Detroit files bankruptcy

[NHCharger]

Some interesting numbers:


"But let's look at the facts of whether too much government was to blame. As Kevin Williamson said from National Review economics blogger,

     Detroit today employs one city worker for every 55 residents, as opposed to one city worker for every 109 residents in Charlotte, which is just barely bigger than Detroit  and one city worker for every 101 residents in El Paso, which is one spot down from Detroit on the population rankings.

Detroit over the last several decades has been a hotspot for deceit and corruption, and even as such, one of the biggest issues is their pension program. Kevin Williamson continued on to say,

    Detroit maintains 13,000 government workers but has 22,000 government retirees burrowed into the body politic, and their health-care subsidies alone account for nearly $200 million of the city's budget. Pensions alone already account for a quarter of city spending; in three years, they will account for half. Pensions and city workers' health-care subsidies account for $561 per year from every resident of Detroit, which has a very poor population — average monthly income of barely $1,200 before taxes, a fifth of the population in poverty, etc. The official unemployment rate is 30 percent; the real rate is much higher."

[Tilar]

Some interesting numbers:

   Detroit maintains 13,000 government workers but has 22,000 government retirees burrowed into the body politic, and their health-care subsidies alone account for nearly $200 million of the city's budget. Pensions alone already account for a quarter of city spending; in three years, they will account for half. Pensions and city workers' health-care subsidies account for $561 per year from every resident of Detroit, which has a very poor population — average monthly income of barely $1,200 before taxes, a fifth of the population in poverty, etc. The official unemployment rate is 30 percent; the real rate is much higher."

That must make it about 3 to 4 times the national rate, maybe a bit higher. I think the actual unemployment rate across America was 13% or so the last I heard anything, and that has been maybe two months ago.  The gooberment is trying to keep actual numbers quiet so it's really hard to tell what they really are.

[AKcharger]

I thought I saw somewhere a company that does tours of run-down Detroit...Kinda like a "Squalor tour" I'd pay to go on it, though would feel more comfortable if it was in an Armored personnel carrier

[Mike DC]

         
It's no surprise the Detroit govt is overpopulated with workers.  The city population has been dropping like a stone for years.  Govts aren't known for retracting fast enough once it's time to retract.  (Did US military spending go back to pre-Cold-War levels once Communism fell?)

[Tilar]

Its only day one and its getting good already....


Michigan AG is pulling the rug from under this judges ruling


http://www.freep.com/article/20130719/NEWS06/307190075/

I just went back and read that article and it makes you think that our country would be a hell of a lot better off if we just outlaw lawyers.

[Dino]

Its only day one and its getting good already....


Michigan AG is pulling the rug from under this judges ruling


http://www.freep.com/article/20130719/NEWS06/307190075/

I just went back and read that article and it makes you think that our country would be a hell of a lot better off if we just outlaw lawyers.

Well you know what they say Tilar.  What do you call 200 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?  A good start.   

[Mytur Binsdirti]

From last October.................

http://washingtonexaminer.com/flashback-obama-2012-we-refused-to-let-detroit-go-bankrupt/article/2533249

[ACUDANUT]

I thought the UAW wages at 50.00 plus a hour would have helped Detroit out more ?

[Tilar]

I just went back and read that article and it makes you think that our country would be a hell of a lot better off if we just outlaw lawyers.

Well you know what they say Tilar.  What do you call 200 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?  A good start.   

Yeah  I was at a meeting this morning and our corporate lawyer asked what the difference is between a dead cat in the middle of the road and a dead lawyer in the middle of the road, There are skid marks right before you get to the cat.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Q: What's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?

A: One is a bottom dwelling scum sucker and the other is a catfish. 

[Budnicks]

I just went back and read that article and it makes you think that our country would be a hell of a lot better off if we just outlaw lawyers.

Well you know what they say Tilar.  What do you call 200 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?  A good start.   

Yeah  I was at a meeting this morning and our corporate lawyer asked what the difference is between a dead cat in the middle of the road and a dead lawyer in the middle of the road, There are skid marks right before you get to the cat.

I like that one...

[Budnicks]

Some interesting numbers:

   Detroit maintains 13,000 government workers but has 22,000 government retirees burrowed into the body politic, and their health-care subsidies alone account for nearly $200 million of the city's budget. Pensions alone already account for a quarter of city spending; in three years, they will account for half. Pensions and city workers' health-care subsidies account for $561 per year from every resident of Detroit, which has a very poor population — average monthly income of barely $1,200 before taxes, a fifth of the population in poverty, etc. The official unemployment rate is 30 percent; the real rate is much higher."

That must make it about 3 to 4 times the national rate, maybe a bit higher. I think the actual unemployment rate across America was 13% or so the last I heard anything, and that has been maybe two months ago.  The gooberment is trying to keep actual numbers quiet so it's really hard to tell what they really are.

yeah it's way more than the lame 7% they are all claiming it is, I'd estimate at-least double that...

[Tilar]

Oh absolutely. The "obama phone" only goes out to those on welfare and there are well over 13 million of those out there which equates to roughly 5% of our country has a free phone. I can assure you those people are not working, add that to all the good honest people out there that really are out of work, I'm betting actual is somewhere in the 14 to 17% range.

[Mike DC]

Oh absolutely. The "obama phone" only goes out to those on welfare and there are well over 13 million of those out there which equates to roughly 5% of our country has a free phone.

The welfare phone program thing is strange.  I'm surprised the program exists. 

Although it does occur to me that going without a cell phone is not as easy as it used to be.  Try finding a public pay phone when you need one today - even in a car, in a commercial/retail area, with an hour or more to search, you are pretty unlikely to find one.  I know because I've had to do it a few times in the last few years.  And the fact is that it's getting harder & harder to hold a job when it is difficult to get in touch with people, even for burger-flipping jobs.  The program is supposed to be for those on welfare but there is plenty of blurring the lines between employed & unemployed at that level.   

The land-line rates are also surprisingly high compared to cells anymore.  I was in college a bunch of years ago and it was already cheaper to get a cell phone than pay what they were charging us for land lines in the dorms.  I haven't even tried to buy a land-line for my apartment in a long time. 

"Free govt cell phones for those on welfare" sounds pretty ridiculous off the cuff because we are still conditioned to think of cell phones as a luxury. But if the program was "free govt land lines because phone booths are extinct" it would not sound nearly so absurd. And cells are only expensive in the USA because the corporate world knows they can get it.  The rates in many other places like Europe are much lower. 

Cell phones are trickling down to practically the planet over time.  The technology has penetrated farther into the world that things like automobiles.



I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the program.  Just commenting on it.

I would just like to see the govt pay for some public (pay) phone booths to remain in existence.  They don't need to be common but it would be nice if there were a few.  They could do that and give welfare recipients a free phone card for a certain number of minutes, for example. 

[Ghoste]

Were land lines provided free of charge to those on welfare?

[Tilar]

"Free govt cell phones for those on welfare" sounds pretty ridiculous off the cuff because we are still conditioned to think of cell phones as a luxury.

I would just like to see the govt pay for some public (pay) phone booths to remain in existence.  They don't need to be common but it would be nice if there were a few.  They could do that and give welfare recipients a free phone card for a certain number of minutes, for example.  

The "Free" part is what pisses me off because my 4 hour a day part time job pays more on all this "Free" crap than the lazy bastards that get the phones do. I do agree that it is hard to do anything without them due to a lack of phone booths.

But if the program was "free govt land lines because phone booths are extinct" it would not sound nearly so absurd.

Yeah it would. I guess I've fended for myself for so long that I hate that others just "ride the system", and to top the whole thing off I have a sister that has done it her whole life... to me she's a lazy ass too.   The one time I did ask for any help it was from an organization that I had actually donated money to for years (P.A.T.H.) and they basically told me my skin color lacked "color" and turned me down.    

[NHCharger]

I thought the UAW wages at 30 plus a hour would have helped Detroit out more ?

If you read that article is says the average monthly income is $1,200 a month, before taxes. Doesn't sound like many UAW workers live in Detroit.
Of course a judge has stuck her nose into this, claiming the bankruptcy filing was illegal. This is going to be long and messy and in the end the US taxpayer will end up paying for this.

[Ghoste]

The UAW wages?  How could they help when everyone is buying foreign cars?  Oh wait, it doesn't affect the American worker if we buy Asian cars because they are nearly all made here now and the domestics use parts and plants from other countries.
I guess it might also be worth pointing out that Detroit itself is not really a large city and most of the auto plants are in the metro area and those cities aren't the ones declaring bankruptcy.
I'm as guilty as anyone but we too often tend to think of Detroit as everything from the Ren Cen out to Pontiac and then Monroe to Algonac.
We do the same to Toronto and New York and LA and on and on.

[bull]

I can understand the anti-union rhetoric for the most part but the one critique I can never wrap my head around is pension infrastructures that are arranged via contract; negotiated and agreed to by both parties. It's not as if the unions can take anything they weren't promised to begin with. If the wage payers cannot afford to pay, or are not smart enough to create a solvent retirement fund, they shouldn't be making promises to fund the retirements.

[Paul G]

I can understand the anti-union rhetoric for the most part but the one critique I can never wrap my head around is pension infrastructures that are arranged via contract; negotiated and agreed to by both parties. It's not as if the unions can take anything they weren't promised to begin with. If the wage payers cannot afford to pay, or are not smart enough to create a solvent retirement fund, they shouldn't be making promises to fund the retirements.

Promises for votes. It is that simple. The unions fund a particular political party, that party wins, the party then channels funds back to the union. Each go round they all get a little skim ($$) off the till. And around it goes. It is a very corrupt system although it has been working out for them for a long time. Keep taking from the tax payers until there is no one left to pay taxes anymore. We are starting to see the end of the line with so many cities finally giving up and saying we just cant play the game anymore. California is another one who is not far behind, then New York and so on. It is only a matter of time.

When private corporations find themselves bankrupt all the money stops flowing. The poor retirees loose there pensions, the poor guys working each day hoping to get his pension some day looses it. It sucks. I know people who have lost there pensions when the company they worked for went belly up, it happens. Detroit is going to become political, and I would not be surprised if the feds don't bail out the city and fund the exorbitant pensions they pay out. Just remember who the feds get there money from....... you and me. 

[BB1]

Don't even need words.

[Budnicks]

The UAW wages?  How could they help when everyone is buying foreign cars?  Oh wait, it doesn't affect the American worker if we buy Asian cars because they are nearly all made here now and the domestics use parts and plants from other countries.
I guess it might also be worth pointing out that Detroit itself is not really a large city and most of the auto plants are in the metro area and those cities aren't the ones declaring bankruptcy.
I'm as guilty as anyone but we too often tend to think of Detroit as everything from the Ren Cen out to Pontiac and then Monroe to Algonac.
We do the same to Toronto and New York and LA and on and on.

[AKcharger]

[Old Moparz]

The Obama Phone - Free Cell Phones for Welfare Recipients     


Funny, it was started in 1985 when Reagan was in office.

http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline

[bull]

The Obama Phone - Free Cell Phones for Welfare Recipients     


Funny, it was started in 1985 when Reagan was in office.

http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline

The rampant abuse is recent however: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZUIDQ6TYU