How to change a distributor in a 318

[ws23rt]

nor do electrical engineers automatically own a timing light or know how to use one. However:

Unless you have spoken to every engineer (in USA at least) and know this to be fact (proven beyond all reasonable doubt), I am dismissing this twaddle!

You are going to get spanked for that Fred

[Fred]

nor do electrical engineers automatically own a timing light or know how to use one. However:

Unless you have spoken to every engineer (in USA at least) and know this to be fact (proven beyond all reasonable doubt), I am dismissing this twaddle!

You are going to get spanked for that Fred

I hope so ws. I like a good spanking.   

[MaximRecoil]

nor do electrical engineers automatically own a timing light or know how to use one. However:

Unless you have spoken to every engineer (in USA at least) and know this to be fact (proven beyond all reasonable doubt), I am dismissing this twaddle!

Is that a joke? For starters, my statement is inherently true, given that there is no mechanism in this universe which automatically grants a person a timing light and the knowledge to use it upon their becoming an electrical engineer. By the way, it requires more than just knowledge in the field of electricity; e.g., you have to know what timing marks are and where they are located, and what to physically do with the device once you have it hooked up, and you have to know what you are seeing actually means; none of which is part of electrical theory.

Secondly, even if it were not inherently true (which it is), you don't have to have spoken to every electric engineer; all you need is to know one that doesn't own a timing light or know how to use one.

you would have to figure out how to put a couple relays in it before it would work correctly

You are going to get spanked for that Fred

I hope so ws. I like a good spanking.   

*Ching*
*Ching*

[Fred]

nor do electrical engineers automatically own a timing light or know how to use one. However:

Unless you have spoken to every engineer (in USA at least) and know this to be fact (proven beyond all reasonable doubt), I am dismissing this twaddle!

Is that a joke? For starters, my statement is inherently true, given that there is no mechanism in this universe which automatically grants a person a timing light and the knowledge to use it upon their becoming an electrical engineer. By the way, it requires more than just knowledge in the field of electricity; e.g., you have to know what timing marks are and where they are located, and what to physically do with the device once you have it hooked up, and you have to know what you are seeing actually means; none of which is part of electrical theory.

Secondly, even if it were not inherently true (which it is), you don't have to have spoken to every electric engineer; all you need is to know one that doesn't own a timing light or know how to use one.

Yes it is, just wanted to see if you had a sense of humour.

I'm curious, do you know one electric engineer that doesn't own a timing light?

[MaximRecoil]

Yes it is, just wanted to see if you had a sense of humour.

I'm curious, do you know one electric engineer that doesn't own a timing light?

I know several that that I worked with at Edwards Systems Technology in Pittsfield, Maine. None of them knew cars, nor did they care to. They didn't know car audio either, even though the principles behind it were right up their alley.

[John_Kunkel]

Here's what I actually said (as opposed to your false quote):

Tomato, tomahto.

You can if you want to, but the relay is better. The GM HEI module wants a steady 14 volts or so (no ballast resistor is used), and with the thin factory wires combined with going through the crappy 44-year-old bulkhead connector twice, and through the key switch as well, you're likely to have significant voltage drop just powering it from the ignition switch.

And the relay doesn't have contacts like the ignition switch? And the relay doesn't have connectors? Take note that newer ignition switches have multiple contacts in both the IGN and ACC circuits due to the proliferation of components that run through the ignition switch, so the actual load (and voltage drop) will vary with the year of the car.

I pointed out three things combined that can be responsible for voltage drop (relatively long run of thin factory wires, going through the crappy 44-year-old bulkhead connector twice, and going through the ignition switch as well).

And I suggested FIXING the existing system to supply a constant voltage rather than a band-aid approach which adds additional reliability of multiple connections. The simple fact is, for many years, people have taken advantage of the product in the link below and have wired it to the original factory wiring.

http://www.designed2drive.com/

The definition of a ballast resistor isn't going to change no matter how much you ignore it.

Never had a problem with your definition of the ballast only with your assertion that low voltage in won't result in low voltage out with a degradation in performance and that the ballast maintains a constant output voltage. You're implying that if 14V in results in 9V out then 100V in will result in 9V out. Read your own "proof",  "property of increasing in resistance as current flowing through it increases, and decreasing in resistance as current decreases. Therefore the ballast resistor tends to maintain a constant current flowing through it". I won't waste the bandwidth with a definition of "tends to".

As for "faulty connections should be fixed"; there's nothing "faulty" about it; the stock Mopar ignition wiring simply wasn't designed for HEI, obviously.

That doesn't fly either, there is a myriad of things the wiring wasn't designed for and is currently operating them just fine. Reality versus theory. And, as I stated earlier, the HEI conversion has been around longer than the relay idea.


[

According to your "logic", relays should never be used in a vehicle at all.

Never said that, never even hinted at it; relays are dandy for avoiding long runs of heavy gauge wire and that's how they're used in most modern installations....not as band-aids to replace faulty components.

[MaximRecoil]

Tomato, tomahto.

No. In your false quote only the bulkhead connector was blamed for voltage drop. In the real quote I blamed a combination of things. This difference is not a matter of "Tomato, tomahto".

And the relay doesn't have contacts like the ignition switch? And the relay doesn't have connectors? Take note that newer ignition switches have multiple contacts in both the IGN and ACC circuits due to the proliferation of components that run through the ignition switch, so the actual load (and voltage drop) will vary with the year of the car.

The relay doesn't have 44-year-old internal contacts in unknown condition. It has brand new internal contacts rated for 40 amps (which is a lot). My car is a '69, which I've stated in this thread already.

And I suggested FIXING the existing system to supply a constant voltage rather than a band-aid approach which adds additional reliability of multiple connections. The simple fact is, for many years, people have taken advantage of the product in the link below and have wired it to the original factory wiring.

http://www.designed2drive.com/

And I have rejected your suggestion for various reasons. For one, it is a crapshoot, because I don't know what sort of condition the internal contacts in the 44-year-old ignition switch are in. For another thing, it requires replacing a significant amount of factory wiring, some of which is behind the dash, which is not only a pain, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't have to even if it wasn't a pain. And I don't have to, because a relay solves the issue without messing with the original wiring.

Your misuse of the terms "fixing" (nothing to "fix"; the original wiring simply wasn't designed to meet the demands of HEI in the first place, obviously) and "Band-Aid approach" has already been pointed out, and as such, both of those terms are dismissed from your text.

And that HEI module bracket you linked to is utterly irrelevant. Where and how you decide to mount the HEI module has nothing to do with whether you decide to use a relay or not. And as a side point, it is not even a good method of mounting the HEI module. By using that bracket, you plug up the drain holes in your distributor, and you put it in a hard-to-access-with-a-screwdriver place if you ever need to remove it for replacement. You'd probably have to remove the distributor to get to the mounting screws, at least on a small block.

Never had a problem with your definition of the ballast only with your assertion that low voltage in won't result in low voltage out with a degradation in performance and that the ballast maintains a constant output voltage.

As long as the voltage input equals or exceeds e.g. ~9 volts, and there is sufficient amperage, then increasing voltage and available amperage will not change anything, aside from making the ballast resistor hotter.

You're implying that if 14V in results in 9V out then 100V in will result in 9V out.

I'm not "implying" that, I'm stating it flat out. 100 volts in will result in e.g. ~9 volts out, until the ballast resistor burns out of course, which would be rather quickly in the case of 100 volts input, and then you have 0 volts out (I've already pointed this out previously). It is the same idea as a lightbulb. If you used one in series as a resistor (light bulbs are often used in this manner as circuit protection), and you give it say 100 volts when it is only designed for 12, it won't let that excess voltage through, it will simply burn out, opening the circuit and stopping the flow of electricity altogether.

Read your own "proof",  "property of increasing in resistance as current flowing through it increases, and decreasing in resistance as current decreases. Therefore the ballast resistor tends to maintain a constant current flowing through it". I won't waste the bandwidth with a definition of "tends to".

"Tends to"? That's your argument now? Note that I've been using the tilde symbol all along [~]. That's because there is no such thing as perfect voltage regulation, because nothing in this universe happens instantaneously. So, it takes time (very little time, but time nonetheless) for the ballast resistor to respond to changes in voltage input, i.e., to increase and decrease resistance. So you will see minor fluctuation, as you will with any voltage regulation device. This is irrelevant though, because your claim is that increased input voltage = increased output voltage, period, which is false. "Tends to" means always working toward something. A ballast resistor is always working toward maintaining a steady voltage because resistance always increases as voltage input increases, and vice versa. This is why a relay is irrelevant for the stock ignition system. If you say, increase the input voltage from 12 to 14 volts, the ballast resistor responds by increasing resistance, keeping the output at ~9 volts, which utterly defeats the purpose of adding the relay in the first place (decrease resistance to the input, and the response from the ballast resistor is increased resistance through to the output; do you see the pointlessness there?). Adding a relay would only serve to make your ballast resistor run hotter. It would do nothing for performance of the ignition system.  

That doesn't fly either, there is a myriad of things the wiring wasn't designed for and is currently operating them just fine. Reality versus theory.

Yes, it does "fly". That "there is a myriad of things the wiring wasn't designed for and is currently operating them just fine" is irrelevant, because it doesn't change the fact of the matter with specific regard to the HEI conversion, which is: the stock wiring doesn't provide ideal voltage to an HEI module, period. There is more than one solution to this, and I prefer the relay solution. I couldn't care less about your particular preference in this case, especially since you've established that you don't know what you're talking about multiple times.

And, as I stated earlier, the HEI conversion has been around longer than the relay idea.

That was a mere assertion (an irrelevant one at that); you certainly didn't establish it. Given that a relay is an extremely common method of addressing voltage drop between a component and switch in general, and has been for far longer than any of us have been alive, who's to say when it was first used in an HEI conversion?

According to your "logic", relays should never be used in a vehicle at all.

Never said that, never even hinted at it;

I didn't say you said it, I said your "logic" says it.

relays are dandy for avoiding long runs of heavy gauge wire and that's how they're used in most modern installations....

Not just to avoid long runs of heavy wire, but to avoid heavy duty switches as well, which is exactly how I'm using the relay, thus you've just conceded the entire argument, and you've negated your suggestion to "fix that", since following that suggestion of yours would result in "long runs of heavy wire".  

not as band-aids to replace faulty components.

Since that's not how I'm using the relay (see above), this statement of yours is dismissed as irrelevant.

[Fred]

Yes it is, just wanted to see if you had a sense of humour.

I'm curious, do you know one electric engineer that doesn't own a timing light?

I know several

Congratulations.

[MaximRecoil]

Congratulations.

So you asked a question, got an ordinary reply, and your response is a smartass remark? Are you a child? If you are not chronologically a child, then you are certainly tantamount to one.

[JB400]

I haven't seen or heard the word dismissed used so many times since I got out of school

I see no reason to be an dick to Fred just because of a smart remark.

[Fred]

Congratulations.

So you asked a question, got an ordinary reply, and your response is a smartass remark? Are you a child? If you are not chronologically a child, then you are certainly tantamount to one.

sticks and stones............   

[MaximRecoil]

sticks and stones............   

Case in point.

[Fred]

sticks and stones............   

Case in point.

Dismissed as irrelevant.

[Cooter]

sticks and stones............   

Case in point.

Dismissed as irrelevant.

[JB400]

That is absurd

[flyinlow]

My son's '70 Charger was sitting in the garage, I have two volt meters and did some checking. This is a single resistor Mopar EE set up. I did not install it. I hooked  one meter to the input side of the ballast resistor. I hooked the other to the output side going to the coil.

First readings are ignition on, engine not running, and the headlights on to lower the voltage.

Second readings are ignition on, engine not running, headlights off and a small battery charger on to raise the voltage.

A .73 increase in input voltage changed the output by .39 volts.

Is my ballast resistor going bad? The car runs well.  

[ws23rt]

Congratulations.

So you asked a question, got an ordinary reply, and your response is a smartass remark? Are you a child? If you are not chronologically a child, then you are certainly tantamount to one.

Not only that--- He was off topic to begin with.
What was he thinking asking about timing lights anyway. 
Timing an engine has nothing to do with changing a distributor.
It is a task that is performed after a distributor is changed.  Duh

[JB400]

Can that be claim be verified?                                                                                                       

[Fred]

Can that be claim be verified?                                                                                                       

You need to be quick......Before it's dismissed.

[MaximRecoil]

Dismissed as irrelevant.

^^^ Textbook example of the "monkey see, monkey do" concept; very popular among children.

Is my ballast resistor going bad? The car runs well.  

When I took my ballast resistor out to solder a jumper wire across the back of it, I noticed that the porcelain or ceramic rod through the coiled wire was broken, so you could check that.

In any event, as long as the ballast resisor is keeping the voltage down to a level that's safe for the coil, that's all that matters. A properly functioning ballast resistor will keep the output voltage fairly steady despite variations in the input voltage, but tight regulation of voltage in this application isn't required.

Also, you might try measuring the voltages with the engine running. Having the engine running will put the load of the coil firing the plugs through the ballast resistor, which perhaps would give you more meaningful test results.

[ws23rt]

Can that be claim be verified?                                                                                                       

The fact that I said it speaks to that. No further verification is required. "Ching"

[JB400]

Can that be claim be verified?                                                                                                       

The fact that I said it speaks to that. No further verification is required. "Ching"

I believe that has been proven wrong.

[ws23rt]

Can that be claim be verified?                                                                                                       

The fact that I said it speaks to that. No further verification is required. "Ching"

I believe that has been proven wrong.

That I was proven wrong has yet to be done.
1. In order to prove that was wrong one would have to presume that what I say was not some sort of sarcastic notion.
2. Or condescension to bait someone into making an ass of them selves.  (in public no less)

[Fred]

Can that be claim be verified?                                                                                                        

The fact that I said it speaks to that. No further verification is required. "Ching"

I believe that has been proven wrong.

That I was proven wrong has yet to be done.
1. In order to prove that was wrong one would have to presume that what I say was not some sort of sarcastic notion.
2. Or condescension to bait someone into making an ass of them selves.  (in public no less)

I'm very much enjoying my own arse (ass) at the moment as I've been relegated to monkey status!  

[ws23rt]

 

Can that be claim be verified?                                                                                                        

The fact that I said it speaks to that. No further verification is required. "Ching"

I believe that has been proven wrong.

That I was proven wrong has yet to be done.
1. In order to prove that was wrong one would have to presume that what I say was not some sort of sarcastic notion.
2. Or condescension to bait someone into making an ass of them selves.  (in public no less)

I'm enjoying my own arse at the moment as I've been relegated to monkey status!  

Are you spanking yourself Fred ?