Tricky darn police

[Wakko]

It happens.  When I first got on the job I hung out with cops all the time and started drinking more than usual.  Didn't take me long to realize that this was a bad idea, so I completely stopped hanging out with cops outside of work and I'm back to rarely drinking.  Definitely better. 

[Dale The Bold]

I've had a few encounters with police officers that I'd call "a thief with a badge."  I think a lot of those cops see a young, strikingly handsome guy like me and assume that I must be up to know good, so they desperately look for something.  When they find nothing, they make stuff up.  But, I would have no objections to having a drug sniffing dog give me or my property a random whiff from time to time if it helps keep the druggies off the streets.  But I do get offended at the assumption that I'm a druggie. 

And, as far as drinking, I've probably had a grand total of one and a half beers in my life.  Just never took the time to acquire a taste for something so bad-tasting.  I'm about as G-rated as you can get.  I don't even take aspirin.

Sometimes I get offended living in a world where everyone expects a 20-40 year old guy to be a partier, druggie, pervert, etc.  It's not too far for them to go from that to accusing you.

[Drop Top]

I have lived all my life just on the outskirts of a little town that is full of druggies/tweaker. These people will do anything for their next fix. Including kill anyone that gets in their way. Or sell their body for a $5 dollar bill. I have grown up with these people first hand. I can spot a tweaker a mile away. I will be the first to step up and have a dog sniff out my shop, home or car at any time. For that matter any property I own. I despise anyone at all that uses any kind of illegal substance. That includes the smoke. The small stuff can easily lead to the bigger stuff. I have seen it happen to people that you would never believe it would happen to. Including my own family. I am all for anything that will help cut down on drugs of any kind. This will lead to less crimes on the street. Even if it where my own son or daughter. I would be the first to have them locked up. This way I might be able to start to help them. If they where caught with it in their car. They know how it got there. Let the dogs loose!

The way some people are going off on this subject you would think they where guilty of possession, wouldn't you?

[TK73]

The point is to get the drugs off the street...if the police want to be sneaky in how they do it, so what?  It's proven over and over again to be LEGAL and I have zero moral or ethical problem with it.  Most narcotics are found on accident during interactions based on other reasons.  What are we supposed to do, pull over a car for weed?  Hope that while they're walking down the street a suspect will just let it fall out of their pockets?  We constantly find drugs by stopping someone for a BS taillight out and simply asking to look in the car. 

I'm not really sure what your argument is for...don't you want drugs off the street legally? 

So, when you stop someone for a taillight WHY are you asking to search the car?  Just asking...

I quit the drugs last century and the drinking last year so my cars are clean.  If I get pulled over for any reason can I just refuse to let my car get searched?  And if I do, what will happen next?

[Wakko]

I'm asking to search the car to see what they have that's illegal.  Sometimes we find firearms, sometimes it's narcotics.  I usually tell people up front to be honest and I'll work with them.  If they have a nickel bag or a joint, I really don't care.  If they have 10 grams or something, then they're going for the ride.

[bad1032]

You never know what you will find. We had one pulled over and asked if he had anything illegal and he said yep guns and drugs. He was Honest so we had consent to search, found the stuff and towed the car, Gave him a ride to his house and got a indictment later. If your honest, its the best way to be, If ya lie it only makes it worse. As far as search you don't have to let them, but if its in plain view, like seeds on a seat or roaches in the ash tray or floor, oh well  ya get a ride to the cross bar hotel for the night. Story changes when ya act like a dick. yes I admit i work with some dicks, and I would just love to bitch slap some of them for the way they act, All cops are not dicks, some are, Just like John Q Citizen,

[Wakko]

I have a guy I work with that does that..."If you tell me I'll take care of you." then he takes them for the ride anyway....bullshit policework.   

[bad1032]

Yep. I have a few of them, even have some that I have thrown off the scene before,I have given rides home many times. Been questioned by upper management  before about it, but it helps build repore with the bad guys. If I take care of them they are a wealth of info later.

[Wakko]

Does your Fire/Rescue do that to you?  Go on scene of a one car crash and say "This guy's drunk!  Aren't you going to arrest him??"   "No.  I don't tell you how to stick a needle, don't tell me how to use handcuffs."   

[bad1032]

Yep. we had one chief here he was a dick, They ended up locking him up and towing the fire truck,

[89MOPAR]

 Ok, let me expand what I said earlier.
DropTop is shopping at the local deptartment  store with his wife. Upon leaving they are stopped by police who ask them to empty their pockets and get spread eagle against the wall [ no throwing against wall] .  DropTop does as he is asked.  So they both get a "terry frisk" .
   After being searched Droptops wife is led away in handcuffs. It turns out she has a counterfiet $5 bill in her purse.  Droptop complains that she recieved the $5 bill as change in that store.  Police say, "well we will work that out if she is innocent"
    Turns out that someone had been passing counterfeit money in this department store previously.  Droptop and his wife have not been at this store in over a month.
  Is it OK for Droptop to be searched ?   With only the vaguest of connections to the counterfeiting [ she shopped at the same store as 1000's of other people]

What then if Droptop later finds out that the counterfeiter was KNOWN to be an Albino ? 
Something he and his wife obviously are not .    Where was the "probable cause"  ?
That is my issue- probable cause.

Wakko- is it not true that a police officer can force entry into a building / home if he believes that someone is inside the home and hurt/ needs assistance ?

[Wakko]

A cop cannot just kick in your door unless he has a warrant, is in fresh pursuit, believes reasonably that someone's life or health is in iminent danger (fight or heart attack) or if you have a warrant and live there.

Yes, we can make forced entry in certain cases, such as someone in need of medical assistance.

As far as DropTop and his wife:  If a police officer asks them to empty their pockets and put their hands on the wall, THEY DON'T HAVE TO.  Unless they are being investigated for a specific crime (i.e. they receive a tip that a couple matching their description is passing false five dollar bills at Macy's) it would have to be a consentual search.  DT can say "Sorry officers, we don't have time to talk to you." and they can keep right on walking.  If they decide to talk to the cops and DT's wife allows the cops to toss her purse and they find the five dollar bill, the chances are not good that she would be charged with it for being bogus.  There's what you call "Mens Rea" or criminal intent.  It's pretty easy to prove that DT's wife got the bill in her change in the store and had no knowledge of it being false.  She's not guilty of a crime and therefore cannot be arrested for it.  She'd lose the five bucks though.   If for some reason the cop was a rookie or a real ass that hates DropTop and DID arrest his wife, the State Attorney wouldn't go near it and the charges would never be filed. 

However if DT's wife had a small container with pills Xanax or something and didn't have them in the prescription bottle, she could be arrested for that

[bull]

I quit the drugs last century and the drinking last year so my cars are clean.  If I get pulled over for any reason can I just refuse to let my car get searched?  And if I do, what will happen next?

I'm not a cop but I believe they can make you sit there until they get a search warrant authorization over the radio. I assume they would have to have probable cause to get that warrant but probable cause is a pretty vague system IMO. Basically it's the opinion of the officer as to whether or not you're a druggie, and maybe they don't care. Maybe they just want to mess with you and make you sit there for 30 minutes so you're late for work or to school to pick up your kids. Like Wakko says there are bad apples in every profession and they seem to stand out above the other 95% who are good. In a sense we really are at their mercy but so far in this country there seems to be a fairly good system of checks and balances. It doesn't feel that way for those who've been harrassed but I don't think it happens to a majority of innocent people.

[Wakko]

You would have to have some serious probable cause to get a search warrant on a traffic stop. 

[bad1032]

Yep and If ya waited the 3 or 4 hours on side of the road waiting for the search warrant to be signed and executed a good lawyer would have you off and walking and case dismissed.

[SuBLimE 69]

Yep and If ya waited the 3 or 4 hours on side of the road waiting for the search warrant to be signed and executed a good lawyer would have you off and walking and case dismissed.

Nope, if you have enough PC to obtain a warrant then there is no need to wait, just search.  The unreasonable time delay starts when you have nothing to go on and no reason to search.  maybe you got some info from a snitch that "dope" is in the car you have stopped but the driver won't let you search the vehicle.  If thats the case get a dog there fast or if the snitch is a good one and has been used before, go and get your warrant.  Getting warrants for car stops almost never ever happen.  not from my experience anyway. 

As far as the opinion of the dog walking around vehicles at a "licesne checkpoint"....perfectly fine.  The dog isn't searching your car is he?  No, he is walking around sniffing the car and looking for a reason to search.  If you don't like it don't carry anything in your car that is going to get you locked up.  Better yet do us all a favor and don't drive.  Driving on the roadway is a privelage and not a right.  If you can't play by the rules then your privleage should be taken away.

The "drug checkpoint" is an old tactic and it still works to this day.  If you don't wanna get popped keep your nose clean.

The cop bashing around here never seems to end.  "DON'T HATE DA PLAYA, HATE DA GAME"

[dads_69]

My dad was a cop for 9 years here. He worked undercover as well drove the daily beat. He did what some of you say, Wakko for won, he gave some people a break sometimes and hauled many of them into jail. Were we lived, many knew he lived were we did. He didn't want to piss in his own yard persay, but still had a few people try crap once in a while. I wanted to be a cop myself after high school, but my dad kept telling me, know you don't, be something else he always said. I took the first test a few years ago and passed it, but the second test I failed big time. Reason, the physiological test. I scored a 43 or 47 % on it questioned by three FBI guys and man, I wanted out of that room so bad, I was pissed and laughed a lot also. Long story made short. I believe its  a good idea for the stops, think about it, the crap that goes in this world today, a check point could save your life maybe. I applaude the cops we have here.

Mark

[bad1032]

There are certin rules for check points. Like a DWI  one,  you have to give them an escape route, why, no clue its what the supreme court has rulled, that is why we have chase cars to watch and see who turns off, Most of the time they commit a violation and thats your p.c for the stop. Some just roll right up and its up to the Police to detect alcohol or .Most states HAVE to do so many or they loose there Hiway safety money. we have to conduct 4 a year. If you search a car because a snitch told ya it had dope you will run a 50/50 chance on loosing it, He best be past proven an reliable  or good by case. We  have had many like that and alot have been dismissed, Do cops make up stuff sure,  it is tricks of the trade, If your a good talker you can get a consent search with no problem, Been doing it for 16 years.

[SeattleCharger]

I was choosing a topic to judge in a moot court competition and one of the subjects was "Ruse Drug Checkpoints."  I had never heard of such a thing so looked it up.  Now what do you think of this?

Seems in several states cops have been putting up signs on the freeway that a drug checkpoint with drug dogs is coming up ahead and then when the drivers take off on the next exit before the "checkpoint", they use that for probable cause to pull the driver over.  Or they simply watch for the driver to throw stuff out of the car and then nab him for littering, check the litter and double nab.  The intriguing point is that the Supreme Court has ruled drug checkpoints are not legal, so they could not even legally do what they are pretending to do.  Something about this just doesn't seem fair, though it is interesting.  No?  Kim

  Are you in law school?     Just curious.    This reminds me of the trap the police had in Tacoma, WA where they told hundreds of people with warrants that they had won an exotic vacation or something like that and when all the people showed up to claim their prize, they were individually escorted from the crowded vacation registration line/desk to a back room one at a time, and "surprise", handcuffs awaited.    So those people had already broken the law, or at least had a warrant saying the court was soon to prove they were guilty of breaking the law, but they were still tricked by a fake scam.     

    Busting people by lying and tricking them seems like a bad idea, just doesn't sit well with me.   Its a pretty tricky idea though I gotta admit.

[Todd Wilson]

Yep and If ya waited the 3 or 4 hours on side of the road waiting for the search warrant to be signed and executed a good lawyer would have you off and walking and case dismissed.

The cop bashing around here never seems to end.  "DON'T HATE DA PLAYA, HATE DA GAME"

I may seem a little hard on cops but its due to all the corruption we have around here in my town. Anyone can research my town and read up on it. We have a Sherrif doing time for stealing money from the town while running a jail annex and making sure certain people and companys got contracts from bids while he got a kick back.  We had a group of local cops go to prison for theft as they had a big theft ring going on here in town. They would search business's at night that had alarms go off doing a thunderstorm. They got to see what all was inside and then weeks later go steal them blind. DId that to a lot of houses they went to on calls to see what they had at the house. We had another group of cops go to another town for a training meeting and they never went to the meeting but instead party'd all weekend using city expense accounts. We wont even go into the drunk driving at the police golf tournament every year where cops play golf and 99% of them cant walk a straight line when they leave due to the beer drinking on the course. I see our local cops every day not want to sit at a red light so they turn their lights on and go thru the intersection only to shut them off again and go downthe street to pull into a parking lot and sit and chat with the other copcar. I see them drive 10-15mph over the speed limit all over town. No red lights and siren or yellow flashers. I understand they have to run silent sometimes to sneak up on something thats going on but we have a local transcript online and printed in the paper every day showing all the court stuff and arrests and so forth and theres not that much serious crap that goes on in this town.


As for the drug dog sniffing your car  he is in fact searching your vehicle but the laws dont show that. Its another way to bend the rules.  I dont do drugs and I have seen what they can do to people and familys. I am all for trying to knock out the problem but theres lots of other ways to do it that would be more effective then thinking everyone is a dope head at a traffic stop until the dog walks away.

When I was younger and out in the party scene a lot drugs were everywhere. It was very easy to get them. Why cant the cops get them and bust some people that way?! I can count the # of times I have smoked pot on one hand. Tried some speed one time and didnt like it and have never sniffed anything up my nose. I drank a lot of beer back in the day and went to a lot of keg and house partys and there was plenty of drug use going on at those partys as well as drinking. If I could see what was going on and know where to buy drugs so easily why cant cops get more good busts?!?!


Todd

[John_Kunkel]

The cop bashing around here never seems to end.  "DON'T HATE DA PLAYA, HATE DA GAME"

So, it wasn't Pete Rose's fault; it was the game?

Blaming the system didn't work in '46 Nuremberg.

[SuBLimE 69]

I knew better than to put my .02 in this thread.  It's takes more than a room temperature IQ to understand what I do for a living...AN HONEST LIVING.  Until you can have some respect for the law and understand that not all Officers are bad...... please don't call 911.  We shouldn't have to run and rescue a hypocrite just so you can bad mouth me later from the other side of a computer screen.

Kansas...corrupt...please man, you are talking to someone who is from Atlanta.  get a grip. 

[Todd Wilson]

  Until you can have some respect for the law and understand that not all Officers are bad...... please don't call 911.  We shouldn't have to run and rescue a hypocrite just so you can bad mouth me later from the other side of a computer screen.

Kansas...corrupt...please man, you are talking to someone who is from Atlanta.  get a grip. 

I would just as soon handle a situation on my own and not call the cops but I cant. I have to dial 911.  I have to wait for you guys to come shoot the intruder in my house because I cant or you will haul me to jail for shooting them!


Get a grip.....so Atlanta is full of crooked cops too eh?



Todd

[Dave22443]

Here in Virginia, we have concealed carry permits and the cops like it that way.  Besides, where I live its 30 minutes minimum to get a cop at your door, blue lights and all. The only reason we call the cops is to do the paperwork, because by the time they get here, thats really all thats left to do.  However, they rarely have to do that because with our concealed carry laws, there isn't much crime here to worry about.  But go to up Washington D.C., where they pretty much ban ALL gun ownership, and see how warm and fuzzy you feel.

I've been reading and thinking about the drug sniffing at traffic stops and in all reality, I guess I'm cool with it.  I don't use drugs.  I don't sell drugs.  And I don't associate with anyone who does.  Some may not think its moral to have a drug sniffing dog check your car out at a "registration and license" check, but it is legal and I'm cool with that, so long as the dog doesn't wet my tire in the process.

However, I am not cool with asking someone coming out of a shop to put their hands on the wall and consent to a search without some pretty serious probable cause.  Yes, the people may have the right to rufuse and walk away, but how many people will actually do that?

Officer: I'm going to have to ask you to place your hands on the wall and spread your legs.

"Suspect": (looks at uniform, notices gun on hip, badge on chest, bullet proof vest)  Uh... sure... anything you say Officer.

[Wakko]

I would just as soon handle a situation on my own and not call the cops but I cant. I have to dial 911.  I have to wait for you guys to come shoot the intruder in my house because I cant or you will haul me to jail for shooting them!


Get a grip.....so Atlanta is full of crooked cops too eh?



Todd

Why can't you shoot an intruder in your home?  Cop or not, I'd blow his shit away.   Why are you calling Doug crooked?  Do you know him?  Do you have experience with him being dishonest?  Would you call me crooked as well, simply because I wear a gold star? Honest questions, no sarcasm.