Questions about my VIN tag.

[68X426]

 


This thread may now last for 5 years.

[polywideblock]

  
                        any updates

[6bblgt]

The date is 2/70 Sorry for the blurry picture. I will get a better one.



Eric

Hi Eric!  I saw an article in MCG about this car and wanted to let you know that this VIN decal is not original to the car.  I made it on December 17, 2006.  I still have the original artwork if you would like to see it.  We keep very strict records for every VIN decal that we manufacture.

With such a high quality photo  did you make that decal or a replacement for it?

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

The date is 2/70 Sorry for the blurry picture. I will get a better one.



Eric

Hi Eric!  I saw an article in MCG about this car and wanted to let you know that this VIN decal is not original to the car.  I made it on December 17, 2006.  I still have the original artwork if you would like to see it.  We keep very strict records for every VIN decal that we manufacture.

Dave you are saying you made a copy of the original V code decal or this is a fabrication of a V code VIN?

[bill440rt]

...and if it is a fabrication V-code decal then what about the dash VIN?

[ECS]

Dave you are saying you made a copy of the original V code decal or this is a fabrication of a V code VIN?

The VIN in the picture that Eric posted is my reproduction.  It is NOT the original decal that came with the car.  As soon as I saw the picture in MCG (which is much clearer) I knew my work.  Notice the clear border.  It is a consistent 3.5 mm all the way around the black artwork.  An original would never have illustrated a "perfectly cut" border like the default units that I manufacture.  We can make the border uneven but the customer has to request that it be "crooked" if they want it that way.  Also notice the tear in the decal.  The original tamper resistant material does not remove in that fashion.  My reproductions will "chunk" and rip just like the one in the picture if someone tries to tear it that way.  When I checked my data base, I found where I had made that decal on December 17, 2006 @ 1:27am.  I keep records of every decal made and can tell you (to the minute) when it was reproduced. 

I am 100% positive that someone used my reproduction VIN decal and "doctored" it to make it look like it was the original one that came on the car.  You have to ask yourself why someone would do that if everything was on the level.  The pictures for the MCG article were taken about 6 or 7 months ago.  I talked to Rob Wolf a couple of days ago and he told me that he took the pictures for the article.  My reproduction decal is the one that was on the car and presented as being the original unit when that article was written. 

[bill440rt]

But the million dollar question, IS IT A FABRICATED VIN OR WAS IT COPIED FROM THE ORIGINAL DOOR VIN STICKER??       

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Dave you are saying you made a copy of the original V code decal or this is a fabrication of a V code VIN?

The VIN in the picture that Eric posted is my reproduction.  It is NOT the original decal that came with the car.  As soon as I saw the picture in MCG (which is much clearer) I knew my work.  Notice the clear border.  It is a consistent 3.5 mm all the way around the black artwork.  An original would never have illustrated a "perfectly cut" border like the default units that I manufacture.  We can make the border uneven but the customer has to request that it be "crooked" if they want it that way.  Also notice the tear in the decal.  The original tamper resistant material does not remove in that fashion.  My reproductions will "chunk" and rip just like the one in the picture if someone tries to tear it that way.  When I checked my data base, I found where I had made that decal on December 17, 2006 @ 1:27am.  I keep records of every decal made and can tell you (to the minute) when it was reproduced.  

I am 100% positive that someone used my reproduction VIN decal and "doctored" it to make it look like it was the original one that came on the car.  You have to ask yourself why someone would do that if everything was on the level.  The pictures for the MCG article were taken about 6 or 7 months ago.  I talked to Rob Wolf a couple of days ago and he told me that he took the pictures for the article.  My reproduction decal is the one that was on the car and presented as being the original unit when that article was written.  

But the million dollar question, IS IT A FABRICATED VIN OR WAS IT COPIED FROM THE ORIGINAL DOOR VIN STICKER??       

Thats my question as well???

[ECS]

IS IT A FABRICATED VIN OR WAS IT COPIED FROM THE ORIGINAL DOOR VIN STICKER??       

The VIN in the picture is a my reproduction that has been "doctored" to make it look like it was the original one that came on the car.  I would have to go back in my records to see what documentation was provided when we made it.  A copy of a legitimate title, a picture of a data tag, etc......can be used for documentation when we make these decals.  Those are the requirements that Chrysler has us comply with in order to manufacture these items. 

[70 sublime]

IS IT A FABRICATED VIN OR WAS IT COPIED FROM THE ORIGINAL DOOR VIN STICKER??        

The VIN in the picture is a my reproduction that has been "doctored" to make it look like it was the original one that came on the car.  I would have to go back in my records to see what documentation was provided when we made it.  A copy of a legitimate title, a picture of a data tag, etc......can be used for documentation when we make these decals.  Those are the requirements that Chrysler has us comply with in order to manufacture these items.  

So without looking it up you can not honestly say that that is a real number on the door sticker that you made ??
So does that mean that there have been some "special ones " made by you before ??

[ECS]

So without looking it up you can not honestly say that that is a real number on the door sticker that you made ??
So does that mean that there have been some "special ones " made by you before ??

We work with a network of DOT Divisions that are involved with the overall process.  Each Division has a mandated system that they follow to comply with DMV Law.  We are not a "Police Department" that is responsible for those other Divisions.  If someone is able to obtain a "legal" document to a fraudulent vehicle, we have no way of proving it.  A few years ago we made a VIN label for a 1970 Hemicuda.  The Customer provided a legitimate Title as documentation for the car.  We later found out that a DMV Branch in Alabama had issued a "real" Title for the "fake" car.  We had no way of knowing it was not a legitimate Title because the DMV was also fooled into believing it was a real car.  The Title Company allowed that ordeal to escalate into the problem it ultimately became.  The process for issuing VIN related items are only as strong as the weakest link.  We are only responsible for our checks & balances as it relates to the equation and we comply to the best of our ability.  

 

[ECS]

So without looking it up you can not honestly say that that is a real number on the door sticker that you made ??

I just stopped by my office to look at the information on the decal that I made.  It was made Wednesday-December 27, 2006 @ 1:27AM for a person named David Lindsey.  Below is what the MCG article said about the Fender Tag and VIN Decal.  It appears they need to consult better "experts" as to what is real. 

"David Wise has looked at it himself and agrees, this is a factory legitimate fender tag and it absolutely belongs to the car-the fender tag is not a re-stamp, it's not altered, and it's not counterfeit.  That fender tag is 100% just the same today as it was in 1970 except that the paint's been stripped off of it to get rid of rust and corrosion problems.  The door VIN decal also bears the same serial number as the fender tag, and once more, it's passed the extreme examination test and everyone agrees it's the car's original decal."

[polywideblock]

so did the paper work also indicate what authentication was used as proof for  you to make it  , title , copy of fender tag ,build sheet etc  ?

[HANDM]

Time for another round of



These newly disclosed details make it look not so good for the op......

[TUFCAT]

I just stopped by my office to look at the information on the decal that I made.  It was made Wednesday-December 27, 2006 @ 1:27AM for a person named David Lindsey.  Below is what the MCG article said about the Fender Tag and VIN Decal.  It appears they need to consult better "experts" as to what is real.  

"David Wise has looked at it himself and agrees, this is a factory legitimate fender tag and it absolutely belongs to the car-the fender tag is not a re-stamp, it's not altered, and it's not counterfeit.  That fender tag is 100% just the same today as it was in 1970 except that the paint's been stripped off of it to get rid of rust and corrosion problems.  The door VIN decal also bears the same serial number as the fender tag, and once more, it's passed the extreme examination test and everyone agrees it's the car's original decal."

why does someone buy a replacement door VIN decal for an unrestored car, especially If the sunburned dash plate VIN is legitimate (which it appears to be)?    

[68X426]

David Lindsey just got kicked under the proverbial bus.

Why go public with a customer's name?  So much for confidentiality in business.

[cdr]

David Lindsey just got kicked under the proverbial bus.

Why go public with a customer's name?  So much for confidentiality in business.

the truth hurts!!!if fraud was committed  if no fraud ,no big deal  just sayin

[dyslexic teddybear]

David Lindsey just got kicked under the proverbial bus.

Why go public with a customer's name?  So much for confidentiality in business.

the truth hurts!!!if fraud was committed  if no fraud ,no big deal  just sayin

If you do something......either way, you should own it.

[bill440rt]

According to this newfound information, from what is stated...
I understand completely that the VIN decal on the door is your (ECS) reproduction, that has been artificially "aged". Did you see the original door VIN sticker, or was it made from some other information provided by the owner? 

[6bblgt]

Did the OP have the name "David Lindsey" in his history & research on the car's past?

[ECS]

I understand completely that the VIN decal on the door is your (ECS) reproduction, that has been artificially "aged". Did you see the original door VIN sticker, or was it made from some other information provided by the owner?  

A picture of the original VIN decal was NOT used for the verification.  The documentation was turned into Chrysler in January of 2007.  If a "Customer" intends to use our products or services to try and fraud the Industry, I will make the actual facts public when apprised of the situation.  The story was publicized in a National Magazine and our Reproduction Decal was portrayed as an "original" in an attempt to legitimize a vehicle in question.  My Company and reputation is "kicked under the bus" when these type of antics takes place.  

[cdr]

ECS IS CORRECT 

[TUFCAT]

Since the door VIN decal is not original to the car, could it be possible the same person, Mr. Lindsey had a fake fender tag made duplicating the original, but substituting "E87" in place of the E86?

With the "aged" reproduction door VIN tag in place,  a new fake reproduction fender tag could have been easily "aged" to look original.  With everything matching, is it possible a previous owners intent was to pass the car off as a legitimate looking FAKE factory mistake car - so well done that it could fool even the experts?

Maybe.  Who knows?  

[polywideblock]

I understand completely that the VIN decal on the door is your (ECS) reproduction, that has been artificially "aged". Did you see the original door VIN sticker, or was it made from some other information provided by the owner?  

A picture of the original VIN decal was NOT used for the verification.  The documentation was turned into Chrysler in January of 2007.  If a "Customer" intends to use our products or services to try and fraud the Industry, I will make the actual facts public when apprised of the situation.  The story was publicized in a National Magazine and our Reproduction Decal was portrayed as an "original" in an attempt to legitimize a vehicle in question.  My Company and reputation is "kicked under the bus" when these type of antics takes place.  

so what documentation was used to authenticate and approve this vin sticker  

[bill440rt]

I understand completely that the VIN decal on the door is your (ECS) reproduction, that has been artificially "aged". Did you see the original door VIN sticker, or was it made from some other information provided by the owner?  

A picture of the original VIN decal was NOT used for the verification.  The documentation was turned into Chrysler in January of 2007.  If a "Customer" intends to use our products or services to try and fraud the Industry, I will make the actual facts public when apprised of the situation.  The story was publicized in a National Magazine and our Reproduction Decal was portrayed as an "original" in an attempt to legitimize a vehicle in question.  My Company and reputation is "kicked under the bus" when these type of antics takes place.  

Got it, thanks!  
Not questioning your integrity AT ALL, just curious & wanted clarification. Saw the article in the national magazine as well.