Survivor cars

[ws23rt]

In the Lambrecht Collection thread the term survivor cars came up a few times but the thread is such a mess I thought the topic deserved a clean thread.

In the quest to appraise cars the most common approach is condition 1-5 but when it comes to survivor cars does that same condition scale apply?

Lets say a charger was found with 40K on the clock and it was well cared for stored inside etc. The car was maintained and serviced with belts hoses replaced as needed. Looks and runs like a new car with 40 thousand miles on it.

Another charger (same options for the sake of discussion) with 50 miles on the clock but this one spent a lot of it's life outside and the paint is faded surface rust on the unpainted items and dirt. All original everything including fluids and has not run for 40years.

How should an appraiser deal with this sort of thing.  Should a value scale be devised for survivors?

I recall looking at a new lamborghini in a show room in the 60s-- It was roped off and the sales man didn't like me getting close--don't touch kid-- but whats up with the dirt clods on the floor in the car----thats Italian dirt was the response    Hmm added value?

[C_stripes]

To me, the terms "survivor" and "barn find" mean nothing anymore. They are both VERY over used. I would say that a clean 40k car that is as you mentioned should be called a "very nice original" and one that is 50 miles but a project is just that, a "low mileage unmolested project".

People now think "barn find" is a sales term, so they see a car that has been sitting next to someone's house for three years and it's a "barn find".

Meaningless words anymore if you ask me...

[Cooter]

To me, the terms "survivor" and "barn find" mean nothing anymore. They are both VERY over used. I would say that a clean 40k car that is as you mentioned should be called a "very nice original" and one that is 50 miles but a project is just that, a "low mileage unmolested project".

People now think "barn find" is a sales term, so they see a car that has been sitting next to someone's house for three years and it's a "barn find".

Meaningless words anymore if you ask me...

Yeaup.....

[tan top]

 yep what they said , 

[ws23rt]

So from an appraisers point of view would the 40K mile car have more selling value than the 50 mile car?
They both could use a complete resto to be mint.  About the same amount of work.

I suppose my question is does an original reference quality car need to stay as is to hold whatever value that it has being unmolested?

[69 OUR/TEA]

Most "barn find"cars were cars that sat outside,then were dragged into the barn/garage for the pics  to throw out the words "barn find" to try and amp up the sale !!!!!

My take is this on calling a car a survivor,it most definatly should be orig paint and complete matching numbers.Of course new brakes/belts/hoses/wipers/tires/radiator,etc is ok as those were maintenance/safety items. If it was repainted,or the engine was replaced,then it didn't "survive",something happened to it .

Also,if it does still have orig paint,should be presentable enough to bring to a cruise night or car show,not some 70k+ mile car loaded with dents,rust,faded orig paint,etc,that doesn't count,(just because it's orig paint),IMO.

My 68 Coronet 440 that I had was a 22k orig mile car, paint getting thin,door dings,quarter size rust hole in front fender,grungy eng bay/suspension.Low mile car..yes,survivor,I say no......so resto it was.I did not rebuild the eng/tranny/rear,just regasket/detailing/painting,so that allowed me to still be able to call it a 22k mile car,but was not a survivor anymore.

[ws23rt]

When I was bringing my Hemi Coronet up to running condition these questions were on my mind.

I recovered the drivers seat because of a rip in the seat. The rest of the interior are original and nice.
The car needed paint and mechanical refresh. I don't consider it to be unmolested by any means but 95% of the car did not need attention. No rust and no wrecks.
50K on the car.   Maybe it is just too unusual to fit into accepted appraisal standards.

[bill440rt]

Condition is everything. 

[Cooter]

"Survivor" to me means it survived without nobody messin with it. In ANY FORM aside from keeping it on the road.
You change a major thing like paint, body panels, drivetrain, interior, glsss etc. Then it aint a survivor, just another repainted, well maintained car.

[ws23rt]

"Survivor" to me means it survived without nobody messin with it. In ANY FORM aside from keeping it on the road.
You change a major thing like paint, body panels, drivetrain, interior, glsss etc. Then it aint a survivor, just another repainted, well maintained car.

Cooter---You are the best reality check on this site.  To the point and make good (horse) sense.

I suppose those that care about original dirt are so few that they may as well be dismissed as being too few and too anal.

[bill440rt]

Did you say... dismissed? 

[bill440rt]

Just to clarify, my comment about condition is everything was meant to apply to survivor-type cars. Meaning, one that is in good condition will surely be more desirable then another affected by the elements. 
(I wanted to stay on topic...) 

[myk]

Like anything else, it's all relative IMO.  On one extreme I'm sure there are people that would say that as long as the frame and shell are original and intact then the car is a "survivor."  Others might say that unless the car has factory gas in the tank, factory air in the tires, factory windshield wiper blades and boogers from the factory workers smeared in the wheel wells, then the car has been irrevocably changed and is no longer a survivor...

[F8-4life]

It seems as time goes on these terms get dilluted more & more.
In 1980 a survivor might mean something else then in 2013.
Of course barn-find is now used to describe & perhaps "amp-up" any project found in decay.
Once these cars get to be around 50 or so years old I think you will see more "survivor-projects", used to describe a unmolested project but still needing resto.

[el dub]

I think the term is just a sales gimmick. Survivor:1.  To remain alive or in existence.

2.  To carry on despite hardships or trauma.  3.  To remain functional or usable

Any charger that didn't go to the crusher would be a survivor. Cars that are just like they came off the show room floor are original. Stock.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

Survivor, Barn Find, and Sports Car, are three of the most overused words, ever in car world...

But there is this one, which came from a barn, and is a survivor, setting the benchmark, IMO:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,74322.0.html

But most of the junk which has the words above, are gross exaggerations