Manual drums better than manual discs?

[bull]

I heard this from a friend today, a friend who's also into muscle cars and owns a transmission shop. I took my Charger over there to have him check out a noise in the rear end and during the test drive I told him I converted the front to disc brakes but didn't add a power booster. He became concerned about that and said he thought manual drums are actually better/safer than manual discs because it takes less effort to push shoes outward against a drum than to squeeze pads against a disc. I didn't argue but I disagree with that assertion, especially when you consider the heat and fade drums are notorious for.

Have you ever heard this? I know manual disc brakes are not the norm so maybe there won't be many opinions about it but I'd like to get some speculation I guess. The brakes seem fine to me even though I'm still getting used to the car. Aside from the practical, I also like the fact that's it's one more thing that's different and unique about the car.

[Fred]

I'm sorry but in my opinion, I think he's nuts to think so. If that would be the case then why aren't todays cars still running drum brakes? 

You go down a long hill with drum brakes and see what happens. 

[Dino]

Both systems work fine when set up properly.  Both have pros and cons, only one will fade like my winning lottery hopes and kill you.

You've got discs, you made the right call.   

[resq302]

I'm sorry but in my opinion, I think he's nuts to think so. If that would be the case then why aren't todays cars still running drum brakes? 

You go down a long hill with drum brakes and see what happens. 

Quite true but at the same time, why do you not see manual disc brakes on cars today?  Possibly due to the extra effort required to squeeze and stop the brakes vs. the easier outward pressure.

[HPP]

For the same reason you see fewer and fewer manual transmissions...people are lazy.

Yes, drums do self energize when you push on the pedal, have zero drag, and are somewhat lighter than a disc set up, which would make them great for a drag car. But for repetitive stop and go driving and the fact you need to stop as quickly as the car in front of you with 14" rotors, I'd stay with discs on a street car.

[tan top]

I'm sorry but in my opinion, I think he's nuts to think so. If that would be the case then why aren't todays cars still running drum brakes?  

You go down a long hill with drum brakes and see what happens.  

Quite true but at the same time, why do you not see manual disc brakes on cars today?  Possibly due to the extra effort required to squeeze and stop the brakes vs. the easier outward pressure.

yeah that's the answer , discs require more   pressure to operate ,    manual discs  have / should have a smaller bore master  cylinder , as far as I know  ,

bigger/ heavier the car   will have a  smaller bore master cylinder , giving more pedal pressure per given amount of pedal pressing by driver , smaller lighter car will have a bigger bore master cylinder ,  to reduce  wheels locking in a panic situation , with power brakes  , there are  lots of variables  to this .
disc brakes need more pedal force to achieved the same as drums , but will slow the car better not as easy to lock up , unlike drums where you just lock up & slide   not done a good job explaining this I know    

[71charger_fan]

"Power" brakes don't develop more line pressure, they just take less pedal effort. I have manual disks on the '71 and love them.

[John_Kunkel]

"Power" brakes don't develop more line pressure, they just take less pedal effort.

Too many variables (MC diameter, pedal ratio, booster size) to state that as an absolute rule. With the same pedal force and pedal travel a properly-matched power combo will develop 25-30% more line pressure.

[68CoronetRT]

Manual disk brakes are fine as long as you have the correct master. My car is manual front disk and has a nice firm pedal feel.

I run 100% manual disk brakes on my race car and went through all this when setting up the front and rear masters. It really depends on the bore size/pedal travel length/pedal ratio and weight of the vehicle, which others have stated.

[Budnicks]

Manual disk brakes are fine as long as you have the correct master. My car is manual front disk and has a nice firm pedal feel.

I run 100% manual disk brakes on my race car and went through all this when setting up the front and rear masters. It really depends on the bore size/pedal travel length/pedal ratio and weight of the vehicle, which others have stated.

well said   , I had manual SSBC discs Force 10 calipers drum to disc Rotor conversion on my last 68 RR, a little pricey, but it was fine, maybe a little more effort on the peddle than the drums, but no fade when they were warm, like the drums would after a couple hard stops or 1/4 mile passes in a row, hot lapping, cornering or going down steep hills... I went 158mph in the 1/4 & they stopped great, with no issues at all, I drove it on the street allot too, maybe not the "lightest things" {like a Willwood, Baer or some other pro-touring style brake} but good all around breaking... I live in the Sierra's, allot of breaking on curvy roads or up & down steep hills/roads, I have the same set up for my current car too, still need to install, I loved them on the other car & I tend to stick with what works well for me...  

[1974dodgecharger]

mine were converted to discs up front and i kept the manual with 2 resevoirs.


they brake so much better, granted i dont do touring stuff but like the look of touring cars.

[bull]

I haven't driven a car with drum brakes on the front in a long, long time so I can't really compare. There is some obvious merit to the notion that a power booster will give you more stopping power in a front- or four-wheel disc brake car, but to say a manual drum car is better than a manual disc car? I just don't buy it.

[1974dodgecharger]

I haven't driven a car with drum brakes on the front in a long, long time so I can't really compare. There is some obvious merit to the notion that a power booster will give you more stopping power in a front- or four-wheel disc brake car, but to say a manual drum car is better than a manual disc car? I just don't buy it.

Drove one last year....all manual with drums and man its fckin scary....did not want to stop it felt like.

[Cooter]

Dude needs to stick transmissions cause he don't know dick about brakes...
Only time I've EVER heard ANYBODY choose drum over disc is on a drag car cause the theory is that one can back off the adjustment for no drag and get more ET out of car...I counter this with what good is another 10mph if you can't stop the damn thing on the big end...

[ws23rt]

Dude needs to stick transmissions cause he don't know dick about brakes...
Only time I've EVER heard ANYBODY choose drum ovet disc is on a drag car cause the theory is that one can back off the adjustment for no drag and get more ET out of car...I counter this with what good is another 10mph if you can't stop the damn thing on the big end...

I have to agree   And this is not a comfort issue about how the peddle feels as much as it's about safety.

Btw I cringe about losing another front grill.  The repop Issue is still out there

[Fred]

Dude needs to stick transmissions cause he don't know dick about brakes...
Only time I've EVER heard ANYBODY choose drum ovet disc is on a drag car cause the theory is that one can back off the adjustment for no drag and get more ET out of car...I counter this with what good is another 10mph if you can't stop the damn thing on the big end...

I have to agree  And this is not a comfort issue about how the peddle feels as much as it's about safety.

Btw I cringe about losing another front grill.  The repop Issue is still out there

You got that right. That's the last thing that I'd want to damage. And with what's out there driving around these days is pretty scary. Half of them shouldn't even be behind the wheel. For me it's knowing that I've got a relatively good chance of stopping before hitting anything.

[bull]

Yeah, it's a real bummer that the grill is usually the first thing to show up at the scene of a crash.

[elacruze]

Humbug.

Drum brakes are fine if you don't live in the mountains or drive like Kowalski.

That said, Discs have no disadvantage unless you're stopping something very, very heavy like OTR trucks or mining equipment.

[John_Kunkel]

In theory, drum brakes have the potential to stop a vehicle quicker because of the larger surface area of the brake lining...problem is drum brakes fade quickly so the advantage is lost after about the first second of braking.

[375instroke]

Drums are lighter than discs?  I weighed one drum brake assembly, and it was 54#.  I had a '76 3/4 ton manual disc van that stopped fine.  My Darts with manual discs work great.  My drum cars are ok for anything under 50MPH.  A 70mph stop in the Charger is scary the last 20MPH when the brakes are gone, and the clowns that keep hitting the brakes on a downhill grade, making me ride my brakes, gets unnerving at the end of the hill at the stop light.  I personally hate power brakes.  Always feels like I'm stepping on a balloon or something.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Yesterday I converted my '68 Coronet from manual front drum brakes to manual front disc brakes. This is without a doubt the best thing I've done to this car since I bought it seven months ago!

I spent considerable time attempting to get the original front drum brakes to stop straight and smoothly. New shoes, new wheel cylinders, I had the drums turned twice, even bought another set of drums and had them turned, adjusted and readjusted the shoes, and finally got them to operate and stop evenly at slower speeds, but no matter what I did I could not eliminate the drums from distorting once they got hot!
I have owned a '69 Super Bee with manual front drum brakes for 20 years so fade is something I've learned to deal with, but the shudder/vibration on the '68 made for a dangerous situation.
I bit the bullet, bought and installed the new Disc brakes and finally the '68 stops evenly and smoothly, even from high speeds.

No, manual drums are not better than manual discs!

[chargerrtmikey]

Nothing wrong with drum brakes if working properly and you can drive

[Cooter]

Yesterday I converted my '68 Coronet from manual front drum brakes to manual front disc brakes. This is without a doubt the best thing I've done to this car since I bought it seven months ago!

I spent considerable time attempting to get the original front drum brakes to stop straight and smoothly. New shoes, new wheel cylinders, I had the drums turned twice, even bought another set of drums and had them turned, adjusted and readjusted the shoes, and finally got them to operate and stop evenly at slower speeds, but no matter what I did I could not eliminate the drums from distorting once they got hot!
I have owned a '69 Super Bee with manual front drum brakes for 20 years so fade is something I've learned to deal with, but the shudder/vibration on the '68 made for a dangerous situation.
I bit the bullet, bought and installed the new Disc brakes and finally the '68 stops evenly and smoothly, even from high speeds.

No, manual drums are not better than manual discs!

[el dub]

Nothing wrong with drum brakes if working properly and you can drive

I believe this is exactly correct. These cars would not have made it to market if the brakes were no good.

[HPP]

No, and in context of the era, they were probably superior to other banr's offerings. However, in today's commuter world, they are inadequate.

[Budnicks]

Yesterday I converted my '68 Coronet from manual front drum brakes to manual front disc brakes. This is without a doubt the best thing I've done to this car since I bought it seven months ago!

I spent considerable time attempting to get the original front drum brakes to stop straight and smoothly. New shoes, new wheel cylinders, I had the drums turned twice, even bought another set of drums and had them turned, adjusted and readjusted the shoes, and finally got them to operate and stop evenly at slower speeds, but no matter what I did I could not eliminate the drums from distorting once they got hot!
I have owned a '69 Super Bee with manual front drum brakes for 20 years so fade is something I've learned to deal with, but the shudder/vibration on the '68 made for a dangerous situation.
I bit the bullet, bought and installed the new Disc brakes and finally the '68 stops evenly and smoothly, even from high speeds.

No, manual drums are not better than manual discs!

exactly correct, disc's are much better brakes...

[Cooter]

We go through this on another site like the GL threads here.

Drum brakes, bias ply tires, no A/C, manual steering, no crumple zones, air bags, etc. All came about because people multiplied both sheer numbers and stupidity. Just watch that soccer mom in that big ole SUV in the lane next to you on your morning commute if you think all these out dated things have a place in todays traffic.

[TXcharger70]

Yesterday I converted my '68 Coronet from manual front drum brakes to manual front disc brakes. This is without a doubt the best thing I've done to this car since I bought it seven months ago!

I spent considerable time attempting to get the original front drum brakes to stop straight and smoothly. New shoes, new wheel cylinders, I had the drums turned twice, even bought another set of drums and had them turned, adjusted and readjusted the shoes, and finally got them to operate and stop evenly at slower speeds, but no matter what I did I could not eliminate the drums from distorting once they got hot!
I have owned a '69 Super Bee with manual front drum brakes for 20 years so fade is something I've learned to deal with, but the shudder/vibration on the '68 made for a dangerous situation.
I bit the bullet, bought and installed the new Disc brakes and finally the '68 stops evenly and smoothly, even from high speeds.

No, manual drums are not better than manual discs!

I would have to I agree. I as well just did the same exact switch and just with one test drive under my belt it has been the best decision  I have made. I now have trust in the ability that I will stop instead anticipating before hand when to stop