Operation light her up... won't light

[2Luke2]

We cleaned up, primed the engine, setup the fans. We then moved the #1 piston to TDC. We installed the oil shaft and then we tried to stab the dizzy(firecore), but for some reason it wouldn't fully seat, so we took the dizzy out and then the shaft and oiled it some more and put it back it. It still wouldn't seat all the flat. So we were going to bump the car over with the starter until we were at tdc again and then try to install the dizzy again. Well for some reason the starter just clicks and continuously clicks if you hold the key. It moves the engine a very little bit at a time. Does anyone know if the clicking is the starter slipping on the converter wheel? We checked the battery and it's reading 11.56v. The battery has 875 cold cranking amps so I thought that would be enough to turn it over. If I'm wrong please let me know.

Edit: This is the starter that was on the car and we were trying to reuse it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-5007860/overview/make/chrysler

[flyinlow]

11.56v is dead. Recharge or replace.

[myk]

Voltage doesn't tell the whole picture, either.  Amp's is what you need to test for, so I'd recommend taking the battery to a parts store to be tested, if you haven't done so already.

[2Luke2]

Thank you sir! I thought they were 12v batteries in the car? I thought it was close so we were good. I will give that a try and report back. Ok so we charged it up and that was definitely the issue. Now we are still having issues with the dizzy sitting flat. It seems like it won't sit flush.

[2Luke2]

Voltage doesn't tell the whole picture, either.  Amp's is what you need to test for, so I'd recommend taking the battery to a parts store to be tested, if you haven't done so already.

Nope, we haven't done that yet, but I have a call in 15 minutes so it will have to wait until after that. Thank you for the suggestion!

[68CoronetRT]

My car was showing 12v and on a fresh motor it would not spin the engine over. We added a battery box and then it started to turn over, but slowly. After it fired it was alot easier to spin without the box.

[flyinlow]

A typical  wet cell lead /acid has around 2.1v per cell. Six cells equals around 12.6v. Normally I don't care about small voltage varyations , but when you said you heard the starter solenoid chatter and the battery only had 11.5v, it was an easy call.

Current flow is what makes the starter work . About 160 or more amps to get it started ,then about 100 amps or more to keep cranking. For a conventional Mopar starter. Mini starters are much lower.

Enough trivia, back to the first start.

[2Luke2]

Well we are working on that. I had to do a bit of work, but back at it now.  We are still having issues stabbing the dizzy. I keep making sure the slot is lined up with the rod on the dizzy by turning the rotor and feeling it trying to push itself out of he hole further. For some reason it won't sit level on the block. Either the front or back of the dizzy will be flat, but the other side is sitting up. I took the oil shaft out a couple times and add more oil. It slides in very easy and you can hear it hit bottom when it stops. So I'm not sure what the hang up is. We made sure none of the hoses or wires were in the way and cleaned everything off, but still nothing. Never thought the hardest part of the build would be stabbing the distributor...

[2Luke2]

Ok it's definitely the shaft not seating all the way or something related. If we take the shaft out and put the distributor in the hole it goes in fine without any issues. So we will keep at it. Sorry for all the updates, but wanted to think outloud kind of in case we are doing something wrong here. We are using a large screwdriver to turn the oil shaft into the cam gear and then giving it a light tap with a rubber mallet just to make sure it's seated.

[flyinlow]

Any chance the o ring on the distributor base is the wrong one(too big) or out of the groove?

[A383Wing]

you don't say what engine you are working on....small block, big block, RB engine?

[2Luke2]

Ok bit more coaxing got it to seat fully.    

Now to button it back together and get ready for the real challenge... keeping it alive for 20-30 minutes haha...

[2Luke2]

you don't say what engine you are working on....small block, big block, RB engine?

Sorry about that. We are working on a 440 RB. I know if it was a B that we might have gotten a RB dizzy. I think we are good now. Just wasn't fully seating so we gave it a couple of wacks with the mallet nothing crazy though.

We will report back with the results in about an hour.

Thank you guys so much for trying to help out! We really do appreciate it. We are just letting our nerves/excitement get to us.

[cudaken]

 
Yep, getting a hammer works 85% of the time! 

I really hate starting a engine for the first time.

Cuda Ken 

[2Luke2]

I hear ya there! We got her to fire up, but only while the key is turned as soon as you let it go it just dies. We aren't sure why it won't stay running. We are going to run a few more tests tomorrow to see if we got some wires mixed up with the MSD al2 box, coil, and msd tach adapter.

[cudaken]

Bad Ballast Resistor! I carry spares with me. By the way, when I tried to start the Blown 440 in my 69 Charger, I smoked mine as well!  Just luck, nothing to do with it being a fresh engine!

  , I think I still have a spare!  Mine is getting fired Friday! 

Ken

[firefighter3931]

I hear ya there! We got her to fire up, but only while the key is turned as soon as you let it go it just dies. We aren't sure why it won't stay running. We are going to run a few more tests tomorrow to see if we got some wires mixed up with the MSD al2 box, coil, and msd tach adapter.

Luke, it won't stay running because the small red trigger wire is not getting a 12v signal with the ignition in the "run" position. Both the brown and blue wires need to be tied together and attached to the small red wire on the MSD box 


Ron

[2Luke2]

I hear ya there! We got her to fire up, but only while the key is turned as soon as you let it go it just dies. We aren't sure why it won't stay running. We are going to run a few more tests tomorrow to see if we got some wires mixed up with the MSD al2 box, coil, and msd tach adapter.

Luke, it won't stay running because the small red trigger wire is not getting a 12v signal with the ignition in the "run" position. Both the brown and blue wires need to be tied together and attached to the small red wire on the MSD box 


Ron

In this pic the brown and blue wires are on one connector. Does the extra blue wire in this pic need to be connected as well?

[flyinlow]

The brown wire is hot with the ignition switch in the start position back feeding the coil full battery power during cranking. The co- spliced blue wire went to the coil+ originally . The single slightly smaller blue wire is hot with the ignition switch in run powering the coil thru the ballast resistor.  Hook the single blue wire to the brown and the red trigger wire for the MSD box. This will signal the MSD box to operate during both starting and running. The blue wire that was co -spliced to the brown wire and originally feed the coil is not used with the MSD system. The coil is now powered and grounded thru two dedicated wires from the MSD box.

[2Luke2]

The brown wire is hot with the ignition switch in the start position back feeding the coil full battery power during cranking. The co- spliced blue wire went to the coil+ originally . The single slightly smaller blue wire is hot with the ignition switch in run powering the coil thru the ballast resistor.  Hook the single blue wire to the brown and the red trigger wire for the MSD box. This will signal the MSD box to operate during both starting and running. The blue wire that was co -spliced to the brown wire and originally feed the coil is not used with the MSD system. The coil is now powered and grounded thru two dedicated wires from the MSD box.

Yep we got out the multimeter this morning and ran a few tests and sure enough you're 100% correct. Thank you sir! We were able to run her for about 30 minutes without anything going catastrophically wrong. Now we just need to know how we can tell if we rounded a lobe or not haha... We read that a backfire through the carb is a sign, but isn't that a sign of too much advance as well?

Either way thanks to everyone for helping us out!!! We are soo excited! We are waiting for the engine to cool so we can change the oil. We have enough of the comps cam breakin oil for another fill up so we are going to use that and then after 500ish miles going to change it again with another high ZDDP oil.

[firefighter3931]

Hey Luke,

Glad you got the wiring sorted out and got her broken in 

You'll have to post a video/sound bite for us to enjoy 

Now it's time to start tuning 


Ron

[RECHRGD]

Cut the oil filter in half and check for any metal shavings just to be safe.  Good job!

[flyinlow]

Been waiting for two days to hear that.    Now I can have a beer.

[2Luke2]

Been waiting for two days to hear that.    Now I can have a beer.

You and me both! WGoing to grab a spare filter and then going to change the oil and make sure there aren't any big metal chunks in it! Then fire her up for a test run around the block.

Ron you can bet you butt there will be a video posted! Especially after all the hard work you guys did to help us out. We are very grateful!

[cudaken]

 Luke  

Got mine started today as well and I am tickled shitless!  

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/She%20Lives/FromTheBack_zps622306e0.mp4.html

Boy I lucked out, not a single backfire, I stabbed the distributor right at 20 degrees before TDC!   With the cam I have, that is what Ron said to sat it at.  

Boy we both have something to   cam 2 about and on the same day yet!

Cuda Ken

[myk]

Good job, both of you guys...

[2Luke2]

Luke  

Got mine started today as well and I am tickled shitless!  

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/She%20Lives/FromTheBack_zps622306e0.mp4.html

Boy I lucked out, not a single backfire, I stabbed the distributor right at 20 degrees before TDC!   With the cam I have, that is what Ron said to sat it at.  

Boy we both have something to   cam 2 about and on the same day yet!

Cuda Ken

  Glad to hear it! We have a few kinks to work out, but we are getting started on those today!