A question before I destroy my tranny.

[cpthowdy1369]

Hey guys,  I rebuilt my 727 with a video and a book for reference.  When I was replacing the clutch plates with new ones, I pulled 4 out but could only fit 3 back in.  I tried everything I could but the retaining spring would not go back on with all 4.  What's about to happen if I drive it like this?

[cudaken]

Hey guys,  I rebuilt my 727 with a video and a book for reference.  When I was replacing the clutch plates with new ones, I pulled 4 out but could only fit 3 back in.  I tried everything I could but the retaining spring would not go back on with all 4.  What's about to happen if I drive it like this?

What do you think? Back up and regroup, something is not right! I think there is a 3 clutch can, 4 clutch can and 5 can for the Hemi 727. Maybe you got the wrong kit? 

Cuda Ken

[cpthowdy1369]

All of the parts came in one box with the correct labels.

[flyinlow]

Might slip.

They do make different thicknesses of snap rings.

Might be good to go back and recheck thickness and clearances. 

[A383Wing]

All of the parts came in one box with the correct labels.

that doesn't mean the correct parts are in the correct box....someone had to pack it up

fix it right before you put it back in....otherwise yer gonna be pulling it out again and will probably cost more next time

[ws23rt]

You mentioned replacing the clutch plates with new ones.  There are two clutches. (Front and Back) Did you do both?  If so maybe you got the snap rings mixed up.

The snap rings will work for both clutches but they come in four different thickness.

For the rear clutch the FSM calls for .025-.045 clearance and is measured while pressing firmly down on the outer plate.

For the front clutch you need to refer to the chart in the book to find your application.  It will be three four or five discs depending on the engine the trans is intended for.  Also there are a different number of piston springs for the applications.

As others have said now is the time to get it right 

[cpthowdy1369]

Well, damn it.  I was kinda hoping you guys would say something like: Don't worry, as long as the 3 plates take up the same space as the 4, you'll be ok.
But instead, it looks like I've got a little work ahead of me.  I thought it wasn't going to be right, I just needed to make sure.  Thanks guys.

[John_Kunkel]

What clutch are you referring to? Front or rear?

It's possible that the clutch piston isn't fully seated or that the replacement clutch discs are a different thickness than those you took out.

[cpthowdy1369]

It's the rear clutch pack.  With 4 new clutch plates, I couldn't get the wave ring back into the groove.

[RIDGERACER383]

Here's some videos that might help you http://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9B8913FE1625FD60

[ws23rt]

I see some confusion here.  The wave ring goes in before the clutches.

1. piston--2. piston spring (ring with internal fingers)--3. spacer ring --4.wave spring--5. pressure plate--

Next is clutch disc and plate pack. (four disc and three plates) than last pressure plate.

The snap ring is what comes in different thicknesses (last piece).  The clearance is measured between the snap ring and the pressure plate.

[cpthowdy1369]

Ok, so there is 4 grip (textured) disks and three smooth plates?  I'm pretty sure that's what I have in there.  Will the tranny just slip if I'm wrong or will something explode or come apart?

[ws23rt]

Ok, so there is 4 grip (textured) disks and three smooth plates?  I'm pretty sure that's what I have in there.  Will the tranny just slip if I'm wrong or will something explode or come apart?

You say you are pretty sure about what you have in there?  What's wrong with being positive.
The first thing you told us is you could not get the snap ring in.

Is it in now?   If so what is the clearance between the snap ring and the last plate?

It should be .025"-.o45"

You are asking a question though.  If you are wrong something most likely will happen that will make you unhappy.    

I for one am curious about what will happen.  I vote to put it together as is. Not knowing if it is right to see what happens
My guess is you wont die but you will spend more time and money to get whole again

[A383Wing]

....sorry, had to laugh at that one...

[cpthowdy1369]

Alright guys, I did this rebuild four years ago then life hit me and I had to put the car back together and put the whole project to the side.  I am now pulling it back out and mostly going off of memory until I get the whole project back out to see for sure (hopefully within the next week).  The ring that I could not get back in is the snap ring ( I just looked it up so I'm sure about this one).  I'm just going to try it and see what happens and if something does go wrong then I'll just take it all apart again and go from there. 

[ws23rt]

Alright guys, I did this rebuild four years ago then life hit me and I had to put the car back together and put the whole project to the side.  I am now pulling it back out and mostly going off of memory until I get the whole project back out to see for sure (hopefully within the next week).  The ring that I could not get back in is the snap ring ( I just looked it up so I'm sure about this one).  I'm just going to try it and see what happens and if something does go wrong then I'll just take it all apart again and go from there.  

It has been difficult to understand your situation because of missing important info.

So let me guess where you are now.  And you correct where I am wrong.

You put the transmission back together without the snap ring?  

You put the trans. back in the car?

You want to try it out to see if it will run ok?


If all of those things are true I would say don't bother trying to drive it.  Take the trans. out and fix it right.

As I have said before if you just want to see what happens--fine--I would like to know as well

But you will pay a price for that experiment.  It could be a lot.
And you will not be happy.   But the up side is many of us will know how much damage would come from this.--Good for us but not you.

I used to try to ruin engines and things for fun in my younger years there is fun to be had for sure

[cpthowdy1369]

Ha ha ha...close, but no.   The snap ring is installed,  I just dont think I put the corect number of smooth clutch plates in.  I believe I took out 4 but only 3 would fit back in.  But if what ws23rt says is correct, then I may have done it correctly.  I was just wondering if anybody knew what would happen if I ran it with 1 less smooth clutch plate.

[RIDGERACER383]

Check out the video URL I posted..19 videos on the rebuild of the 727.Very detailed too you might find where you messed up.

[Cooter]

Imo, light duty trans came through with tge 3 clutch drum. 440 hp stuff came through with the 4 clutch stuff and hemi with 5...
Not a big deal imo as I've modded the drum accept 5 clutches simply by Turning a small amount off the thick steel retainer in a simple brake lathe.
I rec. At least a 4 clutch unit for anything hp.

[cpthowdy1369]

Sorry guys. I wasn't trying to be confusing.   Thanks ridgeracer383. I've been watching the vids. I appreciate the link. I will definitely be using them in my reference library if this goes wrong.  Thanks for your help guys.

[John_Kunkel]

Any 727 later than the early PB units would have 4 rear clutch discs, running only 3 will result in a 25% reduction in gripping power.

If only three will fit there are several possibilities:

1) The wrong selective thickness snap is being used
2) The discs are too thick, they should be smooth and measure .065"
3) The steel floaters are too thick, they should measure .070"
4) The wrong pressure plate is installed. The pre '65 plate is thicker (bottom one in pic below).

[oldkimmer]

..........sounds like u have the wrong [front] clutches in the rear pack, post some pics of the front and rear clutches....kim.....

[cpthowdy1369]

Hey guys.  I finally got the beast out of hibernation and got it running smooth.  I jumped in to take it for a test drive and found out that I am not a natural transmission mechanic. 
When I shifted into reverse and hit the gas,  the charger went no where.  I then shifted to neutral and hit the gas (just to see what would happen)  and the car started going forward.
So I don't know what I did wrong but I think I will just have to take it to someone who knows what they're doing to get it fixed.