Negative battery cable

[Dino]

I need to replace mine.  I don't need anything correct, just something good.  I have a 71 440 in my 69 and have the pigtail on the negative going to the rad support.  I know it's not stock for a 69.  The battery cable runs to the power steering pump bracket bolt.  The a/c compressor and intake are aftermarket and I like where the cable is now.  Then there's the ground strap from the ps rear intake manifold bolt to firewall.  What gauge are these all supposed to be?

Is it better to have that 3rd ground pigtail or can I omit it?

Also I need a quick disconnect, are any of these any good or others hat are recommended?

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/10397/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710653247&catargetid=1784155608&cadevice=c&&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CP_OvvGXvbkCFUxgMgodBVoA2w
http://compare.ebay.com/like/370737008184?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

And what for those memorable occasions when smoke comes bellowing into the cab? What's a good interior mounted battery kill switch?  Something that's not easily tripped by accident.  Unless it's huge any switch should be easily hidden but within reach.

[A383Wing]

NAPA has decent cables...probably right around the corner.

My 66's have only the main cable from battery to engine. Then there is a 10ga ground strap from rear of engine to firewall.

Unless you are going for a 100% resto, a few  more grounds will not hurt anything...I did an extra one from battery to rad support on my car

[MaximRecoil]

The best battery cables are the ones you make yourself, or have them made somewhere (such as your local autoparts store).

Get a tinned copper crimp-on battery terminal, like so - link, a tinned closed-end copper ring terminal (lug), like so - link, a section of at least 2 AWG battery cable, and some large heat shrink tubing (3M is the best, especially their thick wall adhesive-lined stuff).

Both of my local autoparts stores have battery lug crimpers (like so - link), and they sell battery cable and the crimp-on terminals, and they will crimp the terminals on for you. They may not sell large enough heat shrink tubing though, so bring your own.

The heat shrink tubing, especially the adhesive-lined stuff, will make an airtight seal between the crimped on terminals and the battery cable's insulation. The solid copper terminal that clamps to your battery post is much tougher than the typical lead alloy terminals that most premade battery cables have (not to mention it is a far better electrical conductor), which means it will stand up to the wear and tear of wrenching and prying that tends to happen to battery terminals after being removed several times and/or having booster cable alligator clips digging into them.

Thoroughly coat your battery posts and cable terminals with grease, and you'll never have to worry about it again, it will last forever.

By the way, those links are just examples; you'd need to get the right size terminals for your application of course.  

As for an interior battery kill switch, that would be quite a job. The only practical way to do it is to have a remote control of some sort in the interior which operates a switch mounted near the battery. The remote control could be a push/pull cable type mechanism used in conjuction with a mechanical switch mounted near the battery for the battery kill switch, or it could be an interior-mounted electrical switch used in conjuction with a high current solenoid (such as the type of solenoids that are used on starters) mounted near the battery for the battery kill switch, if you could find a normally-closed one that is.

[JB400]

More better yet, is to get a cable with the ends molded onto the cables like what comes factory.  There is less likely a chance of corrosion getting between the crimped connection and the cable, even with heat shrink tubing.  If a crimped connection is the only available option, then a marine style is preferred due to being able to clean the ends is easier.

[MaximRecoil]

More better yet, is to get a cable with the ends molded onto the cables like what comes factory.  There is less likely a chance of corrosion getting between the crimped connection and the cable, even with heat shrink tubing.

Impossible with 3M adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing. Additionally, corrosion can never actually get inside a proper crimp anyway, because a proper crimp is airtight in and of itself. The only thing the heat shrink tubing is for is to keep corrosion off the small section of exposed-to-air wire strands between where the back of the terminal ends and the insulation starts.

And regarding molded ends on factory-style battery cables, the molded end = lead, which = crap.

So explain how a terminal which has much higher electrical resistance and is far less durable is "more better yet".

If a crimped connection is the only available option, then a marine style is preferred due to being able to clean the ends is easier.

Huh? This is a "marine" crimp-on battery terminal - link. It is no different than what I linked to, or what you can buy at the local autoparts store if you ask at the counter. Also, you don't need to clean them. That is what the grease is for. Grease displaces the air and keeps it out; no air, no corrosion.

[JB400]

More better yet, is to get a cable with the ends molded onto the cables like what comes factory.  There is less likely a chance of corrosion getting between the crimped connection and the cable, even with heat shrink tubing.

Impossible with 3M adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing. Additionally, corrosion can never actually get inside a proper crimp anyway, because a proper crimp is airtight in and of itself. The only thing the heat shrink tubing is for is to keep corrosion off the small section of exposed-to-air wire strands between where the back of the terminal ends and the insulation starts. Anything is possible and matter of fact, confirmed.  I've had to replace several connectors that anyone would consider proper because of them getting corrosion.  Furthermore, a crimp is not airtight.  It is compression connector.  There is no molecular bonding.  If you want an airtight connection, either mold your connectors on your wires, or solder your connectors on to the wire.

And regarding molded ends on factory-style battery cables, the molded end = lead, which = crap.Just an opinion. If you want the best, pony up for gold.

So explain how a terminal which has much higher electrical resistance and is far less durable is "more better yet".  Already did.

If a crimped connection is the only available option, then a marine style is preferred due to being able to clean the ends is easier.

Huh? This is a "marine" crimp-on battery terminal - link. It is no different than what I linked to, or what you can buy at the local autoparts store if you ask at the counter. Also, you don't need to clean them. That is what the grease is for. Grease displaces the air and keeps it out; no air, no corrosion. All I did was give it a proper name.  In other words, I agree with you Your wish to debate an agreement puzzles me.  Most people would be enthused to know that another person agrees with them.  And yes, you need to clean your battery terminals, even when grease is applied.  Grease does break down over time and needs to be reapplied.

[MaximRecoil]

Anything is possible and matter of fact, confirmed.  I've had to replace several connectors that anyone would consider proper because of them getting corrosion.

Do you even know what adhesive-lined heat-shrink tubing is?

http://www.meyette.us/splices-heatshrinked.jpg

See the adhesive that seeped out and hardened around the ends of the heat shrink? That adhesive lines the entire inner wall of the heat shrink tubing, and is activated with heat, and if you get 3M, they make the best adhesives around, along with the best of pretty much everything around.

How exactly is air going to get in there?

Your anecdote is vague. You didn't specify the type of connector, how it was attached to the cable, whether or not there was heat shrink tubing, and if so, what type (adhesive-lined? brand?).

Furthermore, a crimp is not airtight.

Yes, it is. Do you really think I just pulled that claim out of thin air?

It is compression connector.  There is no molecular bonding.

First of all, molecular bonding isn't necessary in order for something to be airtight. Do you think there is molecular bonding with various seals and gaskets that are commonly used for airtight seals? How about in a shut-off valve for gas, such as on an oxygen tank? How about when you slide rubber vacuum hoses onto vacuum outlets on your engine?

Secondly, a proper crimp results in a cold weld which is airtight.

If you want an airtight connection, either mold your connectors on your wires, or solder your connectors on to the wire.

Or properly crimp them, like the factory did on every non-lead terminal in your car (which means all of them except for the battery post clamps, because you can't effectively crimp a soft crappy metal like lead, though it is nice and cheap). See above.

Just an opinion. If you want the best, pony up for gold.

No, gold isn't the best; it is only about 70% as conductive as copper (and lead is only 7% as conductive as copper). Gold is also not as tough as copper. Its primary benefit for electrical connections is its high resistance to corrosion, but coating anything with grease or otherwise preventing air from getting to it accomplishes corrosion resistance with any metal. In small, delicate electrical contacts where grease would gum up the works, gold or gold-plated contacts make perfect sense.

So explain how a terminal which has much higher electrical resistance and is far less durable is "more better yet".

Already did.

No you haven't, not legitimately anyway; i.e., your claim that a proper crimp is not airtight is false, as is your claim that corrosion is somehow going to happen under 3M adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing.

All I did was give it a proper name.  In other words, I agree with you Your wish to debate an agreement puzzles me.  Most people would be enthused to know that another person agrees with them.

This is an interesting attempt at a "save". And no, it is not a "proper" name; "marine" is often just marketing lingo, you know, like when you take ordinary tinned copper terminals that you can buy at any autoparts store and call them "marine".

And yes, you need to clean your battery terminals, even when grease is applied.  Grease does break down over time and needs to be reapplied.

First of all, reapplying grease isn't "cleaning", and secondly, the type of grease that is normally used on electrical connections (dielectric) is silicone-based, and it doesn't just automatically break down due to the passage of time. If solvents are getting sprayed on it or something, then yes, it will break down or be removed, but that doesn't happen under normal conditions to battery terminals.  

[JB400]

 

Oh, you said something. 

[MaximRecoil]

Oh, you said something. 

Your tacit concession is noted.

[JB400]

Oh, you said something.  

Your tacit concession is noted.

Tough crowd.  No sense of humor.


Whatever works for you Maxim is fine with me.  I'll stick with what works for me.   Who cares whose right or wrong?

[Fred]

Oh, you said something.  

Your tacit concession is noted.

Tough crowd.  No sense of humor.


Whatever works for you Maxim is fine with me.  I'll stick with what works for me.  Who cares whose right or wrong?

Are we having a contest?  Can anyone compete?  Are opinions allowed? Or are we sticking to facts?

[Dino]

Thanks guys, try not to fight, it's too early.   

This is what I had in mind for the battery cable:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=97

I'd get a black 2' long cable with a negative battery terminal on one end and a 3/8" lug on the other.

For the alternator upgrade I'm using this:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=95

6' of red cable with a 1/4" lug on one end and a 5/16" lug on the other.

This is from the website:
If you don't have the time or tools to make your own cables, Let us do it for you. We now offer cables professionally made and ready to install. All Marine cables are made from Type III stranded, Tin plated copper with a jacket resistant to moisture, oil, chemicals, gasoline fuel and excellent abrasion resistance. Designed to meet SAE, ABYC, UL and Coast Guard requirements, 600 volts, 105°C dry, 75°C wet. Safety standards for electrical and gasoline fuel systems CFR 33 Part 183.(BC-5W2). Lugs are crimped and covered with adhesive dual-wall heat shrink. If you need a cable made longer than 40 feet, just email us and we will make it.

My positive battery cable is in good shape and I really don't want to tackle that part of the harness right now but it does have the lead terminal on there.  I'll see if I can crimp a new one on there.

I do have a bunch of the adhesive marine type tubing at home, not sure if I have 2 ga though.  What is the standard battery cable size for a stock Charger anyway?

[bill440rt]

Dino,
I simply use one of those "twist" style battery disconnects, the kind with the green knob on top. Get a good one, there are cheapy styles I've seen on eBay.
I've been using same twist off on my '68 going on 15 years now, no problems.

I got a set of battery cables from this guy for my '69:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-68-69-DODGE-CHARGER-CORONET-BATTERY-CABLES-/251336142142?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a84cd2d3e&vxp=mtr
I think he used to go by a different seller name.

I've used original style battery cables on all my cars for years, never had to replace one from going bad.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just sharing my experience.

[MaximRecoil]

Thanks guys, try not to fight, it's too early.  

This is what I had in mind for the battery cable:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=97

I'd get a black 2' long cable with a negative battery terminal on one end and a 3/8" lug on the other.

Based on their description of how they make cables, they do it right, and that saves you the hassle of sourcing each component you need and finding someone to crimp the terminals.

For the alternator upgrade I'm using this:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=95

6' of red cable with a 1/4" lug on one end and a 5/16" lug on the other.

It is 6 feet in your car from the alternator stud to the starter relay stud? It was less than 5 feet in my '69 if I remember right, routed along the passenger side valley between the valve cover and the intake manifold, then along the firewall to the starter relay stud. In any event, since you're getting the cable with a 1/4" hole lug on one end (the size that fits the alternator output stud) and a 5/16" hole lug on the end (the size that fits on the starter relay stud), it seems that you plan to wire directly from the alternator to the starter relay stud without having a fusible link or fuse holder in there?  

I do have a bunch of the adhesive marine type tubing at home, not sure if I have 2 ga though.  What is the standard battery cable size for a stock Charger anyway?

I still have the stock battery cables in my '69 (though I crimped tinned copper battery terminals onto them, to replace the crappy lead gas station terminals that some previous owner had put on them), and they appear to be 2 gauge. They seem to be bigger than 4 gauge, I doubt they are 1 gauge, and they are definitely smaller than 1/0 gauge. The battery terminals that I crimped on were sized for 2 gauge wire and they were a good fit. Keep in mind that actual wire sizes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, so one company's 4 gauge may be another company's 2 gauge (or even more drastic in some cases).

By the way, if you wanted to upgrade your battery cables over the stock size you could go to e.g. 1/0 gauge cable for both positive and negative. They would have less resistance than 4 or 2 gauge cables, which may make your engine start a little quicker. I would go with 1/0 gauge if I ever made completely new battery cables for my car.  

[MaximRecoil]

I've used original style battery cables on all my cars for years, never had to replace one from going bad.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just sharing my experience.

In my car, the original molded-on lead terminals were long gone when I got it, replaced with cheap lead terminals like you see hanging on the wall in a gas station, so the original terminals most likely failed, assuming they weren't cut off and replaced just for the fun of it. I've had several lead terminals, both the gas station type and the molded on type, break or crack while tightening them to the battery post. Another annoying thing about lead terminals is the ridge that's supposed to keep the bolt from turning while you tighten the nut will easily round off, making it so you need two wrenches to tighten the terminal down, and the bolt head end is hard to get a wrench on, because you weren't supposed to need a wrench, because that (now rounded off) ridge was supposed to keep it from turning. Copper terminals, being much tougher, don't have that problem.

Other things that easily damage lead terminals include the teeth on booster cable alligator clamps, and screwdrivers or other prying tools sometimes needed to spread them in order to get them off the battery post.

[JB400]

You do realize that battery terminal bolts are suppose to be just snugged and not torqued to 300 ft. lbs ?


Please note:  The last number is an exaggeration and not to be taken seriously.  I think you're way over tightening your previous battery terminals  and/or using the wrong size terminal.  It would explain why you're cracking your terminals and stripping out the bolt clamps.


I suppose I'll get a book to read now.

[MaximRecoil]

You do realize that battery terminal bolts are suppose to be just snugged and not torqued to 300 ft. lbs ?

For a high current electrical connection, the tighter the better. This is why crimps are so tight that it results in a cold weld. Lead doesn't cut the mustard, but that's okay, because copper does, and copper terminals are readily available.

Please note:  The last number is an exaggeration and not to be taken seriously.  I think you're way over tightening your previous battery terminals  and/or using the wrong size terminal.  It would explain why you're cracking your terminals and stripping out the bolts.

No, I don't use the wrong size terminal, and I've never stripped a battery terminal bolt. The bolts are steel. They aren't the problem; the soft lead is the problem. I tighten with a standard length combination wrench until it is tight. I don't strain or lean on it to get it "tight". Anything that can't stand up to a normal amount of tightening that would be appropriate for a bolt with a half-inch nut is junk and needs to be replaced with something that can. Copper can, and you get ~14 times the electrical conductivity of lead in the process. You don't think that lead is used for some battery terminals because it is better than copper, do you? It is definitely cheaper than copper.

[bill440rt]

OK, so some prefer lead, the other copper. Case closed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-k5J4RxQdE

Dino, let us know how you make out. 

[MaximRecoil]

OK, so some prefer lead, the other copper. Case closed.

Copper is objectively better than lead, with regard to performance, for the application of a battery terminal clamp, regardless of what people prefer. The main requirement of the application is to conduct high current electricity; copper conducts electricity ~14 times better than lead. Another requirement is durability; copper is far more durable than lead. Both of those things are facts.

The only advantage lead has over copper in this application is price; lead is far cheaper, and that price difference typically benefits the manufacturer a lot more than it does the customer. That of course has nothing to do with performance.

[Dino]

MaximRecoil, the alternator to starter relay length is about 5' with room for a bend or two.  The guy that makes those cables does not have a maxi fuse holder, although I will ask to be sure, so my plan was to get 6 feet so I could cut the cable and install the fuse holder myself.  That way the ends are still done properly.  I also measured 6 feet to loop down behind the alternator if I have to.  If the guy can install the fuse holder then I will get a total length of 5'.

I'll have to think about what to do with the battery cables so I'll keep you guys posted.

[Back N Black]

MaximRecoil and Stroker400 wedge your acting like 10 year old girls!

[MaximRecoil]

MaximRecoil, the alternator to starter relay length is about 5' with room for a bend or two.  The guy that makes those cables does not have a maxi fuse holder, although I will ask to be sure, so my plan was to get 6 feet so I could cut the cable and install the fuse holder myself.  That way the ends are still done properly.  I also measured 6 feet to loop down behind the alternator if I have to.  If the guy can install the fuse holder then I will get a total length of 5'.

I'll have to think about what to do with the battery cables so I'll keep you guys posted.

I see. The fuse holder (or fusible link) would normally be connected directly to the starter relay stud, but it won't really make a difference if you do it as you described. You should place the fuse holder as close to the starter relay end of the wire as you can though.

Better yet, you could not fuse that alternator to starter relay cable at all, and instead place a fuse on the battery post end of the factory 8 gauge wire that runs from the starter relay to the positive battery terminal. That way, there is no unprotected section of the two linked charging wires that combine to form the battery charging circuit. By placing the fuse at the starter relay, you still have that 8 gauge factory wire running from the starter relay to the battery which is unprotected. If a dead short happened on that wire, it could start a fire.

There should have been a fusible link or fuse there from the factory in the first place, but there wasn't.

MaximRecoil and Stroker400 wedge your acting like 10 year old girls!

Yes, because 10-year-old girls routinely debate the technical merits of various types of battery cable construction.

[Dino]

MaximRecoil, the alternator to starter relay length is about 5' with room for a bend or two.  The guy that makes those cables does not have a maxi fuse holder, although I will ask to be sure, so my plan was to get 6 feet so I could cut the cable and install the fuse holder myself.  That way the ends are still done properly.  I also measured 6 feet to loop down behind the alternator if I have to.  If the guy can install the fuse holder then I will get a total length of 5'.

I'll have to think about what to do with the battery cables so I'll keep you guys posted.

I see. The fuse holder (or fusible link) would normally be connected directly to the starter relay stud, but it won't really make a difference if you do it as you described. You should place the fuse holder as close to the starter relay end of the wire as you can though.

Better yet, you could not fuse that alternator to starter relay cable at all, and instead place a fuse on the battery post end of the factory 8 gauge cable that runs from the starter relay to the positive battery terminal. That way, there is no unprotected section of the two linked charging wires that combine to form the battery charging circuit. By placing the fuse at the starter relay, you still have that 8 gauge factory wire running from the starter relay to the battery which is unprotected. If a dead short happened on that wire, it could start a fire.

There should have been a fusible link or fuse there from the factory in the first place, but there wasn't.

You're right, there's only one fusible link on there and it's not going to the battery.  Hmm...so if I get this right, IF something goes wrong, the fuse between relay and battery will take the load and the cable between relay and alt is unaffected.  If something goes wrong while the fuse is between starter relay and alt then that cable is protected but I could still lose the 8 ga wire.?

[MaximRecoil]

You're right, there's only one fusible link on there and it's not going to the battery.  Hmm...so if I get this right, IF something goes wrong, the fuse between relay and battery will take the load and the cable between relay and alt is unaffected.  If something goes wrong while the fuse is between starter relay and alt then that cable is protected but I could still lose the 8 ga wire.?

If you get a dead short on the cable between the alternator and starter relay (which is the new one you're planning to install with a fuse on the starter relay end), the current will pull from the point of the dead short to the battery, which will pass through the fuse you installed and blow it, thus preventing a fire.

However, if you get a dead short on that factory 8 gauge wire between the starter relay and battery, there is no fuse between those two points, and because that 8 gauge wire will suddenly be called upon to handle ~900 amps, it will melt the wire and possibly start a fire.

Now, the new wire that you are adding between the alternator and the starter relay will be joined at the starter relay stud with the factory 8 gauge wire that goes from the starter relay stud to the battery, so these two wires effectively become one wire. So if you just put one fuse or fusible link at the battery end of that factory 8 gauge wire, then it protects the whole wire (i.e., the two wires that are effectively one wire), all the way from the alternator to the battery, no matter where a dead short may occur along that path.

As I said, the factory should have protected that 8 gauge starter relay to battery wire with a fusible link or fuse in the first place; it was bad practice not to do so.

[Dino]

You're right, there's only one fusible link on there and it's not going to the battery.  Hmm...so if I get this right, IF something goes wrong, the fuse between relay and battery will take the load and the cable between relay and alt is unaffected.  If something goes wrong while the fuse is between starter relay and alt then that cable is protected but I could still lose the 8 ga wire.?

If you get a dead short on the cable between the alternator and starter relay (which is the new one you're planning to install with a fuse on the starter relay end), the current will pull from the point of the dead short to the battery, which will pass through the fuse you installed and blow it, thus preventing a fire.

However, if you get a dead short on that factory 8 gauge wire between the starter relay and battery, there is no fuse between those two points, and because that 8 gauge wire will suddenly be called upon to handle ~900 amps, it will melt the wire and possibly start a fire.

Now, the new wire that you are adding between the alternator and the starter relay will be joined at the starter relay stud with the factory 8 gauge wire that goes from the starter relay stud to the battery, so these two wires effectively become one wire. So if you just put one fuse or fusible link at the battery end of that factory 8 gauge wire, then it protects the whole wire (i.e., the two wires that are effectively one wire), all the way from the alternator to the battery, no matter where a dead short may occur along that path.

As I said, the factory should have protected that 8 gauge starter relay to battery wire with a fusible link or fuse in the first place; it was bad practice not to do so.

Now I understand, thanks a bunch buddy!      

[JB400]

Sorry Dino, no additional input from me on this issue unless there's more questions.

MaximRecoil and Stroker400 wedge your acting like 10 year old girls!

I will admit that I agree with you.  I'll be polite and not give my full opinion on this matter.  Whether my shadow agrees or disagrees, the world may never know.

[MaximRecoil]

By the way, I made some new battery cables today for my '69, because the positive cable was frayed down by the starter terminal. I'm almost certain that the original cables were 4 gauge rather than 2 gauge like I previously thought (and my cables were definitely original; they had the factory dual rubber boot/spacer/insulator thing down on the starter end).

I used some 1/0 gauge battery cable that I pulled out of a GMC schoolbus in the junkyard; I cut them to the right length and crimped on new copper battery post clamps and lugs. My car has wimpy battery cables no longer.

[Dino]

Thanks Stroker but I think I'm good.   

Maxim I was going with the 2 gauge cables but I'll look into the 1 gauge.  I don't have time to go looking at junkyards unfortunately but the site I linked has pretty decent prices so they can make them for me.

You have convinced me to remove every single wire out of the engine bay so I'll replace all battery cables.  Might as well get it over with!

[Dino]

Would anyone happen to know the exact lengths of the positive cables?  It'll be a while before I can remove mine and I'd like to order the new ones.

[MaximRecoil]

Thanks Stroker but I think I'm good.   

Maxim I was going with the 2 gauge cables but I'll look into the 1 gauge.  I don't have time to go looking at junkyards unfortunately but the site I linked has pretty decent prices so they can make them for me.

You have convinced me to remove every single wire out of the engine bay so I'll replace all battery cables.  Might as well get it over with!

Yeah, new cable from that site you linked to is better than old battery cable from a junkyard anyway, in that the insulation is brand new and that particular cable they sell is made up of very fine strands, so it is much more flexible than standard battery cable, making it easier to route.

2 gauge is plenty by the way; even 4 gauge works, given that that was the factory size. 1 gauge or 1/0 gauge (1/0 = 0 gauge, 1 size bigger than 1 gauge) will of course have lower resistance. It is just a matter of how you want to do things.

I don't know what the factory length of the cables was, because mine had been cut off by a previous owner in order to install those cheap lead gas station style terminals, and then cut off again by me to crimp on copper terminals. "Bill440rt" linked to some reproduction factory-style 4 gauge cables on eBay, and in the description it says:

IT HAS THE CORRECT CLOTH TAPE AND IS 43" LONG. THE NEGATIVE CABLE IS A REPRODUCTION  4 GAUGE 24" LONG CABLE.

I don't know if he got those measurements right or not. I cut my cables that I made yesterday to 3' for the positive and 1.5' for the negative, and they were more than long enough.

[Dino]

Thanks Stroker but I think I'm good.   

Maxim I was going with the 2 gauge cables but I'll look into the 1 gauge.  I don't have time to go looking at junkyards unfortunately but the site I linked has pretty decent prices so they can make them for me.

You have convinced me to remove every single wire out of the engine bay so I'll replace all battery cables.  Might as well get it over with!

Yeah, new cable from that site you linked to is better than old battery cable from a junkyard anyway, in that the insulation is brand new and that particular cable they sell is made up of very fine strands, so it is much more flexible than standard battery cable, making it easier to route.

2 gauge is plenty by the way; even 4 gauge works, given that that was the factory size. 1 gauge or 1/0 gauge (1/0 = 0 gauge, 1 size bigger than 1 gauge) will of course have lower resistance. It is just a matter of how you want to do things.

I don't know what the factory length of the cables was, because mine had been cut off by a previous owner in order to install those cheap lead gas station style terminals, and then cut off again by me to crimp on copper terminals. "Bill440rt" linked to some reproduction factory-style 4 gauge cables on eBay, and in the description it says:

IT HAS THE CORRECT CLOTH TAPE AND IS 43" LONG. THE NEGATIVE CABLE IS A REPRODUCTION  4 GAUGE 24" LONG CABLE.

I don't know if he got those measurements right or not. I cut my cables that I made yesterday to 3' for the positive and 1.5' for the negative, and they were more than long enough.

Thanks Maxim!

I will remove the positive cable and see how long it is, I do think it's a bit longer than what it needs to be.

I 'think' 2 gauge will be plenty for a 90 amp alternator and it would be easier to work with as well.  I'll double check though.

When I have the cable out I'll take some pics and measurements and post back for future reference.

[MaximRecoil]

Thanks Maxim!

I will remove the positive cable and see how long it is, I do think it's a bit longer than what it needs to be.

I 'think' 2 gauge will be plenty for a 90 amp alternator and it would be easier to work with as well.  I'll double check though.

When I have the cable out I'll take some pics and measurements and post back for future reference.

The alternator size doesn't come into play anyway, at least not for the positive cable. The negative cable does provide the ground path back to the negative battery post for the alternator (which is grounded to the engine block, and that short run of 2 gauge wire is plenty to the extreme; it could handle a few hundred amps with ease), but the positive side of the battery charging circuit is formed by the wire you plan to add between the alternator and starter relay, along with the factory wire from the starter relay to the positive battery post.

If I remember right, you plan to use a 6 gauge wire from the alternator to the starter relay, which is fine, but if you do so, you should also replace the factory 8 gauge wire that goes from the starter relay to the battery, with matching 6 gauge wire. If you don't, you'll partially defeat the purpose of using 6 gauge wire from the alternator to the starter relay; i.e., the lower resistance you get from the 6 gauge wire will be partially negated by the additional resistance of the factory 8 gauge wire.

[Dino]

Thanks Maxim!

I will remove the positive cable and see how long it is, I do think it's a bit longer than what it needs to be.

I 'think' 2 gauge will be plenty for a 90 amp alternator and it would be easier to work with as well.  I'll double check though.

When I have the cable out I'll take some pics and measurements and post back for future reference.

The alternator size doesn't come into play anyway, at least not for the positive cable. The negative cable does provide the ground path back to the negative battery post for the alternator (which is grounded to the engine block, and that short run of 2 gauge wire is plenty to the extreme; it could handle a few hundred amps with ease), but the positive side of the battery charging circuit is formed by the wire you plan to add between the alternator and starter relay, along with the factory wire from the starter relay to the positive battery post.

If I remember right, you plan to use a 6 gauge wire from the alternator to the starter relay, which is fine, but if you do so, you should also replace the factory 8 gauge wire that goes from the starter relay to the battery, with matching 6 gauge wire. If you don't, you'll partially defeat the purpose of using 6 gauge wire from the alternator to the starter relay; i.e., the lower resistance you get from the 6 gauge wire will be partially negated by the additional resistance of the factory 8 gauge wire.

Great information, thanks man!   

I'll be sure to get 6 gauge wire.  The third wire going to the starter is likely an 8 as well then?  Should both branches be 6 ga?

[MaximRecoil]

The third wire going to the starter is likely an 8 as well then?  Should both branches be 6 ga?

Are you referring to the relatively thin wire (looks like 10 or 12 gauge) going from that lower terminal on the starter relay down to the smaller of the two studs on the starter solenoid? If so, it is fine as-is; it isn't part of your charging circuit, nor does it have to handle particularly heavy current. It is simply the trigger wire for the starter solenoid (the starter solenoid is essentially just a big relay capable of handling very high current).

When you turn your key to start the engine, two relays go into action. The first is your starter relay mounted on your firewall, it is triggered by the 16 or 18 gauge yellow wire from your bulkhead connector. That sends juice down that 10 or 12 gauge wire to the starter solenoid attached to your starter, which triggers it to make a connection allowing juice to flow through your positive battery cable, through the starter to crank your engine, and completing its circuit through the engine block and through your negative battery cable to your negative battery post.

[Dino]

Yes, that's the wire.  It is only slightly thinner than the red wire going from positive terminal to relay.  0.19 vs 0.20.  I looked up some conversion charts and those would be a 5 -6 gauge wires.  That seems odd.  Since the wire from alt to relay will be 6 gauge, which I thought would be bigger than that, I would use the same wire plus inline maxi fuse from relay to battery positive terminal.  The wire from relay to small stud on solenoid is frayed at the bottom so I was going to replace it with an 8 gauge wire.  Am I measuring the wires wrong or am I ready to order even thinner wires here?  I'm confused.

This is the triple wire mess, there's some fuel line over the bottom part to protect the wires from the header.  Still looks like a mess underneath as you can see.  I'll need something a bit more effective to protect the new wiring.

Can anyone confirm that the lug needed for the large stud on the starter solenoid is 5/16?  Anyone know what the small one is?  Oh and the wire running from solenoid to relay has a spade connector on the relay, what size is that one?

[Dino]

more

[Canadian1968]

The wire you have running from the postive battery to your starter relay, is not 6 gauge.  I just replaced mine with 8 gauge wire, and it is bigger than what was on there. Would 6 be over kill?? Not at all but its is a bit harder to find, at least for me it is.

You said the wire from the relay to the the solenoid on the starter.  As mentioned these are more or less trigger wires 10 would be fine 8 is more than you need really.

Your wondierng about sizes, just cut off the ends and take them with you to the parts store. Line'em up !!!  Most stores now have reference boards for bolt/ nut/ screw sizes now.

[MaximRecoil]

Yes, that's the wire.  It is only slightly thinner than the red wire going from positive terminal to relay.  0.19 vs 0.20.  I looked up some conversion charts and those would be a 5 -6 gauge wires.  That seems odd.  Since the wire from alt to relay will be 6 gauge, which I thought would be bigger than that, I would use the same wire plus inline maxi fuse from relay to battery positive terminal.  The wire from relay to small stud on solenoid is frayed at the bottom so I was going to replace it with an 8 gauge wire.  Am I measuring the wires wrong or am I ready to order even thinner wires here?  I'm confused.

That trigger wire going from the starter relay to the smaller of the two studs on the starter solenoid is 10 gauge at the most. There is a difference between the diameter of the copper conductor vs. the diameter of the wire including the insulation. Wire gauge charts go by the size of the conductor, because that is all that matters for electrical conductivity. If the conductor were .19" in diameter, that would make it between 4 and 5 gauge wire, which is about the size of your stock battery cables, and it isn't anywhere near that size. You can't measure the conductor without cutting the wire, but you can tell by looking at it that it is no bigger than 10 gauge and no smaller than 12 gauge.

There is no need to replace that trigger wire if it is still in good shape; but if you want to replace it anyway, you'll need a ring terminal on one end sized for I'm guessing a #10 stud, and the spade terminal (horseshoe shape) on the other end is probably sized for a #10 stud too. 10 gauge wire is plenty.

Can anyone confirm that the lug needed for the large stud on the starter solenoid is 5/16?

Yes, it definitely is.

Anyone know what the small one is?

As mentioned above, #10 (about 3/16") is my guess.

Oh and the wire running from solenoid to relay has a spade connector on the relay, what size is that one?

Probably #10 as well. If you go to the hardware store and pick up a spade and ring terminal for a #10 stud for a few cents you can find out for sure, but I'd almost bet on it being #10, which sucks, because you have to be very careful tightening the nut on that tiny solenoid stud or you'll strip it. I'd prefer they'd used a 1/4" stud, just for the sake of durability.

[Dino]

Agreed on the relay, I was very careful with it and that probable saved it.

Thanks for the numbers, I think I have everything I need now to order.  Although I need to look up what all I need for the headlight relay upgrade.  Might as well go full out!

What do you think about this fuse holder?  I like that you can bolt it to the firewall to make it look neat and not have any strain on the wires.  Seeing I have a 90 amp alt, I guess a 100 amp fuse is more than plenty but they go up as high as 250 amps.

http://www.delcity.net/store/MEGA-Fuse-Holder/p_795652

http://www.delcity.net/store/search/p_800374.h_800375.t_1.n_y.jsp?search=87250&x=14&y=9

[MaximRecoil]

Agreed on the relay, I was very careful with it and that probable saved it.

Thanks for the numbers, I think I have everything I need now to order.  Although I need to look up what all I need for the headlight relay upgrade.  Might as well go full out!

Two ISO relays, also known as "Bosch Relays". I used a pair of these, because the plugs are good quality, and the wires coming out of the plugs are all good quality as well, 14 gauge, thick flexible insulation, tinned copper strands. If you want to get "fussy" about it though, remove the wires/terminals that come with it from the plug, and crimp new female terminals (using open barrel crimpers) on the ends of the wires you will be running to the relay, and snap them into the plug housings (prevents having to splice).  

If you're planning to bypass your ammeter, then the easiest place to source the power for the headlights via the relays is the positive battery terminal, because right near the battery is the best place to mount the relays (it is close to the headlights and existing headlight wiring). I mounted mine on the radiator chair (you can also mount the relays under the battery tray if you want them out of sight, though it makes it more of a pain to replace a relay if you ever need to), and used a 30 amp self-resetting thermal circuit breaker (Bussmann CBC-30HB) on the 10 gauge power wire from the battery, instead of a fuse:



If you plan to keep your ammeter hooked up, you need to source the power from the alternator side of things, i.e., the alternator output stud if you want to maintain accuracy.  

What do you think about this fuse holder?  I like that you can bolt it to the firewall to make it look neat and not have any strain on the wires.  Seeing I have a 90 amp alt, I guess a 100 amp fuse is more than plenty but they go up as high as 250 amps.

http://www.delcity.net/store/MEGA-Fuse-Holder/p_795652

http://www.delcity.net/store/search/p_800374.h_800375.t_1.n_y.jsp?search=87250&x=14&y=9

That's the same idea as an ANL fuse holder. I'd prefer an ANL fuse holder simply because replacement ANL fuses are available at any car audio store, so they may be easier to find than Mega Fuses. Since ANL fuses are popular in the car audio world, you can get them with gold plated contacts (I don't know if Mega Fuses are available that way or not), which is nice for corrosion resistance. Here is a comparison between ANL and Mega Fuses. As it says there, ANL fuses are used primarily for cabling protection, which is exactly what you are using a fuse for in this case.

I like the looks of that fuse holder on their site too (link); looks sturdy and functional; glass-filled nylon base (very tough), stainless steel and nickel-plated copper hardware, cover included; good stuff. I suggest the 5/16" post size, because ANL fuses are most commonly available for that size post. But you can get an ANL fuse holder at any car audio store too (maybe boating/marine type stores too), though car audio products tend to have more "bling" than you may want, and sometimes it's a case of style over substance.

[Dino]

Thanks for all that!   

I'm mounting the relays in the location you posted or very close to it.  I'm not sticking them under the tray for the same reason.  I'm am also bypassing the ammeter.  I need to check the wiring diagram to see if I can do away with the red wire there. 

I contacted the company that is going to make my other wires and they can put a 2 gauge and a 6 gauge in one positive copper battery terminal.  I was going to stick a fuse on the 6 gauge going from battery to relay per our conversation.  Should I change that?  I don't know if there's room in that terminal to cram a third wire in so I guess I need to add it to the bolt tightening the terminal?  IU don't need any bling but I do want everything looking clean and professional and as safe as possible.  I'd like to do this only once!   

[MaximRecoil]

I need to check the wiring diagram to see if I can do away with the red wire there.

The red wire from one side of the ammeter? Going from memory, I believe you need that wire to complete the circuits of the wiring that is powering your interior stuff. The easiest way to bypass the ammeter is to just put both the ammeter wires onto one post of the ammeter (doesn't matter which post).

I contacted the company that is going to make my other wires and they can put a 2 gauge and a 6 gauge in one positive copper battery terminal.  I was going to stick a fuse on the 6 gauge going from battery to relay per our conversation.  Should I change that?  I don't know if there's room in that terminal to cram a third wire in so I guess I need to add it to the bolt tightening the terminal?  IU don't need any bling but I do want everything looking clean and professional and as safe as possible.  I'd like to do this only once!  

By "third wire", are you referring to the one for powering your headlights via the relays? I used the bolt tightening the terminal for that, but if you go with a Mega Fuse or ANL fuse holder, you could also just tap in there on the post that would be unfused relative to the battery (i.e., the post that the short section of 6 gauge wire from the battery terminal is connected to). If you want everything to look integrated, you could have them crimp a 10 gauge wire in with the 5/16" hole lug that's on the end of the short section of 6 gauge wire from the battery.  

[Dino]

I need to check the wiring diagram to see if I can do away with the red wire there.

The red wire from one side of the ammeter? Going from memory, I believe you need that wire to complete the circuits of the wiring that is powering your interior stuff. The easiest way to bypass the ammeter is to just put both the ammeter wires onto one post of the ammeter (doesn't matter which post).

I contacted the company that is going to make my other wires and they can put a 2 gauge and a 6 gauge in one positive copper battery terminal.  I was going to stick a fuse on the 6 gauge going from battery to relay per our conversation.  Should I change that?  I don't know if there's room in that terminal to cram a third wire in so I guess I need to add it to the bolt tightening the terminal?  IU don't need any bling but I do want everything looking clean and professional and as safe as possible.  I'd like to do this only once!  

By "third wire", are you referring to the one for powering your headlights via the relays? I used the bolt tightening the terminal for that, but if you go with a Mega Fuse or ANL fuse holder, you could also just tap in there on the post that would be unfused relative to the battery (i.e., the post that the short section of 6 gauge wire from the battery terminal is connected to). If you want everything to look integrated, you could have them crimp a 10 gauge wire in with the 5/16" hole lug that's on the end of the short section of 6 gauge wire from the battery.  

Yes the red wire from the ammeter.  I wasn't sure if I needed it anymore or not, guess I do!  I'm going to replace the ammeter with a volt meter but not right now.  Can I simply connect black and red with a short bolt and put some marine heat shrink over it instead?  I can stick them both on one post for now but when the ammeter goes then I'd have to change it anyway.

I did indeed mean the power wire for the headlights with third wire.  So I could bolt it onto the positive terminal or bolt it to the starter relay.  Does that one need a fuse?  I need to look at the diagram again, I just gave myself a headache.

I will try to make a schematic and post it to make sure I got everything right.

[MaximRecoil]

Can I simply connect black and red with a short bolt and put some marine heat shrink over it instead?

Yes.

I did indeed mean the power wire for the headlights with third wire.  So I could bolt it onto the positive terminal or bolt it to the starter relay.  Does that one need a fuse?  I need to look at the diagram again, I just gave myself a headache.

I will try to make a schematic and post it to make sure I got everything right.

The power wire for the relay/headlights could bolt to the starter relay stud, but that's a longer run than is necessary. Connecting it to the unfused fuse holder stud or to the positive battery terminal bolt would be much closer.

Your positive battery terminal will have two wires crimped into it: a 2 gauge wire that goes to your starter solenoid, and a short 6 gauge wire that will go to one of the studs on your fuse holder (you want to mount the fuse holder as close as you can to the battery, so that 6 gauge wire coming out of your positive battery terminal will be quite short, and it will need a 5/16" hole lug crimped onto it). Now, you could tell them to crimp a 10 gauge wire in with that 5/16" hole lug on the end of the short section of 6 gauge wire, and that will be your power wire to the relay/headlights, like so:



And yes, you should have a fuse or circuit breaker on the 10 gauge wire. If you use a fuse, it is best to use a separate 10 gauge power wire to each relay, with a fuse on each one, that way, if one fuse blows when you have your high beams on, you can switch to low beams and have lights, and vice versa. With a self-resetting circuit breaker, it isn't necessary to have two of them, though you can if you want.

[Dino]

Oh that makes sense!   

Instead of having the fuse all the way at the firewall, I need to place it as close as possible to the battery.  Good thing I hadn't ordered the wires yet!  I think I'll do exactly as you drew up, that looks to be a nice, clean solution.  Thanks Maxim!   

[MaximRecoil]

Oh that makes sense!   

Instead of having the fuse all the way at the firewall, I need to place it as close as possible to the battery.  Good thing I hadn't ordered the wires yet!  I think I'll do exactly as you drew up, that looks to be a nice, clean solution.  Thanks Maxim!   

Yeah, placing the fuse as close to the battery as you can results in the least amount of unprotected wire. A dead short to ground will always pull current between the point of the dead short and the battery, so the closer the fuse is to the battery, the less chance there is of a dead short happening in the unprotected section of wire between the fuse and the battery.

A dead short is highly unlikely provided you carefully route your cables away from any metal edges that they could abrade on, but in the event of a car accident, all bets are off. When the steel of your car's grounded chassis starts bending and crumpling, it can pinch through a hot wire anywhere, which can result in a fire if there is no fuse or fusible link between the dead short and the battery. No one wants to have a car accident of course, but a fire makes a car accident even worse, especially if fuel is leaking nearby (which can also easily happen in a car accident).

[Dino]

Oh that makes sense!   

Instead of having the fuse all the way at the firewall, I need to place it as close as possible to the battery.  Good thing I hadn't ordered the wires yet!  I think I'll do exactly as you drew up, that looks to be a nice, clean solution.  Thanks Maxim!   

Yeah, placing the fuse as close to the battery as you can results in the least amount of unprotected wire. A dead short to ground will always pull current between the point of the dead short and the battery, so the closer the fuse is to the battery, the less chance there is of a dead short happening in the unprotected section of wire between the fuse and the battery.

A dead short is highly unlikely provided you carefully route your cables away from any metal edges that they could abrade on, but in the event of a car accident, all bets are off. When the steel of your car's grounded chassis starts bending and crumpling, it can pinch through a hot wire anywhere, which can result in a fire if there is no fuse or fusible link between the dead short and the battery. No one wants to have a car accident of course, but a fire makes a car accident even worse, especially if fuel is leaking nearby (which can also easily happen in a car accident).

Agreed on all counts! 

I will be doing final measuring of wires tonight once I find a good spot for the ANL fuse holder.

The following is for myself, I have so many notes on this it's a bit confusing.   

So instead of ordering a long 6 gauge wire to go from positive battery terminal to relay, I will have two 6 gauge wires for that as they are interrupted by the anl fuse, one short and one long.  The short one starts at the terminal (crimped in with the 2 ga positive cable) and goes to the ANL fuse where the 10 ga wire gets crimped in the 5/16 lug with the end of the short 6 ga wire.  The longer part of the 6 ga wire goes from the fuse holder to the starter relay so 5/16 lugs on either end.

One question:  The busman 30 amp breaker, what size studs does that one have?  5/16 as well?  I'm sure I'll have to make some wiring of my won to tie everything in, but the more these marine guys can do the better.

[MaximRecoil]

So instead of ordering a long 6 gauge wire to go from positive battery terminal to relay, I will have two 6 gauge wires for that as they are interrupted by the anl fuse, one short and one long.  The short one starts at the terminal (crimped in with the 2 ga positive cable) and goes to the ANL fuse where the 10 ga wire gets crimped in the 5/16 lug with the end of the short 6 ga wire.  The longer part of the 6 ga wire goes from the fuse holder to the starter relay so 5/16 lugs on either end.

That's all correct, except you need three 6 gauge wires:

1. Alternator to starter relay (1/4" lug on one end, 5/16" lug on the other)
2. Starter relay to ANL fuse holder (5/16" lug on both ends)
3. Short section crimped in with the positive battery terminal, to the ANL fuse holder (5/16" lug on the end, which will also have a 10 gauge wire crimped in the same lug)

This is what your battery charging circuit will look like (and it will be a good one):

One question:  The busman 30 amp breaker, what size studs does that one have?  5/16 as well?  I'm sure I'll have to make some wiring of my won to tie everything in, but the more these marine guys can do the better.

No, they are small; #10 stud, which is roughly 3/16". Anything smaller than 1/4" goes to a numbering system; #10 being one size down from 1/4". Here is a chart - link.

[Dino]

Ah yes, the one 6 ga wire going from alt to relay may be quite important as well.      Funny thing is, that's the one it all started with!   

Thanks for that link!  You have taught me a lot about all this.  Many thanks to you.      

All that is left, for now  , is to decide where to put the anl fuse holder.  What do you think about that 'ditch' that's pressed into the inner fender?  There's quite a bit of clearance between it and the battery, easy access and the best bet to stay clean.  I could place it lower, close or onto the shock tower or even right on top next to the fender tag, but the gulley may hide it nicely and house the wring well.  It also goes straight to the radiator support where the relays will go.  Hmm, maybe I should put the ANL right onto the rad support.  It'll be near invisible.  That's the length of the battery away, is that close enough? 

Was it easier to tie into the headlight wiring on the driver's side?  I know some tap the power from the alternator and go in from the passenger side.  Seems to me the first option is better but I have found too many diagrams for this and need to look for the one I really need.   

[MaximRecoil]

Ah yes, the one 6 ga wire going from alt to relay may be quite important as well.     Funny thing is, that's the one it all started with!  

Thanks for that link!  You have taught me a lot about all this.  Many thanks to you.    

No problem.

All that is left, for now  , is to decide where to put the anl fuse holder.  What do you think about that 'ditch' that's pressed into the inner fender?  There's quite a bit of clearance between it and the battery, easy access and the best bet to stay clean.

That's fine if it will fit there. That's where a factory wiring and vacuum hose (to the headlights) bundle runs anyway; it is there for the purpose of wiring.

I could place it lower, close or onto the shock tower or even right on top next to the fender tag, but the gulley may hide it nicely and house the wring well.  It also goes straight to the radiator support where the relays will go.  Hmm, maybe I should put the ANL right onto the rad support.  It'll be near invisible.  That's the length of the battery away, is that close enough?

The radiator support would be fine too; wherever you can fit it reasonably close to the battery is good.

Was it easier to tie into the headlight wiring on the driver's side?  I know some tap the power from the alternator and go in from the passenger side.  Seems to me the first option is better but I have found too many diagrams for this and need to look for the one I really need.  

The driver's side is best, because that's where the source wiring from the headlight dimmer switch to the headlights runs, and it is closest to the battery (the only reason to use the alternator post to power the relays/headlights is if you have stock charging system wiring and you want your ammeter to remain accurate). Those wires from the headlight dimmer switch to the headlights will become your relay trigger and relay output wires. There are two wires from the dimmer switch out to the headlights, a red one and a blue or purple one with a white stripe. If I remember right, red is high beam and the other is low beam (it may be the other way around; you'd have to double check).

Both of those factory dimmer switch to headlight wires need to be cut, right near where you mount the relays. After cutting, the end of each wire that's connected to the dimmer switch becomes the trigger wire for each relay (relay terminal #86), and the end of each wire that's connected to the headlights becomes the output wire for each relay (relay terminal #87).

Relay terminal #30 is for the power wire (the two wires coming off your circuit breaker go to that terminal on each relay), and relay terminal #85 on each relay goes to ground, which can either be on the chassis or the negative battery terminal bolt. I used the negative battery terminal bolt for mine, as can be seen in the photograph I posted earlier.

Note that most people use the factory wiring for the output of the relays to the headlights, as I described above (that's what I did in my car as well), because it is easy and since you've greatly shortened the length that headlight current has to travel on them, they have less resistance than they did in the factory wiring setup. However, if you want even more improvement, you can replace that relay-to-headlights wiring with new 14 or 12 gauge wiring (and replace the 2 factory headlight ground wires with 14 or 12 gauge as well). This is something I intend to do eventually on my car. I don't need to, because I'm already getting 13.25 volts at the headlight terminals with the high beams on, and ~13 volts is right where halogen headlights are designed to operate at.  

[Dino]

What do you think of this AL fuse and holder?  It's recommended for fuses up to 300 amps.  The other one has ceramic fuses that go from 300 to 750.  That may be overkill!   

https://www.vtewarehouse.com/content/electromech/fuse/html/anl/anlfuse.php

[MaximRecoil]

Looks good. It looks like it is made the same as the other one they sell (glass filled nylon base, stainless steel posts), plus it is lower profile, which is good.

[Dino]

I received the ANL fuse holder.  Man that thing is huge!   

First thing I'll try is to mount it under the battery tray, if that doesn't work then...I dunno, somewhere out of sight.  Unfortunately the terminal insulators are way too big, the hole to push the 6 gauge cable through is 3/4" wide so I'll either have to sue a lot of tape to make it smaller or get new insulators somewhere.

Not bad for $10 though.

[MaximRecoil]

Unfortunately the terminal insulators are way too big, the hole to push the 6 gauge cable through is 3/4" wide so I'll either have to sue a lot of tape to make it smaller or get new insulators somewhere.

That won't hurt anything. Think of all of your high-current connections that don't have any cover / insulation on them at all, such as your battery terminals, starter relay post, starter solenoid posts, and alternator post. The idea of those insulators is just to provide a cover to prevent an accidental short if you're working around it with a wrench or something, it doesn't need to be airtight. Pretty much all ANL fuse holders with covers are like that, this one for example. The openings aren't designed for a tight fit around the wires; they make them oversized so you can fit extremely large cable through there (4/0 gauge for example), or multiple smaller wires.

[Dino]

Unfortunately the terminal insulators are way too big, the hole to push the 6 gauge cable through is 3/4" wide so I'll either have to sue a lot of tape to make it smaller or get new insulators somewhere.

That won't hurt anything. Think of all of your high-current connections that don't have any cover / insulation on them at all, such as your battery terminals, starter relay post, starter solenoid posts, and alternator post. The idea of those insulators is just to provide a cover to prevent an accidental short if you're working around it with a wrench or something, it doesn't need to be airtight. Pretty much all ANL fuse holders with covers are like that, this one for example. The openings aren't designed for a tight fit around the wires; they make them oversized so you can fit extremely large cable through there (4/0 gauge for example), or multiple smaller wires.

Oh good!  That'll make it very straight forward then!  Now if only I had some time to actually work on this car!   

[Dino]

Two ISO relays, also known as "Bosch Relays". I used a pair of these, because the plugs are good quality, and the wires coming out of the plugs are all good quality as well, 14 gauge, thick flexible insulation, tinned copper strands. If you want to get "fussy" about it though, remove the wires/terminals that come with it from the plug, and crimp new female terminals (using open barrel crimpers) on the ends of the wires you will be running to the relay, and snap them into the plug housings (prevents having to splice).  

I found that my headlight wiring had been cut already.  I 'think' there is supposed to be a big grey plug connecting headlight harness to the engine harness.  That's gone and replaced with butt connectors.  Not done badly but time to redo anyway.  Unless the lads on those sockets are 18" long, I won't be able to directly connect them.  Oh well, the idea was nice but I'll have to splice anyway.

The ling for the relay shows it's a 40 amp instead of 30.  Is that okay or should I get one of these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/via-80237/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/via-80238/overview/


I ended up bolting the ANL fuse holder to the bottom of the battery tray which worked out real nice.  My custom cables are done and should be here before the weekend so I'll keep you posted.

[Pete in NH]

Hi Dino,

You should be fine with a relay rated for 40 amps rather than 30. So many times manufacturers play little ratings games to get a marketing edge. It all depends whether they want to be on the conservative side or play it a little close to the absolute maximum. In any case in the head light application you are using them for they will likely never see more than 15 to 20 amps and that is very likely on the high side, so there is plenty of safety margin even with a 30 amp part. You can always go higher in current ratings on a part like a relay, just gives you more margin and hopefully longer life.

[Dino]

Hi Dino,

You should be fine with a relay rated for 40 amps rather than 30. So many times manufacturers play little ratings games to get a marketing edge. It all depends whether they want to be on the conservative side or play it a little close to the absolute maximum. In any case in the head light application you are using them for they will likely never see more than 15 to 20 amps and that is very likely on the high side, so there is plenty of safety margin even with a 30 amp part. You can always go higher in current ratings on a part like a relay, just gives you more margin and hopefully longer life.

Thanks Pete!  That's good to know.

I kinda like the ones with the double socket but it will limit me in relay placement as well. 

[MaximRecoil]

Hi Dino,

You should be fine with a relay rated for 40 amps rather than 30. So many times manufacturers play little ratings games to get a marketing edge. It all depends whether they want to be on the conservative side or play it a little close to the absolute maximum. In any case in the head light application you are using them for they will likely never see more than 15 to 20 amps and that is very likely on the high side, so there is plenty of safety margin even with a 30 amp part. You can always go higher in current ratings on a part like a relay, just gives you more margin and hopefully longer life.

Exactly.

I kinda like the ones with the double socket but it will limit me in relay placement as well. 

Yeah, plus I bet they would be a pain when trying to pull the plug off the relays, with 8 terminals being gripped at once, and you'd have to drill your mounting holes for the relays perfectly just so they line up perfectly to accept the double plug in the first place. More hassle than it is worth in my opinion. Plus, all of those relay plugs aren't created equally. I don't know about those in your links specifically, but I know some of them cheap out on the wires. The wires in the Pico plugs that I linked to earlier are very good quality, and full 14 gauge for all of them. 

[Dino]

Hi Dino,

You should be fine with a relay rated for 40 amps rather than 30. So many times manufacturers play little ratings games to get a marketing edge. It all depends whether they want to be on the conservative side or play it a little close to the absolute maximum. In any case in the head light application you are using them for they will likely never see more than 15 to 20 amps and that is very likely on the high side, so there is plenty of safety margin even with a 30 amp part. You can always go higher in current ratings on a part like a relay, just gives you more margin and hopefully longer life.

Exactly.

I kinda like the ones with the double socket but it will limit me in relay placement as well. 

Yeah, plus I bet they would be a pain when trying to pull the plug off the relays, with 8 terminals being gripped at once, and you'd have to drill your mounting holes for the relays perfectly just so they line up perfectly to accept the double plug in the first place. More hassle than it is worth in my opinion. Plus, all of those relay plugs aren't created equally. I don't know about those in your links specifically, but I know some of them cheap out on the wires. The wires in the Pico plugs that I linked to earlier are very good quality, and full 14 gauge for all of them. 

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to so I order the Pico ones you linked.   

I also ordered the Bussmann breaker.  The guys that made my cables did not have the smaller terminals, as they are more specialized in bigger wiring, so I'll have to go out and buy a few #10 rings and a spade but not until I have everything mocked up under the hood because something tells me I may need more stuff anyway.   

[Dino]

I received the custom cables and could not be happier!  They look great!

I'll post pics tomorrow and will start a new thread once everything's in place for those who want to do the same.

Basically I combined the alternator upgrade with the ammeter bypass and the headlight upgrade so I would like to adapt the existing Charger wiring diagram to show exactly what needs to be done.

For those who can't wait, this is the place I got the wiring.  The owner is a real nice guy and answers email very timely.  I ordered 6 or 7 cables on Monday and received everything yesterday.

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/

You can pick the wire gauge, color, length and what connectors you want on each end.  All connections are covered in dual wall heat shrink so if you're looking for the oem look, this is not for you.  If, however, you want something that looks good, will likely outlast the car and is at a good price, you can't go wrong here.

[John L]

Dino,
How are you attaching the fusible link to the heavier gage wire?

John

[Dino]

Dino,
How are you attaching the fusible link to the heavier gage wire?

John

John, I'm not using a fusible link, I'm using an 80A ANL fuse.  Scroll up to the see the fuse holder.  It's currently mounted under the battery tray so I'll post some pics when it's installed.  Go to page 2 to see two diagrams Maximrecoil posted.  That's how I've set it up.

[Dino]

I have spliced the black and red ammeter wires so the gauge is no longer hooked up.  I found that the black wire was already adapted by a previous owner as it no longer used the plain bulkhead connection.  The connector was drilled and the wire ran right through it.  Same for the dark blue right next to it that goes to the ignition switch.  Funny enough the red wire still had its old connection, although the slip on connector was already drilled.  Somehow it never got finished.  I'm going to need at least part of the bulkhead connector but now I'm wondering...after all these upgrades, should it not be ok to use the factory design without having to drill he bulkhead connector?  I'd like to just buy the whole thing brand new and set it up stock.  Also, the red wire coming from the ammeter is supposed to go to the starter relay by fusible link no?  It's just a wire on mine...
Do I still need a fuse there after these mods?

Oh and I finished the headlight wiring upgrade as well.   

[MaximRecoil]

...after all these upgrades, should it not be ok to use the factory design without having to drill he bulkhead connector?  I'd like to just buy the whole thing brand new and set it up stock.

Yes, it is fine to use the factory design, because the biggest load on those bulkhead connectors is the battery charging circuit wiring (the red and black 12 gauge wires that connect to the ammeter), and by running the 6 gauge wire from the alternator > starter relay > battery, the load is removed from the factory 12 gauge wires (because electricity takes the path of least resistance). There will still be some semi high current connections running through the bulkhead connector, like the blower motor, windshield wiper motor, and cigarette lighter wiring, but as long as the terminals in your bulkhead connector are clean and tight, those aren't a problem.

Also, the red wire coming from the ammeter is supposed to go to the starter relay by fusible link no?  It's just a wire on mine...
Do I still need a fuse there after these mods?

Yes, you should still have a fusible link (or fuse) there (always 4 AWG sizes smaller than the wire it is protecting, so a 16 gauge fusible link, about 3" long). Even though those 12 gauge wires won't see much load after your wiring modifications, they still have a direct path to the battery, and if a dead short happens to one of those 12 gauge wires, it can start a fire if unfused.

Oh and I finished the headlight wiring upgrade as well.   

Is it working good, or is your rewiring not yet complete enough to try it?

[Dino]

...after all these upgrades, should it not be ok to use the factory design without having to drill he bulkhead connector?  I'd like to just buy the whole thing brand new and set it up stock.

Yes, it is fine to use the factory design, because the biggest load on those bulkhead connectors is the battery charging circuit wiring (the red and black 12 gauge wires that connect to the ammeter), and by running the 6 gauge wire from the alternator > starter relay > battery, the load is removed from the factory 12 gauge wires (because electricity takes the path of least resistance). There will still be some semi high current connections running through the bulkhead connector, like the blower motor, windshield wiper motor, and cigarette lighter wiring, but as long as the terminals in your bulkhead connector are clean and tight, those aren't a problem.

Also, the red wire coming from the ammeter is supposed to go to the starter relay by fusible link no?  It's just a wire on mine...
Do I still need a fuse there after these mods?

Yes, you should still have a fusible link (or fuse) there (always 4 AWG sizes smaller than the wire it is protecting, so a 16 gauge fusible link, about 3" long). Even though those 12 gauge wires won't see much load after your wiring modifications, they still have a direct path to the battery, and if a dead short happens to one of those 12 gauge wires, it can start a fire if unfused.

Oh and I finished the headlight wiring upgrade as well.  

Is it working good, or is your rewiring not yet complete enough to try it?

I figured a fusible link was still needed!  I'll get one today.  I cannot test the headlights yet as the bulkhead is disconnected now, but I'm sure it will be a vast improvement!

Thanks!