Ignition stuff

[Dino]

Just in case my coil turns out to be bad and I need another, which is recommended?  I'm currently running an Accell super coil on a mild street 440.  It also has the orange box (old) and I have no idea what distributor I have.

Let's assume for arguments sake that the whole system needs updating, which is the best for my application?  Budget is always a concern but I do need something that is reliable that can be bolted on and forgot about so best bang fore the buck basically.   

[Ghoste]

I have an MSD Blaster II on mine and I'm happy with it.  It's black so I just peeled the label off and it looks stock.

[firefighter3931]

Let's assume for arguments sake that the whole system needs updating, which is the best for my application?  Budget is always a concern but I do need something that is reliable that can be bolted on and forgot about so best bang fore the buck basically.   

Firecore 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,102245.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,102162.0.html


Ron

[Dino]

Let's assume for arguments sake that the whole system needs updating, which is the best for my application?  Budget is always a concern but I do need something that is reliable that can be bolted on and forgot about so best bang fore the buck basically.   

Firecore 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,102245.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,102162.0.html


Ron

How the heck did I miss these??   

So with the plug 'n' play I can eliminate the orange box and the stock ballast resistor?  I like that idea!  If only to get rid of stuff under the hood!

Ron I am going to look my car over, take some pics, write down some numbers so I know exactly what my sustem consists off.

At this point I think I just want to change the whole thing out so I never have to worry about ignition again!  That includes new spark plug wires as well.  Mine seem okay and should have close to 10K miles on it but better safe than sorry. 

I have Morosso plug wire retainers which are falling apart, got some firecore retainers by any chance?   

I will post back with the pics and part numbers and then we can see what is best for me to get.  I will also call my mechanic to let him know I won't be bringing the car by to set the timing just yet.

Right now I think the dizzy with built in ecu and vacuum advance is the way to go.  I may end up capping the advance but likely will run it as I cruise a lot and my cam likes advance.  Better to have the option just in case.

[Dino]

I have an MSD Blaster II on mine and I'm happy with it.  It's black so I just peeled the label off and it looks stock.

I think I want a firecore now.   

[firefighter3931]

Hey Dirk,

If you were wanting to eliminate the ballist, orange box and wiring...the distributor you would want is the ready-to-run unit with matching coil. The RTR eliminates all of that mess and simplifies the ignition system. The Firecore coil is a must because it is designed to take a 12v continuous feed.

Definately upgrade your wires at the same time to get the most performance. 

Marc (Ridelikehell) just installed the RTR distributor & coil in his car and it's running fantastic. Noticed a big improvement in idle quality and performance, immediately. 

Couple of vids Marc posted :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o9gP42OEGU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5id7-mP7Wxg



Ron

[Dino]

I like it and I want it.  I just hope I have some money left in the Charger fund, been going a bit nuts lately.   

I have not been driving my car much in the last few weeks and it's starting to itch.  I want my baby back!

[firefighter3931]

I like it and I want it. 

I figured  you would ! 

I see that you've been doing lots of upgrades....the wheels/tires sure look nice and i'm sure that the driving experience is much improved 

When you get ready to order lemme know and we can fix you up with a nice ignition system. 


Ron

[Dino]

I like it and I want it. 

I figured  you would ! 

I see that you've been doing lots of upgrades....the wheels/tires sure look nice and i'm sure that the driving experience is much improved 

When you get ready to order lemme know and we can fix you up with a nice ignition system. 


Ron

Ha yep I was sold as soon as I saw it.   

Thanks for the comments!  I'm glad I went with these wheels, they sure do match the car.  In my opinion at least.

The car runs way better with the wider tires although the sloppy steering is more noticable due to the wider fronts.  Not the tire's fault, just some oem slack I have to address.  The bigger sway bar the po installed keeps the nose nice and straight when I throw it in a corner and I have very nice control over the rear.  I can let it slide or make it stick.  I still have a 7/8" rear sway bar new in the box but I was advised not to install it as it may make the car hop.  I may still install it because I can always remove it!

Next up is exhaust mod, install the Edelbrock ias classic shocks, install new sending unit (after making it non linear) and new 3/8 and 1/4 fuel / return line and vapor separator.

I want to make sure the car runs as it should before I install all the power options I've been collecting and the vent window and roof rail seals.  Yep I have lots of boxes in the garage.   

Once the ignition is upgraded and timing is set it's Thermoquad tweaking time.  I can't wait for it, despite the higher rpm sputter, it runs like a friggin' dream with this carb.  First time I punched it I couldn't believe the pull it had when those secondaries opened.  I'm gonna have a lot of fun with this thing, even with the granny gears!   

[firefighter3931]

It sounds like a nice work in progress. Keep chipping away at it and you'll get where you want to be eventually. 

Those spreadbore carbs do work well and you can really feel the "kick" when they're dialed in properly. Some of that is the larger secondary openings and the rest of it is the mechanical secondaries. 


Ron

[68CoronetRT]

I want to do a Firecore as well! But after a long phone convo last night, Ron WONT sell me one . I have to do a few things first before I go down that road with my current ignition setup/problems.

But my   would be to do that if you want to eliminate all your old school stuff!!

[Dino]

It sounds like a nice work in progress. Keep chipping away at it and you'll get where you want to be eventually. 

Those spreadbore carbs do work well and you can really feel the "kick" when they're dialed in properly. Some of that is the larger secondary openings and the rest of it is the mechanical secondaries. 


Ron

I just love that kick, I did not expect to feel such a difference at all.  The sound that accompanies the kick is probably what got the biggest wow out of me, didn't see that coming!

The vast majority of the time the car runs on 35 and 55 mph roads and those small primaries are perfect for that.  When all is dialed in properly I'll be curious to see what mpg is like.  With the old Eddy I could get up to 11 mpg on the freeway, with 2.96 gears and about 7 - 8 on average in town so nothing spectacular there.

I love tinkering with the car (most of it) but I hate not being able to drive while I do so.  Can't have your cake and eat it all the time.

I'm not planning on doing many cosmetic upgrades for a while, I want everything to work as it should before I do that but I'll get there.   

[firefighter3931]

I want to do a Firecore as well! But after a long phone convo last night, Ron WONT sell me one . I have to do a few things first before I go down that road with my current ignition setup/problems.

But my   would be to do that if you want to eliminate all your old school stuff!!

Don't worry Rich....I'll get you a Distributor once we figure out what's going on with the rest of your ignition system.  


Ron

[firefighter3931]

It sounds like a nice work in progress. Keep chipping away at it and you'll get where you want to be eventually. 

Those spreadbore carbs do work well and you can really feel the "kick" when they're dialed in properly. Some of that is the larger secondary openings and the rest of it is the mechanical secondaries. 


Ron

I just love that kick, I did not expect to feel such a difference at all.  The sound that accompanies the kick is probably what got the biggest wow out of me, didn't see that coming!

The vast majority of the time the car runs on 35 and 55 mph roads and those small primaries are perfect for that.  When all is dialed in properly I'll be curious to see what mpg is like.  With the old Eddy I could get up to 11 mpg on the freeway, with 2.96 gears and about 7 - 8 on average in town so nothing spectacular there.

I love tinkering with the car (most of it) but I hate not being able to drive while I do so.  Can't have your cake and eat it all the time.

I'm not planning on doing many cosmetic upgrades for a while, I want everything to work as it should before I do that but I'll get there.   

You should see an improvement in freeway milage once everything is properly dialed in....those small primaries are very efficient. With the bigger cam you have in the engine it will be more efficient at higher engine speeds (2500rpm or more) due to the duration and cam timing events. In the city during stop & go traffic the engine is lugging more...especially with a big cam. That translates to reduced efficiency and decreased fuel economy.

I bet that engine just loves to cruise with those gears and is quite happy in the mid 2k rpm range. 



Ron

[Dino]

It sounds like a nice work in progress. Keep chipping away at it and you'll get where you want to be eventually. 

Those spreadbore carbs do work well and you can really feel the "kick" when they're dialed in properly. Some of that is the larger secondary openings and the rest of it is the mechanical secondaries. 


Ron

I just love that kick, I did not expect to feel such a difference at all.  The sound that accompanies the kick is probably what got the biggest wow out of me, didn't see that coming!

The vast majority of the time the car runs on 35 and 55 mph roads and those small primaries are perfect for that.  When all is dialed in properly I'll be curious to see what mpg is like.  With the old Eddy I could get up to 11 mpg on the freeway, with 2.96 gears and about 7 - 8 on average in town so nothing spectacular there.

I love tinkering with the car (most of it) but I hate not being able to drive while I do so.  Can't have your cake and eat it all the time.

I'm not planning on doing many cosmetic upgrades for a while, I want everything to work as it should before I do that but I'll get there.   

You should see an improvement in freeway milage once everything is properly dialed in....those small primaries are very efficient. With the bigger cam you have in the engine it will be more efficient at higher engine speeds (2500rpm or more) due to the duration and cam timing events. In the city during stop & go traffic the engine is lugging more...especially with a big cam. That translates to reduced efficiency and decreased fuel economy.

I bet that engine just loves to cruise with those gears and is quite happy in the mid 2k rpm range. 



Ron

Why yes it is!     I know I lost a lot of pull when I stuck those gears in but I could cruise that car all day long, it feels, acts and sounds absolutely perfect.  To be honest, I'm a bit surprised that with the current combo it still makes tons of power.  I can still make the tires chirp in 2nd gear.

The biggest mod I will do to this car is fitting a T56 in there.  When that happens I'll have the best of both worlds as I can stick a different gear in the back.  I still have my 3.55's but it's a 741 so I may get something beefier.  It's not something I'm doing soon though as there's so much time involved doing that swap.

I know the cam is not the best and I may swap it later on, I saved the post with the cam reommendation you made, but it runds pretty good and it sure sounds wicked!

[firefighter3931]

With your driving style it makes no sense to make any big changes at this point. 

When you get ready to revisit the drivetrain rebuild we can look at options then but for now if you're happy with it I'd recommend leaving it alone. Maybe just some ignition and carb fine tuning but nothing internal at this point. 

A wise old man once told me : Let sleeping Dogs lie ! 


Ron

[Dino]

Very true and I don't think I would want anything done besides the tune ups and replacing that what is worn.  For a cruiser more gears are better and I do love driving my wife's T/A with the T56 so I definitely want to get one for the Charger eventually.  I also miss having a stick shift in that car.  I will still be cruising it but my wife likes to mash the go pedal a lot so the trans will be as much for her as it will be for me.   

[Dino]

Resistance for the Accell Super Coil 140001 is: 

•Primary Resistance: 0.7 Ohms
•Secondary Resistance: 11.8 k Ohms

Mine measure 0.9 - 1.0 and 12.78 respectively...bad coil or bad multimeter?  When I touch the black and red leads there is zero resistance I can measure.  But I don't know much about this stuff so I'm guessing here.

[mhinders]

It could be several things:
- bad accuracy in the multimeter
- bad connections when measuring
- Accel has "trimmed" the resistance figures for marketing purposes
- there could be some slight degradation of the copper wire, due to vibrations and/or heat

Doesn't sound like there is any serious problem with it IMHO.

[Dino]

Although I'm not eager to spend a ton of money, I almost wish the coil was the problem. 

I think what I'll try tonight is to put the Eddy back on just to see what happens.  If the sputtering continues then I know it's ignition, if not then it's the carb.

All wiring and spark plug wires were checked and all is well there.  Nothing busted as far as I can tell.

[firefighter3931]

I'm with Martin....the coil is within reasonable tolerances and should not be an issue. 

I know you're itching to spend money on a new ignition system    but the reality is that your current set-up seems to be working fine. 

If you have other areas that need more immediate attention you should focus your efforts there. 

When you're ready to upgrade we can fix you up with a nice Firecore ignition system 



Ron

[Dino]

Sound sgood Ron, I still want to swap all this stuff just to make everything work AND look properly.  But yes I will focus on finding the culptrit first.

I'm trying to find concrete measurements for the aftermarket brass floats to see if I did it wrong.  They're set quite high though so I don't know if it's the culprit but it's worth checking.

First thing I'll do is swap carbs to rule out an ignition problem.  If the car runs as it did before with the carb then I'll take the TQ apart and start over.


Now can I test the orange box somehow to rule out problems with it?

[firefighter3931]

Now can I test the orange box somehow to rule out problems with it?

I'm not aware of any tests you can do but that doesn't mean that there aren't any 

The last orange box that i had started acting funny and the car wouldn't idle well and the spark became weak.    Try grounding an ignition wire on a header tube and look at the color of the spark while cranking the engine over. If it's blueish/white you have a strong spark....if it's yellow or dull orange there is excessive resistance in the ignition system somewhere. Quick and easy visual test 



Ron

[Dino]

Now can I test the orange box somehow to rule out problems with it?

I'm not aware of any tests you can do but that doesn't mean that there aren't any 

The last orange box that i had started acting funny and the car wouldn't idle well and the spark became weak.    Try grounding an ignition wire on a header tube and look at the color of the spark while cranking the engine over. If it's blueish/white you have a strong spark....if it's yellow or dull orange there is excessive resistance in the ignition system somewhere. Quick and easy visual test 



Ron

Perfect!  I'll give that a shot tonight.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I know everyone loves the orange box ignitions but I say ditch it! I had a few fail and switched to an MSD 6AL ignition box with the chrysler distributor and couldn't be happier. The orange box left me stranded a few times. In 4 years the MSD box has not failed me once.  Better idle, start ups, and reliability.

But if I was to do it all again I would go with the firecore setup. Looks like a fantastic product

[Dino]

I agree and I will be installing the Firecore system but first I need to fix the other stuff.

I put the Edelbrock 1407 back on and got the linkage working much better than before.  The car is not as peppy as with the TQ but the car runs in all gears at all rpm so the issue was fuel all along.  I will try to work on the TQ this week to see what's going on.  The secondary door sticks because of the washer on the linkage, it binds when it moves so I'll change it for another.  I'll reset the floats and tighten the airdoor a bit and try again.

At least now I know where to look.