Please Review the work I had done

[gsniegow]

Apologies for the long post, but I need your expert advice...

Last month I had a compression test done on my car in order to determine if the engine was healthy enough to invest in the top end.  I don't have the results with me, but I was told that the bottom end was healthy enough for a top end rebuild.

The car:  '69 Charger with a stock 383

Initial Dyno Pull:  199.31 Max Power and 247.13 Max Torque

Work performed:
* Edlebrock Top End Kit (Heads, cam, lifters, intake manifold, etc.)  (I know cam wasn't ideal choice)
* Quick Fuel SS-830 carb
* TCI 727 Break Away Torque Converter 2400 - 2600 stall
* Motive 3.91 Ring & Pinion (installed in the 8.75 489 casting)
* TTI 1 3/4" headers
* 440 Source 1.5 Rocker Arms (I know, may not be the best)
* 440 Source pushrods (I know, may not be the best)
* Replaced Main Bearings
* Strange Engineering 29 Spline Yolk
* MSD 6AL box
* New MSD Blaster 2 coil
* other misc parts

I know some of the parts may not be considered the best choice by many of you.  Some were last second chocies based off of time and budget constraints. 

I was given the car back before they replaced the old Blaster 2 coil I had.  They claimed my old one died whil in the dyno. 

Dyno numbers given to me after all of the above work came in at 243.40 Max Power and 260.30 Max Torque.  That's a pitiful gain of 44.09 Max Power and 13.17 Max Torque.

They are giving me one more pull sometime soon as they replaced the coil that died on the last pull.  BTW that last pull the coil died around 5,250 RPM.  There may have been more to get but I can't imagine it would be that much.

Sicne getting the car back I did notice that they did NOT cap off the vacuum advance nipple on the carb.  I have done that and the car performs MUCH better.

Other than that, something just seems wrong.  No, I did not expect to receive a race car back but the performance gained certainly does not justify the expense I paid in my opinion.  Does this sound right to you all?  If so, please tell me and I will shut up.  If not, is there anything I should be looking at that maybe they did wrong?

Another question is in regards to the 3.91 gear.  That was an upgrade from a 3.23 gear that was there.  I notice that the car seems to "whine" now while driving normal state.  Is that to be expected?  If so, that's fine I will live with it.  If not, could you shed some insight as well?

I tried to determine the mufflers that are on the car but there is no branding on them that I can see.  My guess is they are cheap and very restrictive.  Now that I have made the intake better is it possible that my mufflers are killing me on the exhaust side?  If so, by how much do you think?  My bank account run dry, but if two mufflers and installation is what is holding her back, I just might have to see what I can do.  Any input is valued.

My apologies for such a long post.  I'm guessing there is more info needed as well.  If so, please ask away and I will do my best to respond. 

[68X426]

The experts will weigh in soon, but I'll toss out some obvious items to consider:

is the carb tuned properly? is the fuel pump up to the task? correct plugs? what about the timing? In other words, the motor may need a solid tune-up, and correct timing, to complete the package and get the full potential out of the work already done.

[cdr]

your dyno # stock is a little low,some dyno's read lower than others,but the gain is not all that bad,i would say get some magna flo,or dyno max welded mufflers,it is very possible you have crappy mufflers,the rear end whine with after market gears is pretty normal,as long as its not REAL loud.

charlie

[Cooter]

All those brand new Aluminum goodies can hurt the wallet for sure. You didn't mention what year 383, or if it actually IS a 1969 383, if it was a factory "HP" engine, or some Big Chrysler 383 that granny drove. Was it rebuilt before with some Rebuilder pistons that caused the compression to actually be lowered with those Eddy heads?

[69wannabe]

I had a fresh built 383 in my charger for awhile and put a set of 452's with oversize valves in the heads and it actually seem like it lost power. I had a rpm intake on it and a extreme energy 274 comp cam in it and before the head swap it was a good running engine. After a few months of trying to make it run better I pulled the heads back off and put the 346's with stock valves back on it and the mopar dual plane intake back on it. I later put the other heads on the 440 that went into the car much later. I believe the 440's take better to some of these big power add on's than the B engines do. I may be wrong but the big heads on my 383 didn't work for me. The dyno numbers aint that bad really since the torqueflight take alloy of HP to turn it and brings the numbers down quite a bit and you lose a lot since the car is so long too

[gsniegow]

This is the original motor to the car, so it is a '69 383 but NOT a HP version.

As for tunning, the shop supposedly tunned the car.  Supposedly the timing is set to 34.  Plugs are new as well. 

I do not believe ANY work was done to the motor since 1969!  LOL - OK, I'm sure some was but I do not believe that the bottom end was touched at all.  I suppose static compression might be my issue, I don't know.  I have a list of items to be addressed so hopefully we can sort this out and my next pull shows much better numbers.  I have read quite a bit on the mufflers effect on power.  While I do not think it's the silver bullet for me, I do think there is some decent gains to be made. 

Yeah, this hobby is a money pit! 

[firefighter3931]

This is the original motor to the car, so it is a '69 383 but NOT a HP version.

If the original motor is the 2bbl 383 then yes static compression is an issue ! 

With low static compression and a cam that is too big for the combination you will have low cylinder pressure and less than ideal results. 

I'm sure it's overcammed based on the modest increase in torque comparing the before and after numbers. 

The horsepower increase is a product of the increased cylinder head flow but my guess is that the volumetric efficiency at peak torque is low which is hurting the real wheel tq number.


Ron

[Kern Dog]

I am surprised to see that you decided to put the time and money into a stock original short block!
The 1969 383 2 barrel has a realistic compression ratio of around 9 to 1. This is with the factory .020 head gasket. Chances are, your replacement gasket is double that. You may be in the 8.5 to 1 ratio. That number with aluminum heads will be down on torque. Your 3.91 gear will help with that to some extent.

The fix for this isn't cheap, but isn't something you need to do right away. You need higher compression pistons. You can safely run 10 to 1 compression if everything is properly built around the ratio. By that I mean the proper camshaft, ignition, cooling system and 91 or higher octane.

[gsniegow]

I am surprised to see that you decided to put the time and money into a stock original short block!

I actually was unaware of the compression difference, that was a BIG mistake on my part.  It's also something I would have hoped the shop would have told me.  Sadly they specialize in modern cars and GM cars.  Lesson learned...

This was step one of two in my bigger picture plan.  That plan is what allot of us want, the 440 stoker motor.  When I priced that build out, in parts alone I had blown through my budget by quite a bit.  So there was no way to do that.  As you can tell from the initial dyno pull, the old setup was just terrible.  To the point where I hated to even drive the car as these little punks in their stock Honda Civics were kicking my butt.  So I figured this year I would invest in parts which I could transfer over to the stroker motor whenever that happens.  That would allow me to enjoy my car a little more now and take a large step in my future build.  I know, I don't make allot of sense, allot of people tell me that.  I just knew if I put the money on the side other things would come up and ultimately I would not have that money down the road.   That would have left me with a crappy engine and no money.  This way I spent it and I am enjoying the car far more than before.  Is it making the numbers I was expecting?  No.  But it is considerably better than what I had.  I am hoping later this year to acquire a 440 block and slowly work on the bottom end.  Then all these goodies will be transferred over.  If all goes according to plan.  

I do believe there is more to be had from this setup as well.  I am working with the shop to get another pull with the new ignition coil.  Their last pull cut off around 5,250 RPM's.  That cam should have more power left in it so maybe my numbers will go up slightly still.  If not, well, I still enjoy her a hell of allot more than I did before.  But I'm betting working on the next setup may pick up in priority too!    

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

[cdr]

WHEN you do build a new engine i would suggest do a 400 low deck block stroker,,ie 470.493,or 511 cid,you will have mor hood clearance,& everything you have will fit.   

charlie 

[SRT-440]

Since ur compression is prolly low...(I'd do a compression test on the cylinders to see what's up)..I'd just put a supercharger on it...u'll make up the lost HP. 

[Brass]

Sorry to hear about your troubles – I know what disappointment feels like.  You could run boost but keep in mind that is a stock bottom end with 44 year old parts.  Too much and you risk the original engine.  I agree with cdr; get a low deck 400 to stroke.  Only I would keep it to 451 or 470. Most of your parts will fit (I'd change that cam anyway) and it would be lighter than a 440 too.  In the meantime, drive and enjoy!

[XH29N0G]

......In the meantime, drive and enjoy!

I did something not all that different from you with a 70 HP 383, but different cam (less duration) and smaller carb.  It picked up, but not a whole lot.  The biggest change came from the gears.  They were not noticeably noisy after the swap, but people did tell me that the might be.  After that, I had the engine rebuilt and stroked to 452 ci. using the heads and intake, but a carb like the one you describe.  I have not yet driven it, but will look at it tomorrow.  I enjoyed it after making those changes and now am hoping to enjoy it more, after saving up money to fix it up.  I had put this car in storage at my parents in 1987 with hopes of 'eventually' fixing it up and had been saving for real for real since 2002 before I could start for real on the work.  Now it is almost there.  So I second the drive and enjoy, and add a 'your plan will probably work out in the end'.  I almost went the way of a stroked 400 and probably should've, but I am happy that I chose to do what I did.

[gsniegow]

Feeling a bit better, brought the car back for them to complete the dyno tune.  Numbers are a bit better.  Far better than it was a couple months back.  Now to start saving again for step 2!

Anyway, thanks all for the feedback and help thus far.

[firefighter3931]

Very nice....40hp is a significant increase 

They must have leaned out the jetting....it was probably too "fat" before 



Ron

[cdr]

so 84 hp gain from the stock set up,that is very good for your stock low comp,short block 

[2Luke2]

so 84 hp gain from the stock set up,that is very good for your stock low comp,short block 

Agreed! Nice job!