69 camaro found

[billfury]

Cold, wet cases: Oklahoma troopers stumble on six bodies in two cars at bottom of lake
By M. Alex Johnson, Staff Writer, NBC News
September 18, 2013, 3:00 am NBCNews.com


Courtesy Elk City Daily News Law enforcement officers examine one of two cars containing skeletal remains found Tuesday at the bottom of Foss Lake in Custer County, Okla.Two decades-old cars containing six skeletons were recovered from a lake in a remote, sparsely populated area of southwestern Oklahoma, officials said Tuesday — potentially solving a pair of cold cases that have bedeviled local authorities for years.

Oklahoma Highway Patrol officials stumbled upon the mud-covered cars — a blue 1969 Chevrolet Camaro and a 1950s-era car — while testing new sonar equipment during a training exercise last week at Foss Lake, near the tiny town of Foss (population: 157) in Custer County, authorities said.

After initially having reported that five bodies were discovered, Custer County Sheriff Bruce Peoples told The Elk City Daily News late Tuesday that a sixth set of remains had been found.

Officials at the scene were able to identify one of the three bodies in the Camaro, but no names will be released until family members are notified, the State Bureau of Investigation and the sheriff's office said.

KFOR-TV State troopers discovered the two cars Tuesday as they were training with new sonar equipment.Trooper George Hoyle, who was driving the boat that located the vehicles Sept. 10, told the Daily News that the two cars were side by side in about 12 feet of water.

"On the first pass, we found both cars," Hoyle said — but officers weren't aware of the remains, and the cars remained at the bottom of the lake until Tuesday.

The Camaro is believed to be associated with the disappearance of three students at Sayre High School: Jimmy Allen Williams 16, Thomas Michael Rios, 18, and Leah Gail Johnson 18. They were last seen on Nov. 20, 1970, in Jimmy's car — a blue 1969 Camaro, which was never found, according to the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System, a bureau of the Justice Department's National Institute of Justice.

The federal database notes speculation at the time that the teens, who'd said they were going to a football game in Elk City, may have detoured to go hunting at Foss Lake, instead.

The second vehicle appears to be associated with the disappearance of a couple last seen in Canute, about 10 miles south of the lake, in the early 1960s, Peoples said. He said he had no further information about that case beyond long-ago-told stories. The missing persons database records no open cases earlier than 1969 in Canute or the surrounding county.

"In 1973, I worked for Beckham and Custer County as a state trooper, and I heard rumors that sometime in the early '60s there were two or three people in a car, and they were last seen in Canute," Peoples told the Elk City newspaper. "They were headed for Foss Lake and never seen again."

[billfury]

69 Camaro was new.I feel bad for the families having to go through this again.

[myk]

Not that I would, but maybe the surviving families can have genuine closure, now...

[Dino]

'no names will be released until family members are notified'  and then they go ahead and give us 3 names....ok

Very sad.  Having to die is bad enough but being murdered and dumped in a lake...

[djcarguy]

  pix looks like 3 or more cars recover??   i didnt read murder or foul play at all//?


    sounds like maybe a sneaker curve bye the lake got a few drivers by surprise for cars to land side by side in the lake. hit water and stun people ,panic and drown?? maybee



  ON a side note low mile like new CAMARO to bee at barrat jacksons autions soon,,yeah ,,tooooo soon ,just trying too look at bright side.been 43 yrs in the lake need a good laugh.. Iam sorry no ,i will   myself.

[Mike DC]

16yo boy with a brand new Camaro. 


Both cars being found right next to each other and the wrecks being 10 years apart?  Could be foul play but my money is on people just sliding off the road at night.  Mopars on original tires didn't handle very well and most other cars of the era handled even worse. 

[billfury]

lets see if this works.

 

[billfury]

I have video on my email,but having a hard time trying to post.

[djcarguy]

  well the back of the old 50es car is damaged   but not front of camaro??   lets see car with 3 people stops to neck at the lake, someone--oaklahoma oaky sees them sneaks up with his big bad hillbilly truck an pushes them into the lake  an tied the doors shut first. well anyone have more info on this event?//  sad they were so young in camaro ,but could be another case young drive an speed??


     i think cops an military should train at more lakes an rivers with this equipment.  was just a few yrs ago they found alot of stolen cars an 1 or more bodies in that river near midwest,damm i forgot now,think kansas or near there..

[Mopar Nut]

That's too bad for the families.

[Bandit72]

Theres a state lake not far from me that was dug in the early 50's, My dad tells me that right after it opened to the public a newly wed couple missed the turn and drove right off into it...they both parished.

[tan top]

    sad for the families , bit of a coincidence they in the same spot , although like what been said  , could of just lost it & come off the road & wrecked , both cars look like they took a hit  




http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/17/20547251-cold-wet-cases-oklahoma-troopers-stumble-on-six-bodies-in-two-cars-at-bottom-of-lake?lite

[Mike DC]

  
IMHO the families would probably be glad the kids were found.  At least they could get some closure.  

These kids have been missing for most of two generations.  I doubt anybody was still holding their breath hoping they would turn up alive.

   

[GOTWING]

this story would make an amazing true story movie although sad. 

[stripedelete]

Like others have said, it's probably one of those wicked turns that sneaks up on you.

Combine that with drugs and or alcohol.  I can imagine 3  guys coming home from the roadhouse one night or 3 high school kids firing up on the way to the game.

They probably hit the drink (no pun intended) at a high speed, provided they were conscious, the drug / alcohol impairment didn't aid in an escape.

It must be a very muddy bottom or they would have been spotted by plane at some point in 50 years.  But, at the same time I grew up around quarries.  We all knew where the cars got pushed over.  Finally, a white one landed on the HUGE under water stack of cars and a "non-local" spotted it.    Pulled cars out for about a week.   They started breaking up badly when they got too the early 50's.   So, the locals my have known there were cars down there.  They just may not have associated them with accidents or the disappearances.  

[bull]

They should have stored that Oklahoma City Plymouth in that lake. It looked about the same as these cars do.

[daveco]

I can't imagine how hard it must have been for the families all these years. To have loved ones simply disappear without a trace would just be horrible.

[Finn]

"NOS 69 camaro hood, perfectly straight, just slight surface rust...Asking $2,000 obi".

But seriously though, cool to see the pictures. I hope it brings the families some closure.

[Finn]

   sad for the families , bit of a coincidence they in the same spot , although like what been said  , could of just lost it & come off the road & wrecked , both cars look like they took a hit  




http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/17/20547251-cold-wet-cases-oklahoma-troopers-stumble-on-six-bodies-in-two-cars-at-bottom-of-lake?lite

In the video the roof on the camaro is no longer intact. Looks like they ripped it off or it caved in.

[JB400]

The Camaro split in half.  Other car looks like a 51 Olds.

[Mopar Nut]

Drowning would be the worst way to die.

[GOTWING]

the news said the road drives straight into the boat ramp ! 

[Baldwinvette77]

wow thats a pretty creepy sight. i know it sounds morbid, but i would like to see those cars in a museum rather than crushed

[GOTWING]

one link I found shows jimmy next to his Camaro when it was new, its blue with white nose stripe.

[Tilar]

one link I found shows jimmy next to his Camaro when it was new, its blue with white nose stripe.

[ws23rt]

It is a sad and somewhat creepy story.   A modern day archaeological find.

Their is a boat launching ramp near where I live that has been used to dump cars for many years. The river channel is deep and still holds many cars some may have remains of the occupants still in them. The local authorities are not moved to spend the cost of bringing them all up until the pile is a boating hazard 

[Mopar Nut]

one link I found shows jimmy next to his Camaro when it was new, its blue with white nose stripe.

[GOTWING]

I also noticed as the hours went on the roof and windshield area is not noticable anymore.

[Todd Wilson]

Theres an article in our local paper about this find in Okiehoma. They say the lake is very murky and 6-12 inches is about all you can see into the water at best. They said its difficult to drive around the lake at night as its easy to go off into the drink even for people who know the area. 1970.........Kids drinkin and smokin in a 69 Camaro out running fast and splash.............


Todd

[tsmithae]

I was curious about the driving into the lake theory and there is a road that leads straight to the boat ramp and it is a possibility (I google mapped it...).

[Mike DC]

  
If you drove straight down a boat ramp, then you'd have to get out pretty far to be 12 feet deep and staying hidden while people launched boats above you for 40 years.  


The front end of that Camaro does not look like it hit the water head-on with much speed.        

[mopar0166]

they should grab a junker and try to debug this further.  It not like we dont have the means to do this typ of experiment in todays world.  im sure you could even do an automated one before an actual. 

[stripedelete]

 
If you drove straight down a boat ramp, then you'd have to get out pretty far to be 12 feet deep and staying hidden while people launched boats above you for 40 years.  


The front end of that Camaro does not look like it hit the water head-on with much speed.        

You would think so, but, most ramps flatten the natural drop.  Especially at a man made lakes.   Anyone trailering during a severe drought can tell you some horror stories.  Once the ramps it straight off.

My guess is they flipped when they came off plane. That would explain damage to top and rear and the absence of a survivor or at least a floater.

[Mike DC]

            
Yeah I could see the drop-off allowing for the cars to stay hidden.

                 

But still, the front end of that Camaro looks pretty straight for a car that hit the water with any real speed IMHO.  

Water is brutally hard once the impact speed gets above the first few MPH.  And that Camaro's front end is as aerodynamically bad as a '68 Charger.  I would think going fast enough to travel a couple of car-lengths in the water would have forcibly ripped the hood upwards at the very least.      

[F8-4life]

I wonder what the camaro looks like under all that mud. Blue w/ strip & under water since a year old.

[polywideblock]

so is it definitely a bad bend in the road or is there the possibility that a serial killer has been undiscovered  in a small town for all these years

[JB400]

           
Yeah I could see the drop-off allowing for the cars to stay hidden.

                 

But still, the front end of that Camaro looks pretty straight for a car that hit the water with any real speed IMHO.  

Water is brutally hard once the impact speed gets above the first few MPH.  And that Camaro's front end is as aerodynamically bad as a '68 Charger.  I would think going fast enough to travel a couple of car-lengths in the water would have forcibly ripped the hood upwards at the very least.      

Take a look at the pic I posted earlier Mike.  I don't think the Camaro went in frontwards, but backwards instead. The trunk lid looks like it's peeled back quite a bit.

[mrsskip68]

I WANT THAT CAMARO GRILL!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( yep, sorry guys im still a camaro chick! But I have tons of love for mopars too!)

[djcarguy]

  grill wont fit 67-or-68  as fur as i no only hood an truck lid will fit first yr camaros. most all of 69 was 1 yr only camaro stuff. SORRY      :eek2:besides it haunted now

[mrsskip68]

Doesnt matter! I WANT IT!   & yes you are correct that it wont fit 67-68's, but I still want that grill!

[TUFCAT]

Take a look at the pic I posted earlier Mike.  I don't think the Camaro went in frontwards, but backwards instead. The trunk lid looks like it's peeled back quite a bit.

From these pictures the rear end doesn't have any damage.  

Probably when it was pulled from the mucky bottom, they attached to the rear body (not the frame) causing the body to twist and bend from years of rust and fatigue.  

Note: the Decklid is still there...and the rear body section wasn't "ripped apart" as shown in later photos.

Pictures with the hood, roof, and decklid removed obviously came later while investigators worked on removing the victims.

[mrsskip68]

Oooih I want that rear bumper too!

[JB400]

Jump on your bicycle and go get it.  

[mrsskip68]

Jump on your bicycle and go get it.  

Go "stroke" yourself! Lol ! 60's Camaros make me happy. Sad that this situation happened for those kids.

[TUFCAT]

Now I'm starting to think this was a Camaro Convertible (but with the top up).  I can't see much of a rear roofline or back window in any of these pictures, and that would explain why the rear body twisted so easily - no roof support.

Check out this photo, the top appears to be white. 

[TUFCAT]

Arrow "A" appears like the convertible roof material has fallen down into the rear.

Arrow "B" shows a large roof gap at the quarter window. A metal roof would not create this gap unless the roof was entirely caved in (or flipped over).

Arrow "B" also shows a convertible body line at the quarter (no c-pillar) with more white convertible roof material.

[JB400]

I hate to debunk your investigation, but it's not a convertible.  Leading evidence, no windshield molding.


I suggested a bicycle because I figured it was too early to ride a broom

[JB400]

Here's your roof gap Tuffy.  On Camaros, there was a strip that was left body color between the windows and the top.

[TUFCAT]

I hate to debunk your investigation, but it's not a convertible.  Leading evidence, no windshield molding.

....and you can make that assumption from the pictures I posted?  

[JB400]

Not just the ones you posted, but what everyone has posted.  There isn't hardly any roof structure on these cars to begin with.  Considering the deterioration of the rest of the car, I say the inner roof structure gave way and allowed the roof to collapse.  The only reason the windshield stayed up was because of the a pillar structure and the glass alone which is also being supported by the firewall.  On the rear of the car, there is very little structure there to support the weight of the roof.  Just look above the wheel arches of the quarters, they collapsed.

[TUFCAT]

Not just the ones you posted, but what everyone has posted.  There isn't hardly any roof structure on these cars to begin with.  Considering the deterioration of the rest of the car, I say the inner roof structure gave way and allowed the roof to collapse.  The only reason the windshield stayed up was because of the a pillar structure and the glass alone which is also being supported by the firewall.  On the rear of the car, there is very little structure there to support the weight of the roof.  Just look above the wheel arches of the quarters, they collapsed.

take a look at these pictures...    Your hardtop theory is possible... but looks like a convertible to me.

[JB400]

Regardless of whether it was a coupe or a convertible, it's hard to tell after the investigators got done with it.

[TUFCAT]

Still looks like a convertible to me...

[TUFCAT]

Damn!!  I hate to conceed this early in the game (especially to you stroker) but some pictures of the actual car just surfaced on the web. Looks you are are right. DAMMIT!  

Modern pictures [#3 and #4] show the vinyl top roofline more clearly

[JB400]

Damn!!  I hate to conceed this early in the game (especially to you stroker) but I some pictures of the actual car just surfaced on the web. Looks you are are right. DAMMIT! 

That's alright Tufcat   We won't rub it in too much 

[Mopar Nut]

 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Damn!!  I hate to conceed this early in the game (especially to you stroker) but I some pictures of the actual car just surfaced on the web. Looks you are are right. DAMMIT!  

You're forgiven. Believe it or not, I made a mistake once.

[Mike DC]

    
I still don't think that Camaro appears to have been going very fast when it hit the water.  The obvious damage could be attributed to decaying underwater and damage done as they dragged it out.  

Maybe the kids were drunk or something but it surprises me that none of them managed to get out of the car before drowning.  It appears the side window glass was up too.  It would have taken valuable seconds for the cabin to fill up and the car to actually go under.    


The kids probably weren't seatbelted in 1970.  That may have played a role.  It wouldn't take much force to slam anyone in the front seats semi/unconscious for a few seconds.  Anyone who might have been in the back seat and still coherent would have struggled to get around them to reach a door or window. 

[TUFCAT]

   
I still don't think that Camaro appears to have been going very fast when it hit the water.  The obvious damage could be attributed to decaying underwater and damage done as they dragged it out.  

Maybe the kids were drunk or something but it surprises me that none of them managed to get out of the car before drowning.  It appears the side window glass was up too.  It would have taken valuable seconds for the cabin to fill up and the car to actually go under.    


The kids probably weren't seatbelted in 1970.  That may have played a role.  It wouldn't take much force to slam anyone in the front seats semi/unconscious for a few seconds.  Anyone who might have been in the back seat and still coherent would have struggled to get around them to reach a door or window. 

To bad Ted Kennedy wasn't driving. 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

To bad Ted Kennedy wasn't driving. 

In the end, Fat Ted eventually got what was coming to him.

[djcarguy]

  So ted could walk away ,sober up an tell everyone what really happened, eventually???   


    or so ted could go down with the chevvvyss,ha ha 69 camaro an 49-50 chebey 4 door???

[TUFCAT]

 So ted could walk away ,sober up an tell everyone what really happened, eventually???  

Exactly! Ted got himself out, hitch-hicked back to the party, changed clothes, called his lawyer ...and....finally, reported it to the police the next morning.

[bill440rt]

Such a shame to those who perished, and their families who have been living in mystery all these years now having to re-live it again. Hopefully for them there is closure.

Mythbusters did a show a while back on this very topic. Drowning in a car filling with water.
They showed that the car needed to be nearly full with water for the pressure to equalize in order to open the door. It was almost impossible to open it halfway under or more.
Once the car starts filling up, I'm sure panic mode sets in and people may not know what to do. Instead, they found relax, wait until the car fills up, then open the door and escape. Most people may not know this.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

  So ted could walk away ,sober up an tell everyone what really happened, eventually???   


   

No, what I meant was that it took nearly 4 decades, but Fat Ted got what was coming to him in the form of brain cancer. Knowing somone who also died from that, I can honestly say that it isn't a pleasant way to go.

[TUFCAT]

"The deceased wore no panties"

— diver John Farrar,  Inquest into the Death of Mary Jo Kopechne, Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Edgartown District Court. New York: EVR Productions, 1970.

I THINK I FOUND THEM!

[GOTWING]

there is also a picture of the camaro being pulled out of the water with the front end coming up out of the water first, they think it could have rolled backwards??

[GOTWING]

one of the family members also stated that Jimmy only had the car 6 days before he went missing.

[F8-4life]

one of the family members also stated that Jimmy only had the car 6 days before he went missing.

Aw man that's even worse, probably out partying.. enjoying his new ride.. such a shame.

[GOTWING]

to find out more info, i went to the local on line newspaper in that town..