Now-Why in the HE__ hasn't Chrysler done this?

[GeneralLeeTESH]

http://www.hppcars.com/vehicles/daytona.aspx

[JB400]

Because they wouldn't sell many.  I wouldn't mind though.  It's a Challenger.    Change the nose back and lose the wing.

[moparstuart]

ugly

[GeneralLeeTESH]

I truly believe these cars-set up properly for racing could ONCE Again "Open-Up a Can of Whoop-Ass" at NASCAR (NATIONAL Stock Car)...leave all other foreigners out of the competition of course. 

[pettybird]

I truly believe these cars-set up properly for racing could ONCE Again "Open-Up a Can of Whoop-Ass" at NASCAR (NATIONAL Stock Car)...leave all other foreigners out of the competition of course. 

That's because you and djcarguy live in an alternate reality where silly things somehow make sense. 

[Lighthorseman]

WHY must these abominations keep getting posted up?   

[Aero426]

Why does it say Duktona on your car?   Isn't it Duketona? 

[Indygenerallee]

Duk,Duk.... GOOSE!!! (sorry could resist the urge) 

[Highbanked Hauler]

Because they wouldn't sell many.  I wouldn't mind though.  It's a Challenger.    Change the nose back and lose the wing.

     Just that, they wouldn't sell many and Chrysler got a financial spanking the last time they tried that one off situation.   Like Stu said, people think they are ugly and they thought they were the last time too.  I personally don't think they would have sold many  426 Hemis if they didn't have to say it was a street engine

[GOTWING]

they could have at least done this to the FOUR DOOR Charger.

[held1823]

because it makes people want to...

[Daytona R/T SE]

Because it looks like shit.

[areibel]

And the big reason- NASCAR wouldn't allow it.  Their new mentality is all the bodies will be the same, engines will be based on the manufacturer's (with matching decals on the body) and the most popular drivers will be given enough leeway to win so they have some chance of holding on to what fan base NASCAR has remaining.

I think they should go the other way- Leave the Sprint cup as is for the big money guys and let them continue to shrink until they reach the same viewership as F1 or Indy racing.  Who cares?  But make a new class for any previous US produced car.  Use any past body style (reproductions allowed as long as it's stock), integrate all the new safety features as possible.  Establish a minimum weight, Limit the rear gear, all motors will be 6 liter or less (destroked OK) and all will run the same sized carb.  That would let more real racing and get some interest back.  Imagine a race with a Hudson Hornet vs. Superbird vs. Olds Cutlass, I think it would be cool!

[A383Wing]

Because it looks like shit.

yup

[moparstuart]

And the big reason- NASCAR wouldn't allow it.  Their new mentality is all the bodies will be the same, engines will be based on the manufacturer's (with matching decals on the body) and the most popular drivers will be given enough leeway to win so they have some chance of holding on to what fan base NASCAR has remaining.

I think they should go the other way- Leave the Sprint cup as is for the big money guys and let them continue to shrink until they reach the same viewership as F1 or Indy racing.  Who cares?  But make a new class for any previous US produced car.  Use any past body style (reproductions allowed as long as it's stock), integrate all the new safety features as possible.  Establish a minimum weight, Limit the rear gear, all motors will be 6 liter or less (destroked OK) and all will run the same sized carb.  That would let more real racing and get some interest back.  Imagine a race with a Hudson Hornet vs. Superbird vs. Olds Cutlass, I think it would be cool!

Never happen but a cool idea 

[A383Wing]

I heard or read some time ago that if a Daytona body was put on today's Nascar engine & frame, average speed around Daytona or Talladega would be 235+ per lap

Bryan

[BB1]

I like them a lot. 

[68X426]

Because it looks like shit.

yup

yup x2.

Because that is the ugliest front grill in history.





Well not as ugly as this grill but still too ugly.

[Aero426]

I heard or read some time ago that if a Daytona body was put on today's Nascar engine & frame, average speed around Daytona or Talladega would be 235+ per lap

Bryan

The current cars if unrestricted would also run very quick.   The Daytona is a very balanced race car, but it is quite large with a more vertical windshield and has a lot of air to push.    

You got more HP now,  better tire technology,  way better shock technology, less weight to push.  

Think of it this way.   The current cars are running 40 mph (!) faster qualifying speeds at Michigan compared to when my car got the pole there (with no plate) in 1972.    That to me is amazing.

[GeneralLeeTESH]

STU-
You have enough cars in the Kansas Wrecking Yard you own to START a new type of REAL U.S. manufacturer car racing don't you ?
We could call it "STUCAR"   !!!            

[Golden-Arm]

because unlike anyone that thinks these look good, or this would be a good idea, they're not complete and total morons?

[wingcar]

Actually, if they had shaped the leading edge of the nose more like the actual Daytona and Superbird it might (a big might)have looked better.   With that point and the "smiling" grille..it just looks dumb.   A painted grille would go a long way in making it look somewhat better.   Saw one on display at last year's SEMA show and it don't look to bad.....the color makes all the difference. 

In an interview on NASCAR Radio, Charlie Glotzbach said he was turning 240+ while testing the wingcars.  When asked about their "advantage" on the track....said they were just a little better....mainly they handled better.   Obviously the development cars were a little bit "more" special then their racing brothers.   These Challenger wingcars are "special" as well....but perhaps not in a positive way.....

Chrysler wouldn't be able to sell the winged Challengers and NASCAR wouldn't let them on the track (they have been there done that...never again)

[DAY CLONA]

I heard or read some time ago that if a Daytona body was put on today's Nascar engine & frame, average speed around Daytona or Talladega would be 235+ per lap

Bryan

The current cars if unrestricted would also run very quick.   The Daytona is a very balanced race car, but it is quite large with a more vertical windshield and has a lot of air to push.    

You got more HP now,  better tire technology,  way better shock technology, less weight to push.  

Think of it this way.   The current cars are running 40 mph (!) faster qualifying speeds at Michigan compared to when my car got the pole there (with no plate) in 1972.    That to me is amazing.

Although technology advancement has given the "new" NASCAR cars amazing performance,  a current Cup chassis still averages  a .40 CD, the Toyota Camary and the LX Charger platform are the most slippery at .33, yet the 69 Daytona has .29 slippery silhouette, so imagine that chassis with current technology?

[Mike DC]

    
The bottom line is that NASCAR feels that 200mph is fast enough.  If the cars can do 230mph right now then NASCAR will restrict away 30mph.  If the cars start doing 250 next year then NASCAR will restrict away 50mph.  



The '69 Daytona was an awesome patch-job to improve what was basically a terrible platform (body shape).  They did a great job balancing their downforce & drag reductions and making major gains with just a few targeted changes.  

The wing car designers also stumbled into some major stability benefits from the wing stabilizers purely by accident.  IMHO we probably underestimate how much that did to make the cars win races.  It made the cars not only faster but also more friendly to being pushed to their limits than stock.  That is very relevant to winning races when you are driving the fastest cars in motorsports and they suddenly gain a bunch more speed & cornering grip overnight.  



The current cars would benefit from that kind of special customizing treatment too.  But they would not improve as much as the Daytonas did.  In terms of aero gains, the current cars already have the low-hanging fruit picked off by the factory bodystyle designers way back at the clay model stage.  

 

[Ghoste]

They look pretty good for cartoon cars but I'll tell you what, I bet they can't beat that Lightning McQueen, that old boy is faaaaaast.

[Daytona Guy]

To me the wing is too blocky at the bottom and it is too tall. The nose is a mess and too busy. Just becuase you are a car builder does not mean you are a car designer. The big boy designers and engineers at Ma Mopar are in teams, with checks and ballences.

Dane

[Brutalowner]

I don't know.... Put it into production, sell ARCA on the acceptance (those guys are the blood and guts racers anyway) let the teams fine tune the aero like they already do to the current shapes. Actually organize a program for the Gen III Hemi and sell the brand/driver combo, NOT just the driver. 
Win on Sunday.....   I know, not realistic. But it worked up until 40 years ago, and the by product was some kick a## cars that we all get together on forums like this and still talk about, build and cherish today. JMHO.
 

[tracpack440]

The rear spoiler is way too big.

[A383Wing]

Just becuase you are a car builder does not mean you are a car designer. The big boy designers and engineers at Ma Mopar are in teams, with checks and ballences.

Dane

wasn't the original Daytona designed on a table napkin somewhere?

Bryan

[Ghoste]

A rough sketch to suggest the idea, yes.

[hotrod98]

If Dodge built 500 of these cars and had a hard time selling all of them because people thought they were ugly, then 40 years from now they would be worth a fortune and there would be a forum where people would talk about how great they are and some people would be trying to build clones of them.

[Ghoste]

You could very well be right.

[Highbanked Hauler]

If Dodge built 500 of these cars and had a hard time selling all of them because people thought they were ugly, then 40 years from now they would be worth a fortune and there would be a forum where people would talk about how great they are and some people would be trying to build clones of them.

    40 years from now they will be putting aftermarket anti-gravity kits in electric hover buggy's and I for one  won't be hear to see it.

[odcics2]

If Dodge built 500 of these cars and had a hard time selling all of them because people thought they were ugly, then 40 years from now they would be worth a fortune and there would be a forum where people would talk about how great they are and some people would be trying to build clones of them.

BINGO !   

[Ghoste]

On the other hand, maybe they really are ugly this time and if Dodge built 500 of them they would sell around 10 and forty five years form now people would be laughing at them still and saying it was by far the stupidest thing Dodge had ever done.

There is just know way to know for sure.

[Mike DC]

The mid-60s altered-wheelbase B-bodies have fans and value now.  IMHO that indicates there's no limit where the car becomes too ugly.
 

[Ghoste]

Ah but its still impossible to predict the tastes of the future.

[held1823]

The mid-60s altered-wheelbase B-bodies have fans and value now.  IMHO that indicates there's no limit where the car becomes too ugly.
 

these are ugly?

[Ghoste]

I'm sure they are to some.  How were they perceived in their day?

[pettybird]

they were the first funny cars, and people loved them.

[moparstuart]

they were the first funny cars, and people loved them.

  i still do 

[Ghoste]

So are we largely in agreement then that only the wing cars were seen as ugly by the general buying public back in the day?

[70moparman]

Its not like Chrysler hasn't made worse before...  Dodge Neon, Dodge Omni, PT Cruisers, 4 door chargers, and let us not forget the K car...  Oh wait, lets try to forget that one actually...   

[1974dodgecharger]

when the daytons and superbirds first came out they were considered UGLY/RADICAL at the time also in fact some dealers couldnt even sell it and had it sitting on their showroom floor for 3 years to 4 years until finally someone purchased it or the owner of the dealership purchased it outright. 

Whats not hot at the time can be hot later on hence the wing cars

[held1823]

i'll agree that the plymouths were a different animal, but does someone have evidence that daytonas sat on dealer lots for an abnormal amount of time? i know that the dealership ours came from, Farthing Sales, in Rushville, Indiana, could have sold every daytona that they could gotten. Farthing was the definition of a tiny dealership, and Rushville is a small, off the beaten path town, far away from the nascar fan base at the time.

I think that the insurance companies played a huge role in superbird sales. a superbird was also not the "bargain" that the daytona package was. both of these factors, combined with there being four times as many superbirds to sell as there were daytonas, played more of a role in moving them off the lot, as did any public perception.

[Mike DC]

these are ugly?

Yes.

Not uncool, but definitely ugly.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

So are we largely in agreement then that only the wing cars were seen as ugly by the general buying public back in the day?

I would say yes, but Superbirds and Daytonas were built with a purpose; to win races. These altered Challengers are built with no purpose other than finding suckers to buy them.

[Ghoste]

Exactly.