No start issue electrical or fuel?

[WH23G3G]

Now before I battled the brakes on this 65 Valiant I had it where it would start up and run. It's a 170 Slant Six with a fairly new points distributor, coil, wires, plugs, wiring harness, ballast, regulator, relay, reman Holley 1bbl. It's been about a year sitting outside though without regularly running. If I shoot carb cleaner in the carb and start it up it runs until the carb spray burns off usually not even 3 seconds. Even pressing the gas in after shooting the carb with carb spray it won't stay running. I see there is fuel in the fuel filter. I didn't have a helper so I couldn't crank and watch for spark. So if it does this does that mean it's not getting spark or has a weak spark? Or is it a fuel problem? When we had it running before we had the idle set to specified 550rpm, and 5 btc timing with vacuum blocked off. We even tried to drive it around the neighborhood but it didn't have enough power to get going. Driving around the yard it did ok, you could even get a tire spinning. It popped through carb no matter if it's in drive or just idling if you were to press in the gas fully. We tried the timing at 2.5 btc which is correct for a 65 then switched to 5 which is correct for a 66. It still popped. Well now I just need to get it started again. One mechanic said it maybe a weak ignition.

[A383Wing]

you have already proved that you have spark if it runs on carb cleaner...if filter has gas in it, carb probably needs a rebuild...

Bryan

[WH23G3G]

Could it at all be possible the spark is not strong enough? It's a reman Holley 1920 1BBL that's probably not a year old. The only adjustment on it that I made was to the idle. Could the mixture be off? The company said the mixture was already pre-set at the factory on an engine. It wasn't running too rich either, there was no odor of fuel while it was running and idling for a long time last fall when we had the engine going.

[myk]

I helped a buddy out with his '55 Crown Vic with a similar problem as yours.  Thing is, he runs the car maybe once a few years, and it always takes a ton of starting fluid/'carb cleaner to get it started, but of course it wouldn't stay running.  Draining the tank, blowing the lines clean and going through the 'carb would get the Ford going again, and I imagine a fuel issue is what you're also dealing with.  Good luck...

[WH23G3G]

Well we got the running part fixed. Yeah I had a friend spray carb cleaner down while I cranked it. It fired up and kept running although the idle was too low. Also the economizer cover on the top of the fuel bowl was leaking a little so I tightened it up. So we idled it up and let it run for like 30 mins. Then I noticed the temp gauge was buried on H for hot but the engine didn't seem hot. The little 170 was running beautiful not missing a beat. Idling as smooth as a brand new car, no fuel odor, no smoke, no noise. I'm wondering if sitting so long outside couldve got the thermostat stuck, but the water wasn't boiling, no bubbles, no overflow, it wasn't low either but the needle was buried on H. The gauge does work but maybe it's off. I put in a new switch about a year ago. I guess I need to start it everytime I go over to the house it's at since I'm over there at least once a week. 

[A383Wing]

was radiator warm or cold?

[WH23G3G]

radiator was warm but not hot, hoses were hot but not too hot to touch, and the motor didn't even put off a lot of heat like it would be if it's severly overheating which as was stated on the gauge. I do think all these gauges need to be sent off to be reworked. The gas gauge doesn't work at all and I checked and cleaned the ground. But it probably needs a sending unit. The ammeter gauge works normal. I want to make this car really reliable so I want to get all the gauges reworked and the speedometer, and the biggest expense of all a brand new dash harness. I will take my laser thermometer over there tomorrow and check the the thermostat housing temp when it reads hot.

[A383Wing]

replace the temp sender for the temp gauge with a new one and see where it reads..I just went through this with my car...engine ran normal temp, but gauge was way off...replaced sender and all is good

[myk]

radiator was warm but not hot, hoses were hot but not too hot to touch, and the motor didn't even put off a lot of heat like it would be if it's severly overheating which as was stated on the gauge. I do think all these gauges need to be sent off to be reworked. The gas gauge doesn't work at all and I checked and cleaned the ground. But it probably needs a sending unit. The ammeter gauge works normal. I want to make this car really reliable so I want to get all the gauges reworked and the speedometer, and the biggest expense of all a brand new dash harness. I will take my laser thermometer over there tomorrow and check the the thermostat housing temp when it reads hot.

Or do what some of us have done, which is to replace the OEM gauges with new, modern gauges.  With all due respect to OEM I need instruments that I can rely on...

[Cooter]

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that the carb has sat too long. Not good on 'em. I'd be looking into a fuel starving problem. Even with some "reman" carbs, they tend to be harder to get running again after sitting. Course, Ethanol ain't doing it no good either.


One quick thing to try would be LIGHTLY tapping on the side to "unstick" the needle and seat to see if change occurs.

[WH23G3G]

Yeah it seems to be running ok since we got it started again with the carb cleaner. I'll remember the points if it sits up too long. I'm still working on the front brakes which is the last part before I can get it tagged on and on the road again. I did put a new temp switch on when I changed out the thermostat and water pump last year but I can swap it out again, it's only like $4. I did look into getting the gauges rebuilt. It's pretty expensive no matter which company you use. You're talking about $300-$400 for rebuilt temp and fuel gauge, and the switch to voltmeter on the ammeter gauge. Then it's like another $150 for a speedometer rebuild. I'm not sure it's worth it. Hopefully it's just the temp sender and fuel sending unit that's causing the gauges not to work right.

[A383Wing]

could be bad gauge voltage limiter as well

[WH23G3G]

Could the voltage limiter be bad and the gauges still work? The ammeter seems to be working correctly. The fuel gauge doesn't do anything at all, even after cleaning the ground strap and terminal on the sending unit. And the temp gauge reads way too high eventhough the engine is overheating. So could that still be the limiter?

[MaximRecoil]

Could the voltage limiter be bad and the gauges still work? The ammeter seems to be working correctly. The fuel gauge doesn't do anything at all, even after cleaning the ground strap and terminal on the sending unit. And the temp gauge reads way too high eventhough the engine is overheating. So could that still be the limiter?

A bad voltage regulator can send too much voltage to the gauges and cause them to read too high. The voltage is supposed to nominally be limited to 5 volts. Give the temperature, fuel, or oil pressure gauge 12 volts, and the needle will go all the way to the right immediately. This will also burn the fiberglass insulation off the nichrome wire in short order, which will permanently ruin the accuracy of the gauge, even after you replace the regulator, because without insulation, more heat from the wire will reach the bimetallic strip for a given voltage input. Too much of 12 volts will not only burn off the insulation, but will eventually burn through that hair thin (34 gauge / .0063" diameter) nichrome wire, resulting in a completely dead gauge (which is most likely what happened to your fuel gauge).

I recently fixed my completely dead temperature gauge myself by replacing the nichrome wire (see this thread). Before I fixed it it looked like this:



Note that the insulation on the original nichrome wire is burned off completely except for some black charred remains, and the wire is also broken. This was the result of too much voltage, too many times (I converted to a solid state 5 volt regulator so it won't happen again).

It is a very tedious and fiddly job, wrapping that thin wire around the bimetallic strip forty-eleven times and getting each end attached to the terminals, but it only cost me the price of the wire.