Tremec TKO 600 driveline angles - more questions.

[XH29N0G]

I just had a setup from Hurst driveline installed and it looks to me like the engine and transmission are tilted down by about 4 degrees (front to back), which makes the pinion angle wrong.  I did some geometry calculations and it looks like I will need something like a 1.5 inch spacer on the transmission mount to bring the engine/transmission to level.

First, the thickness of these spacers seems high to me.  Is this what is needed?

Second, from visual inspection, I do not see how I will fit a spacer (1.5") without modifying the tunnel significantly.  Those with experience, did the tunnel require significant modification?  Have others found the kits to be off by such a significant amount?  Could there be something else that is causing this.  I am using a B block with one solid mount and one stock mount on the front.  I do not think the height of the front was changed. 

How much have others needed to modify the tunnel?  I think the tunnel that I have is unmodified and simply what came with new floor pans that were installed when the car was restored.

[Cooter]

This was a concern as well when I stabbed the T-5 (Borg Warner) in the General Lee. Yes, the rear was down. If I had to do this again, I'd be looking into a way to lower the engine instead of raising the trans.  With all these kits like Alter-K-Tion set ups out there, this should be ALOT easier than raising the trans.

[XH29N0G]

This was a concern as well when I stabbed the T-5 (Borg Warner) in the General Lee. Yes, the rear was down. If I had to do this again, I'd be looking into a way to lower the engine instead of raising the trans.  With all these kits like Alter-K-Tion set ups out there, this should be ALOT easier than raising the trans.

Interesting thought that raises a few questions about whether there are other things that can change driveline angles. 

Do driveline angles change with adjustments of the front suspension height?

I assume the mounted height of a 383 is similar to a 440, but do not know.  Does anyone know otherwise? 

With the exception of interferences with headers and steering, it looks to me like there might be some room to lower the engine. I assume there are no modifications to engine mounts that would do this a little.  It strikes me that a combination of small moves of the engine down and tail shaft up would do something similar to raising the tail shaft by a larger amount.

I thought I would ask, but think I will stick with attempting to raise the tail shaft of the transmission.

Thanks

[werner]

OLD TOPIC BROUGHT BACK, HOW DID YOU END UP FIXING THIS ISSUE ? I HAVE HAD SAME PROBLEM AS WELL

[XH29N0G]

I did not fix it correctly.  I need to modify the tunnel to allow the transmission to rise up a little in the rear to do this properly.  What I did was to make the angle on the transmission and the angle on the pig parallel (nose up).  This is not ideal, but I do not have the vibrations I had before. 

When I get a chance, I will pull it and modify the floorpan so I can raise the rear of the transmission and have things line up the way they should.

[John_Kunkel]

I think playing with the pinion angle is a lot more practical than hacking the floor.

[RallyeMike]

Interesting thought that raises a few questions about whether there are other things that can change driveline angles.

Do driveline angles change with adjustments of the front suspension height?

I assume the mounted height of a 383 is similar to a 440, but do not know.  Does anyone know otherwise?

With the exception of interferences with headers and steering, it looks to me like there might be some room to lower the engine. I assume there are no modifications to engine mounts that would do this a little.  It strikes me that a combination of small moves of the engine down and tail shaft up would do something similar to raising the tail shaft by a larger amount.

Adjusting torsion bars does nothing to change engine position of the engine/trans.

383 and 440 will have the exact same driveline angle/center of trans output and crank center line.

I previously suggested in a thread that it is entirely possible to put shims in between the K-member and body to lower the engine relative to the the trans mount, however this won't buy you much, and still raises the very end of the trans possibly causing interference. There is plenty of play in the steering and other geometry to accommodate a good size shim. Of course, some folks could not bear to hear of shimming the K, but that is exactly what Mopar did in 73 up B-bodies to accommodate rubber isolation biscuits.

The bottom line is that the tunnel modification is probably the way I'd go about this. Of the course the OD manufacturers downplay this as a likely need because chopping up the floor is objectionable to so many people.   

[Mike DC]

   
That has been my impression of this swap too.  "No hacking" means it can be fit, but not necessarily like the factory would have wanted to do it.   

Same with the A500/A518 overdrive auto swaps.  They are known as hacking-needed swaps, and it still looks to me like people have compromised the driveline angles to reduce the amount of hacking. 




The new Passon 5spd looks like the only really GOOD way to get 5+ manual gears into an A/B/E without hacking.

[1974dodgecharger]

Sorry mike but do want to hear that passion is a direct drop 5 speed.  Its too simple and something is wrong with it....

   
That has been my impression of this swap too.  "No hacking" means it can be fit, but not necessarily like the factory would have wanted to do it.   

Same with the A500/A518 overdrive auto swaps.  They are known as hacking-needed swaps, and it still looks to me like people have compromised the driveline angles to reduce the amount of hacking. 




The new Passon 5spd looks like the only really GOOD way to get 5+ manual gears into an A/B/E without hacking.

[Cooter]

The $4-5k pricetag is whats wrong with it imo.

[Charger4404spd]

The $4-5k pricetag is whats wrong with it imo.

I agree

[oldschool]

The $4-5k pricetag is whats wrong with it imo.

I agree

worse than that is the couple year wait..........

[John_Kunkel]

The $4-5k pricetag is whats wrong with it imo.

The TKO600 is about the same, I sourced the parts from different places getting the best prices and wound up spending $3979.29

[BudW]

How would the driveline angle get changed? 

The engine location is unchanged.
Transmission crossmember (I think) is in same location & height.
The Transmission output shaft location should be in general location as original was.
I can't see the (transmission side) driveline angle changing but a degree (or two at the most). 

The big thing is to get output shaft location at same height as original (measured from top of yoke to floorboard?). 
If it is same, I don't see what the problem would be. 

BudW

[XH29N0G]

I don't know exactly, but I believe it is in the vertical plane and may be that the transmission is a little higher, so it hits the floor boards before the correct angle is achieved.  The puts it tail down relative to the original one.

[werner]

From reading some older posts the people have said to make trans fit tight to floor there are some ribs on trans that need to be trimed in order for trans to sit higher and more of floor needs to be opend up more than what Keisler tells you too.

[RallyeMike]

How would the driveline angle get changed?

The engine location is unchanged.
Transmission crossmember (I think) is in same location & height.
The Transmission output shaft location should be in general location as original was.
I can't see the (transmission side) driveline angle changing but a degree (or two at the most).

The big thing is to get output shaft location at same height as original (measured from top of yoke to floorboard?).
If it is same, I don't see what the problem would be.

BudW

"I think"....... "should be in same general location"......"a degree or two at most"......

This stuff actually does matter and it does need to be considered. That's why the "I installed OD and my car vibrates" post comes up over and over again.