$20,000 General Lee

[Bandit72]

No bashing please guys. As alot of us here it has always been a huge dream of mine to own a general lee and as of late i've been doing alot of numbers crunching to see just how feesible it would be to try to obtain one and heres what i came up with. In the next year or so I will have a large chunk of my debt paid off and have a small "rainy day" fund started (considering no major unexpected expense comes up) Anyways long story short in the next year i'm really hoping to be able to spend around 20k on a Drivable General....is this even a realistic number? I mean i watch them sell consistantly for 30-40k. Keep in mind that the last thing i want is a 100 point trailer queen. I basically want a 20 footer that is mechanically sound. (i'm pretty well mechanically inclined but i'm at a point in my life where i'm tired of major projects...just want to enjoy it and tinker on it over a weekend or something. The main thing that i require of it is that it have a tan interior already in it...doesn't have to be show worthy...but nothing bothers me more than a really well done general lee replica with a green interior  Let me know your input guys, and like i say..no bashing...i don't want to hear about how stupid the dukes was or how ungy the car is....

[6spd68]

Throw a wanted add up online outlining your wants and see who replies.  That's how I found my Charger.    Odds are you'll get at least 7 different responses with different prices and conditions.

[Daytona R/T SE]

Cooter had his car up for sale recently...

His looks good to me.

I'm sure he'll chime in here pretty soon.

[MaximRecoil]

If it were me, I would buy a halfway decent 318 or 383 '69 Charger for whatever those sell for and do the conversion to a General Lee myself. You could probably do it for less than $20,000, especially if a "20 footer" is what you want. Nothing wrong with that; the real Warner Brothers General Lees were mostly "20 footers" too, or more specifically, 20 footers through fuzzy NTSC TV resolution. For example:



Those are the Veluzats quickly doing up a General Lee for Warner Brothers. They are spraying right over the original paint; no sanding or anything. A paint job like that wouldn't cost much. I don't have any screen shots right now, but there are lots of scenes on the show where you can see blotchy and/or dull paint on the General Lee, along with quick and dirty bodywork. Those things weren't noticeable in the '80s on NTSC broadcasts and standard resolution TVs, but you can see it on the DVDs quite well.

The graphics can be done very cheaply if you paint them on (the General Lee text on the roof would be the only hard part), or you can get premade graphics from places like Phoenix Graphics for a maybe a few hundred dollars.

The American Racing Vector wheels are currently in production, and selling new for about $150 each (they are slightly different than the originals from the '70s and '80s, i.e., there is no raised lip around the outer edge for accepting traditional wheel weights).

The push bumper is an easy job for any fabricator, or you can buy one from Smith Brothers, made by the guy who made the original wide ones, using his original welding jig, for $400 (they also make the earlier narrow style for $300).

The "rollbar" on the hero cars was just exhaust tubing; a main hoop plus a diagonal crossbar. Easy and dirt cheap.

I wouldn't worry at all about the factory color of the interior; Warner Bros certainly didn't. The early General Lees had various factory colors of interior, usually saddle tan, but not always. The later ones were all painted the same color, a very light tan or beige color, much lighter than factory saddle tan (SEM Light Buckskin #15093 will do the trick). They did this even to cars that already had a factory saddle tan interior. They also indiscriminately painted pretty much everything the same beige color, including the instrument cluster, metal dash top, and steering wheel.

[Dreamcar]

For the low 20s, I'd say you may find a small block driver, but it will need work. Getting one with a tan interior already in may be more difficult as you already limiting your options. My 10k dismantled charger was a non driveable but had tones of extra parts. I'll be in about 35k in total when done, and that's doing lots of labour myself. I'd say budgeting 25k would be safer. Plus, you may have to have it painted like the GL yourself.

[duanesterrr]

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/4068642388.html

Put it together and have your dream car! 

[tan top]

If it were me, I would buy a halfway decent 318 or 383 '69 Charger for whatever those sell for and do the conversion to a General Lee myself. You could probably do it for less than $20,000, especially if a "20 footer" is what you want. Nothing wrong with that; the real Warner Brothers General Lees were mostly "20 footers" too, or more specifically, 20 footers through fuzzy NTSC TV resolution. For example:



Those are the Veluzats quickly doing up a General Lee for Warner Brothers. They are spraying right over the original paint; no sanding or anything. A paint job like that wouldn't cost much. I don't have any screen shots right now, but there are lots of scenes on the show where you can see blotchy and/or dull paint on the General Lee, along with quick and dirty bodywork. Those things weren't noticeable in the '80s on NTSC broadcasts and standard resolution TVs, but you can see it on the DVDs quite well.

The graphics can be done very cheaply if you paint them on (the General Lee text on the roof would be the only hard part), or you can get premade graphics from places like Phoenix Graphics for a maybe a few hundred dollars.

The American Racing Vector wheels are currently in production, and selling new for about $150 each (they are slightly different than the originals from the '70s and '80s, i.e., there is no raised lip around the outer edge for accepting traditional wheel weights).

The push bumper is an easy job for any fabricator, or you can buy one from Smith Brothers, made by the guy who made the original wide ones, using his original welding jig, for $400 (they also make the earlier narrow style for $300).

The "rollbar" on the hero cars was just exhaust tubing; a main hoop plus a diagonal crossbar. Easy and dirt cheap.

I wouldn't worry at all about the factory color of the interior; Warner Bros certainly didn't. The early General Lees had various factory colors of interior, usually saddle tan, but not always. The later ones were all painted the same color, a very light tan or beige color, much lighter than factory saddle tan (SEM Light Buckskin #15093 will do the trick). They did this even to cars that already had a factory saddle tan interior. They also indiscriminately painted pretty much everything the same beige color, including the instrument cluster, metal dash top, and steering wheel.

 good picture      , not seen that picture for years , think that's a R/T  charger  

[chargerboy69]

This one on E-Bay is up over $20 grand already. . .  and she is a little rough. A quick paint job sprayed over. . what?  The interior needs a lot of work.  The engine compartment painted with the engine in is a big . . no. I would not give $20 for this car even if it is rock solid, which I am guessing it is not.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-COUPE-1969-s-matching-dodge-charger-general-lee-custom-interior-dukes-of-hazzard-/221291240802?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3385fc5d62&vxp=mtr

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

Not long ago, I picked-up a big block GL for much less of that budget, runs, drives, and looks really good from 10 ft away   It's a proper 1969, w/ tan interior, Vectors, etc.and looks VERY authentic to an "early" GA car. 

Be patient, they are out there...

[ws23rt]

The value and market for chargers seems to be by far the most talked about topic.

On other threads whether a car was born with a pedigree make a real difference for some and others could care less.

The general lee has come to be a part of that topic in that it is almost an option in itself like SE,RT etc.

Dodge established what the charger was and is. And is a beginning  place to refer to in order to answer questions about authenticity.

We all know that the original chargers were assembled with many glitches and those are part of the fun we have trying to find where our cars fall in history.

The questions about the correctness of a general lee is like asking how correct is a clone.

[bill440rt]

A buddy of mine had a built-to-order GL done for him, turn key to his specifications. 383-auto, etc. Built from some company from a shell, repaired using AMD parts. I honestly forget who the builder was.
He paid about $25K for it, and then sunk another $10K into it once he got it fixing stuff.

Looking for a GL?
Try here, you might have more luck:
www.cglfc.com

[MaximRecoil]

A clone is correct (i.e., a correct copy) by definition. If it is not a correct copy, then it is not a clone.

There are many ways to make a correct General Lee because there were hundreds of Warner Brothers General Lees, with no two exactly alike. There are an infinite number of ways to make an incorrect General Lee however.

Some people are obsessed with correctness, such as Bill Packett who made a clone of Wayne Wooten's Warner Brothers closeup General Lee, replicating things as trivial as overspray and date codes on hoses, much like the approach to a Galen Govier approved Hemi car restoration. But most people just want it to basically look right, which means at a minimum:

- 1969 Dodge Charger or a 1968 dressed up as a 1969

- Hemi Orange or Corvette Flame Red paintjob

- Vector wheels (American Racing or Shelby)

- Graphics that match one of the several variations on Warner Brothers General Lees

[Dino]

Don't forget the horn!

Another vote to buy a driver and paint it yourself.  A showroom shiny GL just does not look right to me anyway.  They're supposed to be a bit rough.  I'd probably dye the interior a nice shade of tan instead of using that horrible ultra light tan.  Or have it black.  Plenty GL's were black on the inside and although not correct, it certainly looks better than that light stuff. 

[Ghoste]

Agreed.

[Cooter]

Although my car was up for sale, it has black interior and none of what I refer to as stupid GL stuff on it.
Ie fake roll bars, antenna, CB...
It is a 20 footer, but will require some bodywork as it needs  dr side quarter.
Only $15k was asking though.
440 5 speed.

[Bandit72]

are you still thinking about selling it? If so when the time comes i might definitally look you up. I can live with a black interior until i could get it dyed i guess 

[6spd68]

are you still thinking about selling it? If so when the time comes i might definitally look you up. I can live with a black interior until i could get it dyed i guess 

Or sell it to someone like me looking for a Black interior and buy the tan replacements

[MaximRecoil]

Don't forget the horn!

Another vote to buy a driver and paint it yourself.  A showroom shiny GL just does not look right to me anyway.  They're supposed to be a bit rough.  I'd probably dye the interior a nice shade of tan instead of using that horrible ultra light tan.  Or have it black.  Plenty GL's were black on the inside and although not correct, it certainly looks better than that light stuff.  

The horn is a crowd pleaser, but it doesn't affect appearance of course. Most of the Warner Brothers General Lees didn't actually have one; it was just a sound effect dubbed in during post production. Also, the correct-sounding horn is very hard to find, and I'd rather have no horn than one that sounds way off, like all the ones currently on the market do. Incorrect sounding tunes/songs annoy me in general, like when the original singer of a popular song rerecords it some 30 years later to be released on some discount bargain bin CD commissioned by some studio too cheap to pay for the rights to the original recording. You look at the CD, see the singer's name, see that list of classic songs that you know and love, put the CD into the player, and then ... "What the hell is this??"

The correct horn was Jubilee/Jubilaire and there were two available "Dixie" discs for it; the correct one is "Disc 1" (the disc determines the timing of the individual horns, thus determining what tune the horns play). What would be ideal is if you could get a clean high quality copy of the sound effect they dubbed into the show's soundtrack so often. Then you could put it on some type of digital audio player and run it through an amplifier and a horn-loaded compression driver. That way you could make it pretty much as loud as you want, and it would sound exactly right every single time.

I wonder who has access to that original sound effect? It still existed as of 2000, because it was used in that (god-awful) second Dukes of Hazzard reunion movie ("Hazzard in Hollywood"). If it still existed in 2005, the makers of the (also god-awful) Seann William Scott, Johnny Knoxville, Jessica Simpson movie didn't know about it, because they commissioned some random guy they found on the internet to record the incorrect horn that he had in his General Lee replica, and it of course sounded way off.

Trying to rip it from one of the Dukes of Hazzard episodes on DVD is a lost cause I think, because it is always tainted with other sounds, such as the sound of the engine.

No Warner Brothers General Lee had a black interior that anyone knows of, though there were some that had a brown interior that looks black in some scenes on camera when in shadow. I agree that the light beige color that they painted all of the later General Lee interiors with was ugly. I think it was selected for lighting purposes. If I cared all that much about interior color on a General Lee (which I don't really; black, brown, or tan would all be fine by me), I would go with the factory saddle tan color (most common on early General Lees).

[Cooter]

are you still thinking about selling it? If so when the time comes i might definitally look you up. I can live with a black interior until i could get it dyed i guess 

Yes, but forgive me for saying this.....
I'm not dealing with anymore assholes who want to try and get my junk for peanuts. You come look at it, you bring $15k, we talk, hell who knows you talk right and you might be loading up my junk.
But have no illusions.....I will send your ass packing if you think "we'll he's asking $15k, that means he'll take $7k CASH"...you might as well not even show up.

[Bandit72]

lol fair enough. I looked up your original ad in the classifieds and saw you've already came down from 20 anyways. When the time comes i'll look ya up and maybe we can work out a deal 

[Mike DC]

The horn is a crowd pleaser, but it doesn't affect appearance of course. Most of the Warner Brothers General Lees didn't actually have one; it was just a sound effect dubbed in during post production. Also, the correct-sounding horn is very hard to find, and I'd rather have no horn than one that sounds way off, like all the ones currently on the market do. Incorrect sounding tunes/songs annoy me in general, like when the original singer of a popular song rerecords it some 30 years later to be released on some discount bargain bin CD commissioned by some studio too cheap to pay for the rights to the original recording. You look at the CD, see the singer's name, see that list of classic songs that you know and love, put the CD into the player, and then ... "What the hell is this??"

Show people half a dozen different sounds from existing mechanical horns, and you won't get a consensus on which one is best.  It's like asking what is the best orange paint shade or the best tire size.  Everyone can agree that certain ones are wrong but they won't agree on which is most right.  People like the TV sound clip but that's not achievable with mechanical horns.  

I agree that the light beige color that they painted all of the later General Lee interiors with was ugly. I think it was selected for lighting purposes

The difference between the earlier brown shade and the lighter beige shade does not look as dramatic in person as it does on film or in the paint chip books.  The 35mm film seemed to darken the brown and lighten the beige.  They chose the beige color out of a paint book and it came out lighter than expected but they just went with it.  Lighter interiors are easier to shoot actors inside anyway.   It worked for their purposes.    

[MaximRecoil]

Show people half a dozen different sounds from existing mechanical horns, and you won't get a consensus on which one is best.  It's like asking what is the best orange paint shade or the best tire size.  Everyone can agree that certain ones are wrong but they won't agree on which is most right.  People like the TV sound clip but that's not achievable with mechanical horns.

The TV sound clip was recorded from a real "Dixie horn", so it is achievable. This guy has the right set of horns and disc - http://youtu.be/k1WQW5vMIpA. And here is the same guy with the same set of horns but with "Disc 2" instead of "Disc 1" - http://youtu.be/NmJvcWbPn-0. The tempo is off (too slow), and the relative duration of each note is off as well (so simply speeding the whole thing up wouldn't fix it). And horns that aren't even from the right company (i.e., all of them being manufactured today) are always way off.

[Cooter]

You know how many people have told me my car is incorrect??

I can count them on one hand...however, you got sny idea how many think its a real one from the show???

The national debt number comes closest....

[69wannabe]

My charger was a general for 12 of the 14 years that I have owned it. I never heard much about the black interior being incorrect which of course I would have loved to had the saddle interior but it was a factory black interior car and the interior was in good condition when I got the car and I didn't have the funds to replace every part of the interior with the saddle parts and back then all the interior pieces that are available now wasn't 6 or 7 years ago. Most people would see the pistol grip and notice it was a 4-speed and that was the comments I got about the car. "440 4 speed love the car!!" was most of the responses I got and I enjoyed the uniform and the general is still the reason I have a charger and is one of my favorite cars ever!! Its still orange but with a black R/T stripe and chrome magnum 500's on it now. Still fun as hell to drive too!!

[Brock Lee]

Show people half a dozen different sounds from existing mechanical horns, and you won't get a consensus on which one is best.  It's like asking what is the best orange paint shade or the best tire size.  Everyone can agree that certain ones are wrong but they won't agree on which is most right.  People like the TV sound clip but that's not achievable with mechanical horns.

The TV sound clip was recorded from a real "Dixie horn", so it is achievable. This guy has the right set of horns and disc - http://youtu.be/k1WQW5vMIpA. And here is the same guy with the same set of horns but with "Disc 2" instead of "Disc 1" - http://youtu.be/NmJvcWbPn-0. The tempo is off (too slow), and the relative duration of each note is off as well (so simply speeding the whole thing up wouldn't fix it). And horns that aren't even from the right company (i.e., all of them being manufactured today) are always way off.

The earliest sound clip was a real horn. For much of the show it was actually a clip made of a guy playing the notes on a trumpet. That was confirmed at least 8 years ago.

[MaximRecoil]

The earliest sound clip was a real horn. For much of the show it was actually a clip made of a guy playing the notes on a trumpet. That was confirmed at least 8 years ago.

Confirmed by who? If it was made by a guy playing the notes on a trumpet, then he managed to make it sound like a Jubilee/Jubilaire Dixie horn with disc #1.

Here is a comparison sound clip - http://tinypic.com/r/20a42nk/5

The first horn recording that plays in that clip is ripped directly from a Dukes of Hazzard DVD, specifically from "Pin the Tail on the Dukes"  (Season 4, Episode 17). It is the sound clip that they had long since settled on as the standard one by that point, and the one they continued to use for the rest of the series (and the one that was used in the reunion movies).

The second horn recording that plays in that clip is the Jubilee/Jubilaire Dixie horn, Disc 1, ripped from the YouTube video I linked to earlier (http://youtu.be/k1WQW5vMIpA).

Yes, there are inevitable slight differences due to differences in recording equipment and settings, accoustics in the place of recording, different types and levels of digital compression of the recording, and the fact that sounding that set of horns off is an electromechanical and analog process, powered by voltage that can vary from car to car, along with the inevitable slight manufacturing differences from horn set to horn set. However, it still sounds like the same horn playing the same tune at the same tempo with the same relative duration of each note. So if some guy did that on a trumpet (assuming a large brass trumpet can even reproduce the tonal quality of a set of small metal and plastic Jubilee/Jubilaire air horns in the first place), then he did a hell of a good job.

If it can be done on a trumpet then that would be great, because if you could find a trumpeter that could do it properly, you could make a very high quality recording without having to find the rare and expensive Jubilee/Jubilaire air horns along with "disc 1", and you wouldn't have to worry about the sound of the air compressor tainting it (as happened in the YouTube video).

[Mike DC]

I still think you won't get half a dozen people to all agree on what the best sound is.  Not when choosing between several horn setups installed and running in GL replicas.  Some people think it should be playing through the notes faster than others.  Some think the notes should be a bit higher pitched than others.


Yeah we could probably all agree on a good sound when comparing it to an audio clip in the series. 

But as anyone in the GL hobby knows - the way something actually was onscreen in the TV show is not always the way people want it to be, or the way they remember it being.  Even DOH fans.   

[MaximRecoil]

But as anyone in the GL hobby knows - the way something actually was onscreen in the TV show is not always the way people want it to be, or the way they remember it being.  Even DOH fans.

No doubt about that. I mean, everyone knows that the General Lee didn't have door handles, right?

Brock Lee's post has got me curious about the possibility of the standard TV sound clip having been played on a trumpet. I'm going to see if I can find some trumpet players to ask about it. For quite some time I've wanted a clean high quality recording of that tune that sounds like the standard TV clip, and if it can be done on a trumpet, that would be excellent. There are far more people out there that can play a trumpet than there are people that own a Jubilee/Jubilaire Dixie horn complete with "disk 1", so it should be easier to find someone who can make a good recording.

[Dino]

But as anyone in the GL hobby knows - the way something actually was onscreen in the TV show is not always the way people want it to be, or the way they remember it being.  Even DOH fans.

No doubt about that. I mean, everyone knows that the General Lee didn't have door handles, right?

Brock Lee's post has got me curious about the possibility of the standard TV sound clip having been played on a trumpet. I'm going to see if I can find some trumpet players to ask about it. For quite some time I've wanted a clean high quality recording of that tune that sounds like the standard TV clip, and if it can be done on a trumpet, that would be excellent. There are far more people out there that can play a trumpet than there are people that own a Jubilee/Jubilaire Dixie horn complete with "disk 1", so it should be easier to find someone who can make a good recording.

I think it would be fairly easy to reproduce the sound on a keyboard as well.  I can play the tune on my sax, but it just doesn't sound right.   

[Stevearino]

Got a guy up in Statesville N.C. that I got some parts off of that told me his business for the last 5 years has been building General Lee replicas. He usually ends up selling them for around $20,000.00. He has done around 40 so far. They are just kind of rough around the edges as you would expect. They are drivers.

[Stevearino]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Dodge-Charger-General-Lee-Signed-/321216151808?ViewItem=&item=321216151808&forcev4exp=true#ht_540wt_1165

[MaximRecoil]

I think it would be fairly easy to reproduce the sound on a keyboard as well.  I can play the tune on my sax, but it just doesn't sound right.  

I asked about it on a trumpet forum. I posted the link to the TV sound clip of the Dixie horn that I ripped from the DVD, and asked if it was made by a trumpet or not. So far, 4 votes for "no" in the poll, and 0 votes for "yes". One of the longterm members there said:

The sound being played is generated by a reed and amplified by a bell, so it's a standard dixie car horn. It isn't a real trumpet, if that's what you're asking.

And:

Hey, glad to help.

Yes, I pretty much doubt a 'real trumpet' was ever used in the show. And certainly the clip from the show you posted wasn't played on a real trumpet. It just sounds too reedy, if you will. Almost like the timbre of a harmonica. You can really hear the reeds that produce the tone.

He also made a quick recording of him playing the tune on a trumpet (because I mentioned I'd like to hear what it would sound like on a trumpet if anyone there could easily do it), and said:

Well, here's a sample played on a cheap, chinese made rotary cornet (of all the trumpets I own, it's the only thing I have at work with me today!)

And here's the video - http://youtu.be/Plif4vx7kfI

Unfortunately, I don't think you can get the right sound without an actual Jubilaire/Jubilee Dixie car horn with "disc 1". You can replicate the tune with other instruments, but not the timbre. Maybe a highly adjustable keyboard/synthesizer could do it, but I doubt any of its instrument presets would sound right.

[Brock Lee]

It was asked to a few of the crew members, including Paul Baxely. It was agreed that WB had the sound clip made along side other sound effects similar to how they make them for cartoons. The sound clips would occasionally get revamped if needed, but often they lasted the run. Some sound effects were taken from existing stock, some were created just for Dukes. The horn was created in the studio for optimum clarity. John Schneider's "yee haw's" and other noises were recorded as well (like the yips that end up in the Boars Nest scenes).

Oh, and there is no proof they used a Jubilaire model horn early on. The fact is Jubilaire manufactured nothing. They bought those OEM with their own labeling casted in them. There were numerous other brands selling those horns at that time. Jubilaire is just the most common.

[MaximRecoil]

It was asked to a few of the crew members, including Paul Baxely. It was agreed that WB had the sound clip made along side other sound effects similar to how they make them for cartoons. The sound clips would occasionally get revamped if needed, but often they lasted the run. Some sound effects were taken from existing stock, some were created just for Dukes. The horn was created in the studio for optimum clarity. John Schneider's "yee haw's" and other noises were recorded as well (like the yips that end up in the Boars Nest scenes).

In the studio it would be easier to isolate the horn sound from the sound of the air compressor than if it was mounted in the car. One way would be to put a "hush box" around the air compressor. On the trumpet forum, in answer to the question of "Was this tune played on a trumpet?" (with a link provided to the season 4, episode 17 sound clip that I linked to in this thread), there are 6 votes for no and 0 votes for yes, and those guys are as into trumpets as the people here are into Chargers.

Oh, and there is no proof they used a Jubilaire model horn early on. The fact is Jubilaire manufactured nothing. They bought those OEM with their own labeling casted in them. There were numerous other brands selling those horns at that time. Jubilaire is just the most common.

Well, they were made by Jubilee MFG. Co. out of Omaha, Nebraska (or at least imported by, i.e., some of their musical horns were imported from Italy), a company that manufactured vehicle horns of many types (among other things, such as radios) for many decades (1905 until the late 1980s). This is why the DoH Dixie horn is usually referred to as "Jubilee/Jubilaire".

So do you know of any other brand names attached to the same set of horns and disk? If so, that could make it easier to find one.

[MaximRecoil]

So Indygenerallee is the guy that has Jubilee/Jubilaire Dixie horn with "disk 1" on YouTube. His horn sounds the best of any I've heard, and that includes the horns of a few other people on YouTube that claim they are Jubilee/Jubilaire Dixie horns with "disk 1". The sound of his horns in that video clip even sound better than the TV clip; same tune and tempo, but more vibrant sounding / better sound quality, plus I love that slight sustain at the end of the final note. You don't hear that on the TV sound clip, at least not as pronounced.

His recording would be perfect, if not for the sound of the air compressor mixed in, and unfortunately I can't think of any easy way of getting a good up close recording of that horn without picking up the sound of the air compressor, even if he was willing to do it.

If a good recording were available it would be so easy for anyone to have a perfect sounding Dixie horn. A digital audio player (if you have a modern aftermarket radio in your car, you already have one), a small audio amplifier (don't need anything special for this application, an el cheapo from Wal-Mart would do the trick), and an outdoor PA horn speaker (they can be found cheap; $10 or $15) would be all you'd need.

In the meantime, here is the TV sound clip that I removed the minor background noise from - https://app.box.com/s/int29v0dem41wshphty6

I used that particular clip because it was one I came across while watching the show that had less background noise than others. The only problem with it is Rosco's voice cuts in a split second before the final note ends. I cropped his voice off of course, but it leaves the final note a hair short.

[Mike DC]

In the meantime, here is the TV sound clip that I removed the minor background noise from - https://app.box.com/s/int29v0dem41wshphty6

I used that particular clip because it was one I came across while watching the show that had less background noise than others. The only problem with it is Rosco's voice cuts in a split second before the final note ends. I cropped his voice off of course, but it leaves the final note a hair short.

. . . "Sounds like you got a pickle in your pucker, that's not very good" . . .

[MaximRecoil]

. . . "Sounds like you got a pickle in your pucker, that's not very good" . . .

Yeah, it was a funny line but I wish he would have waited .071 seconds longer to deliver it.

There was another one in "Dukes Meet Cale Yarborough" (Season 2, Episode 7) that I thought was going to be perfect; no background noise at all to begin with. But just before the horn finished playing they cut to Boss Hogg yelling. That was an earlier version of the sound clip though, or it might have even been the actual horn played live during the filming of the scene, like they did in the pilot episode.

[kikgas01]

The Jubilaire has 12 notes, the Wolo has 11 notes. The correct is 12 notes....

[MaximRecoil]

The Jubilaire has 12 notes, the Wolo has 11 notes. The correct is 12 notes....

I've heard Wolo horns on YouTube that have 12 notes, but they still sound wrong (one or more of the following: wrong tempo, wrong notes, wrong relative duration of notes, wrong timbre). Here's an example - http://youtu.be/itEW1_JkqKM?t=1m15s

[ws23rt]

The Jubilaire has 12 notes, the Wolo has 11 notes. The correct is 12 notes....

I've heard Wolo horns on YouTube that have 12 notes, but they still sound wrong (one or more of the following: wrong tempo, wrong notes, wrong relative duration of notes, wrong timbre). Here's an example - http://youtu.be/itEW1_JkqKM?t=1m15s

Of course they are wrong    How could they be otherwise?   It is up to you to establish what is correct and then let us know.
We need a final answer

[MaximRecoil]

The Jubilaire has 12 notes, the Wolo has 11 notes. The correct is 12 notes....

I've heard Wolo horns on YouTube that have 12 notes, but they still sound wrong (one or more of the following: wrong tempo, wrong notes, wrong relative duration of notes, wrong timbre). Here's an example - http://youtu.be/itEW1_JkqKM?t=1m15s

Of course they are wrong    How could they be otherwise?   It is up to you to establish what is correct and then let us know.
We need a final answer

Troll alert.

[Back N Black]

The Jubilaire has 12 notes, the Wolo has 11 notes. The correct is 12 notes....

I've heard Wolo horns on YouTube that have 12 notes, but they still sound wrong (one or more of the following: wrong tempo, wrong notes, wrong relative duration of notes, wrong timbre). Here's an example - http://youtu.be/itEW1_JkqKM?t=1m15s

Of course they are wrong    How could they be otherwise?   It is up to you to establish what is correct and then let us know.
We need a final answer

Troll alert.

Comical irony coming from a guy who Troll's every thread on this site.

[MaximRecoil]

Comical irony coming from a guy who Troll's every thread on this site.

Except I don't, nor have I "trolled" any threads on this site whatsoever. Go ahead and find an example anywhere on this site where I posted an uncivil comment to someone who didn't first post an uncivil comment.

Also, monkey see, monkey do.

[Back N Black]

Comical irony coming from a guy who Troll's every thread on this site.

Except I don't, nor have I "trolled" any threads on this site whatsoever. Go ahead and find an example anywhere on this site where I posted an uncivil comment to someone who didn't first post an uncivil comment.

Also, monkey see, monkey do.

Is this just random quotes for the sake of posting random quotes, or do you have a point in mind?
   

[MaximRecoil]

Comical irony coming from a guy who Troll's every thread on this site.

Except I don't, nor have I "trolled" any threads on this site whatsoever. Go ahead and find an example anywhere on this site where I posted an uncivil comment to someone who didn't first post an uncivil comment.

Also, monkey see, monkey do.

Is this just random quotes for the sake of posting random quotes, or do you have a point in mind?
   

First of all, that's not uncivil. Also, even if it was (it wasn't), it was posted to the guy who had just lied out me, claiming I hijacked the thread, and lying about someone is uncivil by default.

[Back N Black]

Comical irony coming from a guy who Troll's every thread on this site.

Except I don't, nor have I "trolled" any threads on this site whatsoever. Go ahead and find an example anywhere on this site where I posted an uncivil comment to someone who didn't first post an uncivil comment.

Also, monkey see, monkey do.

Is this just random quotes for the sake of posting random quotes, or do you have a point in mind?
   

First of all, that's not uncivil. Also, even if it was (it wasn't), it was posted to the guy who had just lied out me, claiming I hijacked the thread, and lying about someone is uncivil by default.

Also, consider your tacit request to redefine the word "uncivil",denied.

[MaximRecoil]

Comical irony coming from a guy who Troll's every thread on this site.

Except I don't, nor have I "trolled" any threads on this site whatsoever. Go ahead and find an example anywhere on this site where I posted an uncivil comment to someone who didn't first post an uncivil comment.

Also, monkey see, monkey do.

Is this just random quotes for the sake of posting random quotes, or do you have a point in mind?
   

First of all, that's not uncivil. Also, even if it was (it wasn't), it was posted to the guy who had just lied out me, claiming I hijacked the thread, and lying about someone is uncivil by default.

Also, consider your tacit request to redefine the word "uncivil",denied.

Monkey see, monkey do II.

The fact is, you're wrong regardless of whether it was uncivil or not. I said:

"First of all, that's not uncivil. Also, even if it was (it wasn't), it was posted to the guy who had just lied out me, claiming I hijacked the thread, and lying about someone is uncivil by default."

Does the bolding help?

[Back N Black]

Comical irony coming from a guy who Troll's every thread on this site.

Except I don't, nor have I "trolled" any threads on this site whatsoever. Go ahead and find an example anywhere on this site where I posted an uncivil comment to someone who didn't first post an uncivil comment.

Also, monkey see, monkey do.

Is this just random quotes for the sake of posting random quotes, or do you have a point in mind?
   

First of all, that's not uncivil. Also, even if it was (it wasn't), it was posted to the guy who had just lied out me, claiming I hijacked the thread, and lying about someone is uncivil by default.

Also, consider your tacit request to redefine the word "uncivil",denied.

Monkey see, monkey do II.

The fact is, you're wrong regardless of whether it was uncivil or not. I said:

"First of all, that's not uncivil. Also, even if it was (it wasn't), it was posted to the guy who had just lied out me, claiming I hijacked the thread, and lying about someone is uncivil by default."

Does the bolding help?

Your Junior Detective Kit is in need of an upgrade.

[MaximRecoil]

Your Junior Detective Kit is in need of an upgrade.

Monkey See, Monkey Do III

You can go ahead and assume the same response from me for each future sequel you add to your Monkey See, Monkey Do series. Don't forget to change the number at the end, i.e., IV, V, VI, VII, and so on.

[Back N Black]

Your Junior Detective Kit is in need of an upgrade.

Monkey See, Monkey Do III

You can go ahead and assume the same response from me for each future sequel you add to your Monkey See, Monkey Do series. Don't forget to change the number at the end, i.e., IV, V, VI, VII, and so on.

I just copy and paste you replies from previous threads and you respond, its like you are debating with yourself.
Oh,
Monkey See, Monkey Do IV. (Already refuted, thus dismissed).

[ws23rt]

Your Junior Detective Kit is in need of an upgrade.

Monkey See, Monkey Do III

You can go ahead and assume the same response from me for each future sequel you add to your Monkey See, Monkey Do series. Don't forget to change the number at the end, i.e., IV, V, VI, VII, and so on.

I just copy and paste you replies from previous threads and you respond, its like you are debating with yourself.
Oh,
Monkey See, Monkey Do IV. (Already refuted, thus dismissed).

It's best to use care here---If he were to debate him self for too long it might cause a big splat on the screen

[GordonGriggs]

I don't see any problem doing a General Lee for 20k. I did a "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry" for about 19k. If I had not put 5k in the 440 it would have been a lot less.

[kikgas01]

Thanks for that link Maxim, never seen that.

[UH60L]

Funny thing about the horn.  When I got my charger running, I ordered the correct (12 note I believe) horn from JC Whitney.

Installed it and it sounded pretty good.....with the engine running and at a high idle/slash engine revving, hehe.

My electrical system was so shoddy, that if the car was at idle or turned off, it played really sloooooow.

Also, I hooked mine to the actual horn button and you had to hold it down for the duration and let up before it started going again, hehe.   

The reactions to it while driving were quite hilarious though considering my car was painted appliance white.   

[MaximRecoil]

Installed it and it sounded pretty good.....with the engine running and at a high idle/slash engine revving, hehe.

My electrical system was so shoddy, that if the car was at idle or turned off, it played really sloooooow.

One of the advantages of having a good recording of the horn and playing it through a PA speaker is that it would always sound perfect instead of varying in speed depending on how much juice is available. Another advantage of a PA speaker setup is that you could play any tune/sound you wanted.

[Mike DC]

                                   
The complaint has always been that the electronic PA type Dixie horns don't sound nearly as good. 

I don't know what would be feasible if you custom built one rather than off-the-shelf'd it.   

But AFAIK trains & semis still use actual compressed air pushing through plastic/metal horns.  Might be a lesson there. 

[MaximRecoil]

                                   
The complaint has always been that the electronic PA type Dixie horns don't sound nearly as good.  

I don't know what would be feasible if you custom built one rather than off-the-shelf'd it.

One done on the cheap may not sound very good, but there is the issue of the recording itself too. Off-the-shelf setups like the COGApa not only use a cheap speaker and amplifier, but they also never have the right recording. Most traditional air horn based Dixie setups sound bad too though; a few minutes spent on YouTube searching for "Dixie horn" can confirm that.    

But AFAIK trains & semis still use actual compressed air pushing through plastic/metal horns.  Might be a lesson there.  

Police, fire, ambulance, and air-raid sirens these days are all done through an audio amplifier and a horn-loaded compression driver (AKA: "PA speaker"). The most typical police siren setup uses a control head unit which generates the electrical signals for the various tones (e.g., "wail", "yelp") in real time (i.e., not a recording, though a high quality recording of those electrical signals would give the same results), a 200 watt amplifier, and a pair of 100 watt horn loaded compression drivers.

The principle is the same either way, i.e., moving air combined with the acoustic loading effect of a horn. Your basic car horn like the pair of horns that came stock on Dodge Chargers are also speakers, albeit rudimentary ones.

I've been looking around for used police siren speakers. They are just horn loaded compression drivers, like you'll find being used in all sorts of PA or home/car audio applications (i.e., they can do far more than just play basic tones; they could do a fine job of playing anything from 12-note Dixie to Beethoven to AC/DC if you wanted them to), but the advantage of them is that they are designed for a car environment / exposure to the elements, like mounting behind a car grille. They are also designed to meet sound output standards required for warning sirens (such as SAE J1849).

When I was younger I was heavily into car audio, and I still have a couple of big Rockford Fosgate amplifiers from the 1990s (which was before Rockford Fosgate "sold out" in the early 2000s, and started showing up at Best Buy and such with inflated "max wattage" power ratings). One of them is a Power 1000a2 (250 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms; 500 watts x 2 @ 2 ohms; 1000 watts x 1 @ 4 ohms). Note that this is a class A/B amplifier and retailed for over $1,000 new. 1,000 watt amplifiers are a dime a dozen these days, but they are class D amplifiers. Class D amplifiers are very efficient, but they have poor sound quality, so they are primarily used for powering subwoofers: a specialized application in which their deficiencies aren't generally considered perceptible. They are also used for powering police siren speakers because rudimentary "wail" and "welp" tones don't require much precision from the amplifier, so it makes sense to go with the cheaper, smaller, and more efficient class D amplifier if a siren type sound is all you are using it for. Class A/B amplifiers on the other hand are useful for everything; it is what you'll find in e.g. a home stereo receiver, or in car audio powering the mids and highs (and the lows, if someone is especially concerned about sound quality of their bass).

So my plan is to find 4 of these 100 watt police siren speakers. The most common ones have a nominal impedance of 11 ohms (which is odd, 4 ohms and 8 ohms are the standards for car audio and home audio speakers respectively). I'll wire them into two parallel pairs, so I'll effectively have two 5.5 ohm speakers. Since my amplifier puts out 250 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms, it will put out about 203 watts x 2 @ 5.5 ohms (406 total watts), which is great for powering four 100 watt speakers, and since the impedance is over twice as high as the amplifier is stable at, it will run cool / have an easy life.

This setup will have twice the power and twice the number of speakers as a typical police siren, which theoretically will make it 6 dB louder than a typical police siren. Some police sirens only use one 100 watt speaker, so 4 times the power and number of speakers in that case. It will be way louder than any normal Dixie horn.

I also found a better copy of the TV sound clip, and it isn't missing a split second of the last note like the one I posted earlier, so that part is taken care of.

Edit: I just won an auction for four 100 watt police siren speakers, 3 of them are Federal Signal Dynamax ES100 (1 of them is new, 2 of them are used), and the 4th one is a Federal Signal Dynamax MS100 (which was the older version of the ES100; looks the same), also used. Since I already have an ideal amplifier in storage, a head unit with pre-outs installed in my car, and a good copy of the TV sound clip on my PC, all I need to do is wait for the speakers to get here and install/wire everything up.  

[Mike DC]

   
That's way over my head in terms of audio tech.  Sounds like you know what you're doing. 



Where/how did you get a cleaner audio clip of the TV show's horn byte, anyway?

[MaximRecoil]

Where/how did you get a cleaner audio clip of the TV show's horn byte, anyway?

On a cell phone ringtone site (link). There were 49 results for "Dixie horn", so I started clicking on each one. Most of them were the same thing, uploaded by different people, and wrong, probably recorded from a Wolo. Then there were some other wrong ones uploaded by other people, and a few that were downright horrible. Then I clicked on one that was obviously ripped from the TV show, and it was pretty good as-is. They had obviously done some background noise removal from it, but a little bit of it remained. There were a couple more on there uploaded by different people that were from the same audio source, but had different processing applied to them. I took the one of those three that I liked the sound of the best and did a little extra background noise removal on it and cropping of dead air and I'm satisfied with it for now. I don't expect I'll find any better unless Warner Bros. officially releases it in some sort of TV sound effects compilation or something.

Here are the three from that site that were obviously sourced from the TV show:

1. http://www.zedge.net/ringtone/1631984/dixie-general-lee/ (this is the one I used for additional processing)

2. http://www.zedge.net/ringtone/520144/dixie-horn/ (this is the same as above, but someone got a little overzealous with cropping, so part of the first note is missing)

3. http://www.zedge.net/ringtone/159038/dixie-air-horn/ (still the same source; processing has changed its timbre slightly, and not for the better in my opinion)

And here's the version I'm planning to use with my speaker setup (removed additional noise from and cropped the file in link #1) - https://app.box.com/s/f3w1l523507mt4cjx7uk

[sanders7981]

As much as I love the debate about a "correct" sounding horn, I will steer back to the OPs thread topic.  Sure, you can absolutely make a GL for less then 20k!  I have/am doing all the work on mine, which has saved a ton of money, and will have it all together for around 17k, including purchase price.