Restore costs to bring back a 69' Dodge Charger

[Generalkiwi]

This topic came about from Mitch 69' restore thread, but to save hi-jacking his thread i have started this one, please feel free to comment and add your experience of the costs involved in restoring one of these amazing cars, this is for the benefit of people like myself who are about to start the journey so we can get more of an idea of what we are in for. Every case will be different i know but if it highlights some common expense pitfalls that come along when taking on a project like this , then that will surely help.  The post below i have taken from Mitch'e thread.

Hey Guys,

Yeah it would be great to talk numbers with others, especially for those about to head into a venture like a 69' Dodge Charger Restore , i myself am planning to do one soon and have a car lined up that i am looking at restoring (haven't purchased yet, still getting it assessed) . The figures i have been quoted are rough at this stage as the car hasn't been properly inspected. I will update the figures after inspection and hopefully have a more detailed estimate of what it will cost to bring it back to life.

My estimate is in NZ dollars (as that is where the restore will take place.) But the figures below are converted into US dollars to make things easier to compare.

Purchase cost of Car $12K
Panel/Paint man hourly rate = $49
Paint = $10.5K  (includes full rotisserie restore, spraying the underside of the car, boot, interior/exterior and engine bay and extra 01 and confederate flag graphics, this car is being restored as a General Lee)
Panel Work = $23K

Total without engine and trans $47.5K US

The car is in a pretty rough state but im told has all the parts. So add on top of that any replacement parts if required due to damage and then costs to re-build the motor and trans. (i am still looking into the cost of this)

So a total cost of $47.5K US just to buy the car and restore its looks but with no drive train,  not cheap to do!! , but then again we do it for the love of these old cars don't we. Would be interesting to compare dollar figure cost's of a 69' restore with anyone if they want to share their experience ?

Cheers
Kiwi

[remta1]

spend the time to find a good one all finished , it will save you a heap of time and headaches and plus you get to drive it sooner .Everyone will vouch that it always costs more than you budgeted for and longer than you thought to finish

[six-tee-nine]

Ok...... that sounds like alot of money.

Wanna share how you calculated that?  For instance i'm doing pretty much everything myself so I save alot on labour. However :

Start to count all these tiny costs of little pieces you need like for instance trim clips, body plugs, new bolts, replating/rechroming old stuff, weatherstripping and emblems and so on and on.

If your estimate is just sanding welding painting and nothing more you need to double your estimate for parts for the build up.
Oh and new zealand is far away so the term "shipping cost" will be your new devil. Trust me as a European I know.

Just ordered for $1200 AMD stuff shipping was another $300 and when this stuff arrives the government wants another 21% of that total of $1500.

[remta1]

yep they love to sting you with taxes  and I thought we were bad over here with 15 % tax ...ouch

[Generalkiwi]

Cheers guys, yes shipping of parts to NZ is a big one for me as that will cost me a premium because of the distance more than anything , as i said the car is still being inspected and i am told all the new panels are already there and waiting from the US to be fitted to the car, i have seen pics of the front grill and it looks mint , according to the owner all the parts are there and in good condition, but i will let my restore man assess that and come back to me , i am in the UK and the car will be restored over a 2 year period in NZ , the one good thing i have going for me is the exchange rate from pounds to NZ dollars so at least i win there.

I am not doing any of the hands on work as i will be in another country most of the time, so yes this will cost me more than it does alot of you guys who are alot more hands on with these projects, i am not able to be for this project for practical reasons. I have thought about waiting for one to come along that is in a very good condition but then again if i have it built myself i know whats been done and to what standard. I guess that is the difference, but that difference is what costs more, also if i wait for another one it will most likely have to come from the US , so i have to factor in another $3K US at least to ship it to NZ from the US plus registration costs in NZ when it gets there.

So all my costs quoted above are from the restore man and he and his team will be completing all the work on the car. (hence the cost)

[remta1]

yep you make a good point , I am hands on because that way I keep the costs down and I know exactly what is right and wrong ...less suprises if ya know what I mean what part of NZ are you origionally from ?

[Generalkiwi]

Te Puke , and you ??

[chargerboy69]

Panel work you have $23,000.00. . . .  Are you talking about welding on quarters, maybe a trunk floor?  That sure seems like a lot.  I just had quarters, trunk floor, and taillight panel replaced on my 69 Bee for $1500.00. . . . Now I supplied the parts. I feel $23000.00 is a bit high. Heck for another $7000.00 I would sell you my car. 

[Generalkiwi]

Panel work you have $23,000.00. . . .  Are you talking about welding on quarters, maybe a trunk floor?  That sure seems like a lot.  I just had quarters, trunk floor, and taillight panel replaced on my 69 Bee for $1500.00. . . . Now I supplied the parts. I feel $23000.00 is a bit high. Heck for another $7000.00 I would sell you my car. 

Hey Charger boy,

The current quote is for an un-sighted car, its gone off photos so far and what he "thinks" it may cost, i asked for a potential worst case scenario quote from my him and that he what he gave me so far, as i said once he has visited the car and checked it over in person, i will have a more detailed quote to work with, and hopefully not as expensive!

Cheers
Kiwi

[elacruze]

Your estimate is pretty close to my experience. You can certainly find huge differences in labor rates but you get what you pay for if you don't do it yourself.

[Generalkiwi]

Cheers mate, i have seen this guys work and will be speaking to previous clients also, i'm pretty happy with what i believe he will do finish wise. He has also had some of his restored cars featured on the cover of NZ V8 magazine, so that also is nice to know.

[polywideblock]

I'm doing the same thing to a 71 roadrunner in Australia using a "known" restorer and it's going to cost $35k Aus. for 2 full quarters /media blast body ,repair and repaint in its original fc7 and I'm suppling the quarters /trunk extensions/ outer wheel houses   all AMD (through Elko ) + decals and seals about another 4k . but I purchased it in 09 and have driven the wheels off before putting in for resto , what remta1  said          find a driver and enjoy for a while get your leftdrive on a right hand road nicks and scratches on the old paint and get used to driving it   before doing the resto   

[Mike DC]

                  
I think it was Jay Leno who recently said this: "If you are restoring cars, and making a profit at it, then you aren't doing it right."  

There's a lot of truth in that.  The restoration process is INHERENTLY a money-loser.  The only time you come out ahead is compared to buying a "restored" car and then finding out you got badly ripped off.  (Either that, or else you are restoring a car with an extremely valuable VIN number which has somehow evaded a restoration for the last 20 years.)



Embarking on a known money-losing operation just to avoid the possibility of getting ripped off is not a great plan IMHO.  Plenty of us (including me) have done it, but that doesn't make it a good idea financially.  

In fact, if you did get ripped off for a complete car . . .  a lot of times you might still come out ahead by selling it at a loss & buying a different nice car, rather than restoring the ripoff. 


----------------------------------


If you have the money then buy a complete good body to start with.  Sheetmetal repairs and the general fit & finish are the most thankless things to try to improve on a car.  You are better off paying extra for a car with a nice paintjob you don't want and respraying over it.  It beats paying to fix up a rough car to get its first paintjob.


Do your research, spend some money having a few strong candidates investigated, and buy a decent complete car to start with.  Its not what you might want to hear but it's the best advice I could give you.  You just cannot predict all the unexpected stuff that will cost more than you thought during a resto.

[Challenger340]

[remta1]

Te Puke , and you ??

Deep south ..Dunedin     ki ora

[Generalkiwi]

                 
I think it was Jay Leno who recently said this: "If you are restoring cars, and making a profit at it, then you aren't doing it right."  

There's a lot of truth in that.  The restoration process is INHERENTLY a money-loser.  The only time you come out ahead is compared to buying a "restored" car and then finding out you got badly ripped off.  (Either that, or else you are restoring a car with an extremely valuable VIN number which has somehow evaded a restoration for the last 20 years.)



Embarking on a known money-losing operation just to avoid the possibility of getting ripped off is not a great plan IMHO.  Plenty of us (including me) have done it, but that doesn't make it a good idea financially.  

In fact, if you did get ripped off for a complete car . . .  a lot of times you might still come out ahead by selling it at a loss & buying a different nice car, rather than restoring the ripoff. 


----------------------------------


If you have the money then buy a complete good body to start with.  Sheetmetal repairs and the general fit & finish are the most thankless things to try to improve on a car.  You are better off paying extra for a car with a nice paintjob you don't want and respraying over it.  It beats paying to fix up a rough car to get its first paintjob.


Do your research, spend some money having a few strong candidates investigated, and buy a decent complete car to start with.  Its not what you might want to hear but it's the best advice I could give you.  You just cannot predict all the unexpected stuff that will cost more than you thought during a resto.

Thanks for the honest feedback mate and that advice has been taken on board, gives me alot to think about! , this car is the only one i will restore and i will keep it forever, it won't be done to make money and i guess that is why i am considering going down this path, to be honest i don't want to take a mint beauty like Challengers new "bruce" that he just bought and turn that into a General Lee, that i just can't do, i would rather bring back a beat up old rusty and turn that into a General. hmmmmmmm alot to think about!

Cheers mate

[Generalkiwi]

I don't want to hijack your thread, but it seems to me maybe it would be better to locate an already done car, or, beat the bushes until an original un-restored in good shape pops up ?
just saying, they ARE out there ?

I bought this one yesterday for $23K, I think I did OK ?? ...see here at the end of this thread for Pictures.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,104412.0.html

Mate that car looks awesome! .... to be honest though and as i said to Mike, i don't want to take a beauty like your "bruce" and turn that into a General Lee, that i just can't do and it wouldn't be right to change such a mint car, i would rather bring back a beat up old rusty and turn that into a General, but then again it may cost me a packet to do it. I guess what i need it a 69' with a mint body and a crap faded paint job that way i won't have to spend a packet doing the bodywork , but can then paint it as a General. That would be the best way to go i guess.

Cheers mate

[Mike DC]

I guess what i need it a 69' with a mint body and a crap faded paint job that way i won't have to spend a packet doing the bodywork , but can then paint it as a General. That would be the best way to go i guess.

That would be a good way to go.  

But it's kind of like saying, "What I need to find is an undervalued stock market investment that will be going way up soon."  Yeah, you and everybody else in the market is looking for that kind of score.    


I don't mean to be too discouraging.  I'm just trying to be realistic with you about how the old car hobby works.  Scruffy, complete, rust-free 1969 Chargers stopped being cheap in a long time.  IMHO you should just focus your efforts on finding a good overall condition car for the money, be it faded or shiny.

[myk]

                 
I think it was Jay Leno who recently said this: "If you are restoring cars, and making a profit at it, then you aren't doing it right."  

There's a lot of truth in that.  The restoration process is INHERENTLY a money-loser.  The only time you come out ahead is compared to buying a "restored" car and then finding out you got badly ripped off.  (Either that, or else you are restoring a car with an extremely valuable VIN number which has somehow evaded a restoration for the last 20 years.)



Embarking on a known money-losing operation just to avoid the possibility of getting ripped off is not a great plan IMHO.  Plenty of us (including me) have done it, but that doesn't make it a good idea financially.  

In fact, if you did get ripped off for a complete car . . .  a lot of times you might still come out ahead by selling it at a loss & buying a different nice car, rather than restoring the ripoff. 


----------------------------------


If you have the money then buy a complete good body to start with.  Sheetmetal repairs and the general fit & finish are the most thankless things to try to improve on a car.  You are better off paying extra for a car with a nice paintjob you don't want and respraying over it.  It beats paying to fix up a rough car to get its first paintjob.


Do your research, spend some money having a few strong candidates investigated, and buy a decent complete car to start with.  Its not what you might want to hear but it's the best advice I could give you.  You just cannot predict all the unexpected stuff that will cost more than you thought during a resto.

Thanks for the honest feedback mate and that advice has been taken on board, gives me alot to think about! , this car is the only one i will restore and i will keep it forever, it won't be done to make money and i guess that is why i am considering going down this path, to be honest i don't want to take a mint beauty like Challengers new "bruce" that he just bought and turn that into a General Lee, that i just can't do, i would rather bring back a beat up old rusty and turn that into a General. hmmmmmmm alot to think about!

Cheers mate

If limited funds and resources are an issue, the best route is to buy a car in the best condition, yes even a car like "Bruce," and then have your way with that car.  Why?  Because, with limited funds and resources it's going to be worlds harder to "bring back" a car than it would be to take a car like "Bruce" and then pursue your dream-Charger; yes, even if it means turning "Bruce" into a GL clone.  I realize people want to resurrect and preserve, but if you don't have the means to bring back a car then buying one in good shape is the more logical way to go.  Besides, there are plenty of concours-correct Chargers out there with matching this, matching that, Hemi this, 4 speed that, for the sake of Mopar history and legend-let the common Mopar folks like us enjoy our cars and chase our dream Chargers...

[pippo702]

Hi Generalkiwi!
well,talking about restorations outside U.S. in my case we reached 40k euros (car and related shipping and taxes and parts with theirs shipping and taxes too..)
We still don't know the total amount of the labour because is undergoing and my partner in this is the owner of half of the auto body shop where thee car is being restored so we'd have to give a cut of the total to the other owner....
anyway ,we are at circa 280 hours at a rate of 30 € hourly wich is a friendly rate..normally itwould be around 60€per hour

[Homerr]

Pippo, that's some serious work on your car!

280 hours * 60 euro/hr = 16,800 euro or $22,176 usd

[bull]

Contact these guys. http://www.smithbrosrestorations.com/ They can do anything you need to get a General Lee,  from free advice to a fully restored car shipped to your front door.

[Generalkiwi]

Contact these guys. http://www.smithbrosrestorations.com/ They can do anything you need to get a General Lee,  from free advice to a fully restored car shipped to your front door.

Cheers Bull, i have spoken with them and a General Lee done by them was quoted starting at $75K or so (US dollars) , i can build one cheaper in NZ due to the cheaper hourly rate and conversion from british pounds to NZ dollars. I'm not looking for the cheapest option, but then again if i can have exactly the same car done for $20K US less in on place compared to another place then i would be silly not to look at that.

Thanks for the suggestion , much appreciated!

Kiwi

[Generalkiwi]

Hi Generalkiwi!
well,talking about restorations outside U.S. in my case we reached 40k euros (car and related shipping and taxes and parts with theirs shipping and taxes too..)
We still don't know the total amount of the labour because is undergoing and my partner in this is the owner of half of the auto body shop where thee car is being restored so we'd have to give a cut of the total to the other owner....
anyway ,we are at circa 280 hours at a rate of 30 € hourly wich is a friendly rate..normally itwould be around 60€per hour

Thanks for sharing costs pippo , appreciate the input, yes i to am looking at building one outside of the US like you, so its nice to hear about your experience and costs involved in shipping which are a big expense for us compared to the US folk who build these. Did you have to import alot of parts for yours or was it mostly complete when you got it ??...what was the rough condition of the car when you started ??, ie total rust bucketand complete resto needed, or fairly mint with only small rust patches that needed fixing and then you re-sprayed it?

40K Euros is really getting up there!

kiwi

[hemi-hampton]

Pippo, that's some serious work on your car!

280 hours * 60 euro/hr = 16,800 euro or $22,176 usd

280 Hours is nothing, I've spent 1,000 + hours on many Resto's. LEON.