Questions about my VIN tag.

[JB400]

Nice collection  

[Tom Q]

Let's try to be open minded here.

The attached photo clearly shows factory cruise control on a six pak. All the hardware is 100% correct
Hmmm what color was that engine...look at the untouched condition of all that correct hardware...

Cruise control requires a "lost motion link" - LML -that link connects the throttle to the cruise cable.
It attached to a hole in the throttle linkage...in the proper geometric location
While all 4bbl cars have the hole for the LML. six paks never did...however this six pak with cruise looks as factory as you can get....

As for AC and a six pak-There are at least other 2 examples of a six pak with factory a/c
One is a red challenger convert -used to belong to a former collector Brian Thomas
The other is an exec built challenger
I have the ft info and more on the Challenger, and saw the red convert myself.
Blueprints to put the notch required in the air cleaner have not been discovered yet, but could exist.

That looks like a small block. Is that a pic of your old AAR? You added that on you AAR.

This is a perfect example of why these threads become a train wreck...I find comments like this to be less than productive to an intelligent conversation. Yes i added cruise to an ORANGE engine and not did not drill the " factory" hole in the linkage. I will let all you experts figure out how i made it work and still go 130 mph...

The picture i posted is not from my old pos with cruise...regardless of what size engine it is it is still cruise control properly attached to a six pack factory style with what looks  like orig factory correct untouched hardware.  Six pack ctr carbs do not come with the hole for the lost motion link, this one did...

I already stated that there is at least 2 cars out there somewhere with a/c and a six pak...this is not hearsay.  I have documentation on the challenger six pak with a/c and saw the red convert myself. Gee this might be another, so far looks like it's real...like i said...be open minded...

[maxwellwedge]

OK

First off...

I posted only to clarify to the other readers that this was not a factory pic. I did not want any confusion over your post and picture. If it came across as derogatory - it was not meant to...If it came across that way - I apologize. I have never "dissed" anyone on here...it was just a clarification that this was not a "factory built" installation pic. Parts like the solenoid, adjusting screw etc. are not correct for that year anyway.

Your PM ....not sure what to think about that. All of my posts over the years have always served to help others and give something back to the hobby....or to have a chuckle with many of the fine people I have met on this board.

At the end of the day - it is only a car.

I mentioned to the OP - many pages before this one, that I truly wish that the 2 options are legit....that would be super cool. Without a broadcast sheet it would be near impossible to verify. This car or any other car.

[Syreal_70]

Thanks Tom & Max, Its good to hear that some 6pack cars were made with A/C and Cruise. I appreciate your comment. I guess I contibuted to the trainwreck and got off topic. I hope that there is some way to clear the mystery about this car. I have now traced the ownership back to probably the early 80's and may have some more info soon. The hunt has always been why I get into these types of projects.

Eric

[472 R/T SE]

Jim didn't do anything wrong.  I'm glad he called it like he seen it.  You sure weren't gonna tell anyone.  I have a feeling you're just pissed he called you out on it.  

Jim is good people & an asset to this forum.  You probably would have known that but you look to be new around here.

[Ghoste]

Tom isn't new.  We are all getting passionate here and there isn't anything wrong with it as long as we don't let it get personal.  Often hard to do though when passion is involved.  And it is the hunt Eric. 

[472 R/T SE]

I know.  I checked his registration date.  Sarcastic if you will.

I can't say I know him but I do know as well as you Ghoste that Jim's not the type to deserve getting shit for informing us about what's right/wrong.  I know I learned from it and would rather know what's correct vs. someone leading us to believe something else.

 

[Ghoste]

Ooops, sorry Mike.

[hemigeno]

Its good to hear that some 6pack cars were made with A/C and Cruise.

Myself, Jim and others on this board aren't convinced that those two options were factory-installed on a 6-pack.  I'll grant you that the Fender Tag looks quite legit and does call them out in combo with the 6-pack, but that in and of itself isn't proof it was actually built that way.  Barry W. has lots of "mistake" tags posted on the Hamtramck Historical website... whether yours is another example hasn't been proven one way or another.  So far what we know is:
> Awesome car with some very cool options called out 
> Had A/C for sure
> Cruise is almost certainly a factory set-up
> Is a 440 R/T
> Fender Tag & VIN calls for a 6-pack
> Nothing remains of the original induction system, carburetors, air cleaner, A/C bracketry or Cruise linkage
> Car doesn't appear to have been monkeyed with or re-bodied

Hopefully your historical search connects you with some past owners or other connections who remember the car back in its better days - and hopefully some evidence of its original configuration still exists.

The hunt has always been why I get into these types of projects.

I've also enjoyed that part of my projects as much or more than anything... 

Eric, I understand why you've held off stating who's going to look at the car for you.  Personally though, on a car of this nature and potential significance, I would not put all my eggs in one basket.  While you have the opportunity to do so, have several folks look at the car.  It is highly unlikely that any one person can pick up on or notice everything.  Some are better than others at doing so, of course...  and several of them may not charge anything for doing so either - simply because opportunities like this don't come around every day.


TomQ - you've mentioned that you have the B-sheet for at least one of the 2 cars reportedly with A/C and 6-pack... would it be possible to scan and post that here since it's germane to the discussion on Eric's car?     And FWIW, I didn't see anything at all derogatory in Jim's posts - certainly nothing gravitating to train wreck status as mentioned.

[Syreal_70]

Gene,

I have never been satisfied with any one opinion or fact. The car will need a lot of supporting information whether its a typo or the real deal. The dialog on the forum has been very helpful, and as stated many times greatly appreciated. The good news is the paper trail has not grown cold and I have reason to believe, hersay from Prev Owner that it was owned for decades by one person, that to me is good news. 

I want the car to be special, but as my friend told me just yesterday "Its a V Code Sublime RT Charger! It already is!" (he came this short of calling me an Ass! LOL)  Eric

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

Hopefully your historical search connects you with some past owners or other connections who remember the car back in its better days - and hopefully some evidence of its original configuration still exists.

Agreed, a very cool car!  Hopefully someone out there will have concrete proof of the car when it was complete 

I really dig stories like these, and the anomalies which could have been

[hemigeno]

Eric,

I sincerely hope you're able to make connections with whomever can connect the dots.  Hopefully that long-term (or even the original) owner was as stoked about the car as you are, and kept a file drawer full of information.  It'd be a great ending to your quest.  If you're ever inclined to have someone else look at the car, I'll be happy to provide some names (NOT me, incidentally).  

We're all keen to see the car documented as well as it can be, and we'll also hound you incessantly for progress photos as it's brought back to life... you've been warned  

Gene

[472 R/T SE]

Syreal_70, you have 2 guys' in this thread alone that would help to legitimize, start a paperwork trail, Ghoste & I could do it for free.      


Seriously, Jim & Geno would get you well on your way & are probably more respected than a lot of others'.  You'd be surprised, there's several others here on the forum that could help & probably know just as much as whoever you're bringing in.   You know that though.   


Wasn't there a guy down in Arizona that was big into Mopars or maybe he just collected them.  He has a place up around the Great Lakes area too.  I thought he bought Bill Weideman's (sp?) place.

[69CoronetRT]

Its good to hear that some 6pack cars were made with A/C and Cruise.

Myself, Jim and others on this board aren't convinced that those two options were factory-installed on a 6-pack.  I'll grant you that the Fender Tag looks quite legit and does call them out in combo with the 6-pack, but that in and of itself isn't proof it was actually built that way.  Barry W. has lots of "mistake" tags posted on the Hamtramck Historical website... whether yours is another example hasn't been proven one way or another.  So far what we know is:
> Awesome car with some very cool options called out 
> Had A/C for sure
> Cruise is almost certainly a factory set-up
> Is a 440 R/T
> Fender Tag & VIN calls for a 6-pack
> Nothing remains of the original induction system, carburetors, air cleaner, A/C bracketry or Cruise linkage
> Car doesn't appear to have been monkeyed with or re-bodied

....
TomQ - you've mentioned that you have the B-sheet for at least one of the 2 cars reportedly with A/C and 6-pack... would it be possible to scan and post that here since it's germane to the discussion on Eric's car?     And FWIW, I didn't see anything at all derogatory in Jim's posts - certainly nothing gravitating to train wreck status as mentioned.

Geno's credibility stands on its own merit. Not that he needs it from anyone but I agree with his assessment. All anyone here has seen is the pictures provided, not the actual car, VIN or tag.

I too would like to see the BS on the 6bbl A/C car to see what the engine assembly number is. One would think that it would not follow normal conventions and, IIRC, the B and E body assembly numbers were the same for 1970.

To all that think some of us are TOO skeptical, read this thread and see how a similar situation turned out: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=96173.0
Bogus cars turn up all the time and buyers get burned.

[Syreal_70]

Thanks, It would take a big hit for me to get burned (like its really a Dodge Omni!), and I certainly won't burn the next guy (afterall we don't live forever)

I appreciate the knowledge here on the site. As the new kid on the block I obviously don't know everyones credentials and those who 'know' rarely say "don't you know who I am". So knowing that you "know of what you speak" is comforting.

I hope to be as open as possible about this car. Over the years I have learned a lot about forum etiquette in the NCRS world, Corvette Forum etc. I hope to not offend but be forwarned sometimes I do fall off the edge of the earth for awhile.

That being said, I have the privilege of owning 2 1989 Corvette ZR-1s. Cars that also were once said to not exist (google 1989 ZR-1 and chances are you will find me and the cars) They stirred up the various boards quite a bit.

If anyone would like to ask ?? off the board just email me ejackson""at""cablemo""dot""com

Eric

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

That being said, I have the privilege of owning 2 1989 Corvette ZR-1s. Cars that also were once said to not exist (google 1989 ZR-1 and chances are you will find me and the cars) They stirred up the various boards quite a bit. 

Eric

Eric,

Everyone knows the 1989 ZR-1 exists, and more than a few... Well, except for the ones crushed/destroyed. There are even a few 1988 ZR-1s and some even earlier than that, like the yellow 1986 LT5 car

[Ghoste]

Great points Eric.  (as an aside Jim and Gene are both well regarded in Mopar collecting circles)

[Syreal_70]

UPDATE... Ok last week I had the car looked at by David Wise. He was in town to look at a few other Mopars. He is of the opinion that It is definitely a A/C car, It is definitely a cruise car, and all of the V Code identifiers are correct and legitimate. Although the drivetrain is missing there is nothing there to indicate the car was fabricated or changed. I am still waiting on the official report for the actual final conclusion. He was very excited to see the car. Apparently he had heard about the car before. We spent a few hours going over every aspect of the car.

Now some of you may still doubt that it ever existed but it does exist with the codes and trim tags it was born with.

Now that I have that information and documentation we have begun the restoration.  I will try and drop back in with updates as we go so stay tuned...

Thanks to all who have added to the discussion. It has been educational..

Eric

[JB400]

Thanks for the update and I for one, am looking forward to future updates

Popcorn's ready   

[1974dodgecharger]

man I would love to stop by and take some pics of the car could I do that? Im in phoenix also 

Ill bring my older charger by the 68.

[polywideblock]

thanks for the update    its cool that these cars are still out there 

[charger Downunder]

Good news, 

[472 R/T SE]

Right on.  Good choice in Wise.  Anxious to see his report.
Didn't someone mention his name earlier in this thread?

[ECS]

The date is 2/70 Sorry for the blurry picture. I will get a better one.



Eric

Hi Eric!  I saw an article in MCG about this car and wanted to let you know that this VIN decal is not original to the car.  I made it on December 17, 2006.  I still have the original artwork if you would like to see it.  We keep very strict records for every VIN decal that we manufacture.

[HANDM]

Shit, I'm gonna throw the popcorn too.......



Interesting to say the least!