What's involved in swapping a 360 into a 318 car?

[MaximRecoil]

My mechanic friend has an early '70s Dodge camper in his junkyard with a 360 and ~30,000 miles. It runs beautifully.

My car is a '69 Charger with a '73 318 in it. It runs good, but not as good as that 360 (my engine seems to have high mileage and could probably use an overhaul at least), and since the 318 is stock, the stock 360 obviously has more power.

I briefly discussed with him the possibility of putting that engine in my car, and he said something about the 360 being externally balanced as opposed to my 318 which is internally balanced.

If I keep the 360's flexplate, can it be connected to my 904 transmission and my torque converter, or would I have to use the camper's torque converter and perhaps its 727 transmission as well? I'm thinking that if I use the 727 I'd have to shorten my driveshaft, which I'd rather not do. Also, the 727 is more parasitic than the 904, which means less power to the wheels if I use it.

[cudaken]

 Max, if your car is a automatic it does not have a flywheel, it has a flex plate. You will need the converter and the flex plate off the 360 trans. Balancing weight is on the converter. I am guessing the camper is a auto? Not sure if they are the same transmission.

Oil pan I have no clue if it will fit 69 Charger! I do know you can not interchange a 360 oil pan with a 318!

Other wise it should drop right in. But then again, I have never owned a SB Mopar.

Cuda Ken

[MaximRecoil]

Max, if your car is a automatic it does not have a flywheel, it has a flex plate.

Yeah I know. I asked about keeping the 360's flexplate.

You will need the converter and the flex plate off the 360 trans. Balancing weight is on the converter.

Okay, I think my mechanic friend mentioned something about the balancing weights being on the torque converter. I thought the balancing weights were on the harmonic balancer and flexplate.

Will the 360's torque converter (727 transmission) work with my 904 transmission?

I am guessing the camper is a auto? Not sure if they are the same transmission.

Yeah, it is an automatic; a 727. My car has a 904.

Oil pan I have no clue if it will fit 69 Charger! I do know you can not interchange a 360 oil pan with a 318!

I think my friend mentioned something about the oil pan too, now that you mention it.

[Cooter]

Really should upgrade to 727. Unless you wanna invest a ton of money in that 904.
IIRC, the converters interchange.

[MaximRecoil]

Really should upgrade to 727. Unless you wanna invest a ton of money in that 904.
IIRC, the converters interchange.

I know that the 727 is a tougher transmission than the 904, but I don't drive the car hard. I don't spin the tires or take it to the dragstrip, nor do I plan to. For as long as the 904 holds up, I'll get the benefit of better gas mileage / less power loss through the transmission and not have to shorten my driveshaft.

If the 904 fails behind the 360, that 727 will still be in the camper for the taking, or better yet (though more expensive) would be to rebuild the 904, upgrading its weak points in the process. Then I'd have the best of both worlds: efficiency and durability. That's why built 904s and GM Powerglides are so popular in drag racing. Of course it would cost four or five thousand dollars to build one like powerful drag cars use, but you can simply upgrade the weak points for far less money, and it should be good enough for a stock '72 360.

Of course, what I really wish it had is an A-833.

So if the 727 torque converters interchange with 904 torque converters, then there isn't any more to this swap than just dropping in the 360, flexplate, and torque converter, is that right?

[maxwellwedge]

You will also need to get a proper motor mount bracket for one of the sides - don't remember which one at the moment....maybe someone else can chime in.

[69finder]

You will also need to get a proper motor mount bracket for one of the sides - don't remember which one at the moment....maybe someone else can chime in.

Why?  He knows everything about everything.  Why should anyone else chime in?

[ACUDANUT]

LOL, I know little about this conversion (small blocks) But I would put the entire group (engine and trans) from the M/H into the Charger (if it will work).

[JB400]

You'll have to be careful about the trans from the motorhome.  Most are cable shifted instead of mechanical linkage. You can use the motorhome trans, but will have to use an aftermarket shifter that is cable operated.

[Cooter]

Sh*t if fuel mileage is what you want, I'd pony up the bucks for the 833....

[MaximRecoil]

Sh*t if fuel mileage is what you want, I'd pony up the bucks for the 833....

More power to the wheels too. If it was just the A-833 I needed, I would buy one.

You'll have to be careful about the trans from the motorhome.  Most are cable shifted instead of mechanical linkage. You can use the motorhome trans, but will have to use an aftermarket shifter that is cable operated.

This one has a factory column shifter, same as my car. I assume it uses linkage rods.

Why?  He knows everything about everything.  Why should anyone else chime in?

Again with your reading difficulties.

[ACUDANUT]

Sh*t if fuel mileage is what you want, I'd pony up the bucks for the 833....

If that's what he wants he is in the wrong hobby. lol

[MaximRecoil]

Sh*t if fuel mileage is what you want, I'd pony up the bucks for the 833....

If that's what he wants he is in the wrong hobby. lol

Say what? A more efficient transmission gives you more power to the wheels and better gas mileage. Who wouldn't want both of those things? Are you saying that people in this hobby are supposed to prefer less gas mileage and less power?

[jaak]

You will also need to get a proper motor mount bracket for one of the sides - don't remember which one at the moment....maybe someone else can chime in.

Driver's side.

Jason

[MaximRecoil]

According to this article:

The 904 uses a 10.75" converter. The 727 used either a 10.75" or an 11.75" converter, so the bell housing is larger at the bottom and deeper at both the top and the bottom.

So if the camper's torque converter is 11.75", I guess it wouldn't work with a 904. Is there any way to know what size torque converter the camper has without tearing it apart?

[A383Wing]

flex plates are the same between both engines.

Suggestion 1) weld the proper weight onto your trans converter..there are kits for this...(2) get an aftermarket flexplate that makes up for the weight .....it's not a "square plate" as normal ones...looks like more of a triangle

[Cooter]

That MH 360 might have a few more ft lbs than your 318, but for the trouble, I'd be looking into a bb swap...

[MaximRecoil]

That MH 360 might have a few more ft lbs than your 318, but for the trouble, I'd be looking into a bb swap...

Way too much money. Not only would I need the big block engine itself, but I'd also definitely need a 727, and my 8.25" wouldn't much care for big block torque, so I'd need to find an 8.75". Then I'd also need a K-member, all of the motor mounts, a different radiator, torsion bars, and some other bits and pieces probably.

The nice thing about the 360 is that it's low mileage, more or less "drop-in", and I don't know what Dave would sell it to me for, but I know it would be cheap.

[ACUDANUT]

You don't need a different K-Frame. All sb/bb/rb engines all use the same one.

[MaximRecoil]

You don't need a different K-Frame. All sb/bb/rb engines all use the same one.

Really? I thought the big block K-member was different. Well, that's good to know, but even then a big block swap is still way too much money.

[Cooter]

I gotta 1977 RUNNING 440 and rebuilt 727 for sale for $600.00.....

[ACUDANUT]

You don't need a different K-Frame. All sb/bb/rb engines all use the same one.

Really? I thought the big block K-member was different. Well, that's good to know, but even then a big block swap is still way too much money.

This is elementary. Any way a big block is still more bag for the buck. 

[odcics2]

If you want to save money AND get great fuel economy, keep what you have now.   

[MaximRecoil]

If you want to save money AND get great fuel economy, keep what you have now.    

I obviously don't want to keep what I have now. If I did, I wouldn't have made this thread. I want an engine with more power (but not so much more power that I get drastically worse gas mileage and need to change the transmission and rearend; I'm not a drag racer) and less wear and tear on it, and I don't want to spend 4 figures in the process. A 360 with 30K miles that runs smooth as silk, already sitting in my friend's junkyard, fits the bill quite well.

[Dino]

Geez guys, what's with the attitudes about fuel mileage on this site? 

Every time the same song, if you want fuel economy you got the wrong car.  So we shouldn't try to improve it then?  That may be okay for the Sunday drivers but for those of us that actually drive these cars it is wise to get as much mileage out of the car as possible.  Or any car for that matter.  I for one never enjoyed having to stop for gas every friggin' week, especially with the lousy fill tube design that turns everything into a fountain if you don't watch it.

I think a 360 with a 904 is a very nice option, and low cost at that.  Get a new ds motor mount and drop that puppy in.  I'm not sure how to check what converter is in there but if there's a distinct optical difference, you could remove the cover plate at the bottom of the bell housing and peek inside.