High end car, would you rather have a original or a clone?

[cudaken]

 After seeing the post about the rusted 69 Hemi Charger 4 Speed (more of a parts car except it is a real Hemi Car) post I thought I would ask what you folks think.  

On common cars, like 383 Road Runners, Chargers HP 383, Cuda's and such I rather have the real deal. Less to up grade to HP standers than a 318 Charger.

Plus, I am sorry, but a 318 Charger is not a muscle car, it was a great looking Grocery Getter. This a great looking car and I would buy one to clone into a R/T with no problem.

I have never been a numbers guy and never will be!

Now if you had big bucks, say you won a lottery would you buy real high end cars or clone your own?

My self, I would clone high end cars, say a 69 Daytona and rather have a clone than a original. Reason I want drivers not garage art. I drove my 70 Cuda, 69 Charger and 68 Road Runner daily and across country when I traveled between my shops. I put 98,000 miles on the Cuda is 6 years and 120,000 on the Charger in 10 years. Did not matter if it was raining, snowing or the sun was out. By the way, I am not talking about 30 years ago, but 10.

Reason I rather clone a High End car is not the repair cost to keep it up! I would not want to whack up a original to make it my own.

Today day dream?

69 Daytona, 528 Hemi fuel injected, 727, gear vender O/D, 3:91 gears, dual 10 gallon fuel cells in the trunk, stock fuel tank, stiff and up grade chassis and suspension and a long road trip to Alaska!

Cuda Ken, Come on Mega Ball!  

[Ghoste]

In both cases I always want as much car as I can afford.  For a driver a clone is fine but I'd still rather have numbers if I can afford them.  If I want to spend all the money I would always want an orginal over a clone.

[myk]

Money not being an issue, it doesn't matter to me; even if it was the rarest, most special, most valuable...let's say, Charger on the planet (I'll let you Mopar history buffs dream about the options list), I'd still give it the resto 'mod treatment and have it ready to do daily driver status and then weekend track duties...

[Dino]

Clone.  There's too many people out there drooling over bone stock and rare cars and they can have them.  I would feel bad taking someone's dream and changing it because I don't have that bond with originality or brand loyalty.  Yet it is important to know that what is really no big deal to me, is to someone else.

I absolutely love my clone and I can do with it as I please without someone pulling his hair out because I 'destroyed' a classic.  The real deal would go to the top of my list only if it is exactly how I want it, and those do not exist.

[petercharger]

What I don't get is that everyone is stuck in the 60's.    If its not a 68 to 70 car the world ends when it comes to muscle cars....there are rice burners that are 4 bangers that will leave any car in the dust....are they not muscle cars?
The thing with 60's cars is......you really could not tell if it was a slant 6 or hemi .....not many clues from a street distance....excluding the motor noise

Look at the early 70's mopar..they had style, special doors hoods stripping that from a distance you knew what it would have in it ....they had personality etc.   so when people talk about clone or muscle cars in the past...they are still out there and affordable...mopar lovers just need to open up there eyes wider..      Big is not always fast.  Say my kids who have rice burners.   

And define muscle.  Fastest production vehicle at a particular year time...

Then google the 1976 dodge little red express.....for that period of poor American performance...it still was the king of the hill


So every decade has a car or cars that were the best...again need to think outside the 60's decade. 

I love them all. Because they are mopar....keep them alive and don't snub them.....

[MaximRecoil]

there are rice burners that are 4 bangers that will leave any car in the dust....are they not muscle cars?

No, they're not. Performance is only part of the definition of "muscle car". They are not muscle cars for the same reason that they are not pony cars, sports cars (in the case of Civics and the like), luxury cars, etc. Muscle cars were intermediate size 2-door RWD cars (going by the 1960s idea of "intermediate") with big engines that had usually been reserved for full-size cars in the past. The GTO (1964) is commonly cited as the one that really kicked off the '60s and '70s muscle car era.

With regard to the OP's question, it is hard to answer, because if money wasn't an issue, then you wouldn't have to choose between a clone or an original, you could have both, one to drive and one to be a trailer or garage queen. However, if I had unlimited funds, I wouldn't make an exact clone of anything. Instead, I would buy Chrysler Corp. and get my employees to work on making a brand new Charger with the exact same outward appearance as a '69, but I would have them incorporate improvements, such as higher grade materials, structural enhancements, etc. For example:

- All leather interior (the highest grade leather available)

- Replace the SE fake woodgrain stuff with real hardwood, American black walnut being my favorite; this includes putting real wood on the R/T style steering wheel.

- Full length subframe rails (just like the Charger's designer originally wanted), and various other chassis stiffening enhancements, along with additional welds, and thicker, higher quality steel where it matters. "No squeaks or rattles" would be a critical design requirement.

- The grille would look the same but it would be machined out of aluminum. The headlight doors would be electrically operated.

- Electronic ignition and fuel injection

- Totally redesigned/modernized HVAC system, with good user controls (and definitely not vacuum operated), and intermittent windshield wipers.

- Door speakers, 6.5" component type (separate tweeters)

- Second-generation Chargers tend to leak when it rains, so that problem would be solved in the design room before anything gets built.

- 5 speed manual transmission and hydraulic clutch, and I'd want them to come up with the greatest shift mechanism in the history of the world, and if they couldn't, I'd outsource that job to the Germans, the Italians, or the Japanese.

- Improved upper control arms for more camber and caster adjustability.

- Rack and pinion steering

- Biggest disk brakes that could fit in 15" wheels

And probably some more stuff that I'd think of along the way.

And once my car was built, I'd make them available for sale, in as complete a form as I could without having to comply with BS modern regulations (such as requiring airbags, emissions controls, ugly "5 MPH bumpers", and so on). For example, I'd sell complete body shells (including the front clip), crate engines, etc.

[Mopar Nut]

I would have one original Daytona and one clone Daytona to drive.

[ws23rt]

The question of would I rather have an original or a clone?

The original with out hesitation.   To have both would be good but if all I had was a clone I would still be wanting.

Part of my obsession with these cars has to do with their history.  The collector bug in me says original survivor is the top.

The memories of driving the crap out of them is still with me and I want to do it some more but I get that fun and more from my challenger.

Just thought I would add that If I were to have my wish and got a high end original.  I may be able to sell it and get two clones.

[Bob T]

Clone or tribute.
Would'nt get so would up about putting a lot of miles on it then and it leaves more fun coupons for other leisure pursuits - like Big Block circle boats!  

Probably the K & K purple car that Stu's buddy owns would be the pick of the bunch for me.

[DHodge94]

Is the 1969 Hemi charger parts car for sale?

[cudaken]

Darius, I sent you a PM and a link.

Cuda Ken

[charger_fan_4ever]

I would take the real deal any day of the week put some mags on it and drive the wheels off it on nice weather days.

[Cooter]

Depends on whether we are talking money or enjoyment..
Original for money reasons..ie investment.
Clone to have fun with as many clones are way more powerful, handle way better, and many have hemis with A/C than the originals.

[XS29L]

I would choose a clone because the "high end" car that I would like to own is an '68 Hemi Dart.  A clone would be about 200k cheaper and I would have alot of fun pounding on it at the drags.

[Mopar Nut]

I would choose a clone because the "high end" car that I would like to own is an '68 Hemi Dart.  A clone would be about 200k cheaper and I would have alot of fun pounding on it at the drags.

If I was to win a 300 million dollar lottery, I would donate a clone '68 Hemi Dart to me too.  

I'm feeling lucky!

[tan top]

    had my charger soo long  nearly 25 years  ,  I've done  / doing  what I want to it (  , ( never selling ) ,  makes no difference that's its a R/T SE ,  ((although stopped my self doing a few mods , required cutting holes  )),  having said that ,    when I done the nut & bolt resto  , before I had a computer internet etc , I know / knew   the color combo was odd ,  & thought sure I would see or hear of another , but  none as of yet ,  may be I should of kept it closer to factory , although its not the original motor   

  , today if I was buying a charger , would be looking for a XP car & build it how I want ,  or a XS car  but it all depends on price , would be  looking for  one that needs total restoration ,  to start from scratch .
not much of a definitive answer I know 



 

[bill440rt]

The question of would I rather have an original or a clone?

The original with out hesitation.  

This.

[Patronus]

Where's the poll?? I'd vote clone probably. The original high option/rarer cars are fine. I prefer making cars a bit my own too much and for monetary reasons that would be unwise with an original.

[ramairthree]

If I was a millionaire collector...

well I am not.

I have a real GTO, but it was not numbers matching, originally a 4 speed, etc.

I drive the hell out of it, and set it up the way I like.
It may not be a real Judge, but the engine is built to RA specs and it is a lot of fun for a quarter the cost if it was original, matching, real, etc.



I saved a 71 Javelin SST 360cid car that had sat for 20 years and was going to get scrapped.  Driveway Rustoleum paint job, AMX spoiler, into a Trans Am/SCCA racer, added front disc, cheap front spoiler not real AMX, built some subframe connectors I am going to weld in, etc.  Not a real race car, but fun and it is one the road and not in a junkyard!




I also picked up a stalled project 74 RR that was going to get scrapped.  It was in primer and half apart. great coded car except 318 and 904 with peg leg.  free front buckets, free satellite interior, drive way rustoleum over the primer, and got sun roof working but leaks.  Threw a flag magnet over the sunroof to stop the leak, plan on a 360 stroked to 408, then might put a 440/GTX emblems on it.

No one else was going to save it, and no value in restoring back to 318 car.






Anyways, for me the fun is the looks and driving them.  I would love to have the money to buy my parents F6 over white Daytona they sold in76, but would be more likely to end up with a clone.

Now, some stuff I would just not clone.  When is the last time you saw a two door post Tempest or Cutlass with bench seat, column shift, and a nice running 350.  I would not mess with those.  I would not mess with a big block Satellite either.  I guess it boils down to I would not mess up something nice and rare, but have no problems going to town on something nobody else was going to save and is worth nothing put back to original compared to the cost.  A buddy has an all original green 74 RR with pistol grip 4 speed and 318!  That is pretty rare.  I would not mess with it.  But if the car was trashed and not original motor, etc. I would not think twice about doing something with it besides restoring to original.

[Bob T]

Nice work on the Judgie , SST and the RR Ramairthree!
Always have desired a Judge. ..ther'es a guy out here that competes in Production Muscle class racing in an Javelin with the similar livery, pretty cool!.
Just to further the hijack a bit more, here's a pic of it...

[6spd68]

For me, the appeal of an all stock original is not, and has never been there.  Why spend more money on something completely original when you can have something faster that's more fun to drive?   

For example, if I was to be handed a 426 Hemi car, I'd still look at what I could do to make it faster.  I know there's a difference, and collectors don't want that, but they can have their legit R/Ts.  I'd rather build my own speed machine that performs how I want it too.  That's why we mod cars right?  Too make them better. 

[Homerr]

Original, however I'm unlikely to pay the price premium for an original high-end car.  If I found a Hemi or aerocar at a cheap price, of course, I would buy it.

I want a driver overall, something like what WHITE AND RED 69 has going on, be it an original R/T or not.  I'm willing to pay a bit of a price premium for an R/T, but the right non-R/T car would be okay too.