Gasoline to electric conversion on a 68-70 Charger

[lukedukem]

I'm sure it can be done , but I like the sound of dual exhaust or open headers. Not the sound of big cordless drill.

I wonder if they can come up with a way to make it sound like it has a real engine under the hood and an exhaust, an elaborate exterior speaker system maybe?  

They did in that movie The Dilemma with Vince Vaughn and Kevin James. It was a four door charger and it sounded good. YouTube it

Luke

[ws23rt]

I'm sure it can be done , but I like the sound of dual exhaust or open headers. Not the sound of big cordless drill.

I wonder if they can come up with a way to make it sound like it has a real engine under the hood and an exhaust, an elaborate exterior speaker system maybe?  

I wondered the same thing. With the current high power sound systems they could make it sound like a locomotive under full power. Or the mind could wander about this. Kinda like cell phone ring tones. 

[Chargen69]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GZF_HVsFZo

[myk]

NO

[MaximRecoil]

I'm sure it can be done , but I like the sound of dual exhaust or open headers. Not the sound of big cordless drill.

I wonder if they can come up with a way to make it sound like it has a real engine under the hood and an exhaust, an elaborate exterior speaker system maybe?  

It could definitely be done with speakers (that's the only way it could be done, without adding a gasoline engine solely for the sound effect), and they definitely have plenty of juice to power them (far more juice than a regular car has available), though it would rob you of range, because the batteries would be drained quicker.

A good sounding muscle car or sports car exhaust silences the high frequencies, allowing only the lower, more powerful sounding frequencies to be heard. So you'd need a big subwoofer, and of course a large amplifier to power it. Since a high degree of sound quality (i.e., "sound quality" referring to the accuracy of sound reproduction over the speaker's frequency range; the flatter the frequency response, the higher the "sound quality") isn't needed for something like this, you could just go with something that can move a hell of a lot of air relative to its size and power input, such as a 15" Kicker Solo-Baric L7 powered by a 2 kilowatt class D amplifier. This setup alone could move enough air to rattle the rearview mirror of the car next to you, to say nothing of your own mirror.

A good sounding exhaust also contains some midrange frequencies that a subwoofer can't reproduce with any significant volume, so a good choice for that would be a midrange horn-loaded compression driver, which can put out outrageous levels of sound with relevatively little power input (i.e., they are very efficient). You would only need a 100 or 200 watt class A/B amplifier for this.

The sub-bass frequencies that a subwoofer reproduces penetrates solid objects rather well, so you could have the subwoofer enclosed in the vehicle. The midrange driver would need to have its horn exposed to the outside though, which is okay, because the horn usually has a rectangular-shaped opening like many exhaust tips have, so it could be chromed to look like an exhaust tip (and compression drivers are what's normally used for outdoor PA systems anyway). You could use two of them for "dual exhaust".

The audio source couldn't be a recording, it would have to be a real-time audio generator of some sort, that is wired in with the throttle, and is programmed to increase in tempo as the throttle is pressed, to simulate the sound effect of increasing engine RPMs (easy to do with the right hardware/software; they do it in car racing videogames all the time, where the "throttle" is the button or analog trigger/stick on your gamepad).

[Mike DC]

 
Guys, it's already been done. 

Some modern (fully gasoline powered) BMWs have an engine revving noise piped in through the sound system when you are revving the engine hard. 

 


I dunno why.  Maybe they wanted engine noise on command without giving up the soundproofed ultra-quiet cabin.

[ACUDANUT]

Why not run them on Natural gas or Propane.
We could always go back to steam engines too.

[1974dodgecharger]

Get an example from the people driving Prius's at every stoplight.   Those are also the same people driving 80 on the interstate.

happens here in phoenix alot thos prius drivers always in a hurry hitting 90 on the 10 to pass people and in HOV lane.

[Chargen69]

Why not run them on Natural gas or Propane.
We could always go back to steam engines too.

are you comparing CNG to steam engines?  well, we have seriously looked at putting enough of a tank in the trunk of my 69 to more than run around town on CNG with a switch to go back to gasoline if I need to go out of town and dont find a CNG filling station.  way cheaper than gas and runs cleaner

[ACUDANUT]

Steam engine was a joke....Maybe

[Stevearino]

 Both my son and daughter have Prius's and I admire the technology that makes the possible. I hate the hybrid styling and have daydreamed about doing a re-body on one but the extreme high voltage warning signs all over the thing scared the crap out of me. I wouldn't want to learn about that car with my usual hunt and peck method. One wrong peck could fry you.

[MaximRecoil]

Steam engines make massive torque at all engine speeds. The old Stanley Steamer didn't even need a gear-reduction transmission; it was direct drive. A Stanley Steamer also reached 127 MPH in 1906.

I wonder what could be done today with a steam engine. The old ones were slow to get started because you had to get a big tank of water boiling first, but a more modern approach to that could possibly eliminate that problem, such as the way those tankless water heaters work, the small ones that you put under the faucet that only come on when the faucet is turned on, and heat the water going through the pipes in a few seconds.

I doubt there's a future for steam engines in cars though, because you still have to have a source of energy to heat the water, which could be gas, electric, coal, or whatever. Pure electric like the Tesla cars is probably the future. Currently Tesla is putting up solar-powered recharging stations across the country, claiming lifetime free recharges for Tesla owners. If idea lasts / catches on, it would probably seal the deal for electric cars being the future standard for automobiles.

[ws23rt]

Steam engine was a joke....Maybe

Howard Hughes wanted a steam powered car.  
It's been many years since I read the story but I recall it had to meet some criteria such as amount of water needed, how fast it responded from cold start, and distance range.
His hired engineers and builders told him it was not practical. Hughes had much money and insisted.
The car was built and in answering some questions from Hughes about the condensers. He was told that in order to meet required spec there were condensers in every conceivable space doors, fenders,floors, trunk,etc. So if I get in a small wreck I get scalded? ( or something to that effect).
He ordered the car be scrapped with out ever driving it.  Over a half million dollars spent.  (back in the day money)

I see some similarities in this story and the desire for an electric car.  One can want something but that desire is not enough.

We wanted electric cars since cars were invented. Batteries are better now but there is further improvement needed and one issue leads to another to make it useable, practical, and competitive.
So far the bugs are still holding it off except for the government contribution to lure buyers. (money taken from my back pocket without asking).

For some reason I am trying to imagine the giant ignition switch needed  Opps I got it  a relay  
There may be something else?

[Stevearino]

Steam engines make massive torque at all engine speeds. The old Stanley Steamer didn't even need a gear-reduction transmission; it was direct drive. A Stanley Steamer also reached 127 MPH in 1906.

I wonder what could be done today with a steam engine. The old ones were slow to get started because you had to get a big tank of water boiling first, but a more modern approach to that could possibly eliminate that problem, such as the way those tankless water heaters work, the small ones that you put under the faucet that only come on when the faucet is turned on, and heat the water going through the pipes in a few seconds.

I doubt there's a future for steam engines in cars though, because you still have to have a source of energy to heat the water, which could be gas, electric, coal, or whatever. Pure electric like the Tesla cars is probably the future. Currently Tesla is putting up solar-powered recharging stations across the country, claiming lifetime free recharges for Tesla owners. If idea lasts / catches on, it would probably seal the deal for electric cars being the future standard for automobiles.

Tesla has a lot of good ideas but one of it's most innovative which is to sell cars directly to the public via the internet is meeting stiff opposition in some states such as my own N.C. With an all Republican legislature and Governor you would think they would be in favor of new competitive  free market ideas. But the auto dealers association has a lot of influence and they are now shepherding legislation to outlaw direct internet sales to protect their turf.

[Mike DC]

                      
Electric cars will overcome their battery drawbacks when they stop trying to store large amounts of electricity.  It's not a temporary roadblock, it's the central limitation of the entire technology.  

After having over a century of development, batteries still haven't come within miles of the storage density of fossil fuels.  It's not a problem that we're going to beat in this generation or next.  If ever.  


Nothing beats a combustible liquid for storing large amounts of power in compact form that can be easily extracted and replenished.  Electric cars will get a decent operating range & power when they stop trying to store half a ton of batteries, and start carrying onboard gasoline engines to keep a small battery charged.
         

[myk]

Both my son and daughter have Prius's and I admire the technology that makes the possible. I hate the hybrid styling and have daydreamed about doing a re-body on one but the extreme high voltage warning signs all over the thing scared the crap out of me. I wouldn't want to learn about that car with my usual hunt and peck method. One wrong peck could fry you.

Well you have to be specially qualified just to service one; my next door neighbor had to go to a variety of classes over a span of months just to be able to work on the Leaf at his dealership.

Personally, I don't think electric has any place in cars of passion, especially in cars like ours or others, such as muscle cars, exotics, etc.  Part of the thrill of driving a 60's muscle car or an exotic for example, is the internal combustion process; the look, the smell, the feel, the sounds-all of it, is essential to the visceral pleasure that car/performance enthusiasts like US can derive from driving a gasoline and oil powered and relatively PRIMITIVE machine.  If you take away the look, the smell and the feel of driving an internal combustion car that makes no compromises or excuses about itself to stay true to its passionate origins, then you're not seeing or understanding what these machines are about.  

Do I think electrics and hybrids are a good idea?  Of course I do, especially when we look at public transportation, commuting, cargo, etc-the need and the applications are endless and the benefits are immeasurable.  But when it comes to a '68 Charger R/T, a Ferrari F50, or any other vehicle like those, they should be left as intended: internal combustion-loud, illogical, impractical and dangerous in the wrong hands and damn proud of it.  Anything else is just freaking sacrilege...

[mickelsdogs]

QUITE a few years a go I actually spoke with Mr. Musk  He laughed. Said why? I asked how? The words upgrade were never thought of or mentioned. I guess my thinking then was small potatoes to him. Weight and battery space+ life, N how far N how fast, were the questions asked to me, must  "B" non automatic trans. car. His thoughs the were, and why fool with old junk. I AM the future watch me GROW is what he said.  Damn he is good. WE NEED HIM IN A MOPAR!!!!!!  

[MaximRecoil]

We wanted electric cars since cars were invented. Batteries are better now but there is further improvement needed and one issue leads to another to make it useable, practical, and competitive.
So far the bugs are still holding it off except for the government contribution to lure buyers. (money taken from my back pocket without asking).

Electric cars were common enough in the early 1900s that there were charging stations and battery trade-in services in cities such as NYC. The Baker electric car was popular (and there were also electric cars from Anthony Electric, Columbia, Anderson, Edison, Studebaker, Riker, and others) and they apparently used such high quality windings and other conductors/connections that they could practically go forever with little-to-no maintenance. Jay Leno has a Baker that still works fine, and he told the story of an old lady who drove one daily for many decades right up until she died somewhat recently. And speaking of ladies, that was one of their downfalls; i.e., they were perceived as a "woman's car". Incidentally, this is the same problem Marlboro cigarettes faced due to their marketing toward women and their "Mild as May" slogan - link - it wasn't until they decided to change their image with the [in]famous Marlboro Man ad campaign that they became popular.

For some reason I am trying to imagine the giant ignition switch needed  Opps I got it  a relay  
There may be something else?

You obviously would never run high-amp electric motors through a small switch like the ignition switch. When you turn the key on your car and the starter cranks the engine, do you think the massive current being drawn from the battery by the starter is going through your ignition switch? And the electric motor(s) that drive the wheels of an electric car draw far more current than a gasoline car's electric starter. So yes, you need relays/solenoids. The auto industry doesn't suffer from "relay phobia" like certain individuals do.

[ws23rt]

Both my son and daughter have Prius's and I admire the technology that makes the possible. I hate the hybrid styling and have daydreamed about doing a re-body on one but the extreme high voltage warning signs all over the thing scared the crap out of me. I wouldn't want to learn about that car with my usual hunt and peck method. One wrong peck could fry you.

Well you have to be specially qualified just to service one; my next door neighbor had to go to a variety of classes over a span of months just to be able to work on the Leaf at his dealership.

Personally, I don't think electric has any place in cars of passion, especially in cars like ours or others, such as muscle cars, exotics, etc.  Part of the thrill of driving a 60's muscle car or an exotic for example, is the internal combustion process; the look, the smell, the feel, the sounds-all of it, is essential to the visceral pleasure that car/performance enthusiasts like US can derive from driving a gasoline and oil powered and relatively PRIMITIVE machine.  If you take away the look, the smell and the feel of driving an internal combustion car that makes no compromises or excuses about itself to stay true to its passionate origins, then you're not seeing or understanding what these machines are about.  

Do I think electrics and hybrids are a good idea?  Of course I do, especially when we look at public transportation, commuting, cargo, etc-the need and the applications are endless and the benefits are immeasurable.  But when it comes to a '68 Charger R/T, a Ferrari F50, or any other vehicle like those, they should be left as intended: internal combustion-loud, illogical, impractical and dangerous in the wrong hands and damn proud of it.  Anything else is just freaking sacrilege...

Very well said and addresses several points at once.  Clearly   

[JB400]

Well, electric cars didn't fade out at the turn of the 20th century because they were perceived as "Lady's cars"  Big oil had a bigger influence on that then manliness.   Gasoline could be had for mere pennies a gallon and be available everywhere, even at the corner drug store.  To charge your electric car, you had to have a rather large, noisy, and expensive generator outside your house.  Even then, the generator ran on gasoline.  The members of the households didn't like the generators, and neither did the neighbors.  They still had to buy gas, so why not just put it in the car directly?

It is only now that electric vehicles are coming around.  Only reason is because the cost of gas is getting closer to the cost of electricity.  We, as a society, are always going to drift to cheapest form of energy.

[ws23rt]

Most folks are here for information not a soap opera.

That's comically ironic, considering I generally only post information (or requests for information), while you post misplaced sarcasm and emotional editorials in response. There is an example of this in this thread, several examples of this in the thread about reproduction Charger grilles, and plenty of examples in my 318 distributor thread. In fact, in the 318 distributor thread you posted exactly nothing which would be considered relevant information, despite posting many times.

I have stated several times that I was not responding to the topic. And have admitted that I have indeed intruded and was responding only to your responses to me and others. This is a topic within a topic.
You recognized this by responding to my response. therefore giving it recognition as a topic.
And in order to refute my response you made references to the original topics as a way to side step my points.

[MaximRecoil]

Well, electric cars didn't fade out at the turn of the 20th century because they were perceived as "Lady's cars" 

I said that it was one of their downfalls, which it was:

Electric cars were often marketed as suitable vehicles for women drivers due to this ease of operation; in fact, early electric cars were stigmatized by the perception that they were "women's cars", leading some companies to affix radiators to the front to disguise the car's propulsion system.

If the perception of them as "women's cars" wasn't a factor, no company would have gone to the expense of "affixing radiators to the front to disguise the car's propulsion system".

Big oil had a bigger influence on that then manliness.   Gasoline could be had for mere pennies a gallon and be available everywhere, even at the corner drug store.  To charge your electric car, you had to have a rather large, noisy, and expensive generator outside your house.

You could also use one of the battery exchange services, or one of the public recharging stations that were in various places back then. In any event, there was certainly more than one factor that contributed to their demise.

I have stated several times that I was not responding to the topic. And have admitted that I have indeed intruded and was responding only to your responses to me and others. This is a topic within a topic.
You recognized this by responding to my response. therefore giving it recognition as a topic.
And in order to refute my response you made reference to the original topic as a way to side step my points.

Your admitted intrusion into an argument about technical information, with your irrelevant emotional matters, is a textbook example of "soap opera" drama, and the antithesis of "information".

You said:

"Most folks are here for information not a soap opera."

Like I said: comical irony.

[JB400]

Which electric car company was putting radiators on their electric cars?  Or, was it the dealers?

[MaximRecoil]

Which electric car company was putting radiators on their electric cars?  Or, was it the dealers?

Detroit Electric did it - link. And here's a video of one. From the video description:

This is a most unusual electric car. This is one of only 174 ever made. The " radiator" up front is not real.

This is an example of a Detroit Electric car without a dummy radiator.

I don't know what other companies did it.

[JB400]

After doing a little reading, this site, among others as well,  http://www.owningelectriccar.com/electric-car-history.html

I underestimated the popularity of the electric car at that time.  It was more of a range issue and price that did the electric car in.  Coincidentally, the same excuses for not buying electric today.

It would seem that the fake radiator was more of a styling issue (sign of the times) than it was because it was being outsold by gasoline powered cars.