1969 Dodge Charger R/T - Just bought, now making it better

[erlendch]

Hi,

I just bought a Charger (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-Charger-R-T-/111134045685?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19e01af5f5#ht_728wt_1182). I didn't really know too much about the model and prices, so wonder if you have any opinions if it is a good deal or not? Paid $28,600 for it. Bought it unseen and had it shipped from Pennsylvania.

It is a 1969 R/T with non-matching numbers. But engine is from 1969 and the same type 440 that was in the car originally. Partially restored over 10 years ago. Body and paint is as straight and shiny as it appears on the pictures. Interior very nice too. No rust. All factory original parts on car, (except: Grant steering wheel/Offenhauser intake/Aluminum valve covers/headrests/HP cam/aftermarket tach/pressure/temp gauges & electronic ignition) including Carter carburetor, PS/PB, air cleaner, and exhaust manifolds are correct for 1969.  

I am also looking to spend some $$ dollar to get it better daily-drive condition. I am using a garage downtown SF, who seems to both love these old muschle cars and know how to work on them. Here is what they suggested:
STEERING GEAR - Remove & Replace - [Includes: Adjust toe-in on Rack & Pinion type gears]
MASTER CYLINDER - Remove & Replace - [Includes Bleed system]
OIL PAN &/OR GASKET - Remove & Replace
SPRAK PLUG WIRE SET - Remove & Replace
REPAIR LOWER RADIATOR SUPPORT
REPLACE SHOCKS ALL
EXHAUST MANIFOLD &/OR GASKET - Remove & Replace
INSTALL DISK BRAKE KIT
INSTALL ELECTRONIC IGNITION
REMOVE AFTER MARKET INSTRUMENTS

And we are looking at around $10k for that. Anything else you would suggest to make it more reliable and simly a better, safer drive?

I also want to get overdrive, to make it more comfortable on the highway. Especially since it alrady have a lower gear ratio. Any advice there? The guys at the garage said the transmission is almost $3k and since a lot of modifications needs to be done the total may go up to $5k. Isn't it cheaper way to do it by modifing existing transmission (its a 727) rather than replacing it?

Since I need to change to 15 inch wheels to fit disc brakes I am getting these wheels (http://www.ebay.com/itm/15x7-15x8-AMERICAN-RACING-MAGNUM-VN500-WHEELS-IN-STOCK-DODGE-CHARGER-1968-1969-/200956341444?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item2ec9ee6cc4&vxp=mtr). The are aluminium and I rather want steel though, to keep it as stock as possible. Anyone know if there are steel wheels just like the originals, but in 15 inch, to be bought anywhere?

Thanks for all advice!
Erlend

Here some pics:

[JB400]

Welcome to the forum Looks like a decent car from the pix provided

[1974dodgecharger]

orgasmic.....


get bigger rims, to fit new disc brakes, and then upgrade suspension and go from there your choice.  power is easy to build....

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Welcome to the board. The car looks great.  

I'd highly recommend getting a firm feel stage 2 or 3 steering box. It will tighten up the wheel and get rid of some of the slop in the steering. Get a good quality shock like bilstein and add subframe connectors along with the rest of your list and you should have a great cruiser. Check out Firm Feel Inc. or hotchkis for suspension parts.

I don't know what kind of trans they recommended but if you want to keep the 727 look into a gear vendors overdrive kit. It bolts onto the back of the 727 and you won't have to modify the floor. It does require that you shorten the driveshaft though.

I see the shop is in S.F. where are you located? I'm down in the San Jose area.

[Dino]

Nice car but $10K for those repairs is a bit insane in my book.

[erlendch]

WHITE AND RED 69: I'm in San Francisco, Portrero Hill. One feedback was that the repair cost were exspensive, kinda ads up when they charge $120 per hour + parts (SF is an exspensive city). Any repair shops here you can recommend? Especially for that gear box kit?

Also looking for a good place to take it to work on some minor spots in the paint.

Thx!

[tan top]

 Hello & welcome   , awesome looking 69 

[myk]

orgasmic.....


get bigger rims, to fit new disc brakes, and then upgrade suspension and go from there your choice.  power is easy to build....

Agreed.  If you want to actually DRIVE this car, do yourself and the other drivers around you a favor and install disc brakes, as well as making sure the suspension is up to the task.  Wheels and tires, what do you like?  These cars have big beautiful bodies, and anything less than 17" looks awkward, IMO.  Ultimately the bigger wheels and tires will help your car handle and stop better which is essential if you actually plan on driving this car.

I would take a close look at the wiring and make sure that it's in OK condition; after 40 years the best days of that car's electrical system are gone.  Personally, I might look into rewiring the car, again depending on what the condition of your wiring is.  As you peruse this website even more you'll probably learn that the original wiring can also cause a tragic electrical fire that can seriously damage the car.

Finally, you might want to consider keeping the aftermarket instruments.  Why you ask?  Again the stock instruments probably aren't accurate, I wouldn't consider them reliable, and when driving a car like this you need to make sure that your car is healthy at all times.  A good compromise is aftermarket gauges placed inside your original dash/gauge cluster.  This way you can have reliable instruments but keep the purists off of your back.

10 grand?  Are you farming out all of the work?  If you're new to the "old car" scene get ready to spend double, triple, quadruple of what you think you have to spend.  If money is tight I would focus on safety and functionality first.  Looks to me like the shop is just itching to "remove and replace" a bunch of stuff-it'd be nice if someone could actually verify that all of this work is even necessary.  Nice car and welcome to the site, 'OP...

[Ghoste]

Nice color.  Congratulations and welcome to the site.  Is it in the 69 Registry?

[WHITE AND RED 69]

WHITE AND RED 69: I'm in San Francisco, Portrero Hill. One feedback was that the repair cost were exspensive, kinda ads up when they charge $120 per hour + parts (SF is an exspensive city). Any repair shops here you can recommend? Especially for that gear box kit?

Also looking for a good place to take it to work on some minor spots in the paint.

Thx!

Yeah, any quality shop in the bay area is going to be a minimum of $100 an hour. I don't know of any local to you that I have had experience with but there are plenty of good shops out there.   

For the steering box, call Firm Feel Inc. They will sell you a new box with the upgrades already done and it's a straight swap for the old one. They will charge a core fee but just send them the old one and they will refund the cost. They sell 3 different stages of the box-stage 1 is stock, stage 2 which is like a modern car, and stage 3 which is very stiff-more towards the race car feel. Whatever shop you go with can do this, just make sure to do it at the same time you are replacing the exhaust manifolds. It will make it a lot easier with them out of the way.

As for a paint shop, check out Gilberts auto body in Hayward. A local guy had his blue 69 charger's body and paint done there and it looks fantastic.

[Daytona R/T SE]

The first thing I would want to know is why were the rear valance seams filled in ?

Welded up ?

Tons of bondo ?

Just trying to do something "custom" ?

This is usually an indication of shoddy workmanship and/or hidden rust issues.

$10 K for that small amount of work is an absolute rip off in my opinion.

Of course, I'm a cheap bastard, and I can do all of the things you listed myself.

[moparfan53]

...Since I need to change to 15 inch wheels to fit disc brakes I am getting these wheels (http://www.ebay.com/itm/15x7-15x8-AMERICAN-RACING-MAGNUM-VN500-WHEELS-IN-STOCK-DODGE-CHARGER-1968-1969-/200956341444?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item2ec9ee6cc4&vxp=mtr). The are aluminium and I rather want steel though, to keep it as stock as possible. Anyone know if there are steel wheels just like the originals, but in 15 inch, to be bought anywhere?

Thanks for all advice!
Erlend

Yes, no problem to get 15" steel ones. There are 2 styles available; the '68 and back with chrome outer rim/no trim ring and the '69 and up with black outer rim with trim ring (Chrysler called it a "road wheel"). As far as I know, only Specialty Wheel has the '69 up style. They also have the other style which is also found at many other places. You can also put trim rings on the '68 style if you want. The appearance difference would be the small gap between the trim ring and inner wheel, one will be black and one will be chrome.

Specialty Wheels;
http://www.specialtywheel.com/product-showcase/mopar.html

Two places of many that sell the '68 "Magnum 500" style;
http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/wheel-vintiques-54-series-magnum-500-chrome-wheels

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?Nty=0&catalogId=10002&Ntk=all&Ne=1%2b2%2b3%2b13%2b1147708%2b1147708&langId=-1&storeId=10001&N=4294964870&Ntt=magnum+500

Do you have a breakdown of parts and labour for items on your $10k list?

Great car!

Congrats on the purchase!

Attached is pic of Specialty Wheels 15x7 with 225/70R15 tire on my Charger.

[moparfan53]

Hi,
I just bought a Charger (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-Charger-R-T-/111134045685?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19e01af5f5#ht_728wt_1182). I didn't really know too much about the model and prices, so wonder if you have any opinions if it is a good deal or not? Paid $28,600 for it. Bought it unseen and had it shipped from Pennsylvania.

I have been following '69 Chargers on ebay for several years. In my opinion, if the car is as solid as it appears in the pics, you got a fairly good deal. It is nice to have the power steering and power brakes. They are not as common as one might think. I have seen many Chargers with manual both. Both options make the car more enjoyable to drive, especially when going from your modern daily driver.

I also like the rocker panel moldings. They are not real rare, but not a common option either.

The color combo is sharp. I like the T3/T5/T7 bronze colors with a black vinyl roof.

In case your interested in production numbers; About 90,000 built with about 20,000 of those being R/T models.
Breakdown here;  http://www.moparmuscle69.com/productionfigures.htm

Congrats again on a great purchase!

[erlendch]

First of all thanks to everyone who answered. Can't believe I got so much response in less than a day. Very excited about the Charger community in this country. I had oldtimers before back in Europe where I am from, but never experienced anything like this.

moparfan53: Thanks for sharing links to steel wheel. I was not happy to put alu rims on, but now I'm a happy camper again. To me the <a href="http://www.specialtywheel.com/product-showcase/mopar/chrysler-road-wheel.html">Road Runner/a> seems to be the one similar to those original 14 inch wheels, am I right? And I am definitely not getting bigger than 15'. To my taste the Charger looks tacky with bigger modern wheels on it. Btw. also thanks for liking the color combo! I couldn't agree more, completely fell in love with it when I first saw the ad on Ebay and knew this was it!

To everyone who think my repairs are exspensive. Well, I don't have time, tool and enough skills to do it myself so gotta do everything at the shop. BUT I do not wanna be ripped off, so happy to share the break down with you and please give your opinion on if they are overcharging or not? He didn't always break out labour and parts, but here is what I got so far:

STEERING GEAR - Remove & Replace - [Includes: Adjust toe-in on Rack & Pinion type gears] - Total $312.
OIL PAN &/OR GASKET - Remove & Replace - Labour 3h: $360. Total $360.
SPRAK PLUG WIRE SET - Remove & Replace - Total $240.
REPAIR LOWER RADIATOR SUPPORT - Labour 3h: $360.
REPLACE SHOCKS ALL - Parts and Labour $1,500. Totoal $1,500.
EXHAUST MANIFOLD &/OR GASKET - Remove & Replace - Exhaust Gasket: 50, labour 3h: $360. Total $410.
INSTALL DISK BRAKE KIT - Brakes: $1,600, labour 8h: $960. Total $2,560.
MASTER CYLINDER - Remove & Replace - [Includes Bleed system] - Labour 2h: $120. Total $120.
WHEELS & TIRES - Parts: $1,500. Total $1,500.
INSTALL ELECTRONIC IGNITION - Labour and parts: $1,800
REMOVE AFTER MARKET INSTRUMENTS - Labour 1h: $120. Total $120.
TOTAL: $9,282.

In addition comes $380 to send the radio away to make it all modern on the inside, with mp3 input n stuff, while still looking like the original. And speakers in the back. I want the speakers not to be visible, but hidden under the original hatrack placement. Any recommendations there?

Repair guy showed me everything under the car and explain what needed to be done. I could clearly see how bearings were worn out, oil leaks, manifold leak etc., so don't think he is making this up.

WHITE AND RED 69: I will definitely look into Gear Vendors overdrive kit, thanks for tip!

myk: Aftermarket gauges underneath the glove department gotta go, so ugly and trying to keep the car stock. Do you guys think it is worth trying to put the exising ones back in use or safer just to go for <a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-1968-70-DODGE-CHARGER-RESTORED-RALLYE-GAUGE-CLUSTER-W-TIC-TOC-TACH-B-BODY-/310705883977?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4857838b49&vxp=mtrl">This set/a>. Even has a Tic Toc Tach. Any one have experience with this vendor?

Ghoste: No idea if it is in the registry. I sent you a private msg.

Daytona R/T SE: No idea regarding Daytona R/T SE the rear valance being filled in. I'll share some hig res close up pics later.

[myk]

When I'm driving my Charger I like to know how its life signs; yes, gauges hanging underneath the dash are unattractive, which is why I recommend aftermarket gauges in your original dash so you know if you're rolling straight or are about to have an explosion, while maintaining the factory aesthetics. 

[erlendch]

Hey Myk, agreed that you dont wanna gamle with not being able to see how the car is doing. What you think of just getting these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-1968-70-DODGE-CHARGER-RESTORED-RALLYE-GAUGE-CLUSTER-W-TIC-TOC-TACH-B-BODY-/310705883977?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4857838b49&vxp=mtrl

[myk]

Man that's a beautiful piece.  If you're intent on keeping the original dash and gauges then I guess that'd be one way to go.  Only issue is I'm not sure if you're getting hosed on the price or not; it may be cheaper just to have your original dash and gauges restored?  Someone here will chime in on that...

[Generalkiwi]

Wow, that hourly rate is scary!  .....in NZ i'm getting nearly 3 hours shop work for the price of your one....but then again you don't have to ship parts out so far and pay import costs, so i guess its all relative.

Your car looks really nice though!!....i did look at that car when it was for sale on ebay, but i was put off by the fact the guy selling it had no feedback at all. I'm glad to hear he was honest and you got the deal done ok mate.

Kiwi

[fy469rtse]

Welcome and very nice car,
Just reading your breakdown on costs
1800 for shockers, most of those prices seem over the top, check the prices on line summit , manici racing
I would hunt around for some other shops,
Do some online shopping for a comparison,
Stainless steel brakes for an upgrade, while you talking to them , ask for a recommended installer,
Price ignition leads your self, think half to an hour at some one taking there time to fit, go to other shops and see if they come up with the same items that need replacing, how does the car drive and stop, being drum brakes not great, we get spoiled in modern cars and expect these cars to be similar, not saying you can't get them close to modern cars , again checks prices for your parts and make your own mind up, my advise get getting estimates and stay away from the Ferrari dealership, it's an old dodge

[Dino]

I'm from Europe as well and let me tell you, those prices would be high even over there.  Oh and 3 hours for an oil pan and gasket?  $1500 to replace shocks which takes what?  An hour if you don't know what you're doing?  $100/ shock if you really want the top notch stuff.  That's $500 right there and that's still high.

You are being asked to grab your ankles and don't move.

It's a very nice car and I know you will be very happy with it but have you driven it as is?  Really they don't need all that much work to be reliable daily cars. 

Maybe some local members can help you out with some of the work, you do not have to have much talent to do most of the work on that list and many of us can do that stuff blind folded.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

WOW! I thought the 10 grand included the transmission work. A couple of those jobs they are way overpriced. $1500 for shocks! You could get a set of Bilsteins for $400 and its a 2 hour job while drinking beer. $1800 for ignition work? Kits are $250-350 and it's only a couple hours of install. I'd check around with some other shops and try to find one that knows Mopars.

Best thing to do is tackle as much as you are comfortable with. Don't pay the shop to do stuff like change the spark plug wires and removing the aftermarket gauges. It's all very simple to do and can be done easily.

As far as your gauges, do they all work? If so just send them off to someone who can restore them to look new and have them recalibrated. Redline gauge works here in California does excellent work and has a quick turnaround time. The one problem I see with buying the ebay gauges is it will be tough to get the rest of the dash bezels to match unless the seller uses reproduction bezels. It might actually be cheaper to buy all new bezels and have your gauges repaired. Are you wanting to add a tach or just keep the clock?

[myk]

One of the reasons why I lost so much money and then ultimately interest in the car was because I didn't know how to work on cars, so I had to keep relying on shops to do EVERYTHING; I can't even begin to calculate how much I money I blew on shops.  'OP try and learn how to do some of the simple things like changing your spark plugs, fluids, etc.  At one point I couldn't tell the difference between a tit and a differential but I forced myself to learn; within months I was installing my own electronic ignition, performing tune-ups, etc.  It really isn't that difficult and the rewards are priceless.  Keep in mind that we'll always be here to guide you through just about anything Charger related...

[Dino]

One of the reasons why I lost so much money and then ultimately interest in the car was because I didn't know how to work on cars, so I had to keep relying on shops to do EVERYTHING; I can't even begin to calculate how much I money I blew on shops.  'OP try and learn how to do some of the simple things like changing your spark plugs, fluids, etc.  At one point I couldn't tell the difference between a tit and a differential but I forced myself to learn; within months I was installing my own electronic ignition, performing tune-ups, etc.  It really isn't that difficult and the rewards are priceless.  Keep in mind that we'll always be here to guide you through just about anything Charger related...

Well said, except about the tit, that's just scary.   

But oh so true, with any car it is recommended to know the basics in case something happens.  With an old car like this, it is more than recommended to know the basics.  You won't always be able to call for help when the car breaks down and it may be a very easy fix when you know what to look for.

Heck you could take a basic mechanics course and get much covered.

I learn as I go.  I was trained in auto body many years ago but never really did any mechanical or electrical, the latter now starting to become my favorite.  Once I was over the fear of actually removing wiring looms, it became a lot of fun and I'm enjoying doing these upgrades.

[myk]

One of the reasons why I lost so much money and then ultimately interest in the car was because I didn't know how to work on cars, so I had to keep relying on shops to do EVERYTHING; I can't even begin to calculate how much I money I blew on shops.  'OP try and learn how to do some of the simple things like changing your spark plugs, fluids, etc.  At one point I couldn't tell the difference between a tit and a differential but I forced myself to learn; within months I was installing my own electronic ignition, performing tune-ups, etc.  It really isn't that difficult and the rewards are priceless.  Keep in mind that we'll always be here to guide you through just about anything Charger related...

Well said, except about the tit, that's just scary.   

But oh so true, with any car it is recommended to know the basics in case something happens.  With an old car like this, it is more than recommended to know the basics.  You won't always be able to call for help when the car breaks down and it may be a very easy fix when you know what to look for.

Heck you could take a basic mechanics course and get much covered.

I learn as I go.  I was trained in auto body many years ago but never really did any mechanical or electrical, the latter now starting to become my favorite.  Once I was over the fear of actually removing wiring looms, it became a lot of fun and I'm enjoying doing these upgrades.

Hmm...I never did figure out the tit stuff; I kept looking on ebay for a shop manual but never found it LOL...

Oh that reminds me; 'OP buy yourself a reproduction shop manual on 'cd.  Even if you don't ever figure out how to rebuild a 426 Hemi or a Dana 60, it can still guide you on a variety of other repairs/service procedures so you can at least have an educated guess as to what those shops are talking about when they say you need this, that or the other thing...

[v21hemicharger]

You need to run from that shop.  I'd check into the Mopar Club  Mopar Alley and join.  Talk to a few members who can steer you to someone that wont hose you.  Those shock and ignition quotes are insane.  And the brakes aren't far from insanity.  Bring your $10k up to my shop and we can have it done in a weekend.  

BTW nice color