsibility one assumes on they take on the role of being a paid professional "EXPERT" versus an "arm chair quarterback".  When these so called "EXPERTS" cannot tell the difference between NUMEROUS faked variables on ONE vehicle, they don't know what they are doing or they are part of the fraud.

[TUFCAT]

Once again, most are ignoring the injustice that caused many to have "fell for it".  Don't let the Tail wag the Dog as it relates to this topic.  A major Automotive Magazine gave this vehicle National coverage based on an EXPERT that certified it as being original.  Why is everyone focusing on "security guards" and a Corvette Guy who started this thread?  If it wasn't for an "EXPERT" giving credibility to a phony vehicle, this charade would have died off before it ever gained National recognition.

Is no one upset that the Classic Car Hobby is being scammed by the "EXPERTS" who profess to protect it?  Either the "EXPERT" is no "Expert" at all or they were paid off to assist in perpetuating this scam.  Those are the ONLY two logical choices that anyone can come up with regarding the involvement of the "EXPERT".  When the "Experts" charge People to document and certify their fake cars, our Industry is in trouble.  

You are 100% correct with your statement and observation.  When someone takes the responsibility and provides a service of documenting whether a vehicle is real or fake, they had better KNOW what they are doing.  That is the responsibility one assumes on they take on the role of being a paid professional "EXPERT" versus an "arm chair quarterback".  When these so called "EXPERTS" cannot tell the difference between NUMEROUS faked variables on ONE vehicle, they don't know what they are doing or they are part of the fraud.

Newsflash! ...ECS get's it wrong. Again.    He so badly wants to be the world's largest Mopar "expert" that he will question anyone else's authority who validates a vehicle....by stating the "classic car hobby is being scammed by experts"  

Let's be honest. This isn't really about what the report says, (...or doesn't say) its primarily about discrediting David Wise from ICCA.  That could be the reason ECS came on here to state he made the door jamb MDH/Vin sticker to this car. To my knowledge ECS has never seen David Wise's report, (or the car for that matter) and only knows what he reads on the internet and in magazines.  

Until ECS can get his hands on the report he can't claim to know what it says!  I actually looked at the report (carefully and quickly I might add) at Carlisle and didn't see where David Wise called out anything as being factory authentic on this car - trust me I was looking!  He was very careful not to make claims without proof.  In fact, his summary had word like "appears", "does not appear", "may not have been", "could not determine", and "could not be validated as"

Lot's of people want to be the "expert" after the fact.  People in that category should have paid the money for a trip to Carlisle to validate the car themselves,  or better yet become buddies with Randy Koeppel the owner.  Heck, why not even call Koeppel from Desert Auto Sport and "ASK REALLY NICE" for a copy of Wise's actual report??  I doubt he'll let it out to the public - but if people really want to know what it says, that's probably the only way.  

[Homerr]

Regarding the report, which is unpublished, this all seems like nothing more than the owner saying something equal to 20 years ago "Galen looked at my car!"  *smoke&mirrors* *inferences*  "My car is a Big Deal 1 of None!"

Tufcat, your input is very interesting - but hearsay in lieu of the actual report.

Seems like David Wise should issue a statement or pressure the owner to release the report if he wants to save his reputation over this car.

ECS is here defending having made the tag and bringing this to light, but it also would be nice to have had him work with David Wise up front to resolve this behind the scenes instead of making a show out of it all.  Maybe that was tried and met with resistance, I don't know.

[ECS]

Newsflash! ...ECS get's it wrong. Again.

Of course I'm "wrong" again!  Keep in mind that this "fraud" was not exposed until my "wrong" input allowed clueless people (like you) to discuss the ordeal.

[TUFCAT]

Of course I'm "wrong" again!  Keep in mind that this "fraud" was not exposed until my "wrong" input allowed clueless people (like you) to discuss the ordeal.

Okay Dave, the stage is yours.   Since you're the only expert you believe in, please give us your expert validation on whether this car is legitimate or not.   Remember I'm clueless so please provide as many details as possible.

[resq302]

 I actually looked at the report (carefully and quickly I might add) at Carlisle....

I have never seen the two of those go hand in hand and have seen good results.  Either you carefully scrutinize something which takes time, or your quickly look at it and details get missed.  This is why investigations typically take so long.