Restore costs to bring back a 69' Dodge Charger

[Generalkiwi]

This topic came about from Mitch 69' restore thread, but to save hi-jacking his thread i have started this one, please feel free to comment and add your experience of the costs involved in restoring one of these amazing cars, this is for the benefit of people like myself who are about to start the journey so we can get more of an idea of what we are in for. Every case will be different i know but if it highlights some common expense pitfalls that come along when taking on a project like this , then that will surely help.  The post below i have taken from Mitch'e thread.

Hey Guys,

Yeah it would be great to talk numbers with others, especially for those about to head into a venture like a 69' Dodge Charger Restore , i myself am planning to do one soon and have a car lined up that i am looking at restoring (haven't purchased yet, still getting it assessed) . The figures i have been quoted are rough at this stage as the car hasn't been properly inspected. I will update the figures after inspection and hopefully have a more detailed estimate of what it will cost to bring it back to life.

My estimate is in NZ dollars (as that is where the restore will take place.) But the figures below are converted into US dollars to make things easier to compare.

Purchase cost of Car $12K
Panel/Paint man hourly rate = $49
Paint = $10.5K  (includes full rotisserie restore, spraying the underside of the car, boot, interior/exterior and engine bay and extra 01 and confederate flag graphics, this car is being restored as a General Lee)
Panel Work = $23K

Total without engine and trans $47.5K US

The car is in a pretty rough state but im told has all the parts. So add on top of that any replacement parts if required due to damage and then costs to re-build the motor and trans. (i am still looking into the cost of this)

So a total cost of $47.5K US just to buy the car and restore its looks but with no drive train,  not cheap to do!! , but then again we do it for the love of these old cars don't we. Would be interesting to compare dollar figure cost's of a 69' restore with anyone if they want to share their experience ?

Cheers
Kiwi

[remta1]

spend the time to find a good one all finished , it will save you a heap of time and headaches and plus you get to drive it sooner .Everyone will vouch that it always costs more than you budgeted for and longer than you thought to finish

[six-tee-nine]

Ok...... that sounds like alot of money.

Wanna share how you calculated that?  For instance i'm doing pretty much everything myself so I save alot on labour. However :

Start to count all these tiny costs of little pieces you need like for instance trim clips, body plugs, new bolts, replating/rechroming old stuff, weatherstripping and emblems and so on and on.

If your estimate is just sanding welding painting and nothing more you need to double your estimate for parts for the build up.
Oh and new zealand is far away so the term "shipping cost" will be your new devil. Trust me as a European I know.

Just ordered for $1200 AMD stuff shipping was another $300 and when this stuff arrives the government wants another 21% of that total of $1500.

[remta1]

yep they love to sting you with taxes  and I thought we were bad over here with 15 % tax ...ouch

[Generalkiwi]

Cheers guys, yes shipping of parts to NZ is a big one for me as that will cost me a premium because of the distance more than anything , as i said the car is still being inspected and i am told all the new panels are already there and waiting from the US to be fitted to the car, i have seen pics of the front grill and it looks mint , according to the owner all the parts are there and in good condition, but i will let my restore man assess that and come back to me , i am in the UK and the car will be restored over a 2 year period in NZ , the one good thing i have going for me is the exchange rate from pounds to NZ dollars so at least i win there.

I am not doing any of the hands on work as i will be in another country most of the time, so yes this will cost me more than it does alot of you guys who are alot more hands on with these projects, i am not able to be for this project for practical reasons. I have thought about waiting for one to come along that is in a very good condition but then again if i have it built myself i know whats been done and to what standard. I guess that is the difference, but that difference is what costs more, also if i wait for another one it will most likely have to come from the US , so i have to factor in another $3K US at least to ship it to NZ from the US plus registration costs in NZ when it gets there.

So all my costs quoted above are from the restore man and he and his team will be completing all the work on the car. (hence the cost)

[remta1]

yep you make a good point , I am hands on because that way I keep the costs down and I know exactly what is right and wrong ...less suprises if ya know what I mean what part of NZ are you origionally from ?

[Generalkiwi]

Te Puke , and you ??

[chargerboy69]

Panel work you have $23,000.00. . . .  Are you talking about welding on quarters, maybe a trunk floor?  That sure seems like a lot.  I just had quarters, trunk floor, and taillight panel replaced on my 69 Bee for $1500.00. . . . Now I supplied the parts. I feel $23000.00 is a bit high. Heck for another $7000.00 I would sell you my car. 

[Generalkiwi]

Panel work you have $23,000.00. . . .  Are you talking about welding on quarters, maybe a trunk floor?  That sure seems like a lot.  I just had quarters, trunk floor, and taillight panel replaced on my 69 Bee for $1500.00. . . . Now I supplied the parts. I feel $23000.00 is a bit high. Heck for another $7000.00 I would sell you my car. 

Hey Charger boy,

The current quote is for an un-sighted car, its gone off photos so far and what he "thinks" it may cost, i asked for a potential worst case scenario quote from my him and that he what he gave me so far, as i said once he has visited the car and checked it over in person, i will have a more detailed quote to work with, and hopefully not as expensive!

Cheers
Kiwi

[elacruze]

Your estimate is pretty close to my experience. You can certainly find huge differences in labor rates but you get what you pay for if you don't do it yourself.

[Generalkiwi]

Cheers mate, i have seen this guys work and will be speaking to previous clients also, i'm pretty happy with what i believe he will do finish wise. He has also had some of his restored cars featured on the cover of NZ V8 magazine, so that also is nice to know.

[polywideblock]

I'm doing the same thing to a 71 roadrunner in Australia using a "known" restorer and it's going to cost $35k Aus. for 2 full quarters /media blast body ,repair and repaint in its original fc7 and I'm suppling the quarters /trunk extensions/ outer wheel houses   all AMD (through Elko ) + decals and seals about another 4k . but I purchased it in 09 and have driven the wheels off before putting in for resto , what remta1  said          find a driver and enjoy for a while get your leftdrive on a right hand road nicks and scratches on the old paint and get used to driving it   before doing the resto   

[Mike DC]

                  
I think it was Jay Leno who recently said this: "If you are restoring cars, and making a profit at it, then you aren't doing it right."  

There's a lot of truth in that.  The restoration process is INHERENTLY a money-loser.  The only time you come out ahead is compared to buying a "restored" car and then finding out you got badly ripped off.  (Either that, or else you are restoring a car with an extremely valuable VIN number which has somehow evaded a restoration for the last 20 years.)



Embarking on a known money-losing operation just to avoid the possibility of getting ripped off is not a great plan IMHO.  Plenty of us (including me) have done it, but that doesn't make it a good idea financially.  

In fact, if you did get ripped off for a complete car . . .  a lot of times you might still come out ahead by selling it at a loss & buying a different nice car, rather than restoring the ripoff. 


----------------------------------


If you have the money then buy a complete good body to start with.  Sheetmetal repairs and the general fit & finish are the most thankless things to try to improve on a car.  You are better off paying extra for a car with a nice paintjob you don't want and respraying over it.  It beats paying to fix up a rough car to get its first paintjob.


Do your research, spend some money having a few strong candidates investigated, and buy a decent complete car to start with.  Its not what you might want to hear but it's the best advice I could give you.  You just cannot predict all the unexpected stuff that will cost more than you thought during a resto.

[Challenger340]

[remta1]

Te Puke , and you ??

Deep south ..Dunedin     ki ora

[Generalkiwi]

                 
I think it was Jay Leno who recently said this: "If you are restoring cars, and making a profit at it, then you aren't doing it right."  

There's a lot of truth in that.  The restoration process is INHERENTLY a money-loser.  The only time you come out ahead is compared to buying a "restored" car and then finding out you got badly ripped off.  (Either that, or else you are restoring a car with an extremely valuable VIN number which has somehow evaded a restoration for the last 20 years.)



Embarking on a known money-losing operation just to avoid the possibility of getting ripped off is not a great plan IMHO.  Plenty of us (including me) have done it, but that doesn't make it a good idea financially.  

In fact, if you did get ripped off for a complete car . . .  a lot of times you might still come out ahead by selling it at a loss & buying a different nice car, rather than restoring the ripoff. 


----------------------------------


If you have the money then buy a complete good body to start with.  Sheetmetal repairs and the general fit & finish are the most thankless things to try to improve on a car.  You are better off paying extra for a car with a nice paintjob you don't want and respraying over it.  It beats paying to fix up a rough car to get its first paintjob.


Do your research, spend some money having a few strong candidates investigated, and buy a decent complete car to start with.  Its not what you might want to hear but it's the best advice I could give you.  You just cannot predict all the unexpected stuff that will cost more than you thought during a resto.

Thanks for the honest feedback mate and that advice has been taken on board, gives me alot to think about! , this car is the only one i will restore and i will keep it forever, it won't be done to make money and i guess that is why i am considering going down this path, to be honest i don't want to take a mint beauty like Challengers new "bruce" that he just bought and turn that into a General Lee, that i just can't do, i would rather bring back a beat up old rusty and turn that into a General. hmmmmmmm alot to think about!

Cheers mate

[Generalkiwi]

I don't want to hijack your thread, but it seems to me maybe it would be better to locate an already done car, or, beat the bushes until an original un-restored in good shape pops up ?
just saying, they ARE out there ?

I bought this one yesterday for $23K, I think I did OK ?? ...see here at the end of this thread for Pictures.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,104412.0.html

Mate that car looks awesome! .... to be honest though and as i said to Mike, i don't want to take a beauty like your "bruce" and turn that into a General Lee, that i just can't do and it wouldn't be right to change such a mint car, i would rather bring back a beat up old rusty and turn that into a General, but then again it may cost me a packet to do it. I guess what i need it a 69' with a mint body and a crap faded paint job that way i won't have to spend a packet doing the bodywork , but can then paint it as a General. That would be the best way to go i guess.

Cheers mate

[Mike DC]

I guess what i need it a 69' with a mint body and a crap faded paint job that way i won't have to spend a packet doing the bodywork , but can then paint it as a General. That would be the best way to go i guess.

That would be a good way to go.  

But it's kind of like saying, "What I need to find is an undervalued stock market investment that will be going way up soon."  Yeah, you and everybody else in the market is looking for that kind of score.    


I don't mean to be too discouraging.  I'm just trying to be realistic with you about how the old car hobby works.  Scruffy, complete, rust-free 1969 Chargers stopped being cheap in a long time.  IMHO you should just focus your efforts on finding a good overall condition car for the money, be it faded or shiny.

[myk]

                 
I think it was Jay Leno who recently said this: "If you are restoring cars, and making a profit at it, then you aren't doing it right."  

There's a lot of truth in that.  The restoration process is INHERENTLY a money-loser.  The only time you come out ahead is compared to buying a "restored" car and then finding out you got badly ripped off.  (Either that, or else you are restoring a car with an extremely valuable VIN number which has somehow evaded a restoration for the last 20 years.)



Embarking on a known money-losing operation just to avoid the possibility of getting ripped off is not a great plan IMHO.  Plenty of us (including me) have done it, but that doesn't make it a good idea financially.  

In fact, if you did get ripped off for a complete car . . .  a lot of times you might still come out ahead by selling it at a loss & buying a different nice car, rather than restoring the ripoff. 


----------------------------------


If you have the money then buy a complete good body to start with.  Sheetmetal repairs and the general fit & finish are the most thankless things to try to improve on a car.  You are better off paying extra for a car with a nice paintjob you don't want and respraying over it.  It beats paying to fix up a rough car to get its first paintjob.


Do your research, spend some money having a few strong candidates investigated, and buy a decent complete car to start with.  Its not what you might want to hear but it's the best advice I could give you.  You just cannot predict all the unexpected stuff that will cost more than you thought during a resto.

Thanks for the honest feedback mate and that advice has been taken on board, gives me alot to think about! , this car is the only one i will restore and i will keep it forever, it won't be done to make money and i guess that is why i am considering going down this path, to be honest i don't want to take a mint beauty like Challengers new "bruce" that he just bought and turn that into a General Lee, that i just can't do, i would rather bring back a beat up old rusty and turn that into a General. hmmmmmmm alot to think about!

Cheers mate

If limited funds and resources are an issue, the best route is to buy a car in the best condition, yes even a car like "Bruce," and then have your way with that car.  Why?  Because, with limited funds and resources it's going to be worlds harder to "bring back" a car than it would be to take a car like "Bruce" and then pursue your dream-Charger; yes, even if it means turning "Bruce" into a GL clone.  I realize people want to resurrect and preserve, but if you don't have the means to bring back a car then buying one in good shape is the more logical way to go.  Besides, there are plenty of concours-correct Chargers out there with matching this, matching that, Hemi this, 4 speed that, for the sake of Mopar history and legend-let the common Mopar folks like us enjoy our cars and chase our dream Chargers...

[pippo702]

Hi Generalkiwi!
well,talking about restorations outside U.S. in my case we reached 40k euros (car and related shipping and taxes and parts with theirs shipping and taxes too..)
We still don't know the total amount of the labour because is undergoing and my partner in this is the owner of half of the auto body shop where thee car is being restored so we'd have to give a cut of the total to the other owner....
anyway ,we are at circa 280 hours at a rate of 30 € hourly wich is a friendly rate..normally itwould be around 60€per hour

[Homerr]

Pippo, that's some serious work on your car!

280 hours * 60 euro/hr = 16,800 euro or $22,176 usd

[bull]

Contact these guys. http://www.smithbrosrestorations.com/ They can do anything you need to get a General Lee,  from free advice to a fully restored car shipped to your front door.

[Generalkiwi]

Contact these guys. http://www.smithbrosrestorations.com/ They can do anything you need to get a General Lee,  from free advice to a fully restored car shipped to your front door.

Cheers Bull, i have spoken with them and a General Lee done by them was quoted starting at $75K or so (US dollars) , i can build one cheaper in NZ due to the cheaper hourly rate and conversion from british pounds to NZ dollars. I'm not looking for the cheapest option, but then again if i can have exactly the same car done for $20K US less in on place compared to another place then i would be silly not to look at that.

Thanks for the suggestion , much appreciated!

Kiwi

[Generalkiwi]

Hi Generalkiwi!
well,talking about restorations outside U.S. in my case we reached 40k euros (car and related shipping and taxes and parts with theirs shipping and taxes too..)
We still don't know the total amount of the labour because is undergoing and my partner in this is the owner of half of the auto body shop where thee car is being restored so we'd have to give a cut of the total to the other owner....
anyway ,we are at circa 280 hours at a rate of 30 € hourly wich is a friendly rate..normally itwould be around 60€per hour

Thanks for sharing costs pippo , appreciate the input, yes i to am looking at building one outside of the US like you, so its nice to hear about your experience and costs involved in shipping which are a big expense for us compared to the US folk who build these. Did you have to import alot of parts for yours or was it mostly complete when you got it ??...what was the rough condition of the car when you started ??, ie total rust bucketand complete resto needed, or fairly mint with only small rust patches that needed fixing and then you re-sprayed it?

40K Euros is really getting up there!

kiwi

[hemi-hampton]

Pippo, that's some serious work on your car!

280 hours * 60 euro/hr = 16,800 euro or $22,176 usd

280 Hours is nothing, I've spent 1,000 + hours on many Resto's. LEON.

[69 ROCKET]

Ive been quoted between $30k-$40K to replace both rear quarters, full front floor pan, trunk pan and full tub in the rear including paint. It doesnt include any panels, ive just spent $7k on all the panels, full glass kit, front and rear bumpers and glass chrome trims. The going hourly rate is $88 inc. GST (Tax) per hour for labour. Also shipping is a killer here in Australia too. Its not a cheap hobby unfortunately.

[Dino]

Ive been quoted between $30k-$40K to replace both rear quarters, full front floor pan, trunk pan and full tub in the rear including paint. It doesnt include any panels, ive just spent $7k on all the panels, full glass kit, front and rear bumpers and glass chrome trims. The going hourly rate is $88 inc. GST (Tax) per hour for labour. Also shipping is a killer here in Australia too. Its not a cheap hobby unfortunately.

Are those quotes from a collision shop?  That is always a bad option for a job like this, a resto shop can give you a better deal not to mention a better job.  Of course if there's none around or they have a long wait list then it's a moot point.

Take a few non credit college classes in metal work and you'll be able to do it yourself with very little cost.

[Charger440RDN]

For $30-$40 you could definitely find a rust free original charger on craigslist. You see plain jane 68-70 Chargers selling for $15-20k all the time on craigslist in decent condition. Here is a 1969 on Ebay for $15,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-Charger-/121170101106?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1c364d0372

[69 ROCKET]

Ive been quoted between $30k-$40K to replace both rear quarters, full front floor pan, trunk pan and full tub in the rear including paint. It doesnt include any panels, ive just spent $7k on all the panels, full glass kit, front and rear bumpers and glass chrome trims. The going hourly rate is $88 inc. GST (Tax) per hour for labour. Also shipping is a killer here in Australia too. Its not a cheap hobby unfortunately.

Are those quotes from a collision shop?  That is always a bad option for a job like this, a resto shop can give you a better deal not to mention a better job.  Of course if there's none around or they have a long wait list then it's a moot point.

Take a few non credit college classes in metal work and you'll be able to do it yourself with very little cost.

I've had 4 different quotes from shops that only do restorations. All said I wont have any change left out of $35K for panel and paint. Im going to get a guy that does only metal/panel restos and fabrication work to remove rust and replace the panels ive supplied. He thinks it'll cost me around the $20k to do what i want done.
As for the paint, everybody starts at $10k up to $50K depending on how crazy of a paint job you want. All i want is a basic gloss black.
If i had more time id try and do some of the work myself.

[myk]

40 grand?  You could buy a Charger for that much...

[polywideblock]

once you start paying 40 k up for a car over seas you wind up paying the money you would have saved in panel work  on gst(10% on total spent including shipping  packing etc )  import duty's shipping etc and if it hits a certain point( about 55k I think ) you have luxury vehicle tax as well.  just another  one of the joys of wanting American cars in Australia.   

[Dino]

Ive been quoted between $30k-$40K to replace both rear quarters, full front floor pan, trunk pan and full tub in the rear including paint. It doesnt include any panels, ive just spent $7k on all the panels, full glass kit, front and rear bumpers and glass chrome trims. The going hourly rate is $88 inc. GST (Tax) per hour for labour. Also shipping is a killer here in Australia too. Its not a cheap hobby unfortunately.

Are those quotes from a collision shop?  That is always a bad option for a job like this, a resto shop can give you a better deal not to mention a better job.  Of course if there's none around or they have a long wait list then it's a moot point.

Take a few non credit college classes in metal work and you'll be able to do it yourself with very little cost.

I've had 4 different quotes from shops that only do restorations. All said I wont have any change left out of $35K for panel and paint. Im going to get a guy that does only metal/panel restos and fabrication work to remove rust and replace the panels ive supplied. He thinks it'll cost me around the $20k to do what i want done.
As for the paint, everybody starts at $10k up to $50K depending on how crazy of a paint job you want. All i want is a basic gloss black.
If i had more time id try and do some of the work myself.

I am shocked.  Thins sure have changed when I was in the business.  Paint has always been a rip off, it does not take much time nor investment to paint a car.  Prep on the other hand....

[Charger440RDN]

Seriously $40-50 grand is way to much toward a restoration. For that kind of money these days you could probably find an original RT Charger, prices have come down a lot.

[gibb5y]

is that the white one that's on Trademe? seems like a cheap enough asking price esp if he throws in the panels.

[69 ROCKET]

For $30-$40 you could definitely find a rust free original charger on craigslist. You see plain jane 68-70 Chargers selling for $15-20k all the time on craigslist in decent condition. Here is a 1969 on Ebay for $15,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Dodge-Charger-/121170101106?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1c364d0372

Very true, but after i pay shipping, taxes and then begin the build process the way i want, im back to square one. I picked my charger up in Australia for $13.5k so im ahead by at least $10K on most people bringing them into the country.

[69 ROCKET]

Ive been quoted between $30k-$40K to replace both rear quarters, full front floor pan, trunk pan and full tub in the rear including paint. It doesnt include any panels, ive just spent $7k on all the panels, full glass kit, front and rear bumpers and glass chrome trims. The going hourly rate is $88 inc. GST (Tax) per hour for labour. Also shipping is a killer here in Australia too. Its not a cheap hobby unfortunately.

Are those quotes from a collision shop?  That is always a bad option for a job like this, a resto shop can give you a better deal not to mention a better job.  Of course if there's none around or they have a long wait list then it's a moot point.
Take a few non credit college classes in metal work and you'll be able to do it yourself with very little cost.

I've had 4 different quotes from shops that only do restorations. All said I wont have any change left out of $35K for panel and paint. Im going to get a guy that does only metal/panel restos and fabrication work to remove rust and replace the panels ive supplied. He thinks it'll cost me around the $20k to do what i want done.
As for the paint, everybody starts at $10k up to $50K depending on how crazy of a paint job you want. All i want is a basic gloss black.
If i had more time id try and do some of the work myself.

I am shocked.  Thins sure have changed when I was in the business.  Paint has always been a rip off, it does not take much time nor investment to paint a car.  Prep on the other hand....

It seems to be the going rates unfortunately, ive spent to much on parts now not to go ahead with the build.

[Generalkiwi]

is that the white one that's on Trademe? seems like a cheap enough asking price esp if he throws in the panels.

Yeah it is mate, but i think the price is on the high side to be honest, it looks in potentially pretty bad shape and the interior looks like quite a mess with alot of parts missing, also i don't know what sort of shape the panels are in that he claims he will throw in. The pictures don't help much as they are not good, i might send a panel man in for a a look that i know and trust, see what he says, also the owner doesn't have it registered for NZ roads which is a huge concern, apparently he is doing this now,but he doesn't have the American pink slip ownership papers either, might end up being one to stay clear of, will see how it goes.

Cheers
Kiwi

[six-tee-nine]

once you start paying 40 k up for a car over seas you wind up paying the money you would have saved in panel work  on gst(10% on total spent including shipping  packing etc )  import duty's shipping etc and if it hits a certain point( about 55k I think ) you have luxury vehicle tax as well.  just another  one of the joys of wanting American cars in Australia.   

Luxury vehicle tax....

Oh boy If one of our ministries would be reading this we would see that one soon.... I  thought it hardly could get worse but maybe it can.....

[pippo702]

Pippo, that's some serious work on your car!

280 hours * 60 euro/hr = 16,800 euro or $22,176 usd

Well..since my wife works there and her boss is my partner in this,the rate i've been applied is 30€ per hour..but,still..it's big money..

[pippo702]

Hi Generalkiwi!
well,talking about restorations outside U.S. in my case we reached 40k euros (car and related shipping and taxes and parts with theirs shipping and taxes too..)
We still don't know the total amount of the labour because is undergoing and my partner in this is the owner of half of the auto body shop where thee car is being restored so we'd have to give a cut of the total to the other owner....
anyway ,we are at circa 280 hours at a rate of 30 € hourly wich is a friendly rate..normally itwould be around 60€per hour

Thanks for sharing costs pippo , appreciate the input, yes i to am looking at building one outside of the US like you, so its nice to hear about your experience and costs involved in shipping which are a big expense for us compared to the US folk who build these. Did you have to import alot of parts for yours or was it mostly complete when you got it ??...what was the rough condition of the car when you started ??, ie total rust bucketand complete resto needed, or fairly mint with only small rust patches that needed fixing and then you re-sprayed it?

40K Euros is really getting up there!

kiwi

Just take a look! 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,101326.0.html

[pippo702]

Hi Generalkiwi!
well,talking about restorations outside U.S. in my case we reached 40k euros (car and related shipping and taxes and parts with theirs shipping and taxes too..)
We still don't know the total amount of the labour because is undergoing and my partner in this is the owner of half of the auto body shop where thee car is being restored so we'd have to give a cut of the total to the other owner....
anyway ,we are at circa 280 hours at a rate of 30 € hourly wich is a friendly rate..normally itwould be around 60€per hour

I forgot to say that in the amount for parts,drive train is included..we went for a new transmission and a stroker kit..

[green69rt]

Thanks, Kiwi for starting this.  I'm gone 10 days and all hell breaks loose!!  Excellent idea on your part.  Most of my info will be in my thread but I'll try to post some stuff in yours also.  Now for the next reply.

[green69rt]

As Kiwi mentioned I am in the process and I will add my experience and comments. 

It would have been much cheaper to buy a restored car outright, I can't argue with that.  For me, that was not the goal.   I had several reasons.

1) this was a retirement project/hobby/whatever,,, for me. 
2) I will be creating a car from my youth so it has special meaning for me.
3) I have no interest in numbers matching, originality, etc., etc., etc.  If anything you could call me an old time hot rodder.
4) I am willing to pay what it takes, up to a limit.  I don't want to spend a fortune but I want something I will be proud of.
5) I take pride in doing things myself, so that will save money.

All this said, it's still an expensive hobby.


Just so you can see what I'm up to here is the link to my car...

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,54582.new.html#new

[SnoPro440]

I sold mine almost a year ago to a guy in Auckland. It was just under US$40k.  
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,92867.msg1076143.html#msg1076143

Believe me, I had a hell of a lot more $ than that into to it.  Be patient and buy one that is done.

[C500]

I wouldn't touch the white one on trademe. You'll sink a lot more dough into that car than you could by buying a more honest charger to restore or one already done.

Import one yourself, or get someone to do it for you. I've imported 2 x 68's and a 69 into NZ now.

[Bob T]

 Gidday Kiwi from another local boy, bit further north than Te Puke , originally Waiuku, learnt to surf at Kariotahi haha.
Now Auckland based and right into the local Mopar scene
Don't buy the white one just cause its here and available, search out and find the right one to import.

Cheers mate, i have seen this guys work and will be speaking to previous clients also, i'm pretty happy with what i believe he will do finish wise. He has also had some of his restored cars featured on the cover of NZ V8 magazine, so that also is nice to know.

I'm guessing you mean Ian, very good at what he does and a genuinely nice guy. Love his Hemi Coronet. That aside, get the best car you can for the money as it will cost less in the long run to get it where you want it. I brought mine in Dec 2011 and even though the majority of the body was good it still took 6months and considerable fun coupons to get it legal. And not trying to tackle a full on project timeframe project either. A local mate of mine has a real nice 4spd stroker GL , neat car too, he got it painted locally after finding it as an unfinished father and son project in the States.
Flick us a pm for some shipping agents if you want

Oh, and welcome to the best Dodge Charger site on the net!

[Generalkiwi]

Thanks to all for the great advice and comments contributing towards this thread. It has been invaluable for me and has helped me alot in deciding what to do. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

Just speaking for myself and someone who has limited funds i find myself making the decision that i will have to buy a a car that is already finished or nearly finished. Basically i came to this conclusion after reading/receiving comments from members who have already gone down the path of buying an old car and restoring it, thus highlighting to me the reality of the costs involved (and time) in doing a resto. I don't want to take anything away from those awesome members on here who have painstakingly and at great costs restored some of these cool old cars, you guys are amazing, i enjoy reading your threads and have great respect for you, your skills and wallets are something i am envious of to say the least!.

Basically i am someone who is not rich has a limited budget for this project , i have dreamed of owning one of these amazing cars since i was just a kid, watching the dukes of hazzard and playing with the matchbox car version on dirt tracks behind the house. I cannot afford the many hidden surprises that seem to rear there heads when restoring one of these old gems. Had i the skills,time and funds i would go down the restoration path for sure, but sadly for me this is not an option.

So thankyou once again to all for your honest feedback on your experience (resto or straight out purchase) ....now i just need to wait for the right car to come along!

Cheers
Mike

[green69rt]

Pippo, that's some serious work on your car!

280 hours * 60 euro/hr = 16,800 euro or $22,176 usd

280 Hours is nothing, I've spent 1,000 + hours on many Resto's. LEON.

No personal experience yet but I've heard and been quoted anywhere from 1000 to 1500 hours for a full restoration.  That is not doing any work yourself and does not include parts and materials.   That's got to be a big reason only the rarest and most valuable cars get a "full rotisserie" job.  All the rest of us have to do what we can to keep costs down.

[Dino]

1000-1500 is the rough industry standard.  Unfortunately there are many 'standards' in restoration itself.  'Good' or 'perfect' is a very relative term.

[green69rt]

1000-1500 is the rough industry standard.  Unfortunately there are many 'standards' in restoration itself.  'Good' or 'perfect' is a very relative term.

Yeah, the costs are all over the map.  Sharing info helps but there's still a wide variation.   Still I won't criticize someone paying a lot of money for the car they want;  I will share info that may help them save a buck.

Another thought, how many people buy a new car as an investment, not me?   I don't expect to get my investment back out of my car,  but it's fun to build, drive and own and that counts to me.

[green69rt]

This is a direct cut-and-paste from my restoration thread, gulp!!!


"
Just got back from the shop. I had a long conversation and crawled around under the car for about an hour.   Basic problem is that the shop estimated $15,000 to fix the body.   That included correcting some measurements that were already to within 1/8" of the FSM diagram.   Some were out 1/2" around the position of the rear spring hangers.   Biggest problem is still the front end frame.

So, the car will come home and I'm going to see what I can do.  Cost was way to high for me to leave it in their shop.   Even after I deleted all the stuff that was really ok, the cost was still around $9000 to fix the front frame, and I think they forgot some parts.  Their plan was to cut off the complete front clip and replace it with new stuff and tack everything in place, hang the fenders and hood and doors and when everything looked good ;weld it back together.   I got to believe I can do it for less.  So next thing is to call the tow company and schedule the shipment.

Just for grins, I also asked what the paint job was going to be.......another $15,000 which includes $5000 for materials.   Is that a reasonable number!!!!?

So now I'm just sitting here thinking how strong a drink to fix (maybe 2 or 3.)
"

[fy469rtse]

69 rocket , do what I do , find some that ship to Australia , they will always find room in there containers for your heavy stuff  or large items like panels , try Russell trainoir at just mustangs in Melbourne , honest guy , always been a great help to me

[1974dodgecharger]

I sold mine almost a year ago to a guy in Auckland. It was just under US$40k.  
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,92867.msg1076143.html#msg1076143

Believe me, I had


a hell of a lot more $ than that into to it.  Be patient and buy one that is done.

He got a nice deal too after I read your mods u done wow.

Your new challenger I take it in avatar with charger money?

[69 ROCKET]

69 rocket , do what I do , find some that ship to Australia , they will always find room in there containers for your heavy stuff  or large items like panels , try Russell trainoir at just mustangs in Melbourne , honest guy , always been a great help to me

Thanks fy469rtse. I calculated buying all the parts/panels from the US and worked out shipping to Aus, then I found a few suppliers in Aus with the same parts/panels and compared totals. I wasn't really saving a great deal of money buying from the US suppliers, so I bought everything from a supplier in Victoria who looked after me as i practically was buying half a car from them.

[green69rt]

Just adding some info on how much it is costing me to completely rebuild my rear end.

Parts are from Dr Diff.

Third member with SG/3.91 gears - $1200
Rear drum brake assembly (10 x 2 1/2") - $350
New break lines -$75
Gaskets and bearings - $110
Powder coat case - $225
Bearing retainer/adjuster - $25(from ebay)
Labor - (no bill yet.)

So a little over $2k to get an almost brand new rear end.   That's getting real close for a brand new Strange Engineering S60 rear except mine has all new brakes and lines and theirs does not include these.  I couldn't tell if the Strange housing is powder coated.

[green69rt]

Just got my Charger back from paint.  Here in Houston the restoration shops seem to charge from $60-$85/hr for labor and they don't differentiate between skilled and helpers.  My car went to a shop that was $75/hr.  Most of the cost in the paint shop was for disassembly, blocking, wet sanding, masking.  I haven't added up the hours but I would guess there were 200 hrs spent.  The actual primer and paint steps only took about 20-30 hours.   This shop rolls the cost of materials into their hourly rate.   I saw no charge for paint on my invoices.   The painter did put 6 coats on, three base and three clear.  They also picked the car up and delivered it for free.   

The car still needs final "cut and buff".  I bet another 40 hours, so $3000.  Total is going to be between $15k - $20K, probably closer to the top end.  This is more than my new Colorado pickup cost 12 years ago.   

[comet_666]

I was lucky and after 200 hrs his $75/hr rate went down to $40. Close to 400 hrs total and that was after all the sheet metal was replaced beforehand.
Not a cheap "hobby" to be in that is for sure.

[BrianShaughnessy]

I literally throw away the receipts so I don't know how much I had into Sinnamon... 

But the basics are: 
rotted, seized up high school '69 Charger.   $7550 ( delivered ).
AMD / etc.   $10K   (estimate)
body and paint (estimate) $20K
engine / trans / exhaust $5K
interior $5K.

If I'm low... good!     I really didn't want to know.

[1974dodgecharger]

hahahhahahahahahahhahahaaahhahahahahhaha 

[darbgnik]

I did up a little spreadsheet a few weeks ago, and only itemized the big pieces, like metal, bumpers, paint, and purchase price. I found out that I actually didn't want to know.....

[1974dodgecharger]

60k for my 1st build......

sold some stuff off say roughly only 20k off 1st build and now rebuilding 2nd time.....

will throw 65k total on 2nd build so....

in total minus 20k..

meh lets say 100k to 110k for misc stuff and mine was no where near showroom it was a crappy build and built by my hands....

good luck.....

[charger_fan_4ever]

Id actually be surprised if any shop would resurrect a rotted out old car for less than 40k in parts and material.

Most rusty chargers figure on 10k in AMD metal
5k interior
engine trans rear end 5-10k
suspension brakes exhaust tires another 5k
20k metal/body work
3k or so in materials (paint primer welding wire gas ect)


I dont think there has ever been a time that you could "rebuild" a car for less than buying a finished one.

Problem with buying a finished one is making sure its not a pig with lipstick on. id say most "running driving" project cars or turn key cars have a lot of filler in them hiding issues with the metal underneath.

Basically unless you have photo evidence of the metal/body work you could be buying a pig with lipstick that requires actually more work than a rusty project car in boxes as you will have to tear the whole thing apart and start over.

[pipeliner]

Id actually be surprised if any shop would resurrect a rotted out old car for less than 40k in parts and material.

Most rusty chargers figure on 10k in AMD metal
5k interior
engine trans rear end 5-10k
suspension brakes exhaust tires another 5k
20k metal/body work
3k or so in materials (paint primer welding wire gas ect)


I dont think there has ever been a time that you could "rebuild" a car for less than buying a finished one.

Problem with buying a finished one is making sure its not a pig with lipstick on. id say most "running driving" project cars or turn key cars have a lot of filler in them hiding issues with the metal underneath.

Basically unless you have photo evidence of the metal/body work you could be buying a pig with lipstick that requires actually more work than a rusty project car in boxes as you will have to tear the whole thing apart and start over.

Your short on the interior, drivetrain. I'd add at least another $7K if your lucky

[ht4spd307]

to retrim an interior 10k now days i know its my living unless you tackle it yourself

[70B5Cuda]

That's why I've gravitated toward minimal interior and patina'd paint...

[pipeliner]

That's why I've gravitated toward minimal interior and patina'd paint...

Whatever you like. Me personally I'm going overboard. I love a spotless interior. I'm installing everything new for my interior. If your just making short cuts to save money you will never be happy with it. That's why I'm going on 7 years with my restoration but if the ratty look satisfies you then I say go for it.

[Challenger340]

A little off topic.... but I think this thread around the costs involved in restoration, highlights the "why" behind some of the prices in the delusional seller's thread ?
and,
the even stupider prices attached to the still factory original UN-restored examples still remaining really good condition ?

[Mike DC]

I dont think there has ever been a time that you could "rebuild" a car for less than buying a finished one.

Which is why the factories all use assembly lines and brand new parts.