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Can the ignition coil make noise?

Started by StockMan, July 02, 2013, 08:45:51 AM

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StockMan

I posted a problem way back with a strange 'Churping' or 'Squealing' noise that seemed to come from the engine compartment.  I ruled out all of the obvious things, like ps pump, alternator, water pump.  The sound never really went away, but did seem to become less prominent as time passed.  And, over time I moved to a new transmission and then to another motor.  After that I figured I would be done with the annoying sound but lately I've been hearing it again.  The only engine/trans components that are the same on the car are the coil, plug wires.  The 'Sound' I'm hearing actually changes slightly with changes in timing, and seems to be more prominent in the more advances timing positions.

This brings me to my question, are ignition coils capable of making noise?

Thanks 

Ghoste


StockMan

I'm baffled then.  What could possibly generate this type of noise?  I've ruled out many things like, like all the belt driven components, and the engine/trans are both new since the problem first began.
And it does change slightly with adjustments to timing, which lead me to believe its something close to the ignition system.
Its not as prominent at cold engine temps.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

green69rt

Are you 100% sure it's not belts?  Easy way to check is to get a spray bottle of water and spray on the belts while engine running, if noise changes or stops you found the problem.  

StockMan

The sound still occurs with all belts off. Thanks.

ottawamerc

Possible grounding in the coil? easy test is drop a different one in there and see if its gone?
This hobby is more than just our cars, it's the people you get to meet along the way!!!

green69rt


StockMan

Thanks for your replies, its not easy diagnosing an odd noise when you can't listen to it. 
Ghoste is probably right about coils not making noise, but for the peice of mind I may just try a different one, not much to swapping it over.

Ghoste

Ghoste is seldom right, just opinionated. ;)

StockMan

Ha, I'm sure if you were here you'd have this thing figured out...

It wouldn't be so bad but I've been after this %$@$% noise for a while now, new 440, new trans, new everything, and the noise comes back???
Frustrating...

Well, I'll have to keep an eye on it, the source will reveal itself sooner or later...

Thanks

ws23rt

These cars are not rock solid. Lots of flexing going on. I would try  a soapy spray on things like hood hinges, rubber isolators, etc.

green69rt

Another idea...look at the shock tower nuts.   They shouldn't squeak but who knows?    Just give them a turn tighter.

StockMan


Thanks for the ideas, I'm ready to try anything.

469 runner

Is your coil aftermarket or stock?  I had a Mallory coil that was very noisy, buzzed all the time.  I don't mean buzzing through the radio speaker, actually buzzing loud enough to hear inside the car. I had it mounted to the firewall and even tried rubber isolators.  No help.  It was a coil not in oil but epoxy. Had to be a manufacturing  defect.  Tossed it and got another, it was quiet.  I think the epoxy was loose in the first one.

Ghoste

Buzzing wouldn't surprise me, like a transformer.  Who am I to say they shouldn't squeal or chirp?

A383Wing


StockMan


I had the distributor apart and lubed it before assembly.  I used a stock coil as well, it would be quite old to.
I'm going to try another coil, wouldn't that be something else if thats all this was.

And like I mentioned, certain timing positions seem to trigger it.  Adjustments to timing would also affect dwell, which could leave the coil charging differently.
The odd thing though is that when I shut it down, just as it comes to the point where engine stops, it lets out a short 'Churp' or squeak.

I look forward to trying another coil, I'll report back after I do this.
Thanks

A383Wing

exhaust rubbing frame or something? heat riser? motor mounts?

tan top

Quote from: A383Wing on July 02, 2013, 09:47:18 PM
dry dist shaft?

was just thinking something going on in the distributor  :scratchchin:  :shruggy:
springs come off & jamming up somewhere  :shruggy: but if you had it all appart & you say the timing ok anyway  ,

this is a far out  idea / thought now ! :image_294343:
what about the distributor shaft bushing in the block ,  different metals expand at different rates , when the block heats up the bushing is looser  , maybe the oil pump gear it tight too in the bushing  :shruggy:
 , & in reality you prolly would not hear it turning anyway , like i say was just a far out guess , cause all what the other guys have mentioned , i think  just about covers all the things that could make a noise ,
just had another thought , did you  try running the motor with out the power steering belt ,? what about problem with fan clutch :scratchchin: arrr but you said you took all belts off , forget that then , & you have replaced most parts & noise is still there  :scratchchin:

got me racking my brains now  , what pulley set up , has your car got AC ,  , or what about the parts you have not replaced ? :scratchchin:
any chance you could post some pictures of engine bay , or a video of the motor running with the noise ,
Feel free to post any relevant picture you think we all might like to see in the threads below!

Charger Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,86777.0.html
Chargers in the background where you least expect them 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,97261.0.html
C500 & Daytonas & Superbirds
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95432.0.html
Interesting pictures & Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,109484.925.html
Old Dodge dealer photos wanted
 http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,120850.0.html

thegeneral266

Hi There,
I had the same noise on my 68 charger, it came and went and drove me bananas :brickwall: I eventually tracked it to the PCV Valve on the engine.
I replaced it and never heard the noise again :icon_smile_big:
:cheers: Phil

A383Wing

just remembered last night one of my cars had squeaking noise at times...turned out to be a galled rocker arm & rocker shaft

chargd72

I would get a mechanic's stethoscope and put it on every piece under the hood until you find the culprit.

          '72 Charger SE 4bbl 318                          '76 Power Wagon 400 W200                                 2011 (attempt at a) Charger

469 runner

Quote from: chargd72 on July 03, 2013, 09:11:27 AM
I would get a mechanic's stethoscope and put it on every piece under the hood until you find the culprit.
That's the best idea yet.


ws23rt

Maybe something inside timing cover. cam bolt, chain, oil slinger ?
OOps you said you changed engine.  Body parts come back to my thinking if it's not a talking coil.

StockMan

I've been all over under the hood and around the trans with a good scope and the closest place I heard anything abnormal was around the oil pump.   And that was very minimal if not the natural sound from that area.  That being said, the distributor shaft has me thinking now, with it being an extension of that area.  And, that shaft was the same one I had in the other motor I believe, so it would be worth checking that out.
The motor mounts and PCV are the same as well, mind you the sound was still there with the PCV unhooked.

I took the car out today and the sound has subsided, until I got to 170/180 then I could hear it after doing 50 or and letting off the gas.
Its always seemed to be that its directly related to the engine vaccum.

By the way, I've got good oil pressure and run at a consistent 170.
Thanks for all the ideas.

StockMan

I was out last night and found that after letting off the gas at around 4mph or so, at operating temp, the squeak becomes constant, and persists until RPMS are down to close to idle.  The squeak will go away if I 'Tap' the throttle under these conditions.  The other thing that's the same on this new motor is the oil pump.  I'm starting to think that this could be it.  This particular pump is a 'High' volume one.  I have a couple of other pumps here that I may try.

Anyone experience squeals or noise from the oil pump?

A383Wing

one would think with all the oil flowing through there, that there should not be anything that would not be lubricated....get a stethoscope with long rod on it and touch everything you can with it.

Bryan

ws23rt

One problem we have when something odd happens is we too quickly tell ourselves what it can't be and move on.  When we do that we limit the possibilities.
So many times in the past I came back to something that was overlooked or missed.
My thought about an oil pump making a squeak sound? A squeak comes from dry metal rubbing.(followed by rapid wear).  Not to rule it out but if you have oil moving-the pump is lubricated. The shaft that drives it gets oil from the engine (from the pump).
If your distributor is the same one from before check that. Not sure what distributor you have but many older ones have a flip top port where one adds oil for the upper bearing. :shruggy:

StockMan

Thanks again for your replies.

I have the stock distributor for the 68 440 with points.  
I probably should pop it out and make sure the upper distibutor bushing is sufficiently lubed,
although I did do this during assembly of the motor.  
As far as the oil pump making this noise, I agree, it doesn't sound logical with it being submerged in oil, but I'm out of ideas at this point.  And again, whats puzzling to me is that the same noise is there after swapping out the 383/727 for a completely new engine/trans.

Here are the things that are the same after the swap.
- Oil pump
- Coil/plug wires/dist cap
- Water pump/PS pump/Alternator (although the sound is there with belts off)
- Motor mounts
- Exhaust manifolds
- PCV valve
- And oil pump shaft I think...

Other facts...
- Initial running of the new motor didn't make the sound (first 70-80 miles or so).
- The sound seemed to develop after working with the timing.
I originally was running the motor without vaccum advance but then made some adjustments to it and am now using it.
This is around when the sound began I beleive.

I'll see if I can record the sound and post it up.

Thanks

PlainfieldCharger

Does the inside of the Distributor cap have allot of carbon tracking  :scratchchin: That could be the sound your hearing... almost a white noise.. :Twocents:

A383Wing

One more time...go to store like Harbor Freight and buy a mechanics stethoscope and find noise with that..

it won't take long, and cost is under $10....take off yer belts & run engine...you will be surprised at what you hear with that tool

Bryan

Ghoste


fy469rtse

 :rofl: reminds me of a noise that drove me crazy in my 68, soft rattling , got worse under full lock in steering , thought it was headers , they were close , dimpled them slightly for more clearances, nothing worked, looked at many things , about a year later turned radio up so not hear it in all this time , I was removing engine to redo engine bay and the install new stroker engine, guess what I found , a 7/16 ring open end spanner that I had dropped and landed in gussets mounts to steering box , and just sat there and rattled, unseen with engine in  :brickwall: keep looking you will find the source ,  I also had a strange noise from around distributor once , a squeaking noise , turned out that was a worn , shortened because of wear, pump push rod, also cause fuel related issues because pump lever arm was not being extended full travel,

StockMan

Finally figured it out, the 'Churp/Squeak' noise I've had to live with all this time ended up being the oil pump.  The pump started to leak recently so I took it apart to change the O-rings, and no more noice.  I guess the pressure/suction was causing the pump to maybe pull in a bit of air, resulting in the noise.  It went for quite a while making the noise, but was not leaking any oil...