A little baffled by the grill situation

[Ghoste]

I can only speak for myself but for me it would be the fact that I knew. I know it's stupid but it would really bother me.

[bull]

I can only speak for myself but for me it would be the fact that I knew. I know it's stupid but it would really bother me.

It would me too. From a business standpoint I would think you'd be better off doing them as original so as not to lose sales from those who want it to look like OE. The percentage of those who wouldn't care is probably too small and the concourse crowd has all the money.

[Mike DC]

I understand the issue that some people care about originality even in ways you can't see.  I would care too on a certain type of resto.  

But I find it crazy that so many people care that we can't get decent functional parts made.  These grilles have been needed for decades.  Why is it okay to give a car a modern disc brake conversion and exhaust headers, but a few extra bolts on the backside of the grille is a faux pas?  IMHO the emphasis on originality is not wrong, just misplaced sometimes. 

[Ghoste]

I'm not a huge fan of the modern disc brake conversions either.   I do like headers though so don't ask me how to explain that.  For me, the real question is still, if they can make a Cuda grille accurately, why not a Charger one?

[JB400]

I think the question is more like, why haven't they made one for the chargers?  I'm pretty sure they can make one.

[hatersaurusrex]

I'm not going to bitch about this but I admit I don't understand something about reproduction grills. Why is it there are more than a dozen reproduction Mopar grills on the market right now but one of the most popular Mopars ever, actually, one of the most popular cars ever, cannot get even a center grill reproduction in any year? The center section of a 68, 69 or 70 is no more convoluted to reproduce than a 70 or 71 Cuda, or any of the other grills offered and yet not a single piece of a 2nd gen Charger is reproduced. My grill is repaired, painted and installed so it doesn't affect me personally but for those who come behind us I'd sure like to see more options out there than just hours of epoxy work.

http://www.classicindustries.com/mopar/parts/exterior-trim/grill-components/grills/?p=1&sb=0&r=15

I think the answer lies in how you define 'popular'.  If you mean the 2nd gens were popular as in: everyone loves them- then yes.  But if you define popularity in as in: there were very high production numbers - then no.  And that's where the money is going to be.    Most of what gets repopped in volume are items that wear or rust, so the demand is probably much much higher.

Add in the fact that it's a difficult part to repro accurately, which means small batches, high prices, and bitching, and it'd be hard for anyone to take that on and hope to even recoup their money.   The Charger crowd appears to be full of people who want their cars to be cool and exclusive but all parts to cost the same as Camaro parts do - or they're willing to wait another 5 years till they get an OEM one at a swap meet for four dollars.   Lots of 'unreality' here.

[bull]

How do the production numbers of, say, the '69 Charger compare to the '70 Cuda?

[bull]

I get a total of 55,459 Cudas in 1970 and whatever the graph below says for 69 Charger production. Granted, the numbers seem to be all over the place depending on the source but I don't think there were more Cudas than 69 Chargers. And if there were more I doubt there was a huge differential.

[Mike DC]

I think a lot of the cost lies in the nature of the molds it needs.     

[Cooter]

The Charger Grille has to do things like MOVE. Separate parts that have to work/do things. The Cuda grille just has to bolt up and sit there.

Plus, there are fans of E-bodies. How many years was it Cuda/Challenger quarters were available LONG BEFORE Charger panels. E-bodies attract business because they are popular.

[Ghoste]

All true, but everytime one of the car magazines has a list of "most popular" or "most collectible" or even "most valuable" musclecars what always makes the list?  The 2nd gen Charger, and sometimes it surpasses the E-body on those list since the last price spike happened and all of the investors and wannabees got their Challenger/Cuda itch scratched.
And hey, aren't you GL guys always telling us the General is the most popular car on the planet?

It's time for someone to repop the Charger grille and show some overdue respect dammit.

[bull]

The Charger Grille has to do things like MOVE. Separate parts that have to work/do things. The Cuda grille just has to bolt up and sit there.

Plus, there are fans of E-bodies. How many years was it Cuda/Challenger quarters were available LONG BEFORE Charger panels. E-bodies attract business because they are popular.

The center section doesn't move at all. Neither do the headlight surrounds. These are the parts that break most.

[JB400]

How many restos are being held up due to the lack of a decent grille? 

[Ghoste]

Or at the very least not achieving the quality they deserve?

[bull]

Or at the very least not achieving the quality they deserve?

That has been blamed as being part of the problem - the whole Premier Plastics debacle. But then if it went through the common process of development, marketing, production and retail, where the sellers act as the stop-gap quality control advocates before it goes on sale, we'd all be better off.

[Ghoste]

I didn't want to bring their name to the discussion but I've been thinking about them for the entire thread Bull.  They pissed off a lot of potential customers in the 2nd gen Charger fraternity and I wonder how many possible grille repop places might be scared off because of that (thinking there would be an uphill battle selling them now).

[Cooter]

All true, but everytime one of the car magazines has a list of "most popular" or "most collectible" or even "most valuable" musclecars what always makes the list?  The 2nd gen Charger, and sometimes it surpasses the E-body on those list since the last price spike happened and all of the investors and wannabees got their Challenger/Cuda itch scratched.
And hey, aren't you GL guys always telling us the General is the most popular car on the planet?

It's time for someone to repop the Charger grille and show some overdue respect dammit.

Being the most popular Car because of the General Lee doesn't ness. mean there will be a run on Orange paint, Beige Vinyl, Roll bars, CB's, and Vector Wheels....
Same with the Grilles. Sure, the Charger Grille has been repro'd Where were you guys? PM and BOBFIST did it.
All this about repop grilles and as soon as 'Bobfist' came out with his $1500.00 Center sections,[ actually DID what Premier Plastics couldn't, and did a damn fine job of it] All I saw/heard was Bitching and complaining about the price...

Cuda folks must have had more money than the Charger Folks huh?....

[Ghoste]

I'd pay that price depending on the style of plastic and molding method used but that's a personal decision.

[bull]

All true, but everytime one of the car magazines has a list of "most popular" or "most collectible" or even "most valuable" musclecars what always makes the list?  The 2nd gen Charger, and sometimes it surpasses the E-body on those list since the last price spike happened and all of the investors and wannabees got their Challenger/Cuda itch scratched.
And hey, aren't you GL guys always telling us the General is the most popular car on the planet?

It's time for someone to repop the Charger grille and show some overdue respect dammit.

Being the most popular Car because of the General Lee doesn't ness. mean there will be a run on Orange paint, Beige Vinyl, Roll bars, CB's, and Vector Wheels....
Same with the Grilles. Sure, the Charger Grille has been repro'd Where were you guys? PM and BOBFIST did it.
All this about repop grilles and as soon as 'Bobfist' came out with his $1500.00 Center sections,[ actually DID what Premier Plastics couldn't, and did a damn fine job of it] All I saw/heard was Bitching and complaining about the price...

Cuda folks must have had more money than the Charger Folks huh?....

You can get an entire Cuda grill for quite a bit less than this $1,500 center section. Oh, right, it moves.

[Ghoste]

Agreed, the GL hasn't started a run on orange paint and so on but for every Charger that has been done up as a General, there are a couple thousand not done up as one and they all have the same grille.  My point really had nothing to do with the GL per se but more that the car is popular enough to have a decent reproduction of the grille available.  As for the price, as I said I'll pay the dough for the right one.

[bull]

I defy anyone here to convincingly explain how the new 68 Cuda grill set pictured below is easier to make, less expensive to make or in higher demand than a 68 or 69 Charger center grill section. The two-piece set is listed for $395 on the PG Classic website, roughly $1,000 less than the bobfist grill.

People poo-pooing Ghoste and I and defending the reproduction poo-pooers about this are not helping to improve the situation. They call it DEMAND for a reason. Again, I'm not in this for myself. My grill is done and installed. The lack of reproduction 2nd gen grill parts defies logic and I for one am planning to fix it.

[JB400]

I for one, would love to see more 2nd gen parts being done, especially the grilles.  I'd also love to see more 70 front end parts being done, but, I'm wondering how many chargers are waiting for these grilles.  I'm also wondering how many cars are being overlooked just because the lack of a grille prevents it from being restored.   A and E bodies obviously don't have this problem.  RR, GTX's don't have this problem either (except maybe the 68's)  But, every year of Charger in the muscle car era doesn't have a repop grille available.  So, what's the holdup and how many cars are being held up or overlooked because of it?

[ACUDANUT]

The Charger Grille has to do things like MOVE. Separate parts that have to work/do things. The Cuda grille just has to bolt up and sit there.

Plus, there are fans of E-bodies. How many years was it Cuda/Challenger quarters were available LONG BEFORE Charger panels. E-bodies attract business because they are popular.

I don't think any grills "move".  They might flex a little due to the heat and or cold temps.

[bull]

I assume he was talking about the headlight doors going up and down, which has nothing to do with anything. One part gets a hole and the other part gets a pin.

[Mike DC]

  
The repro industry has been irrationally under-serving the 68-70 Charger market for decades.  I don't expect it to change any time soon.


But at the same time, I doubt there are a lot of Chargers out there not getting restorations just because grilles are expensive.  Restorations are expensive in every way.  $1500 is not a big portion of $30,000.



Maybe the fact that 2nd-gen grilles have so many separate pieces is putting some companies off.  They cannot advertise "complete grilles" until they tool up at least 5 different parts, and the total price for the set cannot be brought down very low either.  Technically a company could just offer some parts of the grilles, but I'm saying maybe they are treating all the parts like a package deal when they evaluate the economics of it.  

I'm not defending this thinking, I'm just theorizing that maybe it's happening.