Paintless Dent repair pros and cons

[beedees]

Anybody ?

[twodko]

Wow, a timely question. I am waiting for my 94 Blazer to be delivered by a local company called Dent Dynamics & Detailing. I heard about from them from the shop that painted my Charger. .........

Well, the guy just dropped the truck of and it looks great! The truck had probably 10 dings on various panels none of which were bigger than a quarter or deeper than 1/4". Also there were no cracks in the paint.....real important because "dent repair" can't fix that. So to remove all those dings, clay bar, wax, buff and detail the truck top to bottom was $400. They picked it up and brought it back. This price didn't include any interior detailing.

[ws23rt]

Wow, a timely question. I am waiting for my 94 Blazer to be delivered by a local company called Dent Dynamics & Detailing. I heard about from them from the shop that painted my Charger. .........

Well, the guy just dropped the truck of and it looks great! The truck had probably 10 dings on various panels none of which were bigger than a quarter or deeper than 1/4". Also there were no cracks in the paint.....real important because "dent repair" can't fix that. So to remove all those dings, clay bar, wax, buff and detail the truck top to bottom was $400. They picked it up and brought it back. This price didn't include any interior detailing.

This is good timing. I put my  in another thread about this topic. My question to you is are you happy with the repair? And also can you tell in the right light reflection that a repair was done. I learned some techniques from the internet and am very happy with what I learned. I repaired a golf ball dent in a flat panel (the toughest ) and have to point out the repair to others.
Our eyes can see the slightest flaw but usually only when it is pointed out.
In my case refinishing a deck lid could have been X times expensive and I enjoyed learning something new. What I learned was how to do it and special tooling depends on access to the back of the panel. (made my own tools easy)
The pro is Fun to learn or maybe best way back to where you were. The con is there is no miracle to be had. Our eyes are too good to miss the slightest flaw.

[Silver R/T]

You can't completely remove dent. Wherever there's dent it means metal has been stretched and you can't completely push it back out. Sure it can look good from 5-10 feet away but there's still imperfections. If you have car with bunch of dents and you want to get rid of it quickly then go ahead and have dents removed. If you;re keeping the car and want it nice then do it right, have bodyman repair it.

[twodko]

All true

[bill440rt]

Wow, a timely question.

You ain't kiddin!
I just had PDR performed on my '11 Ram, today this afternoon! I was trailering my car to the Greenwich Concours this past Saturday, when something flew over the divider from the opposite side of the highway hitting my hood & then bouncing off my windshield.     It was white, looked like a golf ball but was softer like rubber. Windshield was OK, but had a nice tennis ball-sized dent in my hood with a slight crease. NOT HAPPY.     And, making matters worse, the hood is aluminum which is MUCH harder to work with than steel.
I've seen this guy's work before, he is awesome. Came right to my house. He was here for about 1-hr & a half. Hood looks PERFECT.    NO holes drilled to the underside, either.

A PDR guy who is GOOD and knows what he is doing can really do a good job. First job I saw him do was a white Volvo plastered with hail dents on the roof and deck lid, there had to be at least 100-150 of them. The car looked damn perfect when he was done, there were NO signs of dents.

I had some PDR done on two other vehicles. The first job came out perfect. NO signs of previous damage. The second time on another vehicle was on a quarter panel, in a tough area so that guy couldn't really get it all out. Didn't matter 'cause that truck went back.

All depends on the tech. Some guys are REALLY good that know what they are doing. When it can be done, I'd prefer over conventional repairs. No filler and you don't have to worry about color match.

[cdr]

send a PM TO VANCAMP he can help!!!

[Indygenerallee]

When I worked at the local Dodge dealership back in 99 there was a guy that had bought a brand new 2000 1500 4x4 BLACK he comes in a couple days later and it has a huge baseball dent right in the middle of the hood (right between the two indentions that run the length of the hood on a Ram) anyway that PDR tech was there for about 6 hours and I looked at it afterward and I was stunned I could not even tell it had ever had a dent in it!! Black especially showing every dent and dimple it had nothing, I have a PDR kit I bought a few years back and have had fair results but nothing spectacular.

[vancamp]

You can't completely remove dent. Wherever there's dent it means metal has been stretched and you can't completely push it back out. Sure it can look good from 5-10 feet away but there's still imperfections. If you have car with bunch of dents and you want to get rid of it quickly then go ahead and have dents removed. If you;re keeping the car and want it nice then do it right, have bodyman repair it.

i call bs on this I have been doing paintless for 22 years and 99% of the time I am doing it for Body shops and body men who don't want filler put on their own cars, metal can be stretched to a point to where it cant be repaired but most hail can be repaired by paintless methods if it is done correctly the problem is about 75% of the people doing this aren't doing correctly and gives a bad name to the process and those who do it properly. I have repaired million dollar original paint hemi cars to everyday drivers and it is a permanent repair that is as good or better than conventional filler and paint

[vancamp]

send a PM TO VANCAMP he can help!!!

thanks anyone with pdr questions I will be glad to help or refer a good tech to them if I know of one in their area

[vancamp]

If anyone wants to see what I do look at my Facebook page Vancamp dent systems

[beedees]

send a PM TO VANCAMP he can help!!!

thanks anyone with pdr questions I will be glad to help or refer a good tech to them if I know of one in their area

Can you recommend anyone in the  Texas Panhandle area? Thanks

[vancamp]

send a PM TO VANCAMP he can help!!!

thanks anyone with pdr questions I will be glad to help or refer a good tech to them if I know of one in their area

Can you recommend anyone in the  Texas Panhandle area? Thanks

if your in the Amarillo area go see dent clinic owners name is Greg tell him you want mike to do the repair tell him Vancamp sent ya.

[cdr]

    vancamp

[ws23rt]

You can't completely remove dent. Wherever there's dent it means metal has been stretched and you can't completely push it back out. Sure it can look good from 5-10 feet away but there's still imperfections. If you have car with bunch of dents and you want to get rid of it quickly then go ahead and have dents removed. If you;re keeping the car and want it nice then do it right, have bodyman repair it.

I to call this out as bs. One important item missing when you talk about stretching metal is you say it can not be completely pushed back. Metal shrinking is the same thing in reverse. When metal stretches it gets thinner. When it is shrunk it gets thicker again. It is like clay. I watched a you tube video on metal working where the instructor used a piece of metal to form a dome and than made it flat again. He had been using that same piece of metal for years. Stretch--stress relief--shrink--stress relief.

[Silver R/T]

Wow, a timely question.

You ain't kiddin!
I just had PDR performed on my '11 Ram, today this afternoon! I was trailering my car to the Greenwich Concours this past Saturday, when something flew over the divider from the opposite side of the highway hitting my hood & then bouncing off my windshield.     It was white, looked like a golf ball but was softer like rubber. Windshield was OK, but had a nice tennis ball-sized dent in my hood with a slight crease. NOT HAPPY.     And, making matters worse, the hood is aluminum which is MUCH harder to work with than steel.
I've seen this guy's work before, he is awesome. Came right to my house. He was here for about 1-hr & a half. Hood looks PERFECT.    NO holes drilled to the underside, either.

A PDR guy who is GOOD and knows what he is doing can really do a good job. First job I saw him do was a white Volvo plastered with hail dents on the roof and deck lid, there had to be at least 100-150 of them. The car looked damn perfect when he was done, there were NO signs of dents.

I had some PDR done on two other vehicles. The first job came out perfect. NO signs of previous damage. The second time on another vehicle was on a quarter panel, in a tough area so that guy couldn't really get it all out. Didn't matter 'cause that truck went back.

All depends on the tech. Some guys are REALLY good that know what they are doing. When it can be done, I'd prefer over conventional repairs. No filler and you don't have to worry about color match.

How much did he charge you?

[Silver R/T]

You can't completely remove dent. Wherever there's dent it means metal has been stretched and you can't completely push it back out. Sure it can look good from 5-10 feet away but there's still imperfections. If you have car with bunch of dents and you want to get rid of it quickly then go ahead and have dents removed. If you;re keeping the car and want it nice then do it right, have bodyman repair it.

i call bs on this I have been doing paintless for 22 years and 99% of the time I am doing it for Body shops and body men who don't want filler put on their own cars, metal can be stretched to a point to where it cant be repaired but most hail can be repaired by paintless methods if it is done correctly the problem is about 75% of the people doing this aren't doing correctly and gives a bad name to the process and those who do it properly. I have repaired million dollar original paint hemi cars to everyday drivers and it is a permanent repair that is as good or better than conventional filler and paint

Of course you will call bs on this one as you're PDR guy, you have to defend your job cause that's what you do.
I've seen some PDR repairs done and some of them looked better than others, while I still could tell where dent was. It all depends on the dent, on some you get lucky and cheap flimsy pop-can metal will just spring back out but on some it won't completely come back to original shape. Of course most people can't notice tiny indentations that are still there, only a trained professional can.

[Silver R/T]

You can't completely remove dent. Wherever there's dent it means metal has been stretched and you can't completely push it back out. Sure it can look good from 5-10 feet away but there's still imperfections. If you have car with bunch of dents and you want to get rid of it quickly then go ahead and have dents removed. If you;re keeping the car and want it nice then do it right, have bodyman repair it.

I to call this out as bs. One important item missing when you talk about stretching metal is you say it can not be completely pushed back. Metal shrinking is the same thing in reverse. When metal stretches it gets thinner. When it is shrunk it gets thicker again. It is like clay. I watched a you tube video on metal working where the instructor used a piece of metal to form a dome and than made it flat again. He had been using that same piece of metal for years. Stretch--stress relief--shrink--stress relief.

Are you a bodyman, have been to auto body school? what makes you think that you know much about bodywork/paint. Watching a youtube video does not make you a professional or an expert in anything.
Watch this youtube PDR repair. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VDA8yIvOJg
I can still see all the imperfections left on that quarter panel. Most people wont be able to see it though.

[moparguy01]

I used to be a bodyman. and I have seen GOOD pdr guys work. You don't see where the dents were. Silver, you must have really shitty PDR guys out there. Can you see the dents on some of them when done? sure. There is a fine line between dents you cant get completely out, and ones you can. Most good pdr guys I've talked with will flat out tell you before they start if they think there will be something left when they are done. I;m with Vancamp on this one.

[ws23rt]

You can't completely remove dent. Wherever there's dent it means metal has been stretched and you can't completely push it back out. Sure it can look good from 5-10 feet away but there's still imperfections. If you have car with bunch of dents and you want to get rid of it quickly then go ahead and have dents removed. If you;re keeping the car and want it nice then do it right, have bodyman repair it.

I to call this out as bs. One important item missing when you talk about stretching metal is you say it can not be completely pushed back. Metal shrinking is the same thing in reverse. When metal stretches it gets thinner. When it is shrunk it gets thicker again. It is like clay. I watched a you tube video on metal working where the instructor used a piece of metal to form a dome and than made it flat again. He had been using that same piece of metal for years. Stretch--stress relief--shrink--stress relief.

Are you a bodyman, have been to auto body school? what makes you think that you know much about bodywork/paint. Watching a youtube video does not make you a professional or an expert in anything.
Watch this youtube PDR repair. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VDA8yIvOJg
I can still see all the imperfections left on that quarter panel. Most people wont be able to see it though.

I am a body man.  I have not been to body school.  I think I know much about bodywork/paint because I have been doing it for 35 years. Waching that youtube video is not what gives me my experience. What it does do is teach an understanding about metalworking that sometimes has to be seen to get it. You said "Wherever there's dent it means metal has been stretched and you can't completely push it back out"  This implies that stretched is a permanent condition. The instructional video I referenced was to demonstrate how metal shrinking is accomplished.
We learn things as we move through life and school is not where the real learning happens.
It is true though that nothing can be perfect. No paint job is perfect or can it be. The one that does the work knows where the imperfections are but another would be hard pressed to find them if they were not pointed out.
Most people have very special eyes just like you and can see the same things you do.
The older we get the smarter we were.

[Silver R/T]

Use of shrinking body hammer would damage paint finish, requiring repainting panel.

[ws23rt]

Use of shrinking body hammer would damage paint finish, requiring repainting panel.

This is true a shrinking body hammer will damage the paint. It is a technique that is used when a paint repair will follow.

[vancamp]

You can't completely remove dent. Wherever there's dent it means metal has been stretched and you can't completely push it back out. Sure it can look good from 5-10 feet away but there's still imperfections. If you have car with bunch of dents and you want to get rid of it quickly then go ahead and have dents removed. If you;re keeping the car and want it nice then do it right, have bodyman repair it.

I to call this out as bs. One important item missing when you talk about stretching metal is you say it can not be completely pushed back. Metal shrinking is the same thing in reverse. When metal stretches it gets thinner. When it is shrunk it gets thicker again. It is like clay. I watched a you tube video on metal working where the instructor used a piece of metal to form a dome and than made it flat again. He had been using that same piece of metal for years. Stretch--stress relief--shrink--stress relief.

Are you a bodyman, have been to auto body school? what makes you think that you know much about bodywork/paint. Watching a youtube video does not make you a professional or an expert in anything.
Watch this youtube PDR repair. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VDA8yIvOJg
I can still see all the imperfections left on that quarter panel. Most people wont be able to see it though.

ok the video you posted is of a caved in quarter panel and a guy half assing a repair in a parking lot first off pdr was not designed to repair damage that big some people can make it look better or help a body shop out so that is requires less filler. Obviously you have been burned buy a hack who claimed he knew what he was doing or you wouldn't be so adamant that it doesn't work, I have done both conventional bodywork and pdr for over 20 years and both have their place if done properly and knowing their limitations.

[vancamp]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/VanCamp-Dent-Systems/327735687443#

[Silver R/T]

PDR might work in some scenarios. Personally I consider it as a "touch up", dealer lot repair where dealer doesn't want to pay hundreds to fix a dent and wants car sold asap. I see people touch up their car with rattle cans and brushes, rock chips, scratches. It might look good from 5 ft but up close looks like crap, same goes with PDR. Of course that's my opinion. Whatever pays the bills right?

[ws23rt]

There are many ways to repair body damage. Brushes, rattle cans, etc are used alot. In the right hands they can be very nice. Getting the color to blend is right up there with the toughest. If all you have seen is second rate results it is understandable you are not impressed. I believe your opinion is based on what you have seen. You are a show me kind of guy. I suspect that if you were shown a good PDR repair that you did not witness you would say no way. Perhaps you are not making statements so much as asking questions.
Asking questions will provide answers that make sense much better than rejecting possibilities. I have no horse in this race I am just sharing my experience.

[Silver R/T]

I'm painter/bodyman myself and I just hate seeing people using "quickie" methods instead of doing it the right way.
I hear too often "oh it will cost too much so I'll just touch it up" I had a guy bring me a car once where he "blended" his entire quarter panel with a rattle can and was asking me why it doesn't look as good as the rest of the car.
Actually if I can learn some PDR and make money doing it then it would be great, live and learn right? I would just hate buying a PDR kit and not being able to return my money with it.
In most cases that I've worked on PDR would not have worked anyways

[ws23rt]

I'm painter/bodyman myself and I just hate seeing people using "quickie" methods instead of doing it the right way.
I hear too often "oh it will cost too much so I'll just touch it up" I had a guy bring me a car once where he "blended" his entire quarter panel with a rattle can and was asking me why it doesn't look as good as the rest of the car.
Actually if I can learn some PDR and make money doing it then it would be great, live and learn right? I would just hate buying a PDR kit and not being able to return my money with it.
In most cases that I've worked on PDR would not have worked anyways

I am glad you came back with that. If you invested in a PDR kit that would not answer your need. You need someone that has experience with it to make it work. The kit is just a box of tools. The dealer that has a contact with a good PDR man would be foolish to pass on this option. The bottom line is always cost and $200 vs $2000 is a no brainer.

[bill440rt]

Wow, a timely question.

You ain't kiddin!
I just had PDR performed on my '11 Ram, today this afternoon! I was trailering my car to the Greenwich Concours this past Saturday, when something flew over the divider from the opposite side of the highway hitting my hood & then bouncing off my windshield.     It was white, looked like a golf ball but was softer like rubber. Windshield was OK, but had a nice tennis ball-sized dent in my hood with a slight crease. NOT HAPPY.     And, making matters worse, the hood is aluminum which is MUCH harder to work with than steel.
I've seen this guy's work before, he is awesome. Came right to my house. He was here for about 1-hr & a half. Hood looks PERFECT.    NO holes drilled to the underside, either.

A PDR guy who is GOOD and knows what he is doing can really do a good job. First job I saw him do was a white Volvo plastered with hail dents on the roof and deck lid, there had to be at least 100-150 of them. The car looked damn perfect when he was done, there were NO signs of dents.

I had some PDR done on two other vehicles. The first job came out perfect. NO signs of previous damage. The second time on another vehicle was on a quarter panel, in a tough area so that guy couldn't really get it all out. Didn't matter 'cause that truck went back.

All depends on the tech. Some guys are REALLY good that know what they are doing. When it can be done, I'd prefer over conventional repairs. No filler and you don't have to worry about color match.

How much did he charge you?

It sounds to me like you either have had bad experiences with PDR, or just the wrong impression of it.

The PDR guy wanted to charge me,,,   wait for it........      ZERO! 
I INSISTED on paying him. He came to my house last minute, had the time & offered to repair it on the spot. He performed a service for me, so I paid him. I gave him $60 bucks, which I had to FORCE him to take, normally a dent the size it was could have been $125-$150 easy.     I am THRILLED the way it came out.

I've had 4 personal experiences with PDR:
1) On the hood of my '98 Ram due to a windshield replacement (yes, a WINDSHIELD!). Effing moron glass guy put about 8 dents in my hood from his ELBOW! The truck was very dark, amethyst pearl (purple). Hood came out PERFECT with PDR.
2) '07 Ram bedside, the dent was caused by a wind driven shopping cart although I try to prevent such damage by parking far away. The tech told me beforehand it might not be 100%, because it was in a difficult area. Let's just say the results were 50%, but I didn't give a crap because the truck went back a week later due to the lemon law. POS truck.
3) '09 T&C. Upon picking up our new van a small ding was seen on the passenger side fender. PDR, came out perfect.
4) My '11 Ram as mentioned above.

3 out of 4 ain't bad, especially when I was told beforehand it might not work in the one case.

[vancamp]

PDR might work in some scenarios. Personally I consider it as a "touch up", dealer lot repair where dealer doesn't want to pay hundreds to fix a dent and wants car sold asap. I see people touch up their car with rattle cans and brushes, rock chips, scratches. It might look good from 5 ft but up close looks like crap, same goes with PDR. Of course that's my opinion. Whatever pays the bills right?

i stand by my previous statement either you have been burned by a hack that called himself a pdr tech or you are uneducated in metal repair, either way you should do some research before making the comments you have. Paintless dent repair has been around almost as long as cars and is used by the manufacturers off the assembly line and holding facilities before reaching consumers, it's used by body shops and restoration facilities, how do I know this because I have worked for all of the above from repairing brand new cars in the factories to million dollar restorations that have to be flawless not better but perfect. If you want to continue to insult what I and others have done all these years for a living I would be glad to off the message boards.

[Kern Dog]

There is a Paintless Dent Repair place here in my area. The " i " was burned out. At night it looks like Pantless dent repair. I had this image of guys wearing underwear pounding out dents.
NOT good.

[twodko]

Skip, TuffCat and Fred work there.......or so I've heard.

[Fred]

Skip, TuffCat and Fred work there.......or so I've heard.

Hey twodko,  I've taken to keeping my pants on. I learnt my lesson the hard way!  

[1970Moparmann]

I know a guy in Chi-town that is a master at this.  He has helped me out on new and old cars.   

This guy is so good, he get's paid A LOT of money to do it.

As thick as our old metal is on our cars, he still works it so well that you can't tell when he's done (if it's not on a body line).

I bought a 68 Dart GT Rag top years ago and it had about 50 dings on it.  My man was able to make it very presentable after the fact.  It had original paint, and a few were on the body line.   It turned out so good, I kept the car a survivor.

Newer cars, in most cases, GONE. 

[GPULLER]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/VanCamp-Dent-Systems/327735687443#

Excellent work!
I'm an estimator at a body shop, we don't have an in house PDR tech but sub it out to a company who does excellent work also.  Have seen many hack jobs that we've had to repair conventionally.  Those guys give PDR a bad image.
If you have a good tech there is no problem with PDR.

[vancamp]

heres a couple pics of a Nissan Altima roof I worked on today

[beedees]

Looks like dang nice work. Can you tell anything from looking at pics?

[twodko]

A sage and wise man Mrs. Fred married.  Macaroons were mighty tasty.

[Fred]

A sage and wise man Mrs. Fred married.  Macaroons were mighty tasty.

So happy to hear it Tom.    Her black forest torte is to die for.