Busted fan and radiator, why did this happen?

[bill440rt]

Thanks again for all the comments.

Bill thanks for the links, I'll get those parts as well.

Don't go out & buy a clutch just yet, Dino. Wait until you get the radiator and you know how much clearance you have. 
With a 26" rad and a clutch fan you might need a "short shaft" clutch. The MP 4704 units have just a slightly longer stem which places it closer to the rad.
The fan clutch is about 3/4" or so away from the rad in my '68. Core thickness is the same as stock. Tight, but it does clear. It's been on there for a while with no issues. I have a short shaft clutch that I'll be swapping in soon for peace of mind, though.
The Griffin rads are VERY nice, but thicker than stock so the 4704 clutch would not fit in my '69 so I went with electric fans.

[ws23rt]

I feel the need to add two more cents to this topic. If there is too little clearance between the fan and the radiator than the risk of damage from a small front end  hit is high. The engine mounts flex and I have had radiator damage from a rather small impact. 3/4 in should be good enough with motor mounts firm.
I have also seen a curved slot in a hood where a fan blade came through.

[ACUDANUT]

When my fan ate my radiator it was from a worn out Bushing in the water pump. My 70 Charger has 4.11 ( ? ) rear gears and at highway speeds, it rev's at over 4K RPM's at 60 miles per hour. It's a 1963, 426 wedge 4-speed.

[Dino]

Alright, the radiator is being repaired so I'm keeping it.  It's the '71 c body rad and I would like to know if these are the same thicknes as the '69 b body rads.  Which thermal clutch is recommended to ensure I have plenty space away from the radiator so I can fit the shroud I have yet to find?  

Is there a clutch/fan kit available at local parts stores?  Don't care for originallity but I would like to get something good.

This is for an a/c car btw.

[Cooter]

Will offer one more tidbit of info. here. A word of caution. Never try and run a "junkyard" fan clutch. I did and the same thing happened. Clutch was who knows how old, and bushing or something was worn, when the R's hit real high, tink,tink,tink,scrape! Not good ona like new radiator. Sucked big time.

Yes, Dino, Parts stores will have some fan clutches, but you need to wait till you have measured the clearance to your radiator core as you might need a Clutch which is very shallow.

[Dino]

Ah good to know junkyard fan is not an option as I thought it was.   

I dropped off my radiator last night at a small rad shop that has been in town for near 50 years.  Today I get a call just before I leave work that it's ready to pick up.  They brazed the gash, cleaned the entire thing in and out and repainted it, all for the whopping sum of $45!  I had no idea people did anything for that amount anymore!   

I'll drop the rad in tomorrow and post the measurement.

[Cooter]

Careful Dino....Not to worry you, but I too have radiators "Repaired" that way, and you wouldn't believe how many times I've seen the tubes completely soldered shut. Will it leak? No, but that's not the point. I could take out all the cores that are damaged and it won't leak, but it won't cool properly either.

Since your shop has been around for years, hopefully, they are better at repairs than the older gentleman that everybody yhere said was a "Wizzard" with radiators...I ended up buying a new one.

[Dino]

Careful Dino....Not to worry you, but I too have radiators "Repaired" that way, and you wouldn't believe how many times I've seen the tubes completely soldered shut. Will it leak? No, but that's not the point. I could take out all the cores that are damaged and it won't leak, but it won't cool properly either.

Since your shop has been around for years, hopefully, they are better at repairs than the older gentleman that everybody yhere said was a "Wizzard" with radiators...I ended up buying a new one.

I had the exact same concern but when I removed the rad from the car and stuck a hose in it, the stream coming out the gash was surprisingly small.  The gash was about 3/8" long and right on the edge of two tubes.  I know how to weld but have only brazed once and it didn't look all that bad all of a sudden.  Once I saw this nice, smooth braze I was content, I think it'll be fine.  I'll keep a good eye on the temp gauge though, not to worry.

Oh and I looked into the rad and it has a three row core so I guess it's thicker than the 055?

What distance would the actual fan have to be from the rad to make a stock shroud work?  That is assuming I can find one...

[Cooter]

What distance would the actual fan have to be from the rad to make a stock shroud work?  That is assuming I can find one...

I like to give even the Clutch fans a little "Wiggle room" to move around. (The blades will move a little under max cooling when clutch is locked)
I like to see anywhere from around 3/4"-1". No more than that from the core as the clutch needs Heat in order to work properly. I've seen fan clutches as far as 2 1/4" from the core, and worked ok.

You need to make sure you have at least 3/4" clearance from the core. Shroud can be made to fit from other cars like Fords, if you cannot find the correct one at a junkyard.. I'm running an old Ford LTD shroud on the GL and works fine. All it does is direct air flow.

[bill440rt]

Dino, do you know the thickness of the core? Mine is a 3-row as well. Do you know the numbers off the top of the rad?

"IF" you can find a new, unused TRW FC-28 clutch then snag it. They have been disco'd for a while, but sometimes you might get lucky at an older parts store. They are identical to the original Mopar short-shaft units which have been long out of production. The "4704" clutch superceded these units. The stem is a little longer but will clear the rad by 3/4" or so.
Personally I'm not a fan of the Jaguar units that some people use, as from what I've heard the mount on the water pump is not wide enough to clear the mount bolts fully so washers are needed.

Put the rad in the car, take a measurement from the water pump mounting face to the radiator core. Let us know the measurements. 

[Dino]

Dino, do you know the thickness of the core? Mine is a 3-row as well. Do you know the numbers off the top of the rad?

"IF" you can find a new, unused TRW FC-28 clutch then snag it. They have been disco'd for a while, but sometimes you might get lucky at an older parts store. They are identical to the original Mopar short-shaft units which have been long out of production. The "4704" clutch superceded these units. The stem is a little longer but will clear the rad by 3/4" or so.
Personally I'm not a fan of the Jaguar units that some people use, as from what I've heard the mount on the water pump is not wide enough to clear the mount bolts fully so washers are needed.

Put the rad in the car, take a measurement from the water pump mounting face to the radiator core. Let us know the measurements. 

Thanks Bill, I'll check for that clutch, I do have a store or two with old stock around.

The radiator # is 3443953 off of a '71 c-body.

A member here has the MP vicious kit for sale I am interested in, just need to make sure I have plenty clearance.

Measurement to follow!

[Dino]

The gap between rad and the grey thing is about 2" and about 3.5" to the pulley.

[bill440rt]

Dino, if you're going to run a clutch fan you'll have to ditch that spacer.
Looks like you have a pretty thick rad core, I can see the thickness at the bottom tank. The "4704" clutch might not be an option, it is 3-1/4" in height.
There was a guy on the '70 'site that had several FC-28 clutches (I think his I.D. is dealer demo?). That's where I got mine from. They are getting hard to find, too. You might want to try contacting him?
If I can get to my '68 over the weekend I will get some pics of the "4704" clutch/rad setup clearance in my car. 

Edit:
Yes, his handle is dealer demo. Read here:
http://www.1970chargerregistry.com/mboard/index.php?topic=1486.0

[Dino]

Spacer...I could've come up with that...but I didn't.   

Yeah I need this clutch at least 3/4" from the rad so the clutch can be no more than 2 3/4" thick.

So since I have a spacer, I have pretty long fan bolts, do the clutches typically come with bolts or do I need to get anything special?

I found one of the fc-28 clutches on ebay, but I just can't spend $400 on this.  $50 is more in line.

I'm assuming the MP vicious won't work here?

[bill440rt]

These are the fan bolts:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/64-74-Mopar-A-B-C-E-Body-Cuda-Dart-Road-Runner-Correct-Fan-Clutch-Pulley-Bolts-/400494340050?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d3f52a7d2&vxp=mtr

The seller of that fc28 clutch is known for prices into the stratosphere. You'd be better off looking elsewhere.
The MP viscous won't work, the clutch that comes with it is the longer 4704 unit, and the fan itself never clears the shroud at least in my experience with it.

[Dino]

These are the fan bolts:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/64-74-Mopar-A-B-C-E-Body-Cuda-Dart-Road-Runner-Correct-Fan-Clutch-Pulley-Bolts-/400494340050?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d3f52a7d2&vxp=mtr

The seller of that fc28 clutch is known for prices into the stratosphere. You'd be better off looking elsewhere.
The MP viscous won't work, the clutch that comes with it is the longer 4704 unit, and the fan itself never clears the shroud at least in my experience with it.

Hmm, what about that Hayden 2765 clutch?  Those are less than 3" I believe.  There's a small Carquest not far from me, in a small village.  They have loads of old stock so I'll check with them first to see what they have.   

[ACUDANUT]

I don't think you need a spacer with a viscous fan package.  Shrouds ? what shrouds I have never needing one. 

[A383Wing]

I got one of my fan clutches from Car Quest years ago

Bryan

[Back N Black]

These are the fan bolts:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/64-74-Mopar-A-B-C-E-Body-Cuda-Dart-Road-Runner-Correct-Fan-Clutch-Pulley-Bolts-/400494340050?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d3f52a7d2&vxp=mtr

The seller of that fc28 clutch is known for prices into the stratosphere. You'd be better off looking elsewhere.
The MP viscous won't work, the clutch that comes with it is the longer 4704 unit, and the fan itself never clears the shroud at least in my experience with it.

Hmm, what about that Hayden 2765 clutch?  Those are less than 3" I believe.  There's a small Carquest not far from me, in a small village.  They have loads of old stock so I'll check with them first to see what they have.   

i have the Hayden clutch with stock fan and no issues so far.

[Dino]

I'll have the Hayden clutch tonight and a Hayden 18" 6 blade fan tomorrow.  The guy at the store said the blades themselves are aluminum.  The hub is steel.  Of course I don't have to take it if I don't like it.  When I look at the fan on Summit it says I have to use a spacer but shouldn't it bolt up directly to the clutch without?  Should I not get this due to the blades being aluminum or will it be okay?

Not sure which of these it is...

http://www.summitracing.com/compare

[Cooter]

I'll have the Hayden clutch tonight and a Hayden 18" 6 blade fan tomorrow.  The guy at the store said the blades themselves are aluminum.  The hub is steel.  Of course I don't have to take it if I don't like it.  When I look at the fan on Summit it says I have to use a spacer but shouldn't it bolt up directly to the clutch without?  Should I not get this due to the blades being aluminum or will it be okay?

Not sure which of these it is...

http://www.summitracing.com/compare

Dino, No clutch fan will use a spacer unless it's in some oddball set up like trucks/vans/Industrial, etc. I think you'll be ok with the Hayden set up. I couldn't remember the name of it to save me.

[ACUDANUT]

Yep, clutch fan do not use spacers.

[Hemidog]

Dino, was it this 18" one you went for? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-3618

Let me know what you decide, I'm trying to find a original all-steel one, but it is not easy or cheap.

[tan top]

 have a look on the hayden site , gives all the dimentions on all their  fan clutches      

  http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/HaydenAuto/Documents/Cat_Hayden/2007-hayden-fan-clutch.pdf

[Dino]

Dino, was it this 18" one you went for? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-3618

Let me know what you decide, I'm trying to find a original all-steel one, but it is not easy or cheap.

Yeah I think so.  The link I posted has that one and the 3620 and I think the 3618 is the one for mopars.  I'll have it tonight or tomorrow, depends when I get home.  I saw a few original ones but I'm wondering if it's wise to run a 40+ year old fan.  I sure hope this one doesn't blow up as well!

Thanks Tan!  That's good info to have. 

I'll keep you guys posted.  I'm also removing the old heater hose nipples from the wp housing so I can plug them until the heater and a/c controls are installed.  One came out easily, the other will need a few more gallons of pb blaster it seems.  The plugs I need are 3/8" right?