Perfect Engine Build

[SUPERSTAR14]

I'm asking for help building the "perfect engine".........
Obviously I would like a lot of HP and torque but also need to drive on the street. I will never take it to the strip but I want it to sound as though it belongs there. I plan to run non-oxy fuel only, I don't want to get stuck having to run race fuel, although I like the smell and could from time to time if there was a benefit. I could add hydro-boost if I need to as the car is being completely re-done.

Simple question: What would be "The Perfect Engine"?

I have:  1969 440 block and forged crank
            1969 727 auto
            8 & 3/4 sure grip
            4.10 gears
            26.6" tall rear tires
I'd like to see a minimum 500 HP but I'm not sure how street-able 650 HP is. So any opinions and help will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
-Pat

[resq302]

Best person to probably as would be firefighter Ron!   

[Dino]

Perfect covers a very broad range here so what would a typical perfect drive be in your book?  That may help us give you the best answer possible.

I drive my car a lot, it's no trailer queen, and the best I ever did to make it more street happy was to stick a granny gear in the axle.  I would go nuts with a 4.10 in my car.  Fun off the line yes but that's where it would end for me.

I will go back to a 3.55 or similar once I have a 6 speed trans but with a stock 727 you'll need to pick what you want.  Fast off the line or able to drive on highways without getting a headache.

I have a fairly stock 440 with a purple cam so it sounds real nice but it does not make the numbers you want.  Not sure what numbers it does make but it's not 500 anything.   


My recipe for the perfect engine/drive train?  Mild 440 with EFI and T-56 trans, 28" tall tires and matching rear end gears.  It'll be able to go fast, burn tires at will and drive on the highway at 70 turning less than 2000 rpm.  But that's just me.

[SUPERSTAR14]

Perfect covers a very broad range here so what would a typical perfect drive be in your book?  That may help us give you the best answer possible.

I drive my car a lot, it's no trailer queen, and the best I ever did to make it more street happy was to stick a granny gear in the axle.  I would go nuts with a 4.10 in my car.  Fun off the line yes but that's where it would end for me.

I will go back to a 3.55 or similar once I have a 6 speed trans but with a stock 727 you'll need to pick what you want.  Fast off the line or able to drive on highways without getting a headache.

I have a fairly stock 440 with a purple cam so it sounds real nice but it does not make the numbers you want.  Not sure what numbers it does make but it's not 500 anything.   


My recipe for the perfect engine/drive train?  Mild 440 with EFI and T-56 trans, 28" tall tires and matching rear end gears.  It'll be able to go fast, burn tires at will and drive on the highway at 70 turning less than 2000 rpm.  But that's just me.

I'm looking for opinions based on what others have done or wish they had done, that would be the basis for "perfect" I guess.

I'm not concerned about the gears I have on the highway, I plan on mostly around town driving, any traveling more than 100 miles it'll be loaded in an enclosed trailer.
The trans is staying in for now, if I decide I hate the set-up I can/will change it.
Thanks
-Pat

[cudaken]

I'm asking for help building the "perfect engine".........
Obviously I would like a lot of HP and torque but also need to drive on the street. I will never take it to the strip but I want it to sound as though it belongs there. I plan to run non-oxy fuel only, I don't want to get stuck having to run race fuel, although I like the smell and could from time to time if there was a benefit. I could add hydro-boost if I need to as the car is being completely re-done.

Simple question: What would be "The Perfect Engine"?

I have:  1969 440 block and forged crank
           1969 727 auto
           8 & 3/4 sure grip
           4.10 gears
           26.6" tall rear tires
I'd like to see a minimum 500 HP but I'm not sure how street-able 650 HP is. So any opinions and help will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
-Pat

Well Pat, if you want something that is easy to drive, will make 600 + HP and not idle like a can of rocks.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/Bodywork/1-IM000081_zps490b79f4.jpg.html]

Dennis from Reed Cams did the cam and she idles pretty smoothly and as soon as I gave her a little gas I was planted in the seat! One of the reason I wanted to try a Blower is I got tired of having to pull a gear when I wanted to pass or get moving at a low speed. When I had the Old 426 Maxie in my Road Runner with its 628 lift cam it was a dog till I hit 3000 RPM's, then it was Show Time! But how often do you see 3000 RPM's as a daily driver.

Cost of the Blower and parts where right around $3500.00 ten years ago. I found a local guy that is a BDS dealer. I have read on the BDS site a cast crank and cast piston 440 will live with a blower and make 500 HP.

Now, you listen to Ron (Firefighter) he knows way more than I ever thought I knew!

Cuda Ken

[justcruisin]

Comes down to $ and intended use really. A stock stroke 440 will give you 500hp with a zero deck short block and a set of eddy's, if you just want it to sound tuff, the 4.10's will allow you to run a big enough cam for that. I built a basic 440 to around 475-500hp with 3.23 gears and I love it. I like to put miles on my car and use it mostly on the highway, hence the 3.23's, it has a great pull of power when accelerating from 50-60mph in second gear (727). If you want 600+ HP/torque a stroker will be more streetable. Or you could top it off with a blower.

[firefighter3931]

There are several nice builds in the proven engine build forum that will meet your expectations and then some. 

A zero deck 440 with cleaned up RPM heads/street dominator intake/holley 850dp/headers and the Comp XS282S solid flat tappet grind will hit that mark easily on pump gas. 



Ron

[Cooter]

If I was gonna build 650 HP with a street driven Big block, it wouldn't have a bog 'ole rumpity cam in it. It WOULD have PORTED Fuel Inj. set up with a nice, Big, Fat, Turbo making around 18 PSI....

Idle stock, able to turn below 2500 RPM in 6th gear without "Camming" down the Interstate, and still get decent Fuel Mileage.

Money to build this beast however would be the nail in it's coffin.

[mhinders]

If I was gonna build 650 HP with a street driven Big block, it wouldn't have a bog 'ole rumpity cam in it. It WOULD have PORTED Fuel Inj. set up with a nice, Big, Fat, Turbo making around 18 PSI....

Idle stock, able to turn below 2500 RPM in 6th gear without "Camming" down the Interstate, and still get decent Fuel Mileage...

I fully agree with you! 

[SUPERSTAR14]

There are several nice builds in the proven engine build forum that will meet your expectations and then some.  

A zero deck 440 with cleaned up RPM heads/street dominator intake/holley 850dp/headers and the Comp XS282S solid flat tappet grind will hit that mark easily on pump gas.  



Ron

Ron, I've looked through that forum and have not "picked" one build to copy, perhaps I'm a bit overwhelmed by the options..........
I have been out of the "hot rod" stuff for so long I'm not sure what direction to take. I'd like to build something as described above however I'm not sure what it will be like. Is 500HP enough? Is 650HP too much? You recommended a solid flat tappet, why not a solid roller? or hyd roller?          I can't say I care about ET's as it will just be a town cruiser/bruiser and I'd never race it, I also don't care about long distance highway driving.(at least that's how I feel today).
Would you be willing to spec a build for me? (with further discussion of course)
Is there a fee for that?  

Thanks
-Pat

[SUPERSTAR14]

Well Pat, if you want something that is easy to drive, will make 600 + HP and not idle like a can of rocks.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/Bodywork/1-IM000081_zps490b79f4.jpg.html]

Dennis from Reed Cams did the cam and she idles pretty smoothly and as soon as I gave her a little gas I was planted in the seat! One of the reason I wanted to try a Blower is I got tired of having to pull a gear when I wanted to pass or get moving at a low speed. When I had the Old 426 Maxie in my Road Runner with its 628 lift cam it was a dog till I hit 3000 RPM's, then it was Show Time! But how often do you see 3000 RPM's as a daily driver.

Cost of the Blower and parts where right around $3500.00 ten years ago. I found a local guy that is a BDS dealer. I have read on the BDS site a cast crank and cast piston 440 will live with a blower and make 500 HP.

Now, you listen to Ron (Firefighter) he knows way more than I ever thought I knew!

Cuda Ken
[/quote]

That looks awesome! I like it, I really do! (on your car)lol

I prefer the naturally aspirated and full hood  (on my car)lol

-Pat

[HPP]

For a street driver, the most important thing, IMO,  is to forget about horsepower numbers and concentrate on maximum torque in the rpm range you will use it most often. Build to maximize this and power will take care of itself.  I'd also recommend a build with as much dynamic cylinder pressure as your local fuel supply will tolerate.

4:10 with a 26.6" tire means you are going to be spinning plenty of rpm, even in town, so mileage isn't even on the radar, although high compression will assist with that some.

[Cooter]

1 more thing to remember is if your engine is making enough power you don't need a lot of gear.

[cudaken]

1 more thing to remember is if your engine is making enough power you don't need a lot of gear.

Cooter speaks the truth! That is why I went with the Blower! Charger runs 2:76 Suregrip rear end and when giving 1/2 throttle at 1500 RPM's it would all most push my fat butt between the crack in the bucket seat!

Other side benefit? Wife never wanted to go for a drive!  But I have been married 40 years now so you may feel differently for now. 

Think about! Next best thing to having the fastest car in town? Having Everyone Think You Have The Fastest Car In Town! 

Cuda Ken

[Challenger340]

There are several nice builds in the proven engine build forum that will meet your expectations and then some. 

A zero deck 440 with cleaned up RPM heads/street dominator intake/holley 850dp/headers and the Comp XS282S solid flat tappet grind will hit that mark easily on pump gas. 



Ron

The above represents one of the most cost-effective, BEST bang for the buck, BB Mopar Engine Combinations ever designed under a KISS(Keep It Simply Stupid) Criterion. Seen lots of them...never fail to impress
and,
More than likely closer between 525-575hp mark depending on the Head work and clean-up....PLENTY in a Street Car....to put a smile on the face of even the most ardent Drag Racer...

[mhinders]

I agree, it makes most sense to design under a KISS(Keep It Simply Stupid) Criterion...but some of us just love to do it the difficult way     ...like myself... 

[SUPERSTAR14]

There are several nice builds in the proven engine build forum that will meet your expectations and then some. 

A zero deck 440 with cleaned up RPM heads/street dominator intake/holley 850dp/headers and the Comp XS282S solid flat tappet grind will hit that mark easily on pump gas. 



Ron

There are several nice builds in the proven engine build forum that will meet your expectations and then some. 

A zero deck 440 with cleaned up RPM heads/street dominator intake/holley 850dp/headers and the Comp XS282S solid flat tappet grind will hit that mark easily on pump gas. 



Ron

The above represents one of the most cost-effective, BEST bang for the buck, BB Mopar Engine Combinations ever designed under a KISS(Keep It Simply Stupid) Criterion. Seen lots of them...never fail to impress
and,
More than likely closer between 525-575hp mark depending on the Head work and clean-up....PLENTY in a Street Car....to put a smile on the face of even the most ardent Drag Racer...

Thanks for the replies,
Does anyone have a dyno sheet for a build like this?

Would someone like to provide the specs for this build?
It sounds like it would be plenty of engine for what I need and I'll give it a try.
Thanks
-Pat

[firefighter3931]

Hi Pat, the engine build outlined above is pretty basic and makes good power. I'd say that 500hp on the street is plenty and lots of fun. You'll never be able to get the car to dead hook with street tires at that power level so why would you want more ? When you start going above 600hp the factory block becomes an issue and you risk cracking the cylinder walls & main webs. 

Here's a good writeup on the basic 440 build using the XS282S cam....complete with parts list and dyno results 


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6000.0.html


Ron