What a crappy afternoon.....

[b5blue]

  OK, the 89 Cherokee has been running good and getting the job done while the Charger project gets pushed slowly forward. Checking under the 89's hood I see a one inch bit of rubber sticking out of the Harmonic balancer a few weeks ago. I check with my friends over on the Jeep forum (NAXJA) and order a new one from Rockauto as many had problems with the Dorman one fitting that every local parts supplier has in stock. Wednesday I check under the 89's hood and now the rubber is out all the way around the steel sandwich, more than 1/4" in some spots. Crap I've waited too long it's going to let go and raise hell in there, so I get off at one today to get it to a repair shop.
  I go to pull 200.00 out of the ATM and it malfunctions....WTF...I tell the one guy behind me warning him of what happened. He says I'm wanting 200.00 also, I'll try my card. He gets HIS 200 and even lets me watch him do it then counts it out for me. I try again and get 200.00 but now my receipt show my balance is down 400.00!
  I drop the Jeep off and walk home to call the Credit Union, yada-yada-yada I have to go to the branch office and fill out a report. Then the shop calls, the part won't fit, it's too tight. (He put calipers on it to gauge it and it's off.) He gets a Dorman one locally and it fits fine but now my bill is 179.00 instead of 85.00! I get there and ask how a 48.00 part got to 90.00 and he cuts it to an even 150.00, great now I'm just down about 315.00 from the 133.00 I thought I signed up for. (Part and labor.) So tomorrow I'll fill out the form and wait for them to audit the ATM and Monday ship the balancer back to Rockauto and wait to see if I get any of the 240.00!
  None of this would be "A Big Deal" but I've saved dearly the last four months and TODAY I had intended to pay off my very last credit card (Out of many.) to free up my cash flow so I could really get some big progress on the Charger!  I'm sooooo sick of waiting!
     

[burnout.dawg]

Welcome to my world!

[JB400]

I don't trust machines with money.  A person is bad enough to deal with, but there's too many ways a machine can screw up your accounts.  I've seen it happen too many times.

[bull]

Sorry about your misfortune. We all have days like these though. My turn will be coming soon enough I'm sure.

[b5blue]

Thanks guys...I needed to vent! 

[Supercharged Riot]

I made the mistake of buying a brand new truck.
I got no cash flowing toward my charger ever since. Im getting rid of it whwn its paid off and buying a cheaper truck

I kniw what u mean. Big liabilities will divert your charger funds easily

[b5blue]

  A few years back I bought the 89 XJ for 800.00 and dumped over 2 grand overhauling/servicing/repairing any and everything except the A/C system. It chewed trough 2X more than intended but has run like a champ since. I'm lucky I caught this balancer, I've never seen one fail in all my years under the hood of many cars and boats. Today I checked things over under there and Larry, the young mechanic just ripped off the rubber shield that protects the front lower engine bay rather then remove all the assorted screws/bolts and clips that hold it. I had told him to just leave it off so I could look around in there, he must have thought I didn't want it on there anymore.
  I'm so close to getting my Charger weather proofed, I've left the rear window out and trunk lid off to do the new headliner. With the rear bumper off waiting for the new rear wire harness install it's just enough not to drive it at all.   

[BrianShaughnessy]

The balancer on my old 91 Cherokee puked up like that several years ago....    But I didn't notice it until it had chewed thru the front timing cover.    I bought parts online from discountjeepparts.com  to save a few bux.  I ended up pulling the oil pan off and replacing the rear main seal also.   

I did my own work and had my backup vehicle to drive to work till I got it wrapped up.   

[b5blue]

I hear ya, normally the Jeep and Charger back each other up....

[A383Wing]

the balancer coming apart is a common problem....don't feel like yer the only one this has happened to

[Dans 68]

Hmm, I guess I had better check my '90 Cherokee balancer in the morning....   

Dan

[Cooter]

 
I get there and ask how a 48.00 part got to 90.00 and he cuts it to an even 150.00,

First off, sorry for your sh*tty luck, but.....

I have never understood this one being one that makes his living at a repair shop. Why is it you will pay AMD, etc. whatever they want for a piece of metal that looks like a 1969 Charger Fender [$700.00 Plus shipping when it clearly didn't cost that much to produce that one fender it's the other 50K that cost], yet when it comes to an automotive shop, people think we shouldn't make ANY money on parts at all?

Remember this, if repair shops ONLY made their money off labor, there would be NONE to install your balancer and you'd have been saving $40.00, but you'd have been off work a lot longer. Mark-up on parts is generally 30% or higher. Most times, the vendor has THREE (3) prices when it comes to selling. "Walk-in", "Full list", and "Cost" to shops....

That "Cost" one is so we make money. That's how the shops stay around to repair stuff. Walk-in is the dude walking in off the street. He REALLY gets hosed, but nobody seems to complain about how the full list is all but 3/4 of the "Walk-in" price. Oh yeah, I guess they cannot see that price so they don't really know they are getting hosed then huh? Ever wonder why people will go for the cheapest junk they can buy for the ride that they depend on??? Rock auto is cheapest for a reason people. Same with Tire Rack tires. It's not only just because they buy in "Bulk" that they can sell so cheap. Cheap parts aren't ness. "junk" either, but there's usually a reason why they are so cheap.
Kinda like the joke that coupons are at the grocery store. Do you really think the store is "Losing" money when you present that coupon???
No, they simply mark the food up to cover the coupon days, then hose the hell outta whoever doesn't have this little card with the letters MVP on it.

Lemme see....a $4.00 block of cheese "only" costs me $2.75 if I have this little card.....Yet, you are still making money at $2.75, so the poor basterd paying the $4.00 is just getting it right up the tailpipe....

[resq302]

I just had the steering go weird in my 07 F150 daily driver.  Steering would be fine and then get really tight and hard to turn and then be fine again.  I figured it was the p/s pump and brought it to a friend of mine who I trust and used to work for only because the pump was burried on the bottom part of the engine and seemed very rusted.  Come to find out he quotes me $300 for the job if it is the pump but could be more if there is more stuff involved.  Get a call from him later that day saying it is a lot worse than what we thought.  A valve or something must have came loose and messed up the rack and pinion which caused all kinds of contaminants to go through the system.  So now the $300 job turned into $1200 since the fittings for the p/s lines are all rusted and could break or strip when they go to get them off and now I need new lines.  On top of that, the pressure switch on the pressure side of the line is frozen into the line and might have to replace that switch too which no one seems to have around in the area.     All this before I had to tow my charger to the national NCPC show this past weekend.  They still have my truck and hopefully will be fixed today.  Luckily I had dads 09 F150 platinum ed. that was able to tow my trailer and car!  Still sucks to be out that money as I changed all of the fluids in the vehicle either at the recommended interval or before.  p/s fluid was always changed at 30,000 miles and I now have only 82,000 miles on this truck.  Sometimes I wonder why I baby and take care of my stuff when others beat the living crap out of things and don't do any maintenance and have no problems.   

[b5blue]

  Cooter I get your reply but understand I told Larry where the part was (AutoZone) and he said "Oh great they will deliver to me for free." Later when he called me back and told me 170.00 I didn't "fuss", I asked for a breakdown. When he quoted 79.00 for the balancer all I said was "so you mark up parts to full retail then."
  He replied "No that's what they charged me." At that point I told him they quoted me 45.00 and if they charged him more I'd take that up with the parts store not him. By the time I got there he had the bill at 158 and when he saw CASH it dropped to 150 even. I apologized for the part I supplied not fitting and the extra time it used up. We parted both happy all things considered. At a book of 1.1 hours labor he made 98.00 in 40 minutes of actual turning wrenches. I "was a mechanic" on Jaguars, Triumph and other imports for years, the "house" makes the real money not the mechanics.
 

[Cooter]

"the "house" makes the real money not the mechanics."
You got that right.
We get this every now and then. People 'Think' they can save money by buying their own parts. This isn't ness. true, as the labor goes up in order to recoup what was lost in mark-up on parts. No matter how you slice it, unless you are doing the repair yourself, a shop always wins...

[Steve P.]

The markup on parts is supposed to be part of the warranty to the customer. If I sold a battery with warranty and it died within that warranty limited time, I replaced the battery adjusting for how long they had it. I didn't get paid again to change out the battery.. Same with a water pump. If I put a waterpump on someones motor and made 30% over my cost and R&R time, it was replaced free to the customer if it leaked again within the warranty period.

Half of the parts you buy from Discount Auto Parts are the exact same part with different lengths of warranty time . Some are better parts or brands, but many are the same part with a longer warranty.

If someone came with their own parts and paid me to install their own parts, I told them ahead of time that I would NOT warranty anything but my work.

The house makes money on everything done and sold.  The one that breaks my chops is the ADDED COST for SHOP MATERIALS. That BS is PURE GREED.....

[hatersaurusrex]

Are there any shops that work like hair salons?  Where the person brings their own gear, experience and customers and then the house just takes a percentage?

I wonder how different things would be if you could find a good mechanic and be happy to pay them a premium for not jacking up your ride, because you came specifically to see them.

[Dans 68]

Like it has been said, when you bring your own "gear" (i.e., parts) only the labor would be warranted. My mechanic would do that if I asked, but any problems encountered would be billed back to me in additional labor, and at the shops premium rate; they need to make money. I would have no problem with him doing that.

When you find a good mechanic you keep them. I found mine years ago, and he takes care of my entire fleet. I trust him without hesitation with all my cars. I gladly pay more for his expertise and friendship.

Dan

[Cooter]

 The one that breaks my chops is the ADDED COST for SHOP MATERIALS. That BS is PURE GREED.....

Never happen. A shop cannot and will not open itself up to customers complaining/whining/bitching about mark-up on Brake cleaner/carb cleaner/oil Filters/ oil/ sealers/ etc. Anymore than they do already by putting Each and every little thing we used on the bill. It goes under the "shop supplies' label. That's how many do it, but I do agree some use it to make more money, but that was what it was designed for anyway.

EXAMPLE:
19?? Dodge Charger

Cust. Complaint: Oil leaking, change oil.

Part:
Oil filter $7.98
Oil 5 Qts. @ $6.80/QT.
Cleaner 4 Cans @ $8.60/Can
Sealer $7.50 Tube
Frt. Crank Seal @ $14.90/set.
1 Gal. Coolant @ $13/Gal.


Labor to Diagnose and install Frt. Crank seal @ $400.00 (4.5 Hrs @ $90/hr)



Now, for the Customer's side when they see this on the bill........


"WHAT? ARE F***ing Kidding Me!!!??? Brake clean only costs me at Auto Zoo Around $3.00/Can! Why is it so much more here? And why did it take you FOUR FREAKING CANS TO clean a spot that is the size of a 50 cent piece!?!?!" I can get Coolant For $8/Gal at the same place you got it. WTF!!

"What's THIS? $14.90 For the same frt. crank set I can get for only $7.00!!!? WTF? I got on my DC.Com website and they told me it should only take about 30 Seconds to diagnose a frt. crank seal leaking and only another 30 min. to repair it!!!You guys are rip off artists!?!? I'm NEVER COMING HERE AGAIN".


So, it simply gets put under the blank label of "Shop supplies".

[Cooter]

Are there any shops that work like hair salons?  Where the person brings their own gear, experience and customers and then the house just takes a percentage?You would be out of business in about three weeks. You already aren't trusted and cannot please the public, you might as well get paid for all the BS.Then, there's the problem of 'moonlighting' when it comes to mechanics. Unfortunately, we have the same reputation as most REALLY good house painters, body men, etc. Many have "extra curricular" activities they tend to spend HUGE amounts of money on, and will do anything to get at it. I once worked where one of the "Star" pupils had  what was told to us as a "Heart Attack" in the toilet. Come to find out, I found out how he was such a "Star Pupil". He died with a Heroin Needle hanging out of his arm in the toilet. Sure, he died of a heart attack when his heart exploded. Unfortunately, this is what is working on your family truckster....

I wonder how different things would be if you could find a good mechanic and be happy to pay them a premium for not jacking up your ride, because you came specifically to see them.I was surprised the other day to see at least FOUR (4) customers from the place I used to work follow me to the place I'm at now. I simply asked "why?" and the answers differed, but mainly were basically the same. They look at mechanics like Doctors. Once you get used to one doctor sticking his fingers in places on you you usually don't allow your partner to, you tend NOT to want to switch up that easily..
I take the time to EXPLAIN why their ride needs what and they respect that. They don't feel like they are left in the dark on things. I take time to ask them about how their day is going and how mine went. I take time to answer their questions even if it means I'm basically diagnosing their problem outside of the shop for FREE! All these things tend to mean a lot to people when it comes to their cars. The real trick it make someone feel like they are getting something for nothing. Once you master that, you can charge whatever you want. All they see is what they "Think" they got out of you for nothing.

[b5blue]

Update, C.U. refunded 200 on the 24th, Rock emailed they received part and need 4-5 days to examine to determine refund. The rubber splash shield that protects my Alt/engine is a discontinued part and Larry ripped it off instead of removing various fasteners properly. Online search shows it WAS a 15-20 part, now a later year model one is 67.00. So up 200, minus ordering and making new shield out of fabric impregnated rubber ?? 

[Steve P.]

Something on the type of oil leak or tear down is understandable. I am talking about the guy, (like me), who bought tires that came with free rotate and balance and when it comes time to do so they add $13.00 for shop supplies. Oil change specials for 29.95 for non synthetic and up to 5 Qts. of oil and then they add SHOP SUPPLIES. What SHOP SUPPLIES are needed other than the rag used over and over for many oil changes?? Or the 4 new shocks and they want to add shop supplies after labor.. No torch involved. No special anything. Just added because, " WE ADD IT TO EVERY BILL ". "How else can we stay open"? So I added: Maybe by being trustworthy and earning REPEAT customers!!!!   

The shocks I did not have done. They wanted just under $600.00 for 4 shocks on my F-250. NOT ANYTHING SPECIAL mind you. Just 4 gas magnums....

Ps. The truck was already in the air with all 4 wheels off for rotation...  You tell me!!

[b5blue]

Just why I quit working at the import shop.
  We got a Ferrari in, sat at some other shop for 18 mo. while they tried to get it running. Boss said fix it. Got an FSM or something to go by I asked. All he had was point and plug gap info from his parts book. (He knew I was the "electrical guy".) I went through the basics checking connections and current flow, pulled 12 plugs and checked the plug wires...all crappy. I want 12 new plugs, points, condensers, 2 caps and rotors along with plug wires for this I told him at the end of the day. (So far I got 3 hrs. on it.) I spent a few hours the next morning lubing linkages and advance in both dizzy's till everything was moving nicely, cleaning grounds and carbs. My parts show up and also he hands me two "universal plug wire kits for 8cyl." and said go for it.  WTF "Make plug wires for a Ferrari?" so 2 hours later this thing barks to life and is purring. I drain the old gas and oil and put fresh in and now it's really raring to go. I refuse to drive it as I'm filthy/sweaty and don't want the liability so Dennis takes off running it around for a 1/2 hour and comes back beaming. I got about 8 hours in this car and am pretty proud.
  He waits a week (To make it look good.) and hits the guy for about 3,000.00 (Mostly labor to trouble shoot.) and buys me lunch the day it's picked up. Soon after I found something better to do.   
 

[Cooter]

The simple fact is the public has informed itself about cars to the point of over informing themselves. By this I mean, They will all [on forums] tell you how to install four shocks on a typical truck, but NONE will try and explain things like Rusted up shock mounts that haven't seen a set of shocks in about 25 years.
Or Northern cars that rust all to hell in about 4 years. Nobody thinks they should have to pay for the extra labor it takes to repair a broken bolt, rusted parts, etc.

Granted, there are some bad techs/shops out there, but I'm only dealing with the reasons some of these charges may be. I know when I change oil, there's cleaners used on some of those stupid, plastic, shields every damn Vw/import I see seems to think needs them. Don't want someone coming back in the shop and swearing they didn't "Have any oil leaks until I changed the oil" right?

That scanner we have called a MODIS from Strap On? Cost us $10K and each year $1500.00 for updates. And Auto Zone will scan your junk for free. Surely you don't think we aren't gonna charge somewhere for that thing, after Parts store sold you an O2 sensor and it didn't fix that O2 sensor code. Surely you don't think we should charge you for scanning your car if they didn't right?

Everybody seems to come in the shop and want to know our labor rate. Ok, We tell them. The next thing out of their mouths is "Damn, ya'll high!! I gotta buddy down the road that'll do it for this"...I simply reply: "You better take off now before he changes his mind!" Once there, dude is a hack and screws the car up royally, then it's back at the shop to get corrected. You would not believe who people will trust with the car/truck they depend on and have their families in all in the name of saving $20/Hr labor rate. It's cheaper for a reason. Yet, when someone gets in a bind legally, they will pay a lawyer $500/Hr. Hmmmmm Who's GREEDY now?

I wonder when folks will begin to ask Wally world how much those tomatoes that came in a truck load cost them and why they have to pay three times as much for just 5 of them???
Or why a loaf of bread cost wally World about .050 and they marked it up to $3.00/loaf???
I mean, they buy it in truck loads so each loaf shouldn't cost that much right???
Or why The auto parts store got that TPS sensor for around $30.00 and it cost them walking in the door $128.00....
Or why the guy the have putting a roof on their house charges $5K for labor when the dude down the street will just slap shingles over top of the old ones for half that much???

Or the plummer.....
Or the Contractor.....
Or the.....

[Steve P.]

I get your grief Cooter, but I am a mechanic that has owned/operated 2 shops of my own. Also when I refered to MY TRUCK, I should have mentioned that I live in Florida and the truck has never seen salt or salt water. It's also an F-250, so it is an easy R&R.  I do realize that equipment costs quite a bit, but you make quite a bit with it.. AS you said, some will check for free, but a code doesn't usually point out exactly the problem. Only it's system. Also many problems are not easily found and finding takes time...

Back to my truck. Even if I put Bilstein's at $100.00 per corner they would still be getting $200 bucks to put them on!!!!  Even if the truck was in a field it isn't worth $200.00 labor!!!!! $50.00 per corner on a simple PICK UP TRUCK in Florida.. This is a zero rust anywhere truck. With my bad back and not using air tools I could change out all 4 in half an hour on the ground!!!! But they sure conned a woman there into a $200.00 tranny service on her 22,000 mile Honda. When she heard me light them up about my shocks she asked me if she was being taken.. I told her she needs to pay attention to her maintenance guide.

I understand full well that you have to make money to stay in business, but to be a lying thief is NOT the way I ever did business.

PS. my shops were in Rochester, NY.. HOME of the RUST BUCKETS..... 

[b5blue]

  I agree with both of you...sort of. My TRUSTED friends shop is/was too far for my emergency repair. I never ask for a discount, but always an estimate that be held to. Shops don't always get best pricing on parts and labor is a fuzzy area. If a shop is slow they may want more work and discount or increase. If they are busy they may not even want to do anything but get you back out to get to the next guy waiting.
  I know all this as Steve who I bought my Charger from owns/runs Trico Transmissions here in Largo. He's described much about both of your comments in one way or another, Mondays and Fridays are mostly a bitch and some Tuesdays they can be knee deep to boot.