Detroit files bankruptcy

[bull]

I say raze the place, give some of it back to the indians and turn the rest of it back into farmland.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130718/METRO01/307180103/Detroit-files-Chapter-9-bankruptcy?odyssey=mod

[Mike DC]

During a month of negotiations, Orr has reached a settlement with only two creditors: Bank of America Corp. and UBS AG. They have agreed to accept 75 cents on the dollar for approximately $340 million in swaps liabilities, according to a source familiar with the deal.

Unsecured creditors could take the biggest hit in bankruptcy court. Orr wants them to share a $2 billion payout on approximately $11.5 billion worth of debt, which includes an estimated $9.2 billion in health and pension benefits and $530 million in general-obligation bonds.

BofA & UBS will get 75% of what they are owed.  

Bondholders & pensioners will likely struggle to get 25%.



Now there's a shocker.   

[Cooter]

Now will it REALLY be 'Imported From Detroit'?

[DC_1]

Years of corrupt politicians, max exodus of the tax base, no inner-city jobs and out of control crime can't go on forever. 

[68X426]

[1970Moparmann]

Illinois isn't that far behind..  Hmm, what's the common theme here.

[chargerboy69]

Years of corrupt politicians, max exodus of the tax base, no inner-city jobs and out of control crime can't go on forever.  

All of this is true, right on the money. Politicians and gangs have ruined that city.

I am not old enough to remember Detroit the way it was, but I am lucky enough to drive through that war zone. . . I mean city    twice a month.

[Ghoste]

Illinois isn't that far behind..  Hmm, what's the common theme here.

Nor California.

[JB400]

I can see quite a few cities going bankrupt the way things are going.  Hopefully, the war zone doesn't spread.

[Mike DC]

  
Politicians?  Gangs?  


The overwhelming economic engine of that entire region has been steadily declining/leaving since before many of us were born.  The reasons for that were a century in the making and reflect worldwide changes in business.  Everything else happening to Detroit is details & effects of that basic cause.  

---------------------


Try looking at a mining town when the local mine quickly runs dry.  No political party or police force is going to keep that place successful & friendly for very long after that happens.

[Dino]

We've been waiting for it.  It is very very sad to drive through the city and see what has become of it.  You can still imagine how it once was, there's some beautiful architecture in Detroit, sadly much of it in disrepair.  Downtown is very nice but don't stray too far outside.

I hope they can save what is left of the city.  There were plans to knock down all the vacant buidlings and start farming again, maybe that is back in on the option list now.  Crime will never be controlled, not unless they finally clean up the gangs.  Too bad they're the ones that run the place.

[Old Moparz]

There are a lot of cities in similar financial trouble so this will be watched closely for many reasons, including the political ones. Anyone close to retirement that has a pension in Detroit may be ready to s**t a brick thinking about how sweet that "10 cents on the dollar" retirement package is going to be. Instead, they will be forced to work until they die broke. Say & think what you want, but the anti union/worker crowds are absolutely drooling over this as another way to completely bust up a union & screw over more people.

[Indygenerallee]

Sponsored by NAFTA!! We are all headed down this road unfortunately too many jobs have been outsourced to other countries.

[DC_1]

Sponsored by NAFTA!! We are all headed down this road unfortunately too many jobs have been outsourced to other countries.

It isn't NAFTA that caused this problem. If you think all the jobs that were in Detroit disappeared to México or Canada (which are the only other NAFTA participants) you are a little misinformed. Detroit has had a max exodus of jobs not only to low wage Asian counties but also to low wage southern US states. It all contributed to the situation they find themselves in....... Continuing services and running a city on revenue that is not there and will never be there for the foreseeable future is the problem. High crime is just the added bonus. Even if the murder rate of 354 per year drop to 0 it won't bring jobs and revenue to the city. Unlike the Auto companies bankruptcy, were after washing away most of their debt all they had to do is sell more cars to be profitable and viable again. What does Detroit do in the short term to generate the funds it needs to exist and grow?

No quick fix here even after bankruptcy I'm afraid.....

[Ghoste]

Not to mention the NAFTA jobs in Canada existed for decades, there were none that moved to Canada from the US because of the agreeement.  Jobs from both countries went to Mexico but as far as the Canadian part of it, all it did was make it easier for the two nations to trade.  They should have had a Canada Us trade agreement but without the Mexican job desperation it would have defeated the purpose I guess.

[Mike DC]

 
The industry & jobs came to Detroit in the first place because they were outsourcing away from the more expensive population centers where cars were selling big.  Everybody loves the principle on the way up, but hates it on the way down. 


Once China & India's populations start getting a better standard of living, industries will probably outsource again to someplace like Africa. 

[Troy]

 
The industry & jobs came to Detroit in the first place because they were outsourcing away from the more expensive population centers where cars were selling big.  Everybody loves the principle on the way up, but hates it on the way down. 


Once China & India's populations start getting a better standard of living, industries will probably outsource again to someplace like Africa. 

One of the IT companies I've worked with in the past outsourced to India, who outsourced the job to China, who outsourced it to Brazil. Yep, as soon as Africa has consistent electricity they'll be on the list!

Troy

[Old Moparz]

A judge just declared the bankruptcy filing to be unconstitutional.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/19/us-usa-detroit-ruling-idUSBRE96I11220130719

Michigan Judge Orders Withdrawal of Detroit Bankruptcy Petition

DETROIT | Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:21pm EDT

(Reuters) - A Michigan judge on Friday ordered Detroit's state-appointed emergency manager to withdraw the federal bankruptcy petition he filed for the city on Thursday.

Ingham County Circuit Court Judge Rosemarie Aquilina's order said the 2012 Michigan law that allowed Governor Rick Snyder to approve the city's bankruptcy filing, the largest municipal bankruptcy filing ever in the United States, violated the Michigan Constitution.

The declaratory judgment came in lawsuits filed this month by Detroit pension funds, retirees and workers, which sought to prevent a bankruptcy filing that would ultimately impair retirement benefits in violation of constitutional protections for those benefits.

[Budnicks]

Years of corrupt politicians, max exodus of the tax base, no inner-city jobs and out of control crime can't go on forever. 

Bingo

[Budnicks]

A judge just declared the bankruptcy filing to be unconstitutional.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/19/us-usa-detroit-ruling-idUSBRE96I11220130719

Michigan Judge Orders Withdrawal of Detroit Bankruptcy Petition

DETROIT | Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:21pm EDT

(Reuters) - A Michigan judge on Friday ordered Detroit's state-appointed emergency manager to withdraw the federal bankruptcy petition he filed for the city on Thursday.

Ingham County Circuit Court Judge Rosemarie Aquilina's order said the 2012 Michigan law that allowed Governor Rick Snyder to approve the city's bankruptcy filing, the largest municipal bankruptcy filing ever in the United States, violated the Michigan Constitution.

The declaratory judgment came in lawsuits filed this month by Detroit pension funds, retirees and workers, which sought to prevent a bankruptcy filing that would ultimately impair retirement benefits in violation of constitutional protections for those benefits.

I just read the same thing too... too bad they are so damn messed up in Detroit, a once proud thriving & growing Metropolitan & Automotive Manufacturing town/city, Gangs, Crime, corrupt Politicians in the Unions pockets, overreaching Pulbic Sector Union pensions, that can never be sustained for any period of time, high taxes, crumbling infrastructures, downward spiraling housing & good old greed, will do it every time....

[DC_1]

A judge just declared the bankruptcy filing to be unconstitutional.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/19/us-usa-detroit-ruling-idUSBRE96I11220130719

Michigan Judge Orders Withdrawal of Detroit Bankruptcy Petition

DETROIT | Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:21pm EDT

(Reuters) - A Michigan judge on Friday ordered Detroit's state-appointed emergency manager to withdraw the federal bankruptcy petition he filed for the city on Thursday.

Ingham County Circuit Court Judge Rosemarie Aquilina's order said the 2012 Michigan law that allowed Governor Rick Snyder to approve the city's bankruptcy filing, the largest municipal bankruptcy filing ever in the United States, violated the Michigan Constitution.

The declaratory judgment came in lawsuits filed this month by Detroit pension funds, retirees and workers, which sought to prevent a bankruptcy filing that would ultimately impair retirement benefits in violation of constitutional protections for those benefits.

Its only day one and its getting good already....


Michigan AG is pulling the rug from under this judges ruling


http://www.freep.com/article/20130719/NEWS06/307190075/

[mauve66]

good ol' pensioners giving up $ .90 on the dollar but the corporate giants only giving up $ .25, yeah, that will work for the long run when the pensioners can't afford to buy anything from the giants

[Tilar]

Gee imagine that. Detroit has been ran by unions and liberals for such a long time. I guess they finally ran out of everybody elses money.

[Budnicks]

Gee imagine that. Detroit has been ran by unions and liberals for such a long time. I guess they finally ran out of everybody elses money.

Bingo we have a winner 

[Paul G]

Say & think what you want, but the anti union/worker crowds are absolutely drooling over this as another way to completely bust up a union & screw over more people.

The unions have to take some responsibility for the decay and final demise. I was a union member for 31 years, USWA local 1010, in private industry. We had to give back benefits and take lower wages several times over the years to keep our company alive. Ever hear of a public workers union doing that? As the city got smaller I would doubt the public workers downsized. They never do. My pension is just a fraction of what a public workers pension is. At least mine is solvent, for now.

I just hope "we the people" don't have to pick up the tab for Detroit's mistakes. Nothing would piss me off more than knowing that my tax dollars are going to support some loaf on a state pension, who's pension is better than mine in the first place. Only difference is mine is a legitimate amount and his/hers is an overinflated govmnt deal.

[NHCharger]

Some interesting numbers:


"But let's look at the facts of whether too much government was to blame. As Kevin Williamson said from National Review economics blogger,

     Detroit today employs one city worker for every 55 residents, as opposed to one city worker for every 109 residents in Charlotte, which is just barely bigger than Detroit  and one city worker for every 101 residents in El Paso, which is one spot down from Detroit on the population rankings.

Detroit over the last several decades has been a hotspot for deceit and corruption, and even as such, one of the biggest issues is their pension program. Kevin Williamson continued on to say,

    Detroit maintains 13,000 government workers but has 22,000 government retirees burrowed into the body politic, and their health-care subsidies alone account for nearly $200 million of the city's budget. Pensions alone already account for a quarter of city spending; in three years, they will account for half. Pensions and city workers' health-care subsidies account for $561 per year from every resident of Detroit, which has a very poor population — average monthly income of barely $1,200 before taxes, a fifth of the population in poverty, etc. The official unemployment rate is 30 percent; the real rate is much higher."

[Tilar]

Some interesting numbers:

   Detroit maintains 13,000 government workers but has 22,000 government retirees burrowed into the body politic, and their health-care subsidies alone account for nearly $200 million of the city's budget. Pensions alone already account for a quarter of city spending; in three years, they will account for half. Pensions and city workers' health-care subsidies account for $561 per year from every resident of Detroit, which has a very poor population — average monthly income of barely $1,200 before taxes, a fifth of the population in poverty, etc. The official unemployment rate is 30 percent; the real rate is much higher."

That must make it about 3 to 4 times the national rate, maybe a bit higher. I think the actual unemployment rate across America was 13% or so the last I heard anything, and that has been maybe two months ago.  The gooberment is trying to keep actual numbers quiet so it's really hard to tell what they really are.

[AKcharger]

I thought I saw somewhere a company that does tours of run-down Detroit...Kinda like a "Squalor tour" I'd pay to go on it, though would feel more comfortable if it was in an Armored personnel carrier

[Mike DC]

         
It's no surprise the Detroit govt is overpopulated with workers.  The city population has been dropping like a stone for years.  Govts aren't known for retracting fast enough once it's time to retract.  (Did US military spending go back to pre-Cold-War levels once Communism fell?)

[Tilar]

Its only day one and its getting good already....


Michigan AG is pulling the rug from under this judges ruling


http://www.freep.com/article/20130719/NEWS06/307190075/

I just went back and read that article and it makes you think that our country would be a hell of a lot better off if we just outlaw lawyers.

[Dino]

Its only day one and its getting good already....


Michigan AG is pulling the rug from under this judges ruling


http://www.freep.com/article/20130719/NEWS06/307190075/

I just went back and read that article and it makes you think that our country would be a hell of a lot better off if we just outlaw lawyers.

Well you know what they say Tilar.  What do you call 200 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?  A good start.   

[Mytur Binsdirti]

From last October.................

http://washingtonexaminer.com/flashback-obama-2012-we-refused-to-let-detroit-go-bankrupt/article/2533249

[ACUDANUT]

I thought the UAW wages at 50.00 plus a hour would have helped Detroit out more ?

[Tilar]

I just went back and read that article and it makes you think that our country would be a hell of a lot better off if we just outlaw lawyers.

Well you know what they say Tilar.  What do you call 200 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?  A good start.   

Yeah  I was at a meeting this morning and our corporate lawyer asked what the difference is between a dead cat in the middle of the road and a dead lawyer in the middle of the road, There are skid marks right before you get to the cat.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Q: What's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?

A: One is a bottom dwelling scum sucker and the other is a catfish. 

[Budnicks]

I just went back and read that article and it makes you think that our country would be a hell of a lot better off if we just outlaw lawyers.

Well you know what they say Tilar.  What do you call 200 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?  A good start.   

Yeah  I was at a meeting this morning and our corporate lawyer asked what the difference is between a dead cat in the middle of the road and a dead lawyer in the middle of the road, There are skid marks right before you get to the cat.

I like that one...

[Budnicks]

Some interesting numbers:

   Detroit maintains 13,000 government workers but has 22,000 government retirees burrowed into the body politic, and their health-care subsidies alone account for nearly $200 million of the city's budget. Pensions alone already account for a quarter of city spending; in three years, they will account for half. Pensions and city workers' health-care subsidies account for $561 per year from every resident of Detroit, which has a very poor population — average monthly income of barely $1,200 before taxes, a fifth of the population in poverty, etc. The official unemployment rate is 30 percent; the real rate is much higher."

That must make it about 3 to 4 times the national rate, maybe a bit higher. I think the actual unemployment rate across America was 13% or so the last I heard anything, and that has been maybe two months ago.  The gooberment is trying to keep actual numbers quiet so it's really hard to tell what they really are.

yeah it's way more than the lame 7% they are all claiming it is, I'd estimate at-least double that...

[Tilar]

Oh absolutely. The "obama phone" only goes out to those on welfare and there are well over 13 million of those out there which equates to roughly 5% of our country has a free phone. I can assure you those people are not working, add that to all the good honest people out there that really are out of work, I'm betting actual is somewhere in the 14 to 17% range.

[Mike DC]

Oh absolutely. The "obama phone" only goes out to those on welfare and there are well over 13 million of those out there which equates to roughly 5% of our country has a free phone.

The welfare phone program thing is strange.  I'm surprised the program exists. 

Although it does occur to me that going without a cell phone is not as easy as it used to be.  Try finding a public pay phone when you need one today - even in a car, in a commercial/retail area, with an hour or more to search, you are pretty unlikely to find one.  I know because I've had to do it a few times in the last few years.  And the fact is that it's getting harder & harder to hold a job when it is difficult to get in touch with people, even for burger-flipping jobs.  The program is supposed to be for those on welfare but there is plenty of blurring the lines between employed & unemployed at that level.   

The land-line rates are also surprisingly high compared to cells anymore.  I was in college a bunch of years ago and it was already cheaper to get a cell phone than pay what they were charging us for land lines in the dorms.  I haven't even tried to buy a land-line for my apartment in a long time. 

"Free govt cell phones for those on welfare" sounds pretty ridiculous off the cuff because we are still conditioned to think of cell phones as a luxury. But if the program was "free govt land lines because phone booths are extinct" it would not sound nearly so absurd. And cells are only expensive in the USA because the corporate world knows they can get it.  The rates in many other places like Europe are much lower. 

Cell phones are trickling down to practically the planet over time.  The technology has penetrated farther into the world that things like automobiles.



I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the program.  Just commenting on it.

I would just like to see the govt pay for some public (pay) phone booths to remain in existence.  They don't need to be common but it would be nice if there were a few.  They could do that and give welfare recipients a free phone card for a certain number of minutes, for example. 

[Ghoste]

Were land lines provided free of charge to those on welfare?

[Tilar]

"Free govt cell phones for those on welfare" sounds pretty ridiculous off the cuff because we are still conditioned to think of cell phones as a luxury.

I would just like to see the govt pay for some public (pay) phone booths to remain in existence.  They don't need to be common but it would be nice if there were a few.  They could do that and give welfare recipients a free phone card for a certain number of minutes, for example.  

The "Free" part is what pisses me off because my 4 hour a day part time job pays more on all this "Free" crap than the lazy bastards that get the phones do. I do agree that it is hard to do anything without them due to a lack of phone booths.

But if the program was "free govt land lines because phone booths are extinct" it would not sound nearly so absurd.

Yeah it would. I guess I've fended for myself for so long that I hate that others just "ride the system", and to top the whole thing off I have a sister that has done it her whole life... to me she's a lazy ass too.   The one time I did ask for any help it was from an organization that I had actually donated money to for years (P.A.T.H.) and they basically told me my skin color lacked "color" and turned me down.    

[NHCharger]

I thought the UAW wages at 30 plus a hour would have helped Detroit out more ?

If you read that article is says the average monthly income is $1,200 a month, before taxes. Doesn't sound like many UAW workers live in Detroit.
Of course a judge has stuck her nose into this, claiming the bankruptcy filing was illegal. This is going to be long and messy and in the end the US taxpayer will end up paying for this.

[Ghoste]

The UAW wages?  How could they help when everyone is buying foreign cars?  Oh wait, it doesn't affect the American worker if we buy Asian cars because they are nearly all made here now and the domestics use parts and plants from other countries.
I guess it might also be worth pointing out that Detroit itself is not really a large city and most of the auto plants are in the metro area and those cities aren't the ones declaring bankruptcy.
I'm as guilty as anyone but we too often tend to think of Detroit as everything from the Ren Cen out to Pontiac and then Monroe to Algonac.
We do the same to Toronto and New York and LA and on and on.

[bull]

I can understand the anti-union rhetoric for the most part but the one critique I can never wrap my head around is pension infrastructures that are arranged via contract; negotiated and agreed to by both parties. It's not as if the unions can take anything they weren't promised to begin with. If the wage payers cannot afford to pay, or are not smart enough to create a solvent retirement fund, they shouldn't be making promises to fund the retirements.

[Paul G]

I can understand the anti-union rhetoric for the most part but the one critique I can never wrap my head around is pension infrastructures that are arranged via contract; negotiated and agreed to by both parties. It's not as if the unions can take anything they weren't promised to begin with. If the wage payers cannot afford to pay, or are not smart enough to create a solvent retirement fund, they shouldn't be making promises to fund the retirements.

Promises for votes. It is that simple. The unions fund a particular political party, that party wins, the party then channels funds back to the union. Each go round they all get a little skim ($$) off the till. And around it goes. It is a very corrupt system although it has been working out for them for a long time. Keep taking from the tax payers until there is no one left to pay taxes anymore. We are starting to see the end of the line with so many cities finally giving up and saying we just cant play the game anymore. California is another one who is not far behind, then New York and so on. It is only a matter of time.

When private corporations find themselves bankrupt all the money stops flowing. The poor retirees loose there pensions, the poor guys working each day hoping to get his pension some day looses it. It sucks. I know people who have lost there pensions when the company they worked for went belly up, it happens. Detroit is going to become political, and I would not be surprised if the feds don't bail out the city and fund the exorbitant pensions they pay out. Just remember who the feds get there money from....... you and me. 

[BB1]

Don't even need words.

[Budnicks]

The UAW wages?  How could they help when everyone is buying foreign cars?  Oh wait, it doesn't affect the American worker if we buy Asian cars because they are nearly all made here now and the domestics use parts and plants from other countries.
I guess it might also be worth pointing out that Detroit itself is not really a large city and most of the auto plants are in the metro area and those cities aren't the ones declaring bankruptcy.
I'm as guilty as anyone but we too often tend to think of Detroit as everything from the Ren Cen out to Pontiac and then Monroe to Algonac.
We do the same to Toronto and New York and LA and on and on.

[AKcharger]

[Old Moparz]

The Obama Phone - Free Cell Phones for Welfare Recipients     


Funny, it was started in 1985 when Reagan was in office.

http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline

[bull]

The Obama Phone - Free Cell Phones for Welfare Recipients     


Funny, it was started in 1985 when Reagan was in office.

http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline

The rampant abuse is recent however: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZUIDQ6TYU

[Budnicks]

I can understand the anti-union rhetoric for the most part but the one critique I can never wrap my head around is pension infrastructures that are arranged via contract; negotiated and agreed to by both parties. It's not as if the unions can take anything they weren't promised to begin with. If the wage payers cannot afford to pay, or are not smart enough to create a solvent retirement fund, they shouldn't be making promises to fund the retirements.

Promises for votes. It is that simple. The unions fund a particular political party, that party wins, the party then channels funds back to the union. Each go round they all get a little skim ($$) off the till. And around it goes. It is a very corrupt system although it has been working out for them for a long time. Keep taking from the tax payers until there is no one left to pay taxes anymore. We are starting to see the end of the line with so many cities finally giving up and saying we just cant play the game anymore. California is another one who is not far behind, then New York and so on. It is only a matter of time.

When private corporations find themselves bankrupt all the money stops flowing. The poor retirees loose there pensions, the poor guys working each day hoping to get his pension some day looses it. It sucks. I know people who have lost there pensions when the company they worked for went belly up, it happens. Detroit is going to become political, and I would not be surprised if the feds don't bail out the city and fund the exorbitant pensions they pay out. Just remember who the feds get there money from....... you and me. 

 

[mauve66]

my wife works at the welfare office and people are always coming in asking for their free phone, her office doesn't do that part of it, then they go outside and start talking on THEIR PERSONAL phone......................

[Tilar]

Here, maybe this will help answer that situation...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZUIDQ6TYU

[Old Moparz]

A youtube video posted by someone with a history of highly deceptive videos that are edited for one point of view with a one sided agenda doesn't convince me of anything. Are there people cheating the system? Of course there are. Are all poor people out to get free cell phones so they can sell them for drugs & designer bags? Of course they are.  

The ACORN story was all over the "trustworthy" news but not once did they mention that the employee had called the police.  


James O'Keefe Pays $100,000 To ACORN Employee He Smeared  
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/03/08/james-okeefe-pays-100000-to-acorn-employee-he-smeared-conservative-media-yawns/


Remember James O'Keefe?

That would be the same James O'Keefe who brought down community organizing and voter registration organization ACORN in his march to becoming a conservative icon for his alleged 'good works'.

Matthew Phelan and Liz Farkas over at Wonkette have broken the story about the first bit of blowback resulting from O'Keefe's brand of 'journalism'.

It seems that the master of the cleverly edited—if highly deceptive—video reel is now being required to pay the sum of $100,000 to Juan Carlos Vera, a one time California employee of ACORN. Mr. Vera had been portrayed by O'Keefe as being a willing participant when O'Keefe and his accomplice, Hanna Giles, proposed smuggling young women into the United States to work as prostitutes.

While Mr. Vera had no idea he was being surreptitiously video taped—which is not surprising given that California law expressly bars the secret recording of one's voice or image—there was also something Mr. O'Keefe did not know until after he released the damaging video of his conversation with Vera for broadcast.

As soon as O'Keefe and his partner-in-crime left the ACORN location, Mr. Vera called the police to report the entire incident. It turns out that Vera had been playing along with O'Keefe in an effort to ensnare O'Keefe and Giles whom Vera believed were in the act of breaking the law by proposing to engage in the importing of young women to become prostitutes.

Oops.

As part of the settlement, Mr. O'Keefe was required to say that he "regrets any pain" he caused Mr. Vera—although I have some doubts as to whether O'Keefe has been losing any sleep over his illegal behavior and the harm he did to Mr. Vera.

Why might I feel that way?

Because Mr. O'Keefe's lawyer—Los Angeles attorney Michael Madigan—wasted no time in characterizing the $100,000 payment as a "nuisance settlement."  Apparently, when releasing videos smearing an innocent man by suggesting he is willing to participate in the flesh trade turns out to do that individual serious damage, it counts as nothing more than a nuisance to Mr. O'Keefe and his attorney.

A report issued by the California Attorney General in 2010 revealed that O'Keefe and Giles were given immunity from prosecution (a serious mistake in my opinion) in exchange for turning over the complete and unedited tapes that O'Keefe shot in Los Angeles, San Francisco and National City where O'Keefe worked his magic on Juan Carlos Vera.

The AG's report highlighted how Mr. O'Keefe edited his videos to appear as if he was engaging in his ACORN hi-jinks wearing "stereotypical 1970's pimp garb", the intent being to suggest that ACORN employees would willingly do business with someone dressed in this manner. However, it turns out that O'Keefe was actually wearing a coat and tie when he entered the ACORN offices. The report also stated that ACORN employees "may be able to bring a private suit against O'Keefe and Giles for recording a confidential conversation."

Here's hoping that Mr. Vera is but the first of many to take advantage of the opportunity to bring such a legal action.

Oddly, a Google scan revealed no coverage of the settlement in Breitbart.com or any of the other conservative media who so enjoyed Mr. O'Keefe's exploits.

Go figure.

[AKcharger]

The best thing about Detroit is you never have to go to the dump...the dump comes to you!

[young99]

not sure if this was posted but related

http://www.ebay.com/itm/City-of-Detroit-/130951248586?nma=true&si=4lLSEpamigEvcx%252BUpk3GzwKj2II%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Old Moparz]

not sure if this was posted but related

http://www.ebay.com/itm/City-of-Detroit-/130951248586?nma=true&si=4lLSEpamigEvcx%252BUpk3GzwKj2II%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Tilar]

not sure if this was posted but related

http://www.ebay.com/itm/City-of-Detroit-/130951248586?nma=true&si=4lLSEpamigEvcx%252BUpk3GzwKj2II%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I think starting bid is just a little high.  

[AKcharger]

Love it! someone needs to save it before it's pulled! 

[bull]

A youtube video posted by someone with a history of highly deceptive videos that are edited for one point of view with a one sided agenda doesn't convince me of anything.

How did CNN and the big three networks get into this discussion?

[Mike DC]

                         
                         

[Tilar]

A youtube video posted by someone with a history of highly deceptive videos that are edited for one point of view with a one sided agenda doesn't convince me of anything.

How did CNN and the big three networks get into this discussion?

Surely CNN wouldn't be engaging in deceptive videos... Would they? 

[Old Moparz]

A youtube video posted by someone with a history of highly deceptive videos that are edited for one point of view with a one sided agenda doesn't convince me of anything.

How did CNN and the big three networks get into this discussion?

When you posted a link to a youtube video that was created by someone with with a history of "creating" videos.

(You opened the floodgates....LOL)

[Budnicks]

not sure if this was posted but related

http://www.ebay.com/itm/City-of-Detroit-/130951248586?nma=true&si=4lLSEpamigEvcx%252BUpk3GzwKj2II%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

   

[2Gunz]

Some interesting numbers:


"But let's look at the facts of whether too much government was to blame. As Kevin Williamson said from National Review economics blogger,

     Detroit today employs one city worker for every 55 residents, as opposed to one city worker for every 109 residents in Charlotte, which is just barely bigger than Detroit  and one city worker for every 101 residents in El Paso, which is one spot down from Detroit on the population rankings.

Detroit over the last several decades has been a hotspot for deceit and corruption, and even as such, one of the biggest issues is their pension program. Kevin Williamson continued on to say,

    Detroit maintains 13,000 government workers but has 22,000 government retirees burrowed into the body politic, and their health-care subsidies alone account for nearly $200 million of the city's budget. Pensions alone already account for a quarter of city spending; in three years, they will account for half. Pensions and city workers' health-care subsidies account for $561 per year from every resident of Detroit, which has a very poor population — average monthly income of barely $1,200 before taxes, a fifth of the population in poverty, etc. The official unemployment rate is 30 percent; the real rate is much higher."

While interesting to read its very short sited and like comparing apples to oranges.

Detroit is a small city population wise now. However it used to be a city with 1.8 million people.
Trash, water, power, roads, police, fire and on and on, still need to me maintained over a sprawling city.

So until the land mass and infrastructure of Detroit magically shrink to the size of it current population..... the above article is pointless. 

[RECHRGD]

Some interesting numbers:


"But let's look at the facts of whether too much government was to blame. As Kevin Williamson said from National Review economics blogger,

     Detroit today employs one city worker for every 55 residents, as opposed to one city worker for every 109 residents in Charlotte, which is just barely bigger than Detroit  and one city worker for every 101 residents in El Paso, which is one spot down from Detroit on the population rankings.

Detroit over the last several decades has been a hotspot for deceit and corruption, and even as such, one of the biggest issues is their pension program. Kevin Williamson continued on to say,

    Detroit maintains 13,000 government workers but has 22,000 government retirees burrowed into the body politic, and their health-care subsidies alone account for nearly $200 million of the city's budget. Pensions alone already account for a quarter of city spending; in three years, they will account for half. Pensions and city workers' health-care subsidies account for $561 per year from every resident of Detroit, which has a very poor population — average monthly income of barely $1,200 before taxes, a fifth of the population in poverty, etc. The official unemployment rate is 30 percent; the real rate is much higher."

While interesting to read its very short sited and like comparing apples to oranges.

Detroit is a small city population wise now. However it used to be a city with 1.8 million people.
Trash, water, power, roads, police, fire and on and on, still need to me maintained over a sprawling city.

So until the land mass and infrastructure of Detroit magically shrink to the size of it current population..... the above article is pointless. 

Valid point, but from the pictures that I have seen, things aren't being maintained at a very high level.  It would be interesting to know what the ratio was before the city's meltdown.....

[Mike DC]

While interesting to read its very short sited and like comparing apples to oranges.

Detroit is a small city population wise now. However it used to be a city with 1.8 million people.
Trash, water, power, roads, police, fire and on and on, still need to me maintained over a sprawling city.

So until the land mass and infrastructure of Detroit magically shrink to the size of it current population..... the above article is pointless.  

There you go again, spoiling a good political rant with some annoying balanced truth.

[Paul G]

It is odd that a buddy of mine, who is originally from Detroit, sends me this email today. It fits perfectly with this thread. There are many pictures of a once beautiful city now in full decay. Pics wont copy over to this forum 



This is truly  a must read and a big eye opener to say the least and to pass  on.

 
     
    Coming  soon to a city near you.

(Frosty  Wooldridge (born 1947) is a US journalist, writer,  environmentalist, traveler)

DETROIT
By  Frosty Wooldridge
For 15 years, from the mid 1970's to 1990,  I worked in Detroit  , Michigan  . I watched it descend into the abyss of crime, debauchery,  gunplay, drugs, school truancy, car-jacking, gangs and human  depravity. I watched entire city blocks burned out. I watched  graffiti explode on buildings, cars, trucks, buses and school  yards. Trash everywhere!

Detroiters  walked through it, tossed more into it, and ignored it. Tens of  thousands, and then hundreds of thousands today exist on federal  welfare, free housing, and food stamps!

With Aid to  Dependent Children, minority women birthed  eight  to 10,  and in one case, one woman birthed 24 children as reported by  the Detroit  Free Press, all on American taxpayer  dollars.

A  new child meant a new car payment, new TV, and whatever mom  wanted. I saw Lyndon Baines Johnson's 'Great Society' flourish  in Detroit  . If you give money for doing nothing, you will get more hands  out taking money for doing nothing.

Mayor Coleman Young,  perhaps the most corrupt mayor in America  , outside of Richard Daley in Chicago  , rode Detroit  down to its knees... He set the benchmark for cronyism,  incompetence, and arrogance. As a black man, he said, "I am the  MFIC." The IC meant "in charge". You can figure out the rest. 

Detroit  became a majority black city with 67 percent  African-Americans.

As a United Van Lines truck driver for  my summer job from teaching math and science, I loaded hundreds  of American families into my van for a new life in another city  or state.

Detroit  plummeted from 1.8 million citizens to 912,000 today. At the  same time, legal and illegal immigrants converged on the city  for the free government handouts, so much so, that Muslims  number over 300,000. Mexicans number 400,000 throughout  Michigan, but most work in Detroit  . As the whites moved out, the Muslims moved  in.

As  the crimes became more violent, the whites fled. Finally,  unlawful Mexicans moved in at a torrid pace.  Detroit  suffers so much shoplifting that grocery stores no longer  operate in many inner city locations. You could cut the racial  tension in the air with a knife! Detroit may be one of our best  examples of multiculturalism: pure dislike, and total separation  from America  ..

Today, you hear Muslim calls to worship over the city  like a new American Baghdad  with hundreds of Islamic mosques in Michigan  , paid for by Saudi Arabian oil money. High school flunk-out  rates reached 76 percent last June, according to NBC's Brian  Williams. Classrooms resemble more foreign countries than  America  .. English? Few speak it! The city features a 50 percent  illiteracy rate and growing.

Unemployment  hit 28.9 percent in 2009 as the auto industry vacated the city.  In Time  Magazine on October  4, 2009,  "The Tragedy of Detroit  : How a great city fell, and how it can rise again," I choked on  the writer's description of what happened. "If  Detroit  had been ravaged by a hurricane, and submerged by a ravenous  flood, we'd know a lot more about it," said Daniel Okrent. "If  drought and carelessness had spread brush fires across the city,  we'd see it on the evening news every night." Earthquake,  tornadoes, you name it, if natural disaster had devastated the  city that was once the living proof of American prosperity, the  rest of the country might take  notice.

But  Detroit  , once our fourth largest city, now 11th and slipping rapidly,  has had no such luck. Its disaster has long been a slow  unwinding that seemed to remove it from the rest of the  country.

Even the death rattle that in the past year  emanated from its signature industry brought more attention to  the auto executives than to the people of the city, who had for  so long been victimized by their dreadful decision  making."

As  Coleman Young's corruption brought the city to its knees, no  amount of federal dollars could save the incredible payoffs,  kickbacks and illegality permeating his administration. I  witnessed the city's death from the seat of my 18-wheeler  tractor trailer because I moved people out of every sector of  decaying Detroit  .

"By any quantifiable standard, the city is on life  support. Detroit  's treasury is $300 million short of the funds needed to provide  the barest municipal services," Okrent said. "The school system,  which six years ago was compelled by the teachers' union to  reject a philanthropist's offer of $200 million to build 15  small, independent charter high schools, is in receivership. The  murder rate is soaring, and 7 out of 10 remain unsolved. Three  years after Katrina devastated New  Orleans  , unemployment in that city hit a peak of 11%. In  Detroit  today, the unemployment rate is 28.9%. That's worth spelling  out: twenty-eight point nine percent.

At  the end of Okrent's report, and he will write a dozen more about  Detroit, he said, "That's because the story of Detroit is not  simply one of a great city's collapse, it's also about the  erosion of the industries that helped build the country we know  today. The ultimate fate of Detroit  will reveal much about the character of  America  in the 21st century.

If what was once the most prosperous  manufacturing city in the nation has been brought to its knees,  what does that say about our recent past? And if it can't find a  way to get up, what does that say about America  ï¿∏s  future?"

As  you read in my book review of Chris Steiner's book,"$20 Per  Gallon", the auto industry won't come back. Immigration will  keep pouring more and more uneducated third world immigrants  from the Middle  East  into Detroit  , thus creating a beachhead for Islamic hegemony in  America  . If 50 percent illiteracy continues, we will see more  home-grown terrorists spawned out of the Muslim ghettos of  Detroit  . Illiteracy plus Islam equals walking human  bombs.

You  have already seen it in Madrid  , Spain  , London  , England  , and Paris  , France  with train bombings, subway bombings and riots. As their numbers  grow, so will their power to enact their barbaric Sharia Law  that negates republican forms of government, first amendment  rights, and subjugates women to the lowest rungs on the human  ladder. We will see more honor killings by upset husbands,  fathers and brothers that demand subjugation by their daughters,  sisters and wives. Muslims prefer beheadings of women to scare  the hell out of any other members of their sect from straying.  Multiculturalism: what a perfect method to kill our language,  culture, country and way of life.

I  PRAY EVERYONE WHO READS THIS REALIZES THAT IF WE DON'T STAND UP  AND SCREAM AT WASHINGTON  , AND OUR STATE, CITY AND LOCAL LEADERS, THIS IS WHAT AWAITS THE  REST OF AMERICA  . IF YOU THINK MEXICANS AND MUSLIMS AND OTHER FORIEGNERS WILL  EVENTUALLY FIT RIGHT IN THEN YOU ARE AS BIG A PART OF THE  PROBLEM AS THEY ARE.

IF YOU THINK THIS IS JUST A BUNCH OF  HOOEY AND YOU FEEL NO DUTY TO FIGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY, THEN I'M  SORRY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO STAND AND FIGHT  ?

IF  YOU LOVE AMERICA  , PLEASE PASS THIS ALONGï¿∏..

 

[RECHRGD]

Paul, a lot of truth there.  But agreeing with it will only label you as a racist right wing extremist.  Just feel the love, OK........

[Old Moparz]

Just another "Pass-It-On-If-You-Are-Truly-An-American" chain letter that substitutes the city of Detroit as the origin.   

[AKcharger]

I like the black fist...besides celebrating some boxer who won a fight back in 1936, it's a symbol of racial unity!  

[bull]

While interesting to read its very short sited and like comparing apples to oranges.

Detroit is a small city population wise now. However it used to be a city with 1.8 million people.
Trash, water, power, roads, police, fire and on and on, still need to me maintained over a sprawling city.

So until the land mass and infrastructure of Detroit magically shrink to the size of it current population..... the above article is pointless. 

It used to be an apple but years of political stupidity turned it into an orange.

Regarding the said racism, the race card is one of the things that continues to stifle any honest discussion on the issues we face. The Zimmerman trial is a good example. There are some on one side who believe the black man can do no wrong. Even if he breaks the law he is justified in breaking it. On the other side there are those who believe they are the cause of much of our nation's grief, ther breakdown of the family, crime, drugs, etc. Until the criminal element of any race is scrutinized from within by enough people they will not listen and work toward improving their situation. Racism, sexism, ageism, whatever-ism, is not nearly as rampant as the people who use it to stay in power want us to believe it is.