noisy valvetrain?

[Al]

Some time ago I replaced the stock heads and exhaust manifolds on my 383. I switched to Eddy rpm closed chamber heads and TTI ceramic coated exhaust collector. The cam and lifters were replaced by a Lunati voodoo cam (603) and lifters.

There's a lot more noise from the engine now. I'm not speaking of the deep V8 rumble but rather a kind of high pitched metallic noise from the valvetrain and also from the exhaust collector.

My question is: as I have NOT replaced the pushrods when changing the cam, could it be that the measured 0.16 lifter preload is not enough and makes the valves clatter?

Should I replace the pushrods or does the problem lie elsewhere?

Al

[Cooter]

Do a search here, as I think there's only one company out there that makes a quality lifter...The rest are known to clatter.

[firefighter3931]

Hi Al,

Did the noise become louder after the oil change ?



Ron

[Al]

Hi Al,

Did the noise become louder after the oil change ?



Ron

Hi Ron,

Difficult to say ... Cold starting is less noisy with Vr1 than the thinner oil, but the oil pressure is really high all the time. After a one hour drive, the noise is less noticeable.

Al

[XH29N0G]

I know less than the others who responded.  I had a noise that I noticed after a cam change.  It was associated with a few cylinders (could hear it by putting a metal rod on the header near them) and that (I think I remember correctly) went away with thicker oil.  Ended up fixing it by replacing the worn stamped rocker arms on that side. 

[Al]

I know less than the others who responded.  I had a noise that I noticed after a cam change.  It was associated with a few cylinders (could hear it by putting a metal rod on the header near them) and that (I think I remember correctly) went away with thicker oil.  Ended up fixing it by replacing the worn stamped rocker arms on that side. 

I replaced all the stamped rocker arms with new ones when I changed the cam.

Al

[firefighter3931]

Hi Al,

Did the noise become louder after the oil change ?



Ron

Hi Ron,

Difficult to say ... Cold starting is less noisy with Vr1 than the thinner oil, but the oil pressure is really high all the time. After a one hour drive, the noise is less noticeable.

Al

Is the 10/40 a different brand ?   

If the noise bothers you i'd go back to the VR-1 20/50 


Ron

[Al]

Hi Al,

Did the noise become louder after the oil change ?



Ron

Hi Ron,

Difficult to say ... Cold starting is less noisy with Vr1 than the thinner oil, but the oil pressure is really high all the time. After a one hour drive, the noise is less noticeable.

Al

Is the 10/40 a different brand ?   

If the noise bothers you i'd go back to the VR-1 20/50 


Ron

The 10/40 is Mobil 1000. Is there a chance that the noise disappears with new pushrods?
Al

[MSRacing89]

Hi Al,

Did the noise become louder after the oil change ?



Ron

Hi Ron,

Difficult to say ... Cold starting is less noisy with Vr1 than the thinner oil, but the oil pressure is really high all the time. After a one hour drive, the noise is less noticeable.

Al

Is the 10/40 a different brand ?  

If the noise bothers you i'd go back to the VR-1 20/50  


Ron

The 10/40 is Mobil 1000. Is there a chance that the noise disappears with new pushrods?
Al

The Lunati cam has aggressive ramps that will naturally cause a bit more noise.  Aluminum heads seem to transmit much more valvetrain noise then steel.  I have a very similar set-up and noticed the increased noise right away.  Oil does not make a difference in my case.

Make sure you understand how to set the valves, go to 0 lash and give it about ¾ of turn of preload.  You may be able to cut some noise down by adding a little more pre-load.  Been running my motor hard for several years now with no issues.  

[firefighter3931]

Hi Al,

Did the noise become louder after the oil change ?



Ron

Hi Ron,

Difficult to say ... Cold starting is less noisy with Vr1 than the thinner oil, but the oil pressure is really high all the time. After a one hour drive, the noise is less noticeable.

Al

Is the 10/40 a different brand ?   

If the noise bothers you i'd go back to the VR-1 20/50 


Ron

The 10/40 is Mobil 1000. Is there a chance that the noise disappears with new pushrods?
Al

So it's a different brand oil ?

I've seen this before....a friend changed from VR-1 to Mobil 1 and the engine sounded like a sewing machine. 

Went back to the VR-1 and all was well. 

Not sure what the additive package is for Mobil 1000 but i'd be careful....you need some extreme pressure additives to protect the cam & lifters. 

It might get quieter with more pre-load but i'd try the oil first. The fast rate hydraulics are a little noisier by design due to the agressive valve action. 



Ron

[ottawamerc]

Wow where have I heard of this before


Scott

[charger496]

 I havea 383 stroker, RPM heads, and Voodoo cam also. I've always compared the valvetrain noise to a sewing machine. It's pretty loud when cruising at about 3000+ rpms. I run PRW 1.6 rockers, and added a little more preload to them and it helped a touch. I'd have added more, but the pushrods aren't long enough for more than 1/2 to 3/4 turn of preload. It runs strong, and I have 12 inchs of vacuum at idle, so I leave well enough alone. 

[Budnicks]

Going from stock cast iron exhaust manifolds {even an aluminum intake, can seem to make the engine noise seem louder/different} to a tube style header will give the engine ", a slightly tinnier sound too", it resonates in the tubes that you don't really hear with cast iron manifolds, it's not that uncommon to have more of, what seems like valve-train noises... IMHFO it's "probably" all engine noises combined, maybe just magnified by the header tubes... different grades/viscosity of oils can/will, even between the fossil oils & synthetics, cause a different noise sometimes too... As for your push rods & lifter preloads, depending on what camshaft base circle you have, you may actually need longer pushrods... Personally I don't really ever use the non-adjustable stamped steel stock style rockers {1.48:1 ratio to 1.50:1 ratio, not very precise} on any of my performance builds, or stock type push-rods either & always custom measure all my engines, for the proper length/style/size push-rods, when ever using a aftermarket camshaft, regardless of the brand, the base circles are all over the map, changing push-rod lengths... Then just order them from Smith Brothers Push rods... It's cheap insurance, in the cost of an engine build... There are some cheap crappy noisy lifters out there too... All just my opinions, might not be what's wrong, but maybe it's food for thought thou... sometimes even changing style of valve covers or the type of breather, can/will accentuate a noise too 

[Al]

Going from stock cast iron exhaust manifolds {even an aluminum intake, can seem to make the engine noise seem louder/different} to a tube style header will give the engine ", a slightly tinnier sound too", it resonates in the tubes that you don't really hear with cast iron manifolds, it's not that uncommon to have more of, what seems like valve-train noises... IMHFO it's "probably" all engine noises combined, maybe just magnified by the header tubes... different grades/viscosity of oils can/will, even between the fossil oils & synthetics, cause a different noise sometimes too... As for your push rods & lifter preloads, depending on what camshaft base circle you have, you may actually need longer pushrods... Personally I don't really ever use the non-adjustable stamped steel stock style rockers {1.48:1 ratio to 1.50:1 ratio, not very precise} on any of my performance builds, or stock type push-rods either & always custom measure all my engines, for the proper length/style/size push-rods, when ever using a aftermarket camshaft, regardless of the brand, the base circles are all over the map, changing push-rod lengths... Then just order them from Smith Brothers Push rods... It's cheap insurance, in the cost of an engine build... There are some cheap crappy noisy lifters out there too... All just my opinions, might not be what's wrong, but maybe it's food for thought thou... sometimes even changing style of valve covers or the type of breather, can/will accentuate a noise too  

Some good ideas there! Maybe there is nothing wrong at all, maybe just as you said the sum of different variables: the combination of aluminum intake, tube headers, more agressive cam, ...

It's just the slight metallic sewing machine impression that I can't get used to. Maybe I'll try tu use Dynamat on the firewall and floor for insulation.

greets
Al

[ottawamerc]

I have the same issue and put a post up here last week about it http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,103023.0.html So if us guys with these Eddy heads/ sewing machines put in a "heavier" oil it might help? I'm running Brad Penn 30W now.

Scott

[68CoronetRT]

Funny you bring this up. I've been working with Ron(Firefighter) on my motor build for the last 4 months and have almost the exact same head/cam/lifter/headers you do. Fired her up and really NOISY!! , I'm going to try the 20-50 oil and if that does not work I will add more pre-load to the lifters since I went with the crane iron ductiles for adjust-ability.

I also had custom pushrods made from smith brothers.

And just for reference sake, I'm running the Lunati lifter with .030 pre load built into it,Valvoline 10-40(Comp cams start up oil x1 bottle) another 1/2 turn will put me @ .050. They recommended you go as far up as .060 but that's on the top top end.

[MSRacing89]

Funny you bring this up. I've been working with Ron(Firefighter) on my motor build for the last 4 months and have almost the exact same head/cam/lifter/headers you do. Fired her up and really NOISY!! , I'm going to try the 20-50 oil and if that does not work I will add more pre-load to the lifters since I went with the crane iron ductiles for adjust-ability.

I also had custom pushrods made from smith brothers.

And just for reference sake, I'm running the Lunati lifter with .030 pre load built into it,Valvoline 10-40(Comp cams start up oil x1 bottle) another 1/2 turn will put me @ .050. They recommended you go as far up as .060 but that's on the top top end.

If you guys want to save yourself the time.......the different oils will not make a huge difference in the long run.  I have tried several combinations and it all has minimal affect.  I use 15-40 Brad Penn (or 20/50 dpending on what we are doing), around 3/4 turn of pre-load, custom hardened 5/16 Smith Bros. ball/cup pushrods.  If you are running 3/8 rods, make sure you are not rubbing on the intake/ exhaust runners.  Its an issue with the Stealth heads. 

Other then that, it is what is what it is, as they say. 

[68CoronetRT]

Funny you bring this up. I've been working with Ron(Firefighter) on my motor build for the last 4 months and have almost the exact same head/cam/lifter/headers you do. Fired her up and really NOISY!! , I'm going to try the 20-50 oil and if that does not work I will add more pre-load to the lifters since I went with the crane iron ductiles for adjust-ability.

I also had custom pushrods made from smith brothers.

And just for reference sake, I'm running the Lunati lifter with .030 pre load built into it,Valvoline 10-40(Comp cams start up oil x1 bottle) another 1/2 turn will put me @ .050. They recommended you go as far up as .060 but that's on the top top end.

If you guys want to save yourself the time.......the different oils will not make a huge difference in the long run.  I have tried several combinations and it all has minimal affect.  I use 15-40 Brad Penn (or 20/50 dpending on what we are doing), around 3/4 turn of pre-load, custom hardened 5/16 Smith Bros. ball/cup pushrods.  If you are running 3/8 rods, make sure you are not rubbing on the intake/ exhaust runners.  Its an issue with the Stealth heads. 

Other then that, it is what is what it is, as they say. 

I'm running exactly that, 3/4 turn of preload which is equal to .030", custom smith bros cromoly(sp?) pushrods. Only option right now is a thicker oil and more preload. I also have the stealth heads with 5/16 rods and had to clearance the intake runners a little.

[Al]

Could you give me a link / the part number (for my 383 with eddy rpm heads)?

Al

[Al]

If you guys want to save yourself the time.......the different oils will not make a huge difference in the long run.  I have tried several combinations and it all has minimal affect.  I use 15-40 Brad Penn (or 20/50 dpending on what we are doing), around 3/4 turn of pre-load, custom hardened 5/16 Smith Bros. ball/cup pushrods.  If you are running 3/8 rods, make sure you are not rubbing on the intake/ exhaust runners.  Its an issue with the Stealth heads.  

Other then that, it is what is what it is, as they say.  

Could you give me a link / the part number (for my 383 with eddy rpm heads)?

Al