Quick amp question

[Captain D]

I had a quick question about which alternator amp you think I should go with. Basically, my engine is very close to stock electronically (69' Charger, 383 4 brrl BB, non A/C car, single pulley). The only 'upgrades' are:

1.) electronic points ignition,
2.) new headlights,
3.) cd player.

Even that, I hardly, if ever, use my headlights and my cd player is currently disconnected. I don't even have my dome light nor the instrument gauge lights hooked up. I'm concerned about ruining my stock wires (melting, fires, etc.). I wish that I could find, perhaps, a 50 amp alternator. But, I can only find a 60 amp alternator - do you think that this would be too much amps?

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing any and all input,
Aaron

[Fred]

The 60 amp alternator is quite safe to use. I've got the same set up and I use a 75 amp.

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

A 60 amp alternator will be fine. I would also consider doing the Chrysler fleet bypass wiring modification which bypasses the problematic pins in the bulk head connector. This what Chrysler did when running a 60 amp alternator. I would also consider replacing the fusible link wire with something a little more reliable like a Littlefuse Maxi Fuse at 60 amps. Rockauto's Acdelco 3342089 will give you a 60 amp "square back" alternator and you'll be all set. This is a dual field terminal alternator so you'll need the newer electronic regulator on your 69.

[Captain D]

Thank you gents for the replies - all good info.  

Fred - What form of external voltage regulator were you able to find for your 75 amp alt. if I may ask?

We installed, and very briefly ran, a new 60 amp alternator with the existing stock 60 amp voltage regulator, and the multimeter registered this old regulator within the 9 range. A friend noted that once the new voltage regulator comes in (the one designed for electronic ignition that can withstand up to 65 amps), he said to check it again with the multimeter and hopefully it should read within the 12 range since my ammeter gauge reading was still showing a -20 whenever I applied the brake or had the car in gear. If nothing still changes after I install this new voltage regulator, he said that he has some high-end equipment that can trace which wire(s) is the culprit.

Pete in NH - I'll definitely look into the 'Littlefuse Maxi Fuse' - thank you. I can't say that I've ever heard of it, but I'll definitely look to see where I may be able to find it, price, how to install, etc.

I was able to find a few links. Were these correct as to what you were referring to?:

http://www.bowessealfast.com/p-2520-littelfuse-maxi-60-60amp-blade-fuses-single-pack.aspx

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_maxi-fuse-60-amp-omix-ada_10181505-p?searchTerm=littelfuse+maxi+60+60+amp+blade+fuses

Thank you again for the guidance and best regards,
Aaron

[Fred]

Here you go Aaron.........

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

Yes, both those links are for the Maxi-Fuse that I would use. You can get an in line pigtail holder for them as well. Fred gave you the correct regulator. I'm not sure what you have on the car presently by the information in your posting. Make sure the regulator has a good ground. Use external tooth lockwashers to mount it and I prefer bolting them on with 1/4-20 bolts, lockwashers and nuts rather than self tapping screws. Also, scrape away some of the paint around the mounting hole on both the regulator and firewall mounting holes for a good ground.

[Captain D]

Hi guys,

Thank you for the replies - I'll be sure to pick up one of the Maxi-Fuses on my next trip into Advance Auto,  . I've never installed one of these before, so it'll be a learning experience. Any tips, suggestions, something not to do, etc?

As for my new regulator, the link below was the one I had purchased over the past weekend that finally came today:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=251296553690

I was able to hook it up earlier today before work and started the car to do a test run. The ammeter numbers were:

- Slightly in the negative when the key is in the 'on' position (engine non-turned over just yet),
- At idle with the car started: +20 (even a few spikes to +30),
- When put in gear with my foot on the brake pedal (either forward or reverse) a reading between 0 to +20.

I'm glad to see that I'm no longer in the -20 reading, but are these numbers okay/safe - even when the +30 was indicated at idle and I occasionally revved up the engine? And lastly, is it normal for the regulator to get fairly warm to the touch (I suppose with the amps going through it it bound to get a little warm/hot)?

Thank you again for all of the replies and guidance,
Aaron
 

[Pete in NH]

After you first start the engine you need to replace the energy used to start the car so a amp reading of +30 or so is normal. As the battery recharges the reading should slowly fall back to the center or just slightly above it. If for some reason the battery was really down, it may take some time to fall back to the center. However, it should return to the center region of the ammeter.If it doesn't you have some type of problem.

On installing the Maxi-Fuse as I mentioned you can get in line holders for them. These holders have two wires coming out of the bottom and a rubber cap that closes over the top of the fuse in the holder to keep it splash proof. This fuse replaces the fusible link which typically is found coming from the 1/4 " battery stud on the starter relay to a single wire connector into the wiring harness. I would use a 1/4" ring terminal on the starter relay side and solder the other side into the wiring harness after removing the original connector. At these current levels soldered connections are always best.

[Captain D]

Hi Pete,

I started the car up again and let it run a little while to see if the ammeter came back down (which, shouldn't have taken too long since the battery was/is fully charged after testing it too). However, although it registered between 0 and +20 when I put it in gear while sitting at idle as mentioned previously, whenever I give it gas at idle and take it for a mini spin around the yard it spiked between the +30 and +40 to a dang near pegging position  . While the car was still running, and in park, I went up under the dash to touch the ammeter terminal on the rear cluster and both the alternator and oil pressure terminals were hot to the touch.

With that being said, I certainly wasn't about to take it up the road after that for fear of causing a melting/fire issue. Its odd because the old 75 amp that I had on there (with a non-electronic ignition regulator) never caused the ammeter to spike and this new alternator is a 'lower' amperage with a correct electronic ignition regulator that can withstand up to 65 amps. It would seem that either the regulator isn't doing its job or there is some other problem elsewhere that could be causing the problem. In the meantime, I can pick up a Maxi-Fuse but any idea what this issue could be? The only other thing that I did electronically recently was to address two wires under the car itself for when I kept blowing my back-up light fuse. I found that two wires were exposed (probably due to the heat of the headers) and I simply wrapped up individually and then collectively together when finished and the back-up lights are working perfectly fine now...

Thank you again for any and all input!
Aaron  

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

Okay, something is not right. Can you take your voltmeter and measure the voltage across the battery terminals, the reading should be between 13.8 and about 14.4 volts. I suspect you may find it is much higher. The ammeter terminals are getting warm because as the ammeter is indicating there is a lot of current flowing. Yes, don't run the car long in this condition, because if the voltage is too high you will surely fry something, very likely the battery

If you do find the voltage too high try disconnecting the regulator and then remeasure the battery voltage if it drops down to around 12 volts you will know the regulator is the issue. Good luck!

[resq302]

Hi Aaron,

What Pete said could also explain why your voltage regulator is getting warm / hot.  One thing to double check is all of your grounds.   A bad ground can cause all kinds of headaches.

[Captain D]

Hello again and thank you for the replies,

I went ahead and did some readings after work tonight with the multimeter. Being close to midnight, I didn't want to wake the house   so, I did the readings cold (non-engine running). But, I can start it up tomorrow and do some more tests if necessary. In the meantime, below were the numbers from the cold readings:

- Battery readings with regulator still hooked up: 12.48. And, second try: 12.47 (battery).
- Battery readings with voltage regulator disconnected: 12.47 - 12.48 (battery).
- And, the regulator itself was 00.00 when tested whether or not it was hooked up or not (regulator).

I can start it up tomorrow for better readings, but I'm weary now about starting it up. I 'think' I should be okay just to start it up - its applying gas that increases the amperage that I need to be cautious of I suppose. Just to double-check/clarify, you are suggesting to start the car, measure the battery while its still running, and if its readings are higher than 13.8 and 14.4 volts to re-test the battery with the voltage regulator disconnected while the car is still on?

I'll see if the seller will allow me to return this voltage regulator if its the main problem and go on the hunt for another one, perhaps like Fred's regulator pictured above. My fitment seems to be hard to find with the one screw on one side and the male terminal on the opposite (as pictured in the ebay add above). With all of the replacement parts going into this car, all I can say is that this car is certainly helping to stimulate the economy... Any positive or negative reviews on this one below from you guys?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121129616914&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

'Thank you again' for the replies and input!
Aaron


   

[Pete in NH]

Aaron,

Only the readings with the engine running are going to tell us what is really going on. So, as soon as you can make those tests we will know more. Yes, if the battery voltage is above 13.8 to14.4 volts with the engine running that would be a problem.

The regulator gets warm because it is controlling the field current to the alternator. It acts as a variable resistor and constantly adjusts the field current to maintain the 14 volt alternator output. The excess voltage betwen 14v and whatever it takes to maintain the required field current turns to heat. If you look at the EBay pictures in the link you sent you can see the transistor that does that job. The transistor is mounted to the metal case to dissipate that heat, so it will get warm. It should get warm not hot.

If you convert over to the Mopar regulator Fred suggested you will need to change the wiring connector to plug into the regulator and add one wire between the regulator and alternator. But, you will in the end have the factory system Chrysler designed for the alternator you are using. Over the years I have not had very good luck with aftermarket regulators and have found the Chrysler part to be well worth the few extra dollars.

[Captain D]

Hello Pete,

Thank you for your speedy reply my friend. We were able to do a test reading with the multimeter on the car today and here is what we recorded with the readings:

- The battery - (jumping around somewhat) we were able to get an approximate 14.25 to 14.30.
- The 'new' voltage regulator - approximate 5.30.

The other day, the regulator did manage to jump near the 11.00 and 12.00 for a second, but then averaged out below those numbers for the most part. Today, it seemed to be on the lower end for some reason (maybe because the car wasn't on for very long - being only 5 - 8 minutes tops) but can re-test the regulator again tomorrow morning if need be. I thought that I heard that the regulator too is supposed to be in the 12.00 number reading range. Is that correct?

In searching for Fred's regulator, I wasn't able to find one locally unfortunately, but noted that Summit Racing has one with the same part #:

 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-4529794/overview/

And:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-3690731

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-3690732

If this is, in fact, the problem I suppose I don't trust myself enough to make the electrical wire changes at my home, so I'll probably just take it to a garage to ensure that it is done correctly 100%. If you'd like for me to do another battery check tomorrow morning (or another regulator check), just let me know and I'd be happy to get any readings that you'd like to help zero in on the problem.

Thank you again for your time and help,
Aaron

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

The 14.25 to 14.30 Volt readings at the battery with the engine running is just fine and within the normal range. The 5 volts for the regulator, I take it is at the regulator output to the alternator field winding and that too is a normal reading depending on the load the alternator is seeing. Is the ammeter still reading +30 amps? With the voltages within normal range as they are the ammeter current should taper off as the battrey charges. If it doesn't the current is going somewhere and you may have another wiring problem somewhere in the car. Since the battery doesn't seem to be going flat over night when the car is off it may be some thing only on the run side of the ignition circuit. Are you sure the battery is really fully charged and in good condition. If so, that charging current should taper off.

I would hold off on searching for another regulator as the one you have seems to be working. But, I would want to know where all that current is going if you are still getting a +30 amp reading on the dash ammeter.

[Captain D]

Hi Pete,

I did yet another test and the readings today:

- Battery: 14.30 when cold prior to start-up.
- Regulator: anywhere between the 2.00 to 5.00 range when started up.
- With the engine off and key in the off position, after I ran the car for several minutes, the battery reading was exactly: 12.61 when tested with the multimeter.

At initial start-up, the ammeter read within the +30 and even +40 range, then slightly decreased after the start-up. The good news was that this time round,' the ammeter registered at the +20 range the whole time (even when taking it for a spin around the yard), and less when I just sat there while in gear (between 0 and +20). I was beginning to think that things were beginning to taper out as mentioned previously. However, when I shut it down and came back to it 5 minutes later - it began to register at the +30 range again. I let it run for a few minutes, shut it down, and then repeated the same scenario. And, once again, it remained at the +30 range.   As for the battery, I just very recently had it tested for any dead cells and its in good shape.

When I first had seen the +20 reading, I was anxious to take it out on the road to do a test run at higher RMPs, but when it came back with the +30 I admit, I wimped out and thought it best not to drive it on the road just yet. As for the terminal on the back of the cluster, when the car reading was at +20 it didn't feel hot. But, when the car started reaching the +30 again, the terminal became moderately warm. Maybe things are 'ever soooo slowly' beginning to taper out, but tomorrow I may simply have it towed to a garage that have a few Mopar/Chrysler gurus working there that can use better equipment that I have here, and, have a new 60 amp Maxi-Fuse installed while its getting checked out.  

'Thank you' again for all of the help and guidance as I will be sure to post back to let you know how things go...
High regards,
Aaron

[resq302]

Just a question, Aaron, but have you double checked for corrosion or dirty connections on any of your grounds?

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,
That system voltage is certainly within normal range. As Nacho has posted the dash board ammeter is really best thought of as a battery charge/discharge meter. If it's wired correctly it is reporting whether current is flowing in or out of the battery. Your's seems to be telling us current is flowing into the battery at a pretty high level. By any chance have you added any accessory items that get their power from the battery side of things? For the ammeter to read correctly, added accessories need to be wired to the Alternator side of the ammeter.

[Captain D]

Hello all,

The other night, I inspected every ground that I could find, took it apart, lightly/gently sanded, and had used a contact cleaner. I even cleaned the wires to/from the starter, the ground from the battery to the engine block, etc. and then started up the car to see if there was any change. Whether or not it really helped, at least I know that my grounds are clean! The readings on the gauge was about the same: 0 to +20 for the most part, then seemed to increase close to the +30 reading when the gas is applied and car heats up. I also noted that, although the gauge cluster terminals didn't get hot like they did the other day, the voltage regulator did get moderately warm/hot. A friend up the road from where I live noted that he thinks that its a weak voltage regulator and even suggested putting the old one back on (the 60 amp non- electronic unit from NAPA), but I told him that my readings seem to be within the normal range.

One thing that I did notice but didn't know if it was relevant or not, but when I was under the dash checking the rear gauge cluster terminals, my new gauge cluster voltage regulator/limiter was flashing red at every two to three second intervals. I just haven't noticed that before and just thought that I would mention it. We were looking to have the car checked out at a local garage with a few Mopar experts there, but things got back-dated as they are backed up for a few days prior to the holiday weekend. Since I've got about a week, I suppose that gives me more time to do some more tests. As for any accessories - there is nothing hooked up at all.  

Thank you again for your time and if I were to ever go with one of these voltage regulators as posted by Fred, any good sellers that sell the actual connector terminal to correctly install it that you know of, by chance? (to make the transition from what I have to this version in other words):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Performance-Voltage-Regulator-Restoration-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-Each-/390615614425?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5af28143d9&vxp=mtr

Thank you again,
Aaron

[resq302]

Aaron,

Not to worry!  The RTE solid state voltage limiter for the gauges is supposed to blink like that.  Its basically a visual to know that it is working ok.  If it was a constant light, then you would have an issue.  Mine also blinks like that too.   

[Pete in NH]

Aaron,

I don't think the voltage regulator is the issue as the system voltage is normal. If you where to change to the Chrysler electronic regulator you will need the connector which Standard Motor Products S573 or Dorman 85126. If you have a battery charger,try disconnecting the negative battery cable and putting the battrey on the charger. If the battery still draws the maximum the charger can put out it is either not fully charged or you have a battery issue. See if the battery tapers off on the charger and if it does then put it back in the car and see what happens.

[Captain D]

Hello Pete,

For the past few days I've been checking out the grounding issues. In a nutshell, I've been sanding the painted areas around as many mounting holes on the firewall as I possibly can where any and all grounds connect (and even swapped out some of the older hardware for new while I was at it), and, started up the car today to do a little run around the yard to see how much the ammeter actually fluctuated.

To make a long story short, it stayed between the 0 and the +20 range when putting it into gear, both forward and reverse. The good news was that it did stay closer to the '0' point when put in gear I should say. And, while trying to get a little speed in the yard (as much as I could in the yard), it topped out at just a notch below the +20 range. If I had to put a number on it, I would say that it could be a +18; which is a heck of a lot better than that +30,  .

The only odd thing that I can add was that, when the ammeter reached the +18 mark, it didn't go any further - almost like it reached its 'limit.' I know that this may sound like a dumb observation, but I suppose I'm just used to my older readings in which the ammeter tended to bounce around a bit. But this time, at a somewhat 'steady cruise' in the yard, it reached the +18 and held very firm at that reading (without going a notch higher) when applying the gas forcefully. I'm not sure if this is crucial or not, but I just thought that I would mention it here simply because it had never done that before.

As for the ground connection, I probably can't say exactly which one may have been the culprit, but at least they're getting clean now and perhaps I'll do another (and longer) test run on the road in the next day or or so to see if anything should change from the readings of today if you feel that these numbers are now in the safe zone. A friend of mine mentioned a ground wire that runs from the rear of the gauge cluster to the steering column. In disconnecting my cluster from the dash twice now, I honestly can't recall any ground wires in that particular area. Where is it best for me to look up under the dash so that I could spot where it 'should' be and, perhaps, make one? Also, I 'believe' that I covered and cleaned a good number of grounds under the hood in the engine compartment, but since I do not have a service manual on the car just yet - is there a complete listing of ground wires that you know of that I can print up and go down the 'check-list' (in other words) just so that I know that I've addressed them all for the most part?

Thank you again for the all of the helpful info - all good material indeed,
Best regards,
Aaron

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Sorry Aaron, finally I replied your PM...

[resq302]

Hi Aaron,

I'm not familiar with any "ground" wires for the cluster to the dash.  I'm pretty sure that the metal housing of the cluster gets "grounded" by the metal screw holding it tight to the metal frame work of the dash.  What I did on my car was just made sure that there was at least one of the areas where the cluster made contact that was bare metal and even put some dielectric grease on there to keep it nice and clean.   

[Captain D]

Hello all,

Basically, we got a battery tester/charger and was surprised to see that it needed charged since we just recently had it checked and it was good only a few short weeks ago. I was able to replace the battery with the hopes that a bad battery was the simple problem. However, after installing a new battery:

- now none of the front lights, park lamps, turn signals, gauge needles, and rear lights come on,

- when the key is in the 'on' position, the gauge needles don't rise and the ammeter doesn't briefly go into the negative reading - it simply stays at '0.'

- the clock briefly stopped and even went backwards for a few moments,

- I was able to get the front lights on for a short time by disconnecting the wiring plug behind the cluster and cleaning it up behind there. But, when I turned the car off and back on again - they were out. I was able to get the headlight doors to come up, but not close. I hear hissing coming from our vacuum switches too.

- and, when I tested the new battery in the car to see what the reading was with the tester/charger, the battery reading began to dwindle as if something was draining it and it needed to be charged.

So, the car has a new battery, alternator, and voltage regulator + a vast majority of the key ground wires/connectors have been cleaned. I am hoping that the car will start tomorrow so that I can take it to get checked out, but it seems that I am losing power quickly throughout the car and when it is on, things seem to be working overtime to send power to the battery for some odd reason. I'm worried that since I have a new battery in there now, if so much power seems to be going to the battery could something possibly overload (now that it is new/full charged)...?

I've had the old battery disconnected off and on when cleaning the ground wires, so I didn't know if the constant on/off again would throw stuff off or not. I've never seen anything like this before. Electrical things are falling like dominoes. Any ideas? Would it be safe to even start up tomorrow?  scratchchin The 'only' thing that I can come up with at this point is either the wiring harness or the fusible link connectors are going bad.

Thank you for any input,
Aaron

[resq302]

Aaron,

Can you disconnect one fuse at a time and see what might be causing the draw on the battery when it is running?

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

Keep the negative battery cable disconnected until you find the problem or you will pull your new battery down too. As Brian has suggested pull out one fuse at a time to see if you can isolate the problem current draw down to one circuit. You can take out a fuse and then touch the negative battery cable to the negative battery post if you see a small spark as it touches, is still being drawn. Do you have a test meter with a DC Ampere position? If so place the negative meter lead on the battery post and the positive meter lead to the negative battery cable. If you get a meter reading current is being drawn. make all these tests with the engine NOT running and the key in the off position. From all the other lights and such that aren't working it sounds like your car may have a lot of the problems typical of 40 year old wiring. Try disconnecting and replugging in the bulkhead connectors several times to clean up the pins a bit. Also, when you do that look and see if any of the pins are melted, discolored or burnt.

[Captain D]

Hello Pete and Brian,

After everything electrical just died on me, I admit - I lost some patience and simply called AAA a few days ago to take it to a local garage where there is a Chrysler expert on hand to see if he could find something that I couldn't (actually, the fuse test and the test meter suggestions both are a good idea and I may still try it yet). The garage finally got back w/ me and said that everything, surprisingly, looks good with the new 60 amp alternator, new 60-65 amp electronic regulator, and new battery. They believe that the primary issue was with my old alternator, which was cranking out too many amps for a non-electronic regulator (in addition that couldn't handle that many amps from the alternator that was pushing a whopping 90 amps  ). Plus, my older battery was low, which was also why both the new alternator and regulator were working harder to charge that battery.

However,  the problem with the new battery was that it was/is new, but was produced last July. So with having a shelf life of a year of not being used, it was essentially dead when when I bought the dang thing. We charged it and everything seems to be okay, but the ammeter still reads close to the + 20 reading when we rev it up (however, the good news is that it seems to hover between the 0 and the +20 at idle). Tomorrow, I'm going to double check to see if the new regulator gets hot like it did a few days ago and maybe double check the amount of amps that the new alternator is producing (if possible), which "shouldn't" be over 60 amps. I suppose now I am a little weary that alternators seem to go above their designated mark seeing how my old one went much higher than indicated.

In your opinion, do you feel that I should return the new battery? They say at the shop that now that it is fully charged, its fine - but I definitely value others opinion. Also, I gave them a 60 amp maxi fuse to install, but said that it couldn't be installed because there was no way to install it due to space and they could not find a pig line connection...? If I can't get it installed, "it is what it is" I suppose, but is there any other way that you know of on how to get that installed, by chance?

In the meantime, I will definitely mention to them your suggestion regarding the fuse check. As far as the +20 alternator reading when revving the engine up, do you agree with them when they state that its just "the norm" more or less for my particular car when revving up the motor?

I'll be calling them again in the morning over at the garage and thank you for your time and input once again,
Aaron

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

I'm not sure I fully understand the explanation in your first paragraph. As best I can make out they were saying the alternator required more field current than the regulator could provide. Although I have to say when someone who is supposed to really know an area such as automotive electrical systems offers kind of a jumbled explanation, I have to wonder how well they know what they are doing.

On the new battery, the clock on the battery's life kind of starts when the acid is first poured in. So, if it sat on a shelf for a year unused and not periodically charged, that may be time you will not get back out of the battery. That's one reason why you want to buy batteries from somewhere where the stock turns over fairly quickly. It's also a good practice to put a newly purchased battery on a charger for a while before installing in a car to make sure it's fully charged. The fact that you are still seeing +20 amp charge currents when you rev. the engine tells me the battery is either still not fully charged or defective in some way. Or the possibility is still there something in the car is not wired right. This is based on your reporting the system voltage is normal at 13.8 to 14.4 volts.Again, I would place the battery on an external charger and see if the charge current tapers off as the battery becomes fully charged. I'll leave to you whether you return the battery for another.

On installing the Maxi-Fuse, on a 69 the fusible link goes right from the 1/4 inch terminal on the starter relay into the bulkhead connector pin so it can be a bit of a challenge. A good automotive electrical shop should be able to pop the pin out of the connector and replace the pin with the new Maxi-Fuse attached. Perhaps they just didn't want to mess with it. The connector pins are called Packard 56 pins and you may be able to get them at NAPA. If for some reason the original fusible link blew you would have to replace it this way as well.

I do not agree with them that a continuous +20 amp at engine speed is normal. The battery current should taper off to near zero at some point. Either the battery is not fully charged, defective as in a shorted cell or there is some other wiring issue with the car.

[MaximRecoil]

On installing the Maxi-Fuse, on a 69 the fusible link goes right from the 1/4 inch terminal on the starter relay into the bulkhead connector pin so it can be a bit of a challenge. A good automotive electrical shop should be able to pop the pin out of the connector and replace the pin with the new Maxi-Fuse attached. Perhaps they just didn't want to mess with it. The connector pins are called Packard 56 pins and you may be able to get them at NAPA. If for some reason the original fusible link blew you would have to replace it this way as well.

I need to put a fusible link in mine; some previous owner put a regular piece of wire in there, probably 16 or 18 gauge, and they didn't even do a good job connecting it to the Packard 56 terminal. I have a proper crimping tool for open barrel terminals like that, but what gauge fusible link does it need? Is it a 10 gauge wire that connects to it on the other side? If so, I need a 14 gauge fusible link, which fortunately I can get at the local parts store (impossible to find a 12 gauge or bigger fusible link locally).

Also, do you know if the plastic connector housings for the bulkhead connector are available? I know you can buy the whole thing (for way too much money I might add), but I just need one of the three that push on from the engine compartment side of the firewall, because the genius that stuck in that regular wire in place of the fusible link also broke out the plastic surrounding that cavity, presumably while trying to get the Packard 56 terminal out of there, so that particular terminal no longer locks in place, it is just held in there by the friction of being inserted in the female terminal (which isn't much, I've had to push it back in a few times).

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

The fusible link was a blue 16 gauge link. The wiring it was connected to went to the ammeter as a #12 red wire.

That's kind of the issue that happened with field repairs, like people putting pennies behind the old plug house fuses, fusible links got replaced with plain old wire. That's one of the reasons I like to suggest Maxi-Fuses, you can get them almost anywhere. Even my local hardware store has them in those hardware tray assortments under automotive fuses.

I don't know about the plastic shells for the bulkhead connectors. I'm  sure at one time they were likely supplied by AMP or someone in the connector business like them. Perhaps someone else knows of a source.

[MaximRecoil]

Okay, I can get a 16 gauge fusible link locally too. In my car the charging circuit that goes through the bulkhead connector (ammeter bypassed in my case) doesn't get much current anyway, because I have a shunt wire going directly from the alternator post to the post on the starter relay (8 gauge with 12 gauge fusible link).

Were there any other fusible links in a '69 Charger from the factory, or is that 16 gauge one the only one?

[Pete in NH]

Just that one #16 gauge link as far as I know.

[Captain D]

As for my car - I 'think' that we finally got things straightened out. The old alternator was cranking out a whopping 90 amps and the old regulator that we put on last year appears to have been way too weak for it (and being non-electronic). And, the battery (being almost 5 years old) didn't help since, after being tested, it too was failing. Today, I pulled the 'new' battery and returned it to National Tire and Battery. I asked if they could test it and the battery not only failed, but failed miserably as defective.

I swapped it with a new one that was just produced last month vs. one made last year, installed it in the car, and fired it up. The great news is that now everything is functioning 100% better with a new 60 amp alternator, electronic regulator made to handle up to 65 amps, Interstate battery, and am having a tune up done w/ plugs and wires before the car leaves the shop tomorrow. As a side note, when I tested the car today before I went into work, the ammeter was reading just slightly to the right of the '0' both at idle and when revving up the engine as it is supposed to...finally!

The only thing that I wish that they would have done was to install my 60 Maxi-Fuse. They said that they couldn't get the installation assembly needed (or, as stated earlier in the thread, 'too lazy to do it,' which may have been the case), but I'll ask around to ensure that I get that in there as soon as possible. It feels good to finally wrap this stuff up - two weeks was a long time to be wrangling over this stuff,  . I'll be bringing the car home tomorrow morning, so we'll see how things go while on the road. Without doubt, I can't thank everyone enough for their willingness to lend me valuable knowledge, tips, suggestions - this site is amazing. When stuff like this happens, its always a learning experience and I will be sure to remember what I've learned. I hope that everything works out good and I can let you know how things go when we bring it home tomorrow.

Highest regards,
Aaron

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

Good to hear you finally have things worked out and that it was indeed a bad battery. With all the electrical issues behind you I hope you can enjoy driving your car!

[MaximRecoil]

I need to put a fusible link in mine; some previous owner put a regular piece of wire in there, probably 16 or 18 gauge, and they didn't even do a good job connecting it to the Packard 56 terminal.

That's kind of the issue that happened with field repairs, like people putting pennies behind the old plug house fuses, fusible links got replaced with plain old wire.

I fixed it for now. The plain old wire that was in there was spliced to a short section of the original fusible link. I didn't have a new Packard 56 terminal onhand, so I decided to reuse the original one. The problem was that it was still factory crimped onto that short remaining section of fusible link. So I drilled the wire strands out of the crimped area with a 1/16" bit, inserted the new fusible link, and then recrimped it with an open barrel crimping tool. Here's the result:



The rear open barrel tabs that are intended to be crimped around the insulation weren't long enough to crimp around the thick insulation of this new (16 AWG) fusible link, but whatever. The copper wire in the main crimp isn't going anywhere.

[MaximRecoil]

Just that one #16 gauge link as far as I know.

Thanks.

Why isn't there a fusible link located at the battery's positive terminal? That would practically eliminate the chance of a short happening in a section of the alternator-to-battery charging circuit that is unprotected by the fusible link (i.e., the 8 gauge wire between the starter relay and the battery).

In the car audio world, people with powerful amplifiers run 1/0 gauge wire out to their amplifier, and the rule of thumb is to put the fuse as close to the battery as possible, simply because it reduces the chances of a short happening in the section of wire before the fuse (which isn't protected by the fuse, obviously).

So I'm thinking you would have a safer setup if you put a 12 gauge fusible link directly at the battery's positive terminal, and butt-spliced it into the factory 8 gauge wire that goes to the starter relay, like so:



In my case I also have a shunt wire (8 gauge) going from the alternator post to the starter relay, and it currently has a 12 gauge fusible link at the starter relay, but no fusible link would be needed on that wire if there was one at the battery.

What do you think?

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

Yes, what you are suggesting certainly would be a safer system. It would offer some protection if something really bad happened in the alternator itself. Although I have to say it would take quite a high current to melt that 12 gauge link. The original #16 gauge link was an attempt at some form of minimal protection. That was 40 years ago. I think as time when on, the thinking on electrical system changed quite a bit to building in much more protection.

And yes, as you suggested with the example of installing big audio amps, it's always best to place the fuse protection as close to the battery or power source as possible in case something shorts to ground in the wiring.

[Captain D]

Great thread -

Thank you again Pete for taking the time to help me out!   I had the car out on the road the other day to attend a local event and everything functioned 100% just as it should have. I enjoy working on it, but I agree, nothing beats the open road hands down!  

As a side note, which remanufactured alternators have you  (or anyone as well) have had the most success with so far? In my search, my general area tends to get primarily Bosch and Driveworks for a 69' Charger. Ultimately, I may look into new vs. remanufactured perhaps but do you feel that either the remanufactured Bosch and/or Driveworks brands are worthwhile, by chance?

Thank you again for your time and I hope all is well over on your end,
Aaron

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

Actually over the years I've seen a lot of issues with re-manufactured alternators and starters to the point that I repair my own if I have a good core to work with. My 71 Charger still has its original starter and alternator on it. The alternator is on its third set of bearings and the starter has had new brushes and a new drive installed. So, I really don't have a lot of experience with current rebuilt units. Back in the day many police and taxi cars were Mopars and you always took a chance that your rebuild starter or alternator came off a car that was on the road 24/7 and had 150K miles on it and then got a fast sloppy rebuild job. So, I came to the conclusion if you had a good low mileage core rebuild it yourself and avoid that problem!

I would stick with well known names and avoid the chain store places like Autozone, etc.

[resq302]

I agree.  I tend to rebuild my own stuff now since the problem I had with the reman'd alternator that I had from A1 Cardone that had the pos. stud loosen up and start sparking.  Moparjohn also had an issue with his starter that he got from Autozone and that fried a good section of his wiring behind the alternator before it burned up the fuseable link.  We were about 3 hrs away from home when that happened and he has power windows and sunroof too.  Wouldn't you know it, thats when it decided to start raining.  At least him and my dad were out trying to get new wiring so I could splice in the fix for him.  Luckily Wes and Geri carry a good amount of spare parts with them and loaned it to John till he could get one in the next day at the local Napa.

[mhinders]

Just that one #16 gauge link as far as I know.

Thanks.

Why isn't there a fusible link located at the battery's positive terminal? That would practically eliminate the chance of a short happening in a section of the alternator-to-battery charging circuit that is unprotected by the fusible link (i.e., the 8 gauge wire between the starter relay and the battery).

In the car audio world, people with powerful amplifiers run 1/0 gauge wire out to their amplifier, and the rule of thumb is to put the fuse as close to the battery as possible, simply because it reduces the chances of a short happening in the section of wire before the fuse (which isn't protected by the fuse, obviously).

So I'm thinking you would have a safer setup if you put a 12 gauge fusible link directly at the battery's positive terminal, and butt-spliced it into the factory 8 gauge wire that goes to the starter relay, like so:

In my case I also have a shunt wire (8 gauge) going from the alternator post to the starter relay, and it currently has a 12 gauge fusible link at the starter relay, but no fusible link would be needed on that wire if there was one at the battery.

What do you think?

I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think the reason for not having a fuse or fusible link in the charging circuit is that it will blow the rectifier diodes if the circuit suddenly goes open. Something similar to an ignition coil, when you break the current you get the huge voltage spike (to the spark plugs in that case).
Maybe someone can tell us the exact theory behind it.

[MaximRecoil]

I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think the reason for not having a fuse or fusible link in the charging circuit is that it will blow the rectifier diodes if the circuit suddenly goes open. Something similar to an ignition coil, when you break the current you get the huge voltage spike (to the spark plugs in that case).
Maybe someone can tell us the exact theory behind it.

It actually does have a fusible link in the battery charging circuit from the factory (a 16 gauge one from the bulkhead connector to the starter relay stud), but it is somewhat in the middle of the charging circuit, leaving a significant section of the circuit unprotected. For example, if that 8 gauge wire that goes from the starter relay to the positive battery terminal shorts out, there is no protection there at all, and it could start a fire. If you splice a fusible link between the battery and that 8 gauge wire, you would then have protection for that ~half of the charging circuit.

[Pete in NH]

Hi Martin,

What you are referring to is called a "load Dump". The field rotor in an alternator creates a magnetic field that induces a voltage into the stator windings. As you point out like an ignition coil if you suddenly remove the load from the alternator this magnetic energy has to go somewhere and can create a high voltage in the now open stator windings. This is one reason why in modern cars with all their on board electronics you never want to disconnect the battery with the car running. The resulting voltage spike can damage some very expensive on board computers. There are some protective components build into modern automotive electronics to attempt to protect against this, but you can't always count on it. Even on our old cars, disconnecting the battery with the engine running is a good way to pop your electronic ignition box if you have one.

I would think if you were in the process of melting a 12 gauge fusible link , you already have big problems. The alternator may already have shorted diodes that are the cause of the link melting or if not is sourcing a lot of current that will heat up the diodes and may melt them. The heat sinking on alternator diodes is relative small and depends on a lot of air moving by them. Huge current demands will likely push the diode cooling beyond its limits.

[mhinders]

Thanks for the explanation Pete. 
Good to hear I'm not always lost in the woods... 

[MaximRecoil]

I would think if you were in the process of melting a 12 gauge fusible link , you already have big problems.

Yes, like a car accident which results in some sheet metal pinching through that 8 gauge starter relay-to-battery charging wire. That's going to pull several hundred amps very quickly and will likely catch the insulation on fire before melting through the conductor. A car accident is bad enough, a fire makes it worse. Fusible links are only intended for worst case scenarios like that, simply to protect the wire so it doesn't catch on fire such as in the event of it getting clamped directly to ground somehow. It doesn't matter that it takes a lot of current to melt a 12 gauge fusible link, it only matters that it takes a lot less current to melt it than it does to melt the wire it is protecting, which is why the fusible link is always 4 gauges smaller than the wire it is protecting, and has special insulation designed to not catch on fire.