How to change a distributor in a 318

[Fred]

where's the off button.............my head is hurting.

[ws23rt]

An observation is an inferred question.

No, it isn't. Cite any accepted definition of the word "observation" which says anything even remotely similar to it being an "inferred question".

You side stepped the question which implies lack of interest or ability to answer.

Negated, due to your false premise of "An observation is an inferred question", thus dismissed.

He's kinda like the little pink energizer bunny..."Keeps going, & going...banging his own drum"

There is a chain on his back to pull.   And I suspect it drives a generator for final drive. With a relay to make it reliable.

*Ching*
*Ching*

There is much in the world of communication you are only starting to learn. People from many different educational backgrounds communicate with the tools they have. That is why the language changes. An astute observer/ listener can understand that new language as it applies or evolves.
To dismiss out of hand something that someones says requires one to completely understand that persons language and there intent.
As you grow up you will find this to be true.

It is much better to be perceived ignorant that to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

[MaximRecoil]

There is much in the world of communication you are only starting to learn. People from many different educational backgrounds communicate with the tools they have. That is why the language changes. An astute observer/ listener can understand that new language as it applies or evolves.
To dismiss out of hand something that someones says requires one to completely understand that persons language and there intent.
As you grow up you will find this to be true.

It is much better to be perceived ignorant that to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

Another baseless and irrelevant editorial from you; consider it dismissed (due to irrelevance, not to mention lack of basis). Also, since you have provided no citation for your claim that "an observation is an inferred question" (and you won't be able to, because that's not even remotely what the word means), your tacit concession on that matter is noted.

[ws23rt]

There is much in the world of communication you are only starting to learn. People from many different educational backgrounds communicate with the tools they have. That is why the language changes. An astute observer/ listener can understand that new language as it applies or evolves.
To dismiss out of hand something that someones says requires one to completely understand that persons language and there intent.
As you grow up you will find this to be true.

It is much better to be perceived ignorant that to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

Another baseless and irrelevant editorial from you; consider it dismissed (due to irrelevance, not to mention lack of basis). Also, since you have provided no citation for your claim that "an observation is an inferred question" (and you won't be able to, because that's not even remotely what the word means), your tacit concession on that matter is noted.

I have seen that same response from you several times.
A citation for my claim that "an observation is an inferred question" is not needed. As referenced above. That it does not meet all the standard definitions is not relevant.
I knew what was meant and you did not.
What you do is slam the correctness of the expression of an idea as well as dismiss the intent.

[Cooter]

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

[A383Wing]

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

I'll second that...even though I never considered you an ass, Cooter....but he is "supreme something", that's for sure

[ws23rt]

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

Cooter you are not even close and you don't want to be.
When you talk we know what you are saying.

[Cooter]

Yeah, all them big words hurts my head.

[MaximRecoil]

I have seen that same response from you several times.

That's because you have posted irrelevant and baseless editorials several times. Same input = same output.

A citation for my claim that "an observation is an inferred question" is not needed.

Yes it is, because your claim is at odds with the accepted definition of the word "observation".

That it does not meet all the standard definitions is not relevant.

Of course it is. Words mean things, and you don't get to redefine "observation", nor any other word that you didn't invent.

I knew what was meant and you did not.

That's because you're using your own private, made-up definition of the word "observation", which has no legitimacy. Stick to standard, accepted definitions of words.

What you do is slam the correctness of the expression of an idea as well as dismiss the intent.

It is not even an established "expression of an idea":

No results found for "observation is an inferred question"

It is simply something you made up out of whole cloth, and as such, it has no validity.

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

I'll second that...even though I never considered you an ass, Cooter....but he is "supreme something", that's for sure

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

Cooter you are not even close and you don't want to be.
When you talk we know what you are saying.

Yeah, all them big words hurts my head.

*Ching*
*Ching*

[flyinlow]

Are we in the presence of a Master Debater ?

[JB400]

Well, I'll say I went to the bottom depths of this thread and found his so called proof.  All I can say is if this is your sort of thing, that's great.  Hope it works out for you and the next guy that buys and works on your car can figure out what you did to it.  For me though, I find the stock electronic ignition system is sufficient enough for most applications.  If you figure that an upgrade is required, it is by my recommendation that you either step up to a new ignition module like the Revenator, or replace the system with something similar to the MSD in which is similar to the modification the op has suggested, but does it with less electrical connections, and components in which could cause an increase in diagnosis aggravation and/or cost  should something go wrong.

Any further contradiction of my opinion needs to be backed by additional and substantial proof other than what has been provided before I am willing to change my opinion. 

[Fred]

Are we in the presence of a Master Debater ?

Or just a contentious person. 

[ws23rt]

I have seen that same response from you several times.

That's because you have posted irrelevant and baseless editorials several times. Same input = same output.

A citation for my claim that "an observation is an inferred question" is not needed.

Yes it is, because your claim is at odds with the accepted definition of the word "observation".

That it does not meet all the standard definitions is not relevant.

Of course it is. Words mean things, and you don't get to redefine "observation", nor any other word that you didn't invent.

I knew what was meant and you did not.

That's because you're using your own private, made-up definition of the word "observation", which has no legitimacy. Stick to standard, accepted definitions of words.

What you do is slam the correctness of the expression of an idea as well as dismiss the intent.

It is not even an established "expression of an idea":

No results found for "observation is an inferred question"

It is simply something you made up out of whole cloth, and as such, it has no validity.

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

I'll second that...even though I never considered you an ass, Cooter....but he is "supreme something", that's for sure

Ok fellas, I think maximum has surpassed me as supreme ass of the board.

Cooter you are not even close and you don't want to be.
When you talk we know what you are saying.

Yeah, all them big words hurts my head.

*Ching*
*Ching*

I can tell from your response that you failed to understand or accept the intent of my editorial.

You have a communication problem. What you do interferes with getting to the bottom line of a discussion. Instead it leads a thread like this going on for many pages.
You spend time trying to prove the legitimacy of a term,phrase,word etc. While completely ignoring the substance and intent.
We bow to the real meaning of words and phrases.  But we need to move on and talk about other stuff.

[MaximRecoil]

Well, I'll say I went to the bottom depths of this thread and found his so called proof.

There is nothing "so-called" about it; everything I've typed is independently verifiable. Still noted is the fact that you still haven't pointed out anything specific that I've typed that you wish to contest.  

All I can say is if this is your sort of thing, that's great.  Hope it works out for you and the next guy that buys and works on your car can figure out what you did to it.

It works perfectly, as it has since the moment I first turned the key after finishing the conversion. There will be no "next guy", not in my lifetime anyway. I've already owned the car for 19 years; it isn't going anywhere. By the way, people have been doing HEI conversions to Mopars for a long time; it isn't exactly an experiment at this point. And relays have been around since 1835.  

For me though, I find the stock electronic ignition system is sufficient enough for most applications.  If you figure that an upgrade is required, it is by my recommendation that you either step up to a new ignition module like the Revenator, or replace the system with something similar to the MSD in which is similar to the modification the op has suggested, but does it with less electrical connections, and components in which could cause an increase in diagnosis aggravation and/or cost  should something go wrong.

The advantage of HEI is, not only is it the best (or among the best) OEM ignition system out there, but a replacement HEI module can be bought cheaply (~$20) at any autoparts store in the country. As for your "less electrical connections, and components" claim, it is simply an HEI module with 4 wires connected to it, positive and negative to/from the coil, plus the two wires from the distributor. The relay is optional, as relays in cars always are; i.e., there is always a way to remove a relay in a car and wire the component directly to the main switch. The REV-N-NATOR has 4 wires connected to it too (and costs $200), as do stock Mopar electronic ignition modules (some have 5).

HEI is simple, reliable, cheap, and performs better than Mopar's stock electronic ignition (link). It is also easily upgradable to a high performance HEI ignition module, such as from Accel, for less than $50.

Any further contradiction of my opinion needs to be backed by additional and substantial proof other than what has been provided before I am willing to change my opinion.

When I argue it is to present facts; I don't concern myself about things beyond my control, such as whether or not someone's opinion is changed. By the way, I never suggested that anyone convert their car to HEI in the first place.

[MaximRecoil]

I can tell from your response that you failed to understand or accept the intent of my editorial.

The intent of your editorial is irrelevant, because an editorial, any editorial, is inherently irrelevant on this thread.

You have a communication problem. What you do interferes with getting to the bottom line of a discussion.

That's comical irony, considering you have continually interjected your irrelevant editorials and equally irrelevant misplaced sarcasm into this thread, when the only thing relevant to this thread is facts pertaining to the technical matters being discussed.

Instead it leads a thread like this going on for many pages.

"It takes two to tango", as they say. I'm not replying to myself here. Some people are replying with relevant, albeit, bad, arguments, while others have been relegated to the peanut gallery and are merely throwing their effete paper cups from the sidelines.

You spend time trying to prove the legitimacy of a term,phrase,word etc. While completely ignoring the substance and intent.
We bow to the real meaning of words and phrases.

I haven't spent any time trying to prove anything with the regard to the legitimacy of your homespun "definition". That's your job, given that it was your assertion; a job at which you have failed, I might add.

But we need to move on and talk about other stuff.

Try something relevant.

[A383Wing]

Do penguins have knees?

[ws23rt]

So if our legs bent the other way what would chairs look like

[flyinlow]

When the HEI first came out in the 70's they where prone to module failure. The fix ,we where told, was a heat conductive grease under the module to transfer heat to the distributor housing. Where did you mount the module? Do you need a heat sink?

[ws23rt]

"How to change a distributor in a 318"
Okay, you don't want opinions.  So, to change a distributor in a 318..You must unbolt the Dist. hold down clamp.  Unlock the cap with wires and pull the Disp.  Re-install the opposite. 

And there you have it.  For those of you that came to the bottom line.
There is some stuff above that that won't help on this.

[MaximRecoil]

When the HEI first came out in the 70's they where prone to module failure. The fix ,we where told, was a heat conductive grease under the module to transfer heat to the distributor housing. Where did you mount the module? Do you need a heat sink?

I used an HEI module heatsink made by GM (AC Delco part# 10474610) for certain 1990s/2000s pickup trucks that had the coil, heatsink, and HEI module mounted externally on a bracket rather than the HEI module being in the distributor. I used the thermal grease which was included with the HEI module.

The E-core type coil I used came from a 1992 Ford van out in the junkyard (same coil used by Ford on most of their vehicles from the early '80s to the late '90s), and it had a mounting bracket with a flat spot on it which was perfect for mounting the HEI module and heat sink (resulting in a coil/bracket/module/heatsink assembly similar to the one GM used on their 1990s/2000s pickup trucks, but more suited for mounting in my car). With some minor modifications to the coil bracket, it lined up with my car's original coil mounting location, so that's where I mounted it.

I took this picture right after I finished with the conversion. I have since wrapped and tidied up the new wires, and I removed that temporary jumper wire I made for the ballast resistor wires, and I soldered a jumper wire across the two terminals in the back of the ballast resistor, and then plugged the wires back onto it.

[Cooter]

Are we in the presence of a Master Debater ?

yes, yes we are.  An arrogant one too. . Most likely of the northern "PompusdouchebagusMAXIMus". Most likely from the "dissmissiousoutofhandeous"tribe.

[MaximRecoil]

Are we in the presence of a Master Debater ?

yes, yes we are.  An arrogant one too. . Most likely of the northern "PompusdouchebagusMAXIMus". Most likely from the "dissmissiousoutofhandeous"tribe.

LOL @ your paper cups from the sidelines.

[John_Kunkel]

The proof has been presented for all of my statements, and/or the statements contain independently verifiable information. If you wish to contest anything I've said, then present your argument(s).

Ok, let's review your "statements"..... I ask "why the ISO relay"...your reply "because of the low voltage due to the crumby Mopar connections". Wrong answer, correct answer should be "because the HEI requires more amperage" (although the HEI is often hooked to the stock wiring with no smoke appearing.) The correct answer (which you didn't allude to 'til a page later) would have avoided this (moan) debate.

I state that "faulty connections should be fixed" rather than a Band-Aid approach because stock Mopar ignition needs full voltage too. Your reply is a pedantic dissertation on the workings of a ballast, ignoring the fact that more voltage in is more voltage out...if the ballast provided a constant output voltage as you claim it'd be called a "regulator".

What you fail to realize is that all of your "proof" has been your "because I said so" or links to other people saying so which doesn't give one a real sense of credibility.

[MaximRecoil]

Ok, let's review your "statements"..... I ask "why the ISO relay"...your reply "because of the low voltage due to the crumby Mopar connections".

Here's what I actually said (as opposed to your false quote):

You can if you want to, but the relay is better. The GM HEI module wants a steady 14 volts or so (no ballast resistor is used), and with the thin factory wires combined with going through the crappy 44-year-old bulkhead connector twice, and through the key switch as well, you're likely to have significant voltage drop just powering it from the ignition switch.

I pointed out three things combined that can be responsible for voltage drop (relatively long run of thin factory wires, going through the crappy 44-year-old bulkhead connector twice, and going through the ignition switch as well).

Wrong answer, correct answer should be "because the HEI requires more amperage" (although the HEI is often hooked to the stock wiring with no smoke appearing.) The correct answer (which you didn't allude to 'til a page later) would have avoided this (moan) debate.

No, it isn't just a matter of amperage. The HEI module performs best with a steady ~14 volts (it can operate at lower voltages but it may be erratic and it may shorten the life of the module). It also draws 4-5 amps of current. The stock wiring can handle 4-5 amps of current without melting, but due to the relatively high resistance of the stock circuit, you get significant voltage drop. A lower resistance circuit (such as you get from installing a relay) allows that current to pass with practically no voltage drop. As a bonus you take the load off the relevant terminals of the bulkhead connector and off your ignition switch.  

I state that "faulty connections should be fixed" rather than a Band-Aid approach because stock Mopar ignition needs full voltage too. Your reply is a pedantic dissertation on the workings of a ballast, ignoring the fact that more voltage in is more voltage out...if the ballast provided a constant output voltage as you claim it'd be called a "regulator".

The definition of a ballast resistor isn't going to change no matter how much you ignore it.

ballast resistor [′bal·əst ri′sis·tər]
(electricity)
A resistor that increases in resistance as current through it increases, and decreases in resistance as current decreases. Also known as barretter (British usage).

McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Scientific & Technical Terms, 6E, Copyright © 2003 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

What part of that definition don't you understand?

And:

Ballast resistor

A resistor that has the property of increasing in resistance as current flowing through it increases, and decreasing in resistance as current decreases. Therefore the ballast resistor tends to maintain a constant current flowing through it, despite variations in applied voltage or changes in the rest of the circuit.

McGraw-Hill Concise Encyclopedia of Engineering. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

Again, what part of that definition don't you understand?

You wouldn't want to use a ballast resistor to regulate the output of e.g. a 60 amp alternator; it would have to be huge. Voltage regulators in cars don't work on the simple principle of increasing and decreasing resistance to stablilize voltage/current. By having a reference voltage and controlling the field current to the alternator, they can regulate alternator output directly, rather than just letting the alternator go full tilt and then trying to resist the hell out of the resulting high voltage/current in order to acheive regulation. That's why a car voltage regulator can be small and not really get hot.

As an analogy, suppose you want to keep an object in a room during a cold winter at 70 degrees. You could simply regulate the output of your heating system with a thermostat set to 70 degrees (this is analogous to a car's voltage regulator, i.e., controlling the output of the source directly), or you could let the heating system go full blast and wrap the object in some hypothetical insulating material which increases its insulating properties as the air temperature increases (this is analogous to a ballast resistor). The former method is obviously the more efficient and sensible method of doing it.

A ballast resistor on the ignition circuit makes sense because the voltage there needs to be lower than the main voltage of the entire electrical system that the voltage regulator is maintaining, and it is a relatively low current circuit, so the ballast resistor doesn't have to be very big. You can't use a second car-type voltage regulator in that application unless you have a second alternator dedicated to that circuit (because car-type voltage regulators control alternator output), which would be absurd.

And no, stock Mopar ignition doesn't "need full voltage too". If you feed it say 12 volts, the ballast resistor will output ~9 volts, and if you feed it 14 volts, the ballast resistor will still output ~9 volts; the only difference will be that the ballast resistor will get hotter in the latter case (because it increases resistance as input increases, thus creating more heat).

As for "faulty connections should be fixed"; there's nothing "faulty" about it; the stock Mopar ignition wiring simply wasn't designed for HEI, obviously.

What you fail to realize is that all of your "proof" has been your "because I said so" or links to other people saying so which doesn't give one a real sense of credibility.

False. None of my proof has been "because I said so"; everything I've typed is independently verifiable.

By the way, I said:

According to your "logic", relays should never be used in a vehicle at all. The engineers should always just specify heavy-duty switches and heavy gauge wire instead. Maybe you should get rid of the horn relay in your car, and simply "fix that", you know, just beef up the wiring all the way to the steering wheel. You say that a horn relay failure is trivial, and replacing all the wiring in the circuit would be a major pain? Doesn't matter! We can't have that "Band-Aid solution" that Chrysler's engineers slapped on your car, now can we?

Your reply = ?

[Cooter]