Negative battery cable

[Dino]

I need to replace mine.  I don't need anything correct, just something good.  I have a 71 440 in my 69 and have the pigtail on the negative going to the rad support.  I know it's not stock for a 69.  The battery cable runs to the power steering pump bracket bolt.  The a/c compressor and intake are aftermarket and I like where the cable is now.  Then there's the ground strap from the ps rear intake manifold bolt to firewall.  What gauge are these all supposed to be?

Is it better to have that 3rd ground pigtail or can I omit it?

Also I need a quick disconnect, are any of these any good or others hat are recommended?

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/10397/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710653247&catargetid=1784155608&cadevice=c&&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CP_OvvGXvbkCFUxgMgodBVoA2w
http://compare.ebay.com/like/370737008184?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

And what for those memorable occasions when smoke comes bellowing into the cab? What's a good interior mounted battery kill switch?  Something that's not easily tripped by accident.  Unless it's huge any switch should be easily hidden but within reach.

[A383Wing]

NAPA has decent cables...probably right around the corner.

My 66's have only the main cable from battery to engine. Then there is a 10ga ground strap from rear of engine to firewall.

Unless you are going for a 100% resto, a few  more grounds will not hurt anything...I did an extra one from battery to rad support on my car

[MaximRecoil]

The best battery cables are the ones you make yourself, or have them made somewhere (such as your local autoparts store).

Get a tinned copper crimp-on battery terminal, like so - link, a tinned closed-end copper ring terminal (lug), like so - link, a section of at least 2 AWG battery cable, and some large heat shrink tubing (3M is the best, especially their thick wall adhesive-lined stuff).

Both of my local autoparts stores have battery lug crimpers (like so - link), and they sell battery cable and the crimp-on terminals, and they will crimp the terminals on for you. They may not sell large enough heat shrink tubing though, so bring your own.

The heat shrink tubing, especially the adhesive-lined stuff, will make an airtight seal between the crimped on terminals and the battery cable's insulation. The solid copper terminal that clamps to your battery post is much tougher than the typical lead alloy terminals that most premade battery cables have (not to mention it is a far better electrical conductor), which means it will stand up to the wear and tear of wrenching and prying that tends to happen to battery terminals after being removed several times and/or having booster cable alligator clips digging into them.

Thoroughly coat your battery posts and cable terminals with grease, and you'll never have to worry about it again, it will last forever.

By the way, those links are just examples; you'd need to get the right size terminals for your application of course.  

As for an interior battery kill switch, that would be quite a job. The only practical way to do it is to have a remote control of some sort in the interior which operates a switch mounted near the battery. The remote control could be a push/pull cable type mechanism used in conjuction with a mechanical switch mounted near the battery for the battery kill switch, or it could be an interior-mounted electrical switch used in conjuction with a high current solenoid (such as the type of solenoids that are used on starters) mounted near the battery for the battery kill switch, if you could find a normally-closed one that is.

[JB400]

More better yet, is to get a cable with the ends molded onto the cables like what comes factory.  There is less likely a chance of corrosion getting between the crimped connection and the cable, even with heat shrink tubing.  If a crimped connection is the only available option, then a marine style is preferred due to being able to clean the ends is easier.

[MaximRecoil]

More better yet, is to get a cable with the ends molded onto the cables like what comes factory.  There is less likely a chance of corrosion getting between the crimped connection and the cable, even with heat shrink tubing.

Impossible with 3M adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing. Additionally, corrosion can never actually get inside a proper crimp anyway, because a proper crimp is airtight in and of itself. The only thing the heat shrink tubing is for is to keep corrosion off the small section of exposed-to-air wire strands between where the back of the terminal ends and the insulation starts.

And regarding molded ends on factory-style battery cables, the molded end = lead, which = crap.

So explain how a terminal which has much higher electrical resistance and is far less durable is "more better yet".

If a crimped connection is the only available option, then a marine style is preferred due to being able to clean the ends is easier.

Huh? This is a "marine" crimp-on battery terminal - link. It is no different than what I linked to, or what you can buy at the local autoparts store if you ask at the counter. Also, you don't need to clean them. That is what the grease is for. Grease displaces the air and keeps it out; no air, no corrosion.

[JB400]

More better yet, is to get a cable with the ends molded onto the cables like what comes factory.  There is less likely a chance of corrosion getting between the crimped connection and the cable, even with heat shrink tubing.

Impossible with 3M adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing. Additionally, corrosion can never actually get inside a proper crimp anyway, because a proper crimp is airtight in and of itself. The only thing the heat shrink tubing is for is to keep corrosion off the small section of exposed-to-air wire strands between where the back of the terminal ends and the insulation starts. Anything is possible and matter of fact, confirmed.  I've had to replace several connectors that anyone would consider proper because of them getting corrosion.  Furthermore, a crimp is not airtight.  It is compression connector.  There is no molecular bonding.  If you want an airtight connection, either mold your connectors on your wires, or solder your connectors on to the wire.

And regarding molded ends on factory-style battery cables, the molded end = lead, which = crap.Just an opinion. If you want the best, pony up for gold.

So explain how a terminal which has much higher electrical resistance and is far less durable is "more better yet".  Already did.

If a crimped connection is the only available option, then a marine style is preferred due to being able to clean the ends is easier.

Huh? This is a "marine" crimp-on battery terminal - link. It is no different than what I linked to, or what you can buy at the local autoparts store if you ask at the counter. Also, you don't need to clean them. That is what the grease is for. Grease displaces the air and keeps it out; no air, no corrosion. All I did was give it a proper name.  In other words, I agree with you Your wish to debate an agreement puzzles me.  Most people would be enthused to know that another person agrees with them.  And yes, you need to clean your battery terminals, even when grease is applied.  Grease does break down over time and needs to be reapplied.

[MaximRecoil]

Anything is possible and matter of fact, confirmed.  I've had to replace several connectors that anyone would consider proper because of them getting corrosion.

Do you even know what adhesive-lined heat-shrink tubing is?

http://www.meyette.us/splices-heatshrinked.jpg

See the adhesive that seeped out and hardened around the ends of the heat shrink? That adhesive lines the entire inner wall of the heat shrink tubing, and is activated with heat, and if you get 3M, they make the best adhesives around, along with the best of pretty much everything around.

How exactly is air going to get in there?

Your anecdote is vague. You didn't specify the type of connector, how it was attached to the cable, whether or not there was heat shrink tubing, and if so, what type (adhesive-lined? brand?).

Furthermore, a crimp is not airtight.

Yes, it is. Do you really think I just pulled that claim out of thin air?

It is compression connector.  There is no molecular bonding.

First of all, molecular bonding isn't necessary in order for something to be airtight. Do you think there is molecular bonding with various seals and gaskets that are commonly used for airtight seals? How about in a shut-off valve for gas, such as on an oxygen tank? How about when you slide rubber vacuum hoses onto vacuum outlets on your engine?

Secondly, a proper crimp results in a cold weld which is airtight.

If you want an airtight connection, either mold your connectors on your wires, or solder your connectors on to the wire.

Or properly crimp them, like the factory did on every non-lead terminal in your car (which means all of them except for the battery post clamps, because you can't effectively crimp a soft crappy metal like lead, though it is nice and cheap). See above.

Just an opinion. If you want the best, pony up for gold.

No, gold isn't the best; it is only about 70% as conductive as copper (and lead is only 7% as conductive as copper). Gold is also not as tough as copper. Its primary benefit for electrical connections is its high resistance to corrosion, but coating anything with grease or otherwise preventing air from getting to it accomplishes corrosion resistance with any metal. In small, delicate electrical contacts where grease would gum up the works, gold or gold-plated contacts make perfect sense.

So explain how a terminal which has much higher electrical resistance and is far less durable is "more better yet".

Already did.

No you haven't, not legitimately anyway; i.e., your claim that a proper crimp is not airtight is false, as is your claim that corrosion is somehow going to happen under 3M adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing.

All I did was give it a proper name.  In other words, I agree with you Your wish to debate an agreement puzzles me.  Most people would be enthused to know that another person agrees with them.

This is an interesting attempt at a "save". And no, it is not a "proper" name; "marine" is often just marketing lingo, you know, like when you take ordinary tinned copper terminals that you can buy at any autoparts store and call them "marine".

And yes, you need to clean your battery terminals, even when grease is applied.  Grease does break down over time and needs to be reapplied.

First of all, reapplying grease isn't "cleaning", and secondly, the type of grease that is normally used on electrical connections (dielectric) is silicone-based, and it doesn't just automatically break down due to the passage of time. If solvents are getting sprayed on it or something, then yes, it will break down or be removed, but that doesn't happen under normal conditions to battery terminals.  

[JB400]

 

Oh, you said something. 

[MaximRecoil]

Oh, you said something. 

Your tacit concession is noted.

[JB400]

Oh, you said something.  

Your tacit concession is noted.

Tough crowd.  No sense of humor.


Whatever works for you Maxim is fine with me.  I'll stick with what works for me.   Who cares whose right or wrong?

[Fred]

Oh, you said something.  

Your tacit concession is noted.

Tough crowd.  No sense of humor.


Whatever works for you Maxim is fine with me.  I'll stick with what works for me.  Who cares whose right or wrong?

Are we having a contest?  Can anyone compete?  Are opinions allowed? Or are we sticking to facts?

[Dino]

Thanks guys, try not to fight, it's too early.   

This is what I had in mind for the battery cable:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=97

I'd get a black 2' long cable with a negative battery terminal on one end and a 3/8" lug on the other.

For the alternator upgrade I'm using this:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=95

6' of red cable with a 1/4" lug on one end and a 5/16" lug on the other.

This is from the website:
If you don't have the time or tools to make your own cables, Let us do it for you. We now offer cables professionally made and ready to install. All Marine cables are made from Type III stranded, Tin plated copper with a jacket resistant to moisture, oil, chemicals, gasoline fuel and excellent abrasion resistance. Designed to meet SAE, ABYC, UL and Coast Guard requirements, 600 volts, 105°C dry, 75°C wet. Safety standards for electrical and gasoline fuel systems CFR 33 Part 183.(BC-5W2). Lugs are crimped and covered with adhesive dual-wall heat shrink. If you need a cable made longer than 40 feet, just email us and we will make it.

My positive battery cable is in good shape and I really don't want to tackle that part of the harness right now but it does have the lead terminal on there.  I'll see if I can crimp a new one on there.

I do have a bunch of the adhesive marine type tubing at home, not sure if I have 2 ga though.  What is the standard battery cable size for a stock Charger anyway?

[bill440rt]

Dino,
I simply use one of those "twist" style battery disconnects, the kind with the green knob on top. Get a good one, there are cheapy styles I've seen on eBay.
I've been using same twist off on my '68 going on 15 years now, no problems.

I got a set of battery cables from this guy for my '69:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-68-69-DODGE-CHARGER-CORONET-BATTERY-CABLES-/251336142142?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a84cd2d3e&vxp=mtr
I think he used to go by a different seller name.

I've used original style battery cables on all my cars for years, never had to replace one from going bad.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just sharing my experience.

[MaximRecoil]

Thanks guys, try not to fight, it's too early.  

This is what I had in mind for the battery cable:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=97

I'd get a black 2' long cable with a negative battery terminal on one end and a 3/8" lug on the other.

Based on their description of how they make cables, they do it right, and that saves you the hassle of sourcing each component you need and finding someone to crimp the terminals.

For the alternator upgrade I'm using this:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=95

6' of red cable with a 1/4" lug on one end and a 5/16" lug on the other.

It is 6 feet in your car from the alternator stud to the starter relay stud? It was less than 5 feet in my '69 if I remember right, routed along the passenger side valley between the valve cover and the intake manifold, then along the firewall to the starter relay stud. In any event, since you're getting the cable with a 1/4" hole lug on one end (the size that fits the alternator output stud) and a 5/16" hole lug on the end (the size that fits on the starter relay stud), it seems that you plan to wire directly from the alternator to the starter relay stud without having a fusible link or fuse holder in there?  

I do have a bunch of the adhesive marine type tubing at home, not sure if I have 2 ga though.  What is the standard battery cable size for a stock Charger anyway?

I still have the stock battery cables in my '69 (though I crimped tinned copper battery terminals onto them, to replace the crappy lead gas station terminals that some previous owner had put on them), and they appear to be 2 gauge. They seem to be bigger than 4 gauge, I doubt they are 1 gauge, and they are definitely smaller than 1/0 gauge. The battery terminals that I crimped on were sized for 2 gauge wire and they were a good fit. Keep in mind that actual wire sizes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, so one company's 4 gauge may be another company's 2 gauge (or even more drastic in some cases).

By the way, if you wanted to upgrade your battery cables over the stock size you could go to e.g. 1/0 gauge cable for both positive and negative. They would have less resistance than 4 or 2 gauge cables, which may make your engine start a little quicker. I would go with 1/0 gauge if I ever made completely new battery cables for my car.  

[MaximRecoil]

I've used original style battery cables on all my cars for years, never had to replace one from going bad.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just sharing my experience.

In my car, the original molded-on lead terminals were long gone when I got it, replaced with cheap lead terminals like you see hanging on the wall in a gas station, so the original terminals most likely failed, assuming they weren't cut off and replaced just for the fun of it. I've had several lead terminals, both the gas station type and the molded on type, break or crack while tightening them to the battery post. Another annoying thing about lead terminals is the ridge that's supposed to keep the bolt from turning while you tighten the nut will easily round off, making it so you need two wrenches to tighten the terminal down, and the bolt head end is hard to get a wrench on, because you weren't supposed to need a wrench, because that (now rounded off) ridge was supposed to keep it from turning. Copper terminals, being much tougher, don't have that problem.

Other things that easily damage lead terminals include the teeth on booster cable alligator clamps, and screwdrivers or other prying tools sometimes needed to spread them in order to get them off the battery post.

[JB400]

You do realize that battery terminal bolts are suppose to be just snugged and not torqued to 300 ft. lbs ?


Please note:  The last number is an exaggeration and not to be taken seriously.  I think you're way over tightening your previous battery terminals  and/or using the wrong size terminal.  It would explain why you're cracking your terminals and stripping out the bolt clamps.


I suppose I'll get a book to read now.

[MaximRecoil]

You do realize that battery terminal bolts are suppose to be just snugged and not torqued to 300 ft. lbs ?

For a high current electrical connection, the tighter the better. This is why crimps are so tight that it results in a cold weld. Lead doesn't cut the mustard, but that's okay, because copper does, and copper terminals are readily available.

Please note:  The last number is an exaggeration and not to be taken seriously.  I think you're way over tightening your previous battery terminals  and/or using the wrong size terminal.  It would explain why you're cracking your terminals and stripping out the bolts.

No, I don't use the wrong size terminal, and I've never stripped a battery terminal bolt. The bolts are steel. They aren't the problem; the soft lead is the problem. I tighten with a standard length combination wrench until it is tight. I don't strain or lean on it to get it "tight". Anything that can't stand up to a normal amount of tightening that would be appropriate for a bolt with a half-inch nut is junk and needs to be replaced with something that can. Copper can, and you get ~14 times the electrical conductivity of lead in the process. You don't think that lead is used for some battery terminals because it is better than copper, do you? It is definitely cheaper than copper.

[bill440rt]

OK, so some prefer lead, the other copper. Case closed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-k5J4RxQdE

Dino, let us know how you make out. 

[MaximRecoil]

OK, so some prefer lead, the other copper. Case closed.

Copper is objectively better than lead, with regard to performance, for the application of a battery terminal clamp, regardless of what people prefer. The main requirement of the application is to conduct high current electricity; copper conducts electricity ~14 times better than lead. Another requirement is durability; copper is far more durable than lead. Both of those things are facts.

The only advantage lead has over copper in this application is price; lead is far cheaper, and that price difference typically benefits the manufacturer a lot more than it does the customer. That of course has nothing to do with performance.

[Dino]

MaximRecoil, the alternator to starter relay length is about 5' with room for a bend or two.  The guy that makes those cables does not have a maxi fuse holder, although I will ask to be sure, so my plan was to get 6 feet so I could cut the cable and install the fuse holder myself.  That way the ends are still done properly.  I also measured 6 feet to loop down behind the alternator if I have to.  If the guy can install the fuse holder then I will get a total length of 5'.

I'll have to think about what to do with the battery cables so I'll keep you guys posted.

[Back N Black]

MaximRecoil and Stroker400 wedge your acting like 10 year old girls!

[MaximRecoil]

MaximRecoil, the alternator to starter relay length is about 5' with room for a bend or two.  The guy that makes those cables does not have a maxi fuse holder, although I will ask to be sure, so my plan was to get 6 feet so I could cut the cable and install the fuse holder myself.  That way the ends are still done properly.  I also measured 6 feet to loop down behind the alternator if I have to.  If the guy can install the fuse holder then I will get a total length of 5'.

I'll have to think about what to do with the battery cables so I'll keep you guys posted.

I see. The fuse holder (or fusible link) would normally be connected directly to the starter relay stud, but it won't really make a difference if you do it as you described. You should place the fuse holder as close to the starter relay end of the wire as you can though.

Better yet, you could not fuse that alternator to starter relay cable at all, and instead place a fuse on the battery post end of the factory 8 gauge wire that runs from the starter relay to the positive battery terminal. That way, there is no unprotected section of the two linked charging wires that combine to form the battery charging circuit. By placing the fuse at the starter relay, you still have that 8 gauge factory wire running from the starter relay to the battery which is unprotected. If a dead short happened on that wire, it could start a fire.

There should have been a fusible link or fuse there from the factory in the first place, but there wasn't.

MaximRecoil and Stroker400 wedge your acting like 10 year old girls!

Yes, because 10-year-old girls routinely debate the technical merits of various types of battery cable construction.

[Dino]

MaximRecoil, the alternator to starter relay length is about 5' with room for a bend or two.  The guy that makes those cables does not have a maxi fuse holder, although I will ask to be sure, so my plan was to get 6 feet so I could cut the cable and install the fuse holder myself.  That way the ends are still done properly.  I also measured 6 feet to loop down behind the alternator if I have to.  If the guy can install the fuse holder then I will get a total length of 5'.

I'll have to think about what to do with the battery cables so I'll keep you guys posted.

I see. The fuse holder (or fusible link) would normally be connected directly to the starter relay stud, but it won't really make a difference if you do it as you described. You should place the fuse holder as close to the starter relay end of the wire as you can though.

Better yet, you could not fuse that alternator to starter relay cable at all, and instead place a fuse on the battery post end of the factory 8 gauge cable that runs from the starter relay to the positive battery terminal. That way, there is no unprotected section of the two linked charging wires that combine to form the battery charging circuit. By placing the fuse at the starter relay, you still have that 8 gauge factory wire running from the starter relay to the battery which is unprotected. If a dead short happened on that wire, it could start a fire.

There should have been a fusible link or fuse there from the factory in the first place, but there wasn't.

You're right, there's only one fusible link on there and it's not going to the battery.  Hmm...so if I get this right, IF something goes wrong, the fuse between relay and battery will take the load and the cable between relay and alt is unaffected.  If something goes wrong while the fuse is between starter relay and alt then that cable is protected but I could still lose the 8 ga wire.?

[MaximRecoil]

You're right, there's only one fusible link on there and it's not going to the battery.  Hmm...so if I get this right, IF something goes wrong, the fuse between relay and battery will take the load and the cable between relay and alt is unaffected.  If something goes wrong while the fuse is between starter relay and alt then that cable is protected but I could still lose the 8 ga wire.?

If you get a dead short on the cable between the alternator and starter relay (which is the new one you're planning to install with a fuse on the starter relay end), the current will pull from the point of the dead short to the battery, which will pass through the fuse you installed and blow it, thus preventing a fire.

However, if you get a dead short on that factory 8 gauge wire between the starter relay and battery, there is no fuse between those two points, and because that 8 gauge wire will suddenly be called upon to handle ~900 amps, it will melt the wire and possibly start a fire.

Now, the new wire that you are adding between the alternator and the starter relay will be joined at the starter relay stud with the factory 8 gauge wire that goes from the starter relay stud to the battery, so these two wires effectively become one wire. So if you just put one fuse or fusible link at the battery end of that factory 8 gauge wire, then it protects the whole wire (i.e., the two wires that are effectively one wire), all the way from the alternator to the battery, no matter where a dead short may occur along that path.

As I said, the factory should have protected that 8 gauge starter relay to battery wire with a fusible link or fuse in the first place; it was bad practice not to do so.

[Dino]

You're right, there's only one fusible link on there and it's not going to the battery.  Hmm...so if I get this right, IF something goes wrong, the fuse between relay and battery will take the load and the cable between relay and alt is unaffected.  If something goes wrong while the fuse is between starter relay and alt then that cable is protected but I could still lose the 8 ga wire.?

If you get a dead short on the cable between the alternator and starter relay (which is the new one you're planning to install with a fuse on the starter relay end), the current will pull from the point of the dead short to the battery, which will pass through the fuse you installed and blow it, thus preventing a fire.

However, if you get a dead short on that factory 8 gauge wire between the starter relay and battery, there is no fuse between those two points, and because that 8 gauge wire will suddenly be called upon to handle ~900 amps, it will melt the wire and possibly start a fire.

Now, the new wire that you are adding between the alternator and the starter relay will be joined at the starter relay stud with the factory 8 gauge wire that goes from the starter relay stud to the battery, so these two wires effectively become one wire. So if you just put one fuse or fusible link at the battery end of that factory 8 gauge wire, then it protects the whole wire (i.e., the two wires that are effectively one wire), all the way from the alternator to the battery, no matter where a dead short may occur along that path.

As I said, the factory should have protected that 8 gauge starter relay to battery wire with a fusible link or fuse in the first place; it was bad practice not to do so.

Now I understand, thanks a bunch buddy!