'68 Charger with '66 B-Body turn signal switch?

[cjw916]

This whole saga begins with my '68 not canceling when I signaled to the right. I drove it like that for years, finally, my friend told me it was a simple broken cancel cam in the directional switch, an easy swap.

I ordered the part for my '68 and I was sent an SM15. http://www.classicindustries.com/mopar/parts/sm15.html This DID NOT look like the cancel cam in my car, and in fact, would NOT work as a swap. So I perused eBay for Charger Cancel Cam, and I came up with an SM9 that matched mine exactly! Ordered one, it fit perfectly, all lamps lit properly, brake light, directionals, problem solved.

The difference between the SM15 and the SM9 was that the SM15 has a triangular 'hook', that catches on another triangular 'ramp' on the switch base, when you move the lever to signal. The cancel 'spring finger', when pressed by the returning steering wheel, pushes on the hook to unhook it from the ramp, centering the switch again. The SM9 has no hook, only a circular 'post', that rocks over an M-shaped 'ramp' on the switch base, catching on the other side of the ramp. Then the cancel spring finger gently rocks the post back over the ramp to center the cam once done signaling. This design provides for very light signaling action. There is no 'snap' when you move the lever, only a pleasant bump as the post slides over the ramp. Manually canceling a lane change signal is 'one-finger' effortless.

[cjw916]

A year later my friend says, hey, only one set of your tail lights light up when you brake. I knew this was a symptom of a bad signal switch or cancel cam. So I ordered a new SM9, installed it, brake light still not illuminating? The contactors on my switch base were badly worn, so I bent the wires on the backside of my cancel cam away from the plastic, a bit, to make better connection with the contactors. Bingo, problem solved again! 

Then I went & installed hood flasher lamps, and I noticed that they sometimes skip a beat when flashing. I realized my temporary wire bending fix was not going to last, so I ordered a '67-'69 turn signal switch from MegaParts for $50; http://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=114%2D190080 Guy emails me, part has been back-ordered for months, he doesn't expect new stock any time soon. 

So I ordered a new '67-'69 turn signal switch from Classic Industries http://www.classicindustries.com/mopar/parts/md2139.html for $115 https://www.yearone.com/Product/1966-74-a-b-e-body/fd47801 (Year One was $176 for the identical looking part!). Finally, I'm going to fix it correctly! It arrived & oddly enough, it does not look like the 'white' switch I took out, but resembles the incorrect switch they sent me when I ordered my first cancel cam? All of the wiring connectors are the correct square type, so I figure they improved the design, for the better, and I installed the new 'yellow' switch. This new yellow switch cam very closely resembles the SM15 cam, it has the hook & ramp mechanism design. 

I installed the switch, blinkers work, brake light work when not signaling, but my brake lights DO NOT work when I signal! ! ! I gently wiggled the signal lever with foot on brake pedal while signaling, and the brake light illuminates! If I signal right, then hang the weight of my finger on the lever, so the switch doesn't rotate CW quite so much, all works as it should. Same thing to the left, only I gotta slightly lift the lever so that it does not rotate CCW quite so much. This is NOT GOOD. Who wants to be guessing WHEN & IF their brake lights are working properly?

Also, gone is the smooth effortless signaling action. Signal right, and the switch snaps & locks. Turning the wheel cancels the switch & it returns to center. Same thing to the left. The hook & ramp design has done away with the smooth post & ramp action I was used to, which would be OK, but when signaling to lane change, it is annoyingly complex; click to signal, go to cancel by hand because slight wheel movement does not cancel, and I accidentally signal the other direction, as the effort to un-hook from the ramp snaps me clear across to signal the other direction! WTH?

[cjw916]

Then I start looking at a couple different sites, AND THERE IT IS! My post & ramp design switch! The sites both say it is for the '62-'66 A&B-Body. It has the same 7 wire leads coming out of it, they're even the same colors! Only difference is, the square wire terminals are now the flat 'spring blade' style connectors. (I can swap wire terminal connectors, that's easy.) The '66 switch even has the same baseplate design as the switch that came out of my car, with a 4th mounting hole in the plastic right next to the hole located about 3 o'clock. And it very probably appears to be the post & ramp design! (Pics are not super-high resolution.)

The problem is, I already ordered another '68 switch from a different supplier, Jim's Auto Parts, http://www.jimsautoparts.com/electric.htm for $110! The lady on the phone assured me she's never had a call-back complaining of the no-brake-light action like I encountered, not in 30 years! Oh, BTW, all electrical parts are non-returnable. But, her switch looks very suspiciously identical to the one I bought from Classic Industries! This last pic shows the back side, but that looks like the yellow hook & ramp cancel cam on the front. Ugh! Update, switch came FedEx today, IT IS the exact same switch that Classic Industries sells, obviously everyone has the same supplier.

Dilemma. . . I want the smooth signal & cancel action that I HAD before! Lane changes should not be SO complicated. If I order a '62-'66 cam ($55 from MegaParts http://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=114%2D190085 if it's in stock, otherwise
http://www.jimsautoparts.com/electric.htm $155 from Jim's Auto Parts) now I'm close to $400 in, trying to fix what should've been a $10 headache.

Has anyone else struggled with this problem? The brake lights not working with the new 'yellow' switch?

Did someone install a '66 switch in my car? Did it possibly come that way from the factory?

Does anyone know a supplier for the post & ramp style switch that I prefer?

Thanks for any help or insight you guys might have?

Christopher

[cjw916]

Success!

The first pic is my old ramp style blinker switch. The second pic is the 62-66 Mopar switch I got from Mega Parts, only $55! The third pic is of the rear, you can see the M-shaped ramp and post design. The fourth pic is the switch as if you were signaling left. No signal is center of M. Other side of M would be signaling right.

[cjw916]

The '62-'66 switch comes with spades instead of the little square springy guys that insert into each other. No big deal. It comes with a connector so you can re-use the squares & put female blades on the other end of them, to receive the blades in the white connector. I didn't take a pic of the white connector that mates to the black one, this pic just was me testing to make sure all worked properly before I installed the switch in the column.

[cjw916]

Empty column awaiting new switch. The wires coil around the column from 11 to 7 where it exits down the column to under the dash. The leads are just long enough to snap into the white connector, and mate to the black connector finishing off the install.

The last pic is very important. The silver pivot was the new pivot that came with the switch. It mic'd at .429" O.D., the black pivot that came with the yellow switch that I tossed, mic'd at .434" O.D. The silver pivot left a little play in the signal lever, so I pulled the switch back out to install the slightly larger OD black pivot. Great, lever slop was gone, but now my brake lights did not light! Pulled it back out, the black pivot was 1.103" long, the silver pivot is only 1.093" long! So the wires on the backside of the cancel cam were not contacting to allow the brake lamps to work! Even worse, look at the shoulder on the two pivots, the silver pivot is much thicker (a couple additional hundredths, min), this would push the switch base toward the cancel cam to help with wire contact.

I solved the problem by using my old switch's pivot, which fit even more snugly, and was the same length as the silver piece!

Everything works correctly, every time, no hiccups!

Mega Parts to the rescue!

[Dino]

Good stuff!   

I have the megaparts switch as well, the one that's out of stock.  Everything works fine but I have aground issue somewhere as the dash and hood indicator will illuminate from time to time, albeit pretty dimly so.  I'll find it when I tackle the rest of the electrical.

[cjw916]

Dino,

I believe there is a hood to body ground strap? My car did not have it, but I think it mounts above the master cylinder. There's a threaded stud on my firewall, there. That might help?

Also, did your switch have the hook & ramp style cancel cam, like the yellow pic, or the post & M-shaped ramp like my white cam? Every switch I saw for '68-'69 was that yellow locking repro. (Which I think sux.)

[Dino]

Dino,

I believe there is a hood to body ground strap? My car did not have it, but I think it mounts above the master cylinder. There's a threaded stud on my firewall, there. That might help?

Also, did your switch have the hook & ramp style cancel cam, like the yellow pic, or the post & M-shaped ramp like my white cam? Every switch I saw for '68-'69 was that yellow locking repro. (Which I think sux.)

The cam is white and looks identical to the stock cam. 

I've never heard of that strap not do I see the use for it as the bolts holding hood to body are the ground but I'll look for that.

I do recall now that my ds hood turn signal is no longer working because the ground wire came off.  It is missing the bracket holding the lens in place, which takes care of the ground, so the po glued it in and ran a separate ground wire, maybe fixing that part will fix the rest.   

[Rudderguy]

I know this is an old topic...but I have just run into the exact same issue with my 68 RT. I has the the M style ramp and post design.  The cams listed for a 68 without tilt or cornering lights is the not the correct one.  The SM-9 cam is the one the resembles the one that is worn.  But...since I am digging in there I think I will just replace both sides and do the entire switch.

I cant tell from the sites as this is an older post....but can anyone decipher which product from what supplier matches the ramp and post design switch that I have like in this original post?

Thx

[tonyskala]

Hey I am confused.
I have 68 charger. It to some degree has been Frankinstiened. One problem has led to another on this thing. It started with a separated brake liner that led to 4 wheel disk brake conversion that led complete and total front end suspension rebuild that now has led to the steering column.
So I have managed to take the thing out and it is not as complicated as it looks or sounds. I am in the process of rebuilding it completely. I am really confused on the turn signal switch.
I am not sure that this was the original column in the car. Lots of the seals and gaskets were missing. The upper column cover has been notched very sloppily by a grinder to facilitate a cam with he hazards on column. It did not work and the dash hazards controlled the flashers.
When I turned the wheel periodically the horn would honk. Looking at this thing I want to fix it correctly but the switches I find say 68 charger w/o tilt and w/o cornering lights. Are corning lights the side markers on the left and right side of the fenders? Are they the lights on the left and right side of the bottom front valence?
Then looking at the switch mine ( It doesn't appear to be correct for the car) has a spring loaded pin to contact a copper plate for the horn. I see some have a rolling wheel in place of it?  Is the roller pin a better one?