Verifying/Authenticating a screen used GL

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 12:18:58 AM

Let's modify this post some, as i didn't want the circus of the post to get outta hand.... Any way to verify a VIN off the GL from the tv series? Interested in buying one my father in law has....

1974dodgecharger · June 30, 2013, 12:36:56 AM

this is gonna be a circus

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 01:16:09 AM

why would it be a circus? did i miss something?

Brock Lee · June 30, 2013, 01:20:35 AM

Despite what some others may say, there was only one General Lee used on the show that had painted door numbers. It was destroyed in 1978. Other than that one off, the rest had vinyl.

FWIW, there have been General Lee clones out there since 1979.

Mike DC · June 30, 2013, 01:33:52 AM

QuoteDespite what some others may say, there was only one General Lee used on the show that had painted door numbers. It was destroyed in 1978. Other than that one off, the rest had vinyl.

Later in the TV series they built cars with painted door numbers by the dozen. I've traced the graphics on a few of them myself.

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The real ones can be validated if it gets down to that. Wayne Wooten of the Dodge Charger Registry has the necessary info on VINs, etc.

But realistically, if you can produce one or two decent quality pics of the car's original 1990s GL paintjob before it was redone, we could probably eyeball it just from that. There was very little decent info out in public for building GL replicas before the 2000s. Even the best replicas from the 1980s or early 1990s were nowhere near as accurate as what people build today. Not even close.

You need to be prepared to find out it's fake. In the 1980s/1990s pretty much any Charger with a GL paintjob would get people thinking/saying it was a real one. Sometimes local rumors would start about a GL replica being a TV car without the owner even claiming it.

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 01:34:41 AM

When he found the car in 1993, it was in not great condition at all. The VIN decodes that it had an original 383 in it and now it has a 440. The car has since been restored.... new passenger quarter, new paint, and decal graphics. He is still looking for a lot of the paper work on it and trying to get some proof. Just trying to figure out how to debunk or authenticate

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 01:38:06 AM

I have spoke to him briefly about it, but i thought he said the car came to his neck of the woods from a guy that worked on the show. I am sure this has been said a million times. I found Wootens website, but no info on how to email or look at the registry.

I always go into stuff like this skeptical. But everything he tells me and i see about the car steers toward there may be some truth behind some of it. Ill post some pics here in a few minutes

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 01:46:23 AM

here are a couple shots of the car. sorry not more detail....anything you can see, let me know

GL#10 · June 30, 2013, 03:38:25 AM

T.v Series cars where Numbered and marked in several places , easy to see if its a tv series General lee , other than that , Without a name , paper trail directly from a W.B employee or the markings , your more than likely looking at a replica .

I have owned several tv series General lee's and several Movie General lee's ,and it is amazing how many people try to pass off a clone as a screen used General .

Mike DC · June 30, 2013, 07:45:49 AM

The graphics in the pictures look like modern era decals.

The rollbar does not look legit to the TV series.

Dino · June 30, 2013, 07:56:50 AM

Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on June 30, 2013, 07:45:49 AM

The graphics in the pictures look like modern era decals.

The rollbar does not look legit to the TV series.

Quote from: kevinstich on June 30, 2013, 01:34:41 AM
When he found the car in 1993, it was in not great condition at all. The VIN decodes that it had an original 383 in it and now it has a 440. The car has since been restored.... new passenger quarter, new paint, and decal graphics. He is still looking for a lot of the paper work on it and trying to get some proof. Just trying to figure out how to debunk or authenticate

I think what ever evidence there may have been is now gone. I thought all the vins had WB in them or some other mark showing it's no longer a titled road car?

Indygenerallee · June 30, 2013, 08:00:14 AM

I think the rear glass had the unit number etched in them.

1974dodgecharger · June 30, 2013, 10:03:29 AM

GL or not thats still nice charger just dont overpay just because his brothers, sister, uncles, dad worked on the Warner brothers lot during taping and saids its the real one

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 12:11:55 PM

roll bar was for sure added in the late 90's. We know its not original. Was done for asthetics i believe. The decals were redone in the mid 90's as well due to the paint job was in much disarray

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 12:14:19 PM

100% understand, that's why we are trying to find the paper trail. He says he has it, he is just in no hurry to scour for it i am guessing. We are making the 700 mile trip to see them soon, should get more answers.

What can i look for on the back glass for the number etchings? I have the VIN, just not something I am sure is a good idea to share on a public forum?

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 12:15:40 PM

also asking price is 60k

Ghoste · June 30, 2013, 12:21:08 PM

To me it seems like a lot but then again I don't know GL pricing. If its a real one and that's what you want then I suppose its worth is whatever you feel good about.

Indygenerallee · June 30, 2013, 12:43:14 PM

crack pipe price....

Ghoste · June 30, 2013, 02:46:09 PM

If it is a real one though, does that change things?

Indygenerallee · June 30, 2013, 02:59:23 PM

If it's real then it might be worth it but it's highly unlikely, if the owner wants to sell it you would think with it being a original General Lee he would list it on (Ebay) or take it to BJ or Mecum.

Ghoste · June 30, 2013, 03:04:31 PM

Yeah, that's true too. One of those cars that's hard to predict.

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 03:18:21 PM

he's not wanting to sell the car. Doesn't want to list it or anything. He wants it to stay in the family and has kept it as a retirement fallback. He is ready to liquidate because he has 10 cars fully restored or working on it the process. Just one of those things i brought up and is discussing with me

skip68 · June 30, 2013, 03:38:12 PM

Without verification there's no way I'd pay that kind of money. It has to be authenticated to be worth top dollar otherwise it's worth the same as any other Charger.

Mike DC · June 30, 2013, 04:14:22 PM

Yeah, a "possible" connection to the TV show is worth exactly zilch.

Without concrete verification that is more like a $30k car than a $60k one.

ws23rt · June 30, 2013, 05:36:27 PM

This sounds like a repeat of an old question. If a car has some history about where it has been or owned by someone important

how is that passed on? A document that says he said/she said?
I wonder about a potential buyer and what gives with that kind of history as being something of value?
I know it happens but it just makes me smile

Suppose an old car came up that Hitler farted in and someone said they had DNA proof. Would that car bring a better price. I think with sadness that it would.

So how much would that provenience bring at auction?

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 07:34:29 PM

Is this really a serious question. You wonder about a buyer when it comes to connections with the show or any other car that has connection to other notable people/shows? All i wanna know is if there a way to authenticate or bunk... That is all. If it turns out to be replica, then so be it, I pass on it.... If it's something to do with the show, I am interested and want to pursue. Any legitimate help would be much appreciated!!

ws23rt · June 30, 2013, 08:15:52 PM

Quote from: kevinstich on June 30, 2013, 07:34:29 PM
Is this really a serious question. You wonder about a buyer when it comes to connections with the show or any other car that has connection to other notable people/shows? All i wanna know is if there a way to authenticate or bunk... That is all. If it turns out to be replica, then so be it, I pass on it.... If it's something to do with the show, I am interested and want to pursue. Any legitimate help would be much appreciated!!

This question was not intended to be serious. It is however intended to question the value of something that is based on someones past use of a vehicle and how that affects it's value. I find humor in peoples behavior. I am one of those people and if I had a car that sold high because of who owned it before I would play it up like anyone else. The smile I have comes from how odd it looks when we step back and ask the question.
I am responding to the thread topic and not to any individual responder.
The real question remains. How will the value of these cars be agreed to among buyer and seller years from now? Will it be a piece of paper that says it is so? A survivor is that. A clone is a clone. A restored original is what can be proven. If these movie cars are to hold value there needs to be a sound way to show it.

1974dodgecharger · June 30, 2013, 09:22:04 PM

Quote from: kevinstich on June 30, 2013, 12:14:19 PM
100% understand, that's why we are trying to find the paper trail. He says he has it, he is just in no hurry to scour for it i am guessing. We are making the 700 mile trip to see them soon, should get more answers.

What can i look for on the back glass for the number etchings? I have the VIN, just not something I am sure is a good idea to share on a public forum?

car be worth more if he the previous owner kept the car in its original condition with the dings/dents/ etc..from the show itself it shows originality in it. When you restore it then you just have another restore and anyone can claim anything to me its good as a clone if one restored an original dukes car.

Indygenerallee · June 30, 2013, 09:34:51 PM

Quote
car be worth more if he the previous owner kept the car in its original condition with the dings/dents/ etc..from the show itself it shows originality in it. When you restore it then you just have another restore and anyone can claim anything to me its good as a clone if one restored an original dukes car.

X2 That's why many of the original screen used "jump" General Lee's are still all bent up and "not pretty" because once you restore it, it's just another cloned General Lee.

kevinstich · June 30, 2013, 11:05:07 PM

Having the opinion that it is just another restore original is all good and well. But we all know the value is much better with the history no matter what you have done to the car as long as you have followed the correct guidelines to restore. The history and the paper trail is what makes it worth so much. Having it look great in the process is just an added benefit. I for one would rather have it restored looking nice and have that paper work instead of having a piece of crap original sitting on some jack stands rotting away in a garage... Just my opinion. The question remains....Any body able to provide help with authenticating from the VIN or otherwise?

GL#10 · June 30, 2013, 11:18:23 PM

Keep trying to Contact Wayne Wooten from the Dodge Charger Registry , they marked the cars in several places , yes the back window was one , the cars Warner Brothers had left from the show bar 2 all went to Wayne Wooten and members of the registry , and the W.B issued the statement that unless you have one with the COA , your either looking at a clone or one that was stolen, this was in 1991 .

That being said for $60k he had better have a COA from W.B , other than that the charger is not going to be worth anymore than a non GL or replica , in the same condition on the market.

Just because he says he got it from someone who worked on the show , or his uncle aunt's sister in law did , doesn't mean anything with out a COA , and if you go to resell it , that's what people
will want to see PROOF paperwork COA directly from the W.B , most auction houses wont sell it without paperwork directly from the W.B .

Wayne Wooten is your best bet for information and verification of this charger .

marshallfry01 · June 30, 2013, 11:29:16 PM

Well back to the original question, ways to know if it's a general is too look at the bottom left corner of the back glass to see any numbers carved in the glass, usually the fender tags are missing, there will be tan over spray over EVERYTHING in the interior, look to see if a wide push bar had been welded to it before it was restored, and make sure it matches the "aj thrasher" push bar. I know you said the car has been restored, but maybe some of that evidence is still visible. If you can post a pic or two of the car before it was restored I could tell you in a heartbeat if it's real or not. And if he can prove its a real general, I think it's worth $60,000 all day long. But if he can't prove it, then $30,000 is a fair price in my opinion.
I hope that helped you out a little.

marshallfry01 · June 30, 2013, 11:32:21 PM

Gl #10 beat me to the answer haha

ws23rt · June 30, 2013, 11:36:55 PM

Quote from: GL#10 on June 30, 2013, 11:18:23 PM
Keep trying to Contact Wayne Wooten from the Dodge Charger Registry , they marked the cars in several places , yes the back window was one , the cars Warner Brothers had left from the show bar 2 all went to Wayne Wooten and members of the registry , and the W.B issued the statement that unless you have one with the COA , your either looking at a clone or one that was stolen, this was in 1991 .

That being said for $60k he had better have a COA from W.B , other than that the charger is not going to be worth anymore than a non GL or replica , in the same condition on the market.

Just because he says he got it from someone who worked on the show , or his uncle aunt's sister in law did , doesn't mean anything with out a COA , and if you go to resell it , that's what people
will want to see PROOF paperwork COA directly from the W.B , most auction houses wont sell it without paperwork directly from the W.B .

Wayne Wooten is your best bet for information and verification of this charger .

So it sounds like a COA would be equivalent to a build sheet? Information on that document should match up to the car vin or some other feature of the car.
I can see that as being enough to get more money out of the car at resale.
Would that COA include information about where that car played a role?

kevinstich · July 01, 2013, 12:28:25 AM

Thanks, I will check on that info and keep digging on him about that paper work. We are 700 miles apart so phone calls are about all i can do for the moment. I'll let you all know the progress or any findings

GL#10 · July 01, 2013, 05:02:07 AM

QuoteSo it sounds like a COA would be equivalent to a build sheet? Information on that document should match up to the car vin or some other feature of the car.
I can see that as being enough to get more money out of the car at resale.
Would that COA include information about where that car played a role?

No the COA , just states the VIN and that it was a W.B General lee , nothing more , there is no way of knowing where your Tv GL appeared or what episode , unless you really watch the show and pick your GL out , i know a couple of the owner's have done this .

I know of two T.V series General lee's for sale at $150k ,documented COA , have they sold , no .

JT01 · July 01, 2013, 05:28:10 AM

Also ask if the car has rear helper springs all TV Generals had them they could of been removed if it is real but just something to ask.

Ghoste · July 01, 2013, 09:33:24 AM

Would it be reasonable to assume that the ones WB sold through Wayne would have all been from the end of the series?

Mike DC · July 01, 2013, 10:01:07 AM

There was one car from the 17 that had been mounted up on a billboard display several stories in the air at WB. It already had some moderate jump damage at the time. That car was never overhauled to match the appearance of the late-series cars.

The other 16 surviving cars were done up like the late series GLs. When Warner Bros changed suppliers of GLs during the series they had bought out the existing pile of GLs from the earlier suppliers. The cars were converted to match the new continuity at that time. Broadly speaking they were later built cars that survived, although a few cars & parts show evidence of the earlier builders.

By the later years of the series they had some specialized cars. Closeup cars, ski cars, drivers, etc. They didn't wreck them in anything like the order they built them. Some of the 17 cars have evidence of several seasons of repeated driving & banging, other cars they wrecked almost as soon as they were built.

Ghoste · July 01, 2013, 10:05:45 AM

Okay. I guess I was just thinking the fact they survived would have meant they weren't pressed into service until near the very end of the series.

Mike DC · July 01, 2013, 10:13:37 AM

There is some truth in that idea - the "survivors" were not heavy jump cars. None of them (aside from the billboard car) had gotten a full rollcage and done a big unibody-demolishing jump yet.

The worst jump damage was some mini-jumping 3-5 feet up in the air. They used to do that with nothing more than the 2pt "dummy" rollbars and lap belts. Those cars had lots of bent sheetmetal, even some slightly tweaked unibodies, but not the big heavy wreckage that the show was known for.

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Verifying/Authenticating a screen used GL