How stuff works

[ws23rt]

I am the sort that want's to know the rules about how things work.  Sometimes our instinct is wrong and it can be fun finding out why.

3 glasses of water filled to the brim with an ice cube in each

1---solid ice cube
2---ice cube with air bubble in it
3---ice cube with steel ball in it.

Question---when the ice melts are the water levels the same?  If not than what are they?  Over flow/even/ low?

[XH29N0G]

I am the sort that want's to know the rules about how things work.  Sometimes our instinct is wrong and it can be fun finding out why.

me too. 

I think I got it, so I will wait to see if I'm wrong or right.  I suppose it depends how big the steel ball is and maybe how warm the room is.

[Fred]

Hmmm!  
I'm no expert on the #3 as my experimental drinking hasn't led me there.  But I can safely say that in the case of #1 and #2, the whiskey levels get lower and lower and there is no chance of over flowing however many ice blocks I add.

Oh, pardon me, you were talking about water. I believe that when the ice melts, the volume increases but I'm a simple man.

[A383Wing]

I say the water level would be the same with #1 & #3.....#2 would go down because of bubble

(I think)

[ws23rt]

Hmmm!  
I'm no expert on the #3 as my experimental drinking hasn't led me there.  But I can safely say that in the case of #1 and #2, the whiskey levels get lower and lower and there is no chance of over flowing however many ice blocks I add.

Oh, pardon me, you were talking about water. I believe that when the ice melst, the volume increases but I'm a simple man.

Oh you simple man you --I expect the simple man to get it first anyway.
When one adds whiskey to the mix it becomes all fun and no solution

[mrsskip68]

I believe this is a sorta trick question, but I have an answer. Could be wrong, but i'll give it a shot! If the cubes and ball bearing are in it from the start, and its filled to brim, in theory no glass should flow over as the space has been accounted for. (if that makes sence?) Lisa

[Darkman]

The water levels will drop.

When water freezes it expands

[ws23rt]

I believe this is a sorta trick question, but I have an answer. Could be wrong, but i'll give it a shot! If the cubes and ball bearing are in it from the start, and its filled to brim, in theory no glass should flow over as the space has been accounted for. (if that makes sence?) Lisa

There is no trick to this. (I kinda shy away from the trick questions)
You do make sense in your answer.  And you have answered part of the question in that no glass will overflow.

The question remains.  Overflow--nixed by you----remain the same or low level?   And why?

[ws23rt]

The water levels will drop.

When water freezes it expands

Water does indeed expand as it freezes.  That is why part of the ice is out of the water. 
The answer that the three water levels will drop is not right.

[Fred]

The water levels will drop.

When water freezes it expands

Yes but if the glass is full and you add an ice block.......as it melts you still end up with more volume. 

[ws23rt]

The water levels will drop.

When water freezes it expands

Yes but if the glass is full and you add an ice block.......as it melts you still end up with more volume. 

That answer is dismissed as being false--- OOps sorry I am still recovering from a nightmare

No the volume does not increase as the ice melts.

[stripedelete]

The water levels will drop.

When water freezes it expands

Yes but if the glass is full and you add an ice block.......as it melts you still end up with more volume. 

That's called "backwash".

Stop doin' it!

[Fred]

Ok, you got me. The honest truth is, it will never overflow. It stays at the same level it's at when you first put the ice cube in.
Only the ice cube with the air bubble would have a slightly less volume.

[ws23rt]

Ok, you got me. The honest truth is, it will never overflow. It stays at the same level it's at when you first put the ice block in.

It is true the glasses will not over flow as the ice melts. However One cube is all ice. Another has air in it.  And the third has  steel ball.

They do not weigh the same.    The question remains?

[Fred]

The water levels will drop.

When water freezes it expands

Yes but if the glass is full and you add an ice block.......as it melts you still end up with more volume. 

That answer is dismissed as being false--- OOps sorry I am still recovering from a nightmare

No the volume does not increase as the ice melts.

I'm so sorry, Bruce, I was coming at it from far, far left field.  

[ws23rt]

The water levels will drop.

When water freezes it expands

Yes but if the glass is full and you add an ice block.......as it melts you still end up with more volume.  

That answer is dismissed as being false--- OOps sorry I am still recovering from a nightmare

No the volume does not increase as the ice melts.

I'm so sorry, Bruce, I was coming at it from far, far left field.  

Do I need a megaphone to speak to you out there in left field?

[Fred]

Ok, you got me. The honest truth is, it will never overflow. It stays at the same level it's at when you first put the ice block in.

It is true the glasses will not over flow as the ice melts. However One cube is all ice. Another has air in it.  And the third has  steel ball.

They do not weigh the same.    The answer remains?

The air bubble would mean less water in the glass.  The ball bearing doesn't alter anything. The only difference is that you'll have metal in the glass.
If you intend to swallow it, make sure it fits through the orifice it will have to come out of at a later date!!!!! (or you'll end up like the monkey that swallowed the cue ball)

[XH29N0G]

I believe this is a sorta trick question, but I have an answer. Could be wrong, but i'll give it a shot! If the cubes and ball bearing are in it from the start, and its filled to brim, in theory no glass should flow over as the space has been accounted for. (if that makes sence?) Lisa

There is no trick to this. (I kinda shy away from the trick questions)
You do make sense in your answer.  And you have answered part of the question in that no glass will overflow.

The question remains.  Overflow--nixed by you----remain the same or low level?   And why?

OK, so intuition struck again and I got the first two wrong - with floating cubes, I guess then we are only dealing with a slight drop until 4C and then it will rise again.  (Got to talk about water and its structure tomorrow in class - so this discussion is perfectly timed).  If the cube is dragged down by the steel, however a greater proportion of ice may be underwater and the sticky uppy parts won't be there to compensate for the change in volume on melting.

[ws23rt]

I believe this is a sorta trick question, but I have an answer. Could be wrong, but i'll give it a shot! If the cubes and ball bearing are in it from the start, and its filled to brim, in theory no glass should flow over as the space has been accounted for. (if that makes sence?) Lisa

There is no trick to this. (I kinda shy away from the trick questions)
You do make sense in your answer.  And you have answered part of the question in that no glass will overflow.

The question remains.  Overflow--nixed by you----remain the same or low level?   And why?

OK, so intuition struck again and I got the first two wrong - with floating cubes, I guess then we are only dealing with a slight drop until 4C and then it will rise again.  (Got to talk about water and its structure tomorrow in class - so this discussion is perfectly timed).  If the cube is dragged down by the steel, however a greater proportion of ice may be underwater and the sticky uppy parts won't be there to compensate for the change in volume on melting.

*CHING*    You have it---The extra weight of the steel ball does pull the ice lower. The water level is higher from the start.  When the steel ball drops to the bottom the ice left will rise and the water level will drop.

The other two glasses water level will remain the same because the weight of the ice with or with out air in them does not change.

[ws23rt]

Ok, you got me. The honest truth is, it will never overflow. It stays at the same level it's at when you first put the ice block in.

It is true the glasses will not over flow as the ice melts. However One cube is all ice. Another has air in it.  And the third has  steel ball.

They do not weigh the same.    The answer remains?

The air bubble would mean less water in the glass.  The ball bearing doesn't alter anything. The only difference is that you'll have metal in the glass.
If you intend to swallow it, make sure it fits through the orifice it will have to come out of at a later date!!!!! (or you'll end up like the monkey that swallowed the cue ball)

The monkey swallowing a cue ball sounds like a different kind of science experiment.  Hmm----Was he playing 8 ball or nine ball
Need to know all the important information

[Fred]

Ok, you got me. The honest truth is, it will never overflow. It stays at the same level it's at when you first put the ice block in.

It is true the glasses will not over flow as the ice melts. However One cube is all ice. Another has air in it.  And the third has  steel ball.

They do not weigh the same.    The answer remains?

The air bubble would mean less water in the glass.  The ball bearing doesn't alter anything. The only difference is that you'll have metal in the glass.
If you intend to swallow it, make sure it fits through the orifice it will have to come out of at a later date!!!!! (or you'll end up like the monkey that swallowed the cue ball)

The monkey swallowing a cue ball sounds like a different kind of science experiment.  Hmm----Was he playing 8 ball or nine ball
Need to know all the important information

You asked for it (courtesy of  SeattleCharger)   ..........


Guy walks into a bar with his pet monkey. He orders a drink, and
while he's drinking, the monkey grabs some olives off the bar and
eats them, then grabs some sliced limes and eats them, then jumps
onto the pool table, grabs the que ball, sticks it in his mouth and
swallows it whole.

The bartender screams at the guy, "Did you see what your monkey
just did?

"The guy says "No, what?"

"He just ate the cue ball off my pool table, whole!"

"Yeah, that doesn't surprise me," replied the guy, "he eats everything
in sight, the little bastard. Sorry, I'll pay for the cue ball and stuff."

He finishes his drink, pays his bill, and pays for the stuff the monkey
ate, then leaves.

Two weeks later he comes back to the bar with his monkey. He
orders a drink, and the monkey starts running around the bar again.

While the man is finishing his drink, the monkey finds a maraschino
cherry on the bar. He grabs it, sticks it up his butt, pulls it out, and
eats it. Then the monkey finds a peanut, and again sticks it up his
butt, pulls it out, and eats it.

The bartender is disgusted. "Did you see what your monkey is doing
now?" he asks. "He stuck a maraschino cherry and then a peanut up
his butt, pulled them out, and ate them!" said the bartender.

"Yeah, that doesn't surprise me," replied the guy. "He still eats
everything in sight, but ever since he had to pass that cue ball, he
measures everything first."




 

[ws23rt]

Ok, you got me. The honest truth is, it will never overflow. It stays at the same level it's at when you first put the ice block in.

It is true the glasses will not over flow as the ice melts. However One cube is all ice. Another has air in it.  And the third has  steel ball.

They do not weigh the same.    The answer remains?

The air bubble would mean less water in the glass.  The ball bearing doesn't alter anything. The only difference is that you'll have metal in the glass.
If you intend to swallow it, make sure it fits through the orifice it will have to come out of at a later date!!!!! (or you'll end up like the monkey that swallowed the cue ball)

The monkey swallowing a cue ball sounds like a different kind of science experiment.  Hmm----Was he playing 8 ball or nine ball
Need to know all the important information

You asked for it (courtesy of  SeattleCharger)   ..........


Guy walks into a bar with his pet monkey. He orders a drink, and
while he's drinking, the monkey grabs some olives off the bar and
eats them, then grabs some sliced limes and eats them, then jumps
onto the pool table, grabs the que ball, sticks it in his mouth and
swallows it whole.

The bartender screams at the guy, "Did you see what your monkey
just did?

"The guy says "No, what?"

"He just ate the cue ball off my pool table, whole!"

"Yeah, that doesn't surprise me," replied the guy, "he eats everything
in sight, the little bastard. Sorry, I'll pay for the cue ball and stuff."

He finishes his drink, pays his bill, and pays for the stuff the monkey
ate, then leaves.

Two weeks later he comes back to the bar with his monkey. He
orders a drink, and the monkey starts running around the bar again.

While the man is finishing his drink, the monkey finds a maraschino
cherry on the bar. He grabs it, sticks it up his butt, pulls it out, and
eats it. Then the monkey finds a peanut, and again sticks it up his
butt, pulls it out, and eats it.

The bartender is disgusted. "Did you see what your monkey is doing
now?" he asks. "He stuck a maraschino cherry and then a peanut up
his butt, pulled them out, and ate them!" said the bartender.

"Yeah, that doesn't surprise me," replied the guy. "He still eats
everything in sight, but ever since he had to pass that cue ball, he
measures everything first."




 

I knew something like this was coming

[mrsskip68]

Now, you guys also didnt account for evorporation and condisation from the ice.............but since I got the main question right, what do I win? ?? A DC.com tshirt? Lol!

[Fred]

Now, you guys also didnt account for evorporation and condisation from the ice.............but since I got the main question right, what do I win? ?? A DC.com tshirt? Lol!

Lisa, Lisa, haven't I told you many times..........I'd be happy to be your first prize.

[ws23rt]

Now, you guys also didnt account for evorporation and condisation from the ice.............but since I got the main question right, what do I win? ?? A DC.com tshirt? Lol!

Just knowing you got part of it right is all the glory there is 

If you were to get into evaporation/condensation/and the like this thread would go 12 pages with ease and there would be no happy campers

[Fred]

On the other hand, if we all just let our inhibitions run wild.........there'd be a lot of happy campers.  
I'm sorry, I don't know what's wrong with me today.

[flyinlow]

1 & 2 would be even.

3 would be lower assuming the steel ball was large enough to sink the ice cube originally.

[ws23rt]

1 & 2 would be even.

3 would be lower assuming the steel ball was large enough to sink the ice cube originally.

It is true the extra weight of the steel ball would hold the ice lower until it fell to the bottom. The ice would raise and water level drop accordingly.
The other two examples would not change as the weight of the ice would not change

[Lighthorseman]

Would anything change if one of the ice cubes was painted orange with a 01 on the side? 

[Fred]

The shit that goes on in peoples heads is astounding.  

No wonder we can solve every problem when we all put our heads together.  

[Mopar Nut]

Two heads are better than one.

[Nacho-RT74]

I didn't want to read all replies just in case the final answer was there, but this is my conclusion after use my brain.

every one will be lower than originally when freezed BUT the one with iron ball will be higher than the rest.

the one with the air buble will be the lower of all of course.

reason ? since water expands when freezed, with all glasses freezed at same level ( so same total freezed volume ) the only section of the total volume will never change is the one with the steel ball. The air bubble will dissapear, and the only water freezed will keep that area filled.

metal contracts when freezed too, same as air, but not the same rate than the water expands.

of course everything will be more noticeable or not according of the size of the air bubble and steel ball

[.]

*snip* reason ? since water expands when freezed, with all glasses freezed at same level ( so same total freezed volume ) the only section of the total volume will never change is the one with the steel ball. The air bubble will dissapear, and the only water freezed will keep that area filled. *snip*

I'm afraid you're wrong, here's the logic:

Cup 1: solid ice.
Since water expands when it freezes the ice cubes are lower in density. The part of the ice cube that floats equals the part of volume that would disappear as the ice would melt - because water is more compact then ice.
-> no change in level.

Cup 2: Ice with air
The volume of the ice cube is larger then the actual amount of ice (since the air takes up place aswell) - however the same principal applies here: The air contributes to the overall density of the ice cube - making it even less dense. Hence the ice cube will float even more then its solid counterpart. So the cube is less deep inside the water, making cup 2 filled with more water then cup 1. As the ice melts the air leaves the ice cube and the ice melts. There is less ice to melt then in cup 1, but there needed to be more water in it from the stat to fill the cup to the edge
-> no change in level.

Cup 3: Ball inside the ice
The steel ball increases the density of the overall ice cube, making it sink. as the ice melts it will detach from the ball and go towards the surface. However since the ice was completely under water when you filled the cup in the beginning of the experiment the complete sum of water in your cup is less because the submerged ice took in place for twice the amount of water it would result in when it melts
-> water level drops

[stripedelete]

Would anything change if one of the ice cubes was painted orange with a 01 on the side? 

Not sure.  But I can tell you the one full of Scotch is empty.