THE BEST GETS BETTER!

[ECS]

Gene Lewis' 2012 - BEST of SHOW - OE GOLD Daytona recently had an ECS Exhaust System installed to replace his NOS setup.  Here is what they looked like on Day One!  No rusted seams and/or dents (like most NOS parts) from years of being knocked around!  A big Thanks to Gene Lewis for allowing the Valiant Team to help install and document the final results.


Driver Side Torsion Bar clearance


Passenger Side clearance


Factory Exact Mufflers


Passenger Side Tail Pipe


Mufflers & Tail Pipes


Factory Exact Mufflers


Gene Lewis checking for correct tolerances......I think we passed the test!


Complete System - Installed


The most correctly restored 1969 Daytona in existence!




 

[held1823]

nice work, dave. thanks for sharing the detailed photos.

[Ghoste]

That car sure is a work of art!

[moparstuart]

 

[69hemidaytona]

The H pipe and mufflers are about the last things I need to buy for my Daytona yet. Is there a bolt missing from the bellhousing on Gene's car?

[Hemi Runner]

When you own something like that, that's restored to that level of exactness, how do you maintain it? Is it kept in a climate controlled environment? How do you keep it from deteriorating over time?

[moparstuart]

The H pipe and mufflers are about the last things I need to buy for my Daytona yet. Is there a bolt missing from the bellhousing on Gene's car?

I agree the 2nd picture shows a missing bolt

[Charger-Bodie]

The dowel pin hole? 



Now you need some red overspray on the front pipes Gene!

[ws23rt]

When you own something like that, that's restored to that level of exactness, how do you maintain it? Is it kept in a climate controlled environment? How do you keep it from deteriorating over time?

This is a good question. If there are more shows in the near or far future how is preserved?  I have heard of drive in plastic bags?
One of the turbine cars was in one.

[arrow]

  to be assembly line correct wouldnt the mufflers be welded to the head pipes ?

[ECS]

  to be assembly line correct wouldnt the mufflers be welded to the head pipes ?

You are correct!  If a vehicle had "head pipes" the Mufflers would be welded on.  Keep in mind that 440 & Hemi B Body vehicles used an H Pipe.  When an H Pipe was used, the Mufflers were clamped on and not welded.

[arrow]

  to be assembly line correct wouldnt the mufflers be welded to the head pipes ?

You are correct!  If a vehicle had "head pipes" the Mufflers would be welded on.  Keep in mind that 440 & Hemi B Body vehicles used an H Pipe.  When an H Pipe was used, the Mufflers were clamped on and not welded.

Thanks !!!

[rainbow4jd]

Dave.  Can't wait to have you help me with my bird!    Great work

[ECS]

When you own something like that, that's restored to that level of exactness, how do you maintain it? Is it kept in a climate controlled environment? How do you keep it from deteriorating over time?

I don't want to get off track but keeping bare metal to look fresh and "new" is easy.  I developed a product called RPM that keeps your metal finish looking natural with no oily feel or residue.  When applied correctly it is invisible.  I have more pictures of Gene's Daytona that I will post tomorrow.  All of his natural metal was treated with RPM and looks like the day that he and Vance applied it.  (Including his H Pipe in the pictures.)  

Below is a picture of my Challenger that was an OE contestant in 2008.  The photo was taken a few days ago and it looks exactly like the day we entered it in the Show 5 years ago.  All of its natural metal components are also protected with RPM.

[ECS]

Dave.  Can't wait to have you help me with my bird! 

[tan top]

    , awesome 

[Ghoste]

Do those cars (your Challenger, the Daytona) get driven at all?  I don't mean to the Thursday night cruise, I mean to the trailer or anything like that.  Maybe the better question is, are they still operable or to compete at that level do you need to avoid that?

[hemigeno]

The H pipe and mufflers are about the last things I need to buy for my Daytona yet.

Dave has the H-pipe for Hemi applications as well, Tony - you will NOT be disappointed with one of these!  The mufflers are just as nice, and sound exactly like the NOS components just removed from my car.  The look, feel, sound and fitment of the ECS system is an improvement on every front even over my big-dollar NOS components and certainly over the other reproductions I've had.  Years ago, I blew out both mufflers on my Hemicar after an unfortunate timing chain incident.  It took going through five different YearOne reproduction mufflers before I found two that didn't rattle horribly, and I was never satisfied with the tinny sound.  Yes, I'm picky about that too.   

Is there a bolt missing from the bellhousing on Gene's car?

I agree the 2nd picture shows a missing bolt

The dowel pin hole? 

Brian got it right, it's just the dowel pin hole - although I will admit that at first the bellhousing's hole appears a bit too shiny (devoid of engine paint overspray).  So, I went out and looked at the dowel on the 1969 block we initially installed in the car.  It has a longer dowel, so it filled up more of the bellhousing's hole - and it also has orange paint on its end from when Vance originally painted the bellhousing.  Since we re-used the same dowels in the 1973 replacement block that it originally came with, this is exactly how the bellhousing looked right after the short block was installed in early 1974... if anyone was curious about such trivial details other than myself...

[hemigeno]

When you own something like that, that's restored to that level of exactness, how do you maintain it? Is it kept in a climate controlled environment? How do you keep it from deteriorating over time?

This is a good question. If there are more shows in the near or far future how is preserved?  I have heard of drive in plastic bags?
One of the turbine cars was in one.

Do those cars (your Challenger, the Daytona) get driven at all?  I don't mean to the Thursday night cruise, I mean to the trailer or anything like that.  Maybe the better question is, are they still operable or to compete at that level do you need to avoid that?

I have a separate room built within my shop to store the car (which was earlier dubbed "The Hemi House" back when I still had my R/T), and it is temp/humidity controlled.  I've seen the bags in use before, but it's not necessary for me since this room isn't open all that much and stays fairly dust-free.  To this point I still have not driven my Daytona on the road yet, but installing the ECS exhaust system puts me one step closer to doing so.  Another thing I want to change out before driving it is the radiator... my "ultra correct" 055 2-core radiator is woefully ill-prepared to cool the engine and I've already experienced some overheating issues last year during the 'Nats Award Ceremony.  Before driving the car on the road, I would like to install a modified radiator - one with a 055 top tank and OE mounting flanges to make it look correct, but with a high-efficiency 3-row core and suitable bottom tank (which would be barely visible or noticeable as long as they're painted black).

Having the bare metal components protected with RPM is a fantastic way to keep the OE look -- without worrying about the parts rusting just from atmospheric humidity, and they should hold up just as well to most classic car owners' cruising  duties.

My Daytona is most definitely still operable, and I am inching closer to being able to actually drive it on the road.  Another reason I might hesitate to drive it is just how long it takes to really clean the underside of the car.  Once I get over my compulsion to keep it as clean as you see now, it'll be a lot easier to justify taking a drive.  One of these days...

[ECS]

Do those cars (your Challenger, the Daytona) get driven at all?  I don't mean to the Thursday night cruise, I mean to the trailer or anything like that.  Maybe the better question is, are they still operable or to compete at that level do you need to avoid that?

After installing the Exhaust System on Gene's Daytona, we did a video sound check and the vehicle was running for more than 20 minuets.  He even drove the car down his drive, turned around in the street and then drove it back to the room where it is parked in the picture.  I'm positive that he could have driven the car 100 miles without issue if he desired.  It is basically a brand new Factory built Daytona!  

Regarding my Challenger, it is a normal running/operating vehicle and could be driven to California and back.  Everything works perfectly including the Air Conditioning.  More important than the appearance is that the car runs and operates like it did when new.  They basically represent the scenario of purchasing a brand new vehicle and then parking it in the garage.  I can't speak for Gene but I don't "drive" them because like anything that is used on a regular basis, they would loose their "new" looking appearance over time.  

[hemigeno]

I can't speak for Gene but I don't "drive" them because like anything that is used on a regular basis, they would loose their "new" looking appearance over time.  

They would indeed lose their "new" appearance over time, and for that reason I will probably never drive mine regularly.  However, if I cannot justify driving it at all, I'll probably end up selling it.  Awfully expensive garage art...

BTW, I've already said this before, but THANK YOU, Dave, for your help with my exhaust system.  It did indeed make my car even better than it was.

[Ghoste]

Cool, I know there are some show cars that never even get fluids put in them so I always have a great deal of respect for the ones that still operate.  I can easily imagine how difficult it must be to keep them perfect like that.

[ECS]

......thanks for sharing the detailed photos.

Here are a few more photos of Gene's Daytona and some soundbites of the ECS Exhaust after installation.









Soundbites of Gene's 1969 Dodge Daytona

http://youtu.be/lja16eNaq0U

http://youtu.be/STSKPyfZLcI

http://youtu.be/oq5oJC7b4k0

[69hemidaytona]

MMM that sounds nice.

[Charger-Bodie]

Geno, How about the overspray? Are you gonna have Vance mist some on to match the t-bars?

[ECS]

Geno, How about the overspray? Are you gonna have Vance mist some on to match the t-bars?

It would probably be a wasted step in the process.  Notice how even the heavier paint on the Exhaust Manifolds has almost completely burned off.  The light overstay would have burned off of the H Pipe within minuets of the car running.  

After about 10 minuets of running, the Daytona was put back on the lift so I could apply a final coat of RPM.  The pictures I posted of the Exhaust were taken before the car was started.  They don't show that the H Pipe had already started turning a shade of blue about 18" down from the flanges.    

[Charger-Bodie]

Really? Wouldn't it Atleast discolor the pipes where the paint burned off?

[ECS]

Really? Wouldn't it Atleast disciple the pipes where the paint burned off?

Keep in mind that Gene's car represented a vehicle where Chrysler replaced the original Engine due to a Warranty claim.  Notice how the Engine Block does not have any paint or "over-spray" on it. The torsion bars would have been exposed to paint when the front nose was originally painted by Creative Industries.  To continue the "Warranty" theme, the vehicle could have had the Exhaust replaced at the time the Engine repair was taking place.  If that be the scenario, the H Pipe would not have been exposed to over-spray.

[Charger-Bodie]

Really? Wouldn't it Atleast discolor the pipes where the paint burned off?

Keep in mind that Gene's car represented a vehicle where Chrysler replaced the original Engine due to a Warranty claim.  Notice how the Engine Block does not have any paint or "over-spray" on it. The torsion bars would have been exposed to paint when the front nose was originally painted by Creative Industries.  To continue the "Warranty" theme, the vehicle could have had the Exhaust replaced at the time the Engine repair was taking place.  If that be the scenario, the H Pipe would not have been exposed to over-spray.

I can see that in theory. I was just curious what his plans were in that regard.

[hemigeno]

Hey Brian,

Dave's first reply to your question on overspray pretty much summarizes the situation.  Any Creative Industries overspray on the H-pipe would have burned off for sure, especially in that high-heat section of pipe right below the exhaust manifold.  The exhaust heat could indeed have left an oxidized burn mark on the pipe where the paint droplets were, but that's a visual characteristic I would prefer to avoid since it would look much more like the onset of rust pitting or a defect in the exhaust tube than the remnants of deliberate overspray.  9 out of 10 people would come to the wrong conclusion with what they would see, so that's something I think I'll just avoid entirely.  Dave would probably prefer that I do it that way also, since both the quality of his exhaust components and the effectiveness of RPM as a protectant might be wrongly questioned if I tried to get too fancy.

Your thought process is correct though.  If there's overspray on nearby components (like torsion bars) from Creative Industries' conversion process, there ought to be some on the adjacent H-pipe tube.  I will add, however, that for whatever reason the camera flash will accentuate all this overspray by a whole lot - so in person, the overspray on surrounding components is not as pronounced as it appears in the posted photographs.

[maxwellwedge]

I think he asked about torsion bar overspray.... never found any on my cars......sway bar - yes, as well as other suspension parts in that area.

Of course - all this varied car by car....depending on how the paint guy(s) was feeling. Did he have a sore back that day...etc.  

Oh and PS

Dave - thanks for your work on exhaust....it was sorely needed - Great Job! Already bought some stuff through FB - going to be buying more. The only problem is.....my NOS stuff is worth less - lol.

[hemigeno]

Of course - all this varied car by car....depending on how the paint guy(s) was feeling. Did he have a sore back that day...etc.  

Right, as usual, Mr. B!

[maxwellwedge]

Geno - Can you tell my wife that? 

[hemigeno]

Geno - Can you tell my wife that? 

Would it do any good?   

[maxwellwedge]

Ummmm...............probably......................................not 

[Charger-Bodie]

Thanks for the response Gene, that makes perfect sense to me as well. I was just curious which way you were going to go with it.

That said,the exhaust looks stellar Dave. Another nice part brought to us by you and your guys. I have used your carpet too. AWESOME stuff to say the least.


One more thing. How did you guys get Billy Idol to help with the install?

[hemi68charger]

Very nice........... 

[pettybird]

The system sounds great...is that how loud these cars were new, or did you take out some packing?  I've ridden in some cars with their original mufflers and I don't remember them having that much of a voice.  Is it quieter in person?  That's not saying I mind the sound at all...it's what a muscle car SHOULD sound like!

The pipes themselves look terrible, which is a huge compliment considering your goal   

[hemigeno]

The system sounds great...is that how loud these cars were new, or did you take out some packing?  I've ridden in some cars with their original mufflers and I don't remember them having that much of a voice.  Is it quieter in person?  That's not saying I mind the sound at all...it's what a muscle car SHOULD sound like!

Hi Doug,

After we fired the car up, several of us were remarking how it sounded rather mean when standing behind the car, but it was MUCH quieter in the passenger compartment or when standing forward of the rear bumper.  As far as the mufflers themselves go, Dave & his team went to great lengths to replicate every little nuance of the OE mufflers.  Every weep hole (including the internal ones you can't see), baffle and perforation is just like the originals they patterned their repros after, and even the metal thickness is the same.  They weigh much more than both the YearOne repros I had and some other repros Dave had sitting in his shop, but the ECS mufflers weigh about (if not) the same as my NOS pieces.  Maybe even a little heavier to be honest.

The pipes themselves look terrible, which is a huge compliment considering your goal  

[odcics2]

Really? Wouldn't it Atleast disciple the pipes where the paint burned off?

Keep in mind that Gene's car represented a vehicle where Chrysler replaced the original Engine due to a Warranty claim.  Notice how the Engine Block does not have any paint or "over-spray" on it. The torsion bars would have been exposed to paint when the front nose was originally painted by Creative Industries.  To continue the "Warranty" theme, the vehicle could have had the Exhaust replaced at the time the Engine repair was taking place.  If that be the scenario, the H Pipe would not have been exposed to over-spray.

I'd believe that Chrysler would replace the bare minimum. Was the short block replaced?  Or was it the long block?

[hemigeno]

I'd believe that Chrysler would replace the bare minimum. Was the short block replaced?  Or was it the long block?

Short block only.  Both of the cylinder heads have May '69 cast dates and still had remnants of orange paint on 'em when they were first cleaned up.

[resq302]

The system sounds great...is that how loud these cars were new, or did you take out some packing?  I've ridden in some cars with their original mufflers and I don't remember them having that much of a voice.  Is it quieter in person?  That's not saying I mind the sound at all...it's what a muscle car SHOULD sound like!

Hi Doug,

After we fired the car up, several of us were remarking how it sounded rather mean when standing behind the car, but it was MUCH quieter in the passenger compartment or when standing forward of the rear bumper.  As far as the mufflers themselves go, Dave & his team went to great lengths to replicate every little nuance of the OE mufflers.  Every weep hole (including the internal ones you can't see), baffle and perforation is just like the originals they patterned their repros after, and even the metal thickness is the same.  They weigh much more than both the YearOne repros I had and some other repros Dave had sitting in his shop, but the ECS mufflers weigh about (if not) the same as my NOS pieces.  Maybe even a little heavier to be honest.

The pipes themselves look terrible, which is a huge compliment considering your goal  

Gene,

Fantastic car as always. Who would have thought it could get any better!  I have to admit, our 69 GTX sounds pretty much the same as your car as it has the exact same system that yours does.  The clearance is absolutely amazing on it and is identical to the factory H pipe that was removed.  Dave and his company certainly should be proud of the work that they have done bringing a factory OE part back to the public to use on their cars to get one step closer to the way they were originally!

As far as the rattle in the mufflers, I know exactly what you mean!  I just replaced the "other guys" mufflers on my charger and the sound also changed (besides the rattle that is now gone!)  I can't wait for Dave to make up the head pipes so I have the proper clearance and flattened out areas where the trans crossmember is.  I can't start to explain how much that irritates me that is not on the set that I have now from the competitor.

[ECS]

As far as the rattle in the mufflers, I know exactly what you mean!  I just replaced the "other guys" mufflers on my charger and the sound also changed (besides the rattle that is now gone!)  I can't wait for Dave to make up the head pipes so I have the proper clearance and flattened out areas where the trans crossmember is.  I can't start to explain how much that irritates me that is not on the set that I have now from the competitor.

Hi Brian.  Let's not forget that ECS was referred to as a "sticker" manufacturer as an attempt to disparage our ability to manufacture "accurate" Chrysler Exhaust Systems.  What "they" never took into consideration was that we have the same demand for perfection regardless of the diversified products that we manufacture.  No matter what the task, it HAS to be right!  Simply concentrating on one particular line does not guarantee that the attention to detail will be correctly represented.  I have had a few individuals/Customers (such as yourself) that understands that sentiment.  I appreciate being able to work with guys like you and Gene and welcome your honest feedback.  The Head-pipes are coming soon!

[resq302]

Again, a HUGE thank you Dave, for what you and your company bring to the table for hobbyists like us!  I can't wait to improve our Challenger and Charger to a higher standard now!  Im sure that we will be ordering plenty more things from you in the future the further a long we get in the resto process with the GTX also.

[maxwellwedge]

As far as the rattle in the mufflers, I know exactly what you mean!  I just replaced the "other guys" mufflers on my charger and the sound also changed (besides the rattle that is now gone!)  I can't wait for Dave to make up the head pipes so I have the proper clearance and flattened out areas where the trans crossmember is.  I can't start to explain how much that irritates me that is not on the set that I have now from the competitor.

Hi Brian.  Let's not forget that ECS was referred to as a "sticker" manufacturer as an attempt to disparage our ability to manufacture "accurate" Chrysler Exhaust Systems. 

What? You make stickers too?? 

Can't wait for the pipes...including the over axle pipes.