Talk me into headers for the 496.........>>>>>

[Johnny SixPack]

Alright, this build has gotten to the point that I've really stepped away from my original plans, but that's OK 'cause I know I can just put the 496 into the "69.

Some may remember when I started the engine build the goal was a stock 6-pack build in conjunction with a bone-stock looking engine bay.

Things kinda changed along the way, but like I said, eventually the "69 will more than like receive the motor and exhaust system.

So, that leads me to my request.

I've already decided on the 3" TTI exhaust (including the Dynomax mufflers) along with the X-pipe, so I'm of a mind to just bite the bullet and get headers.

Another question would be what size headers would work best with the motor?

Here's the info I have on hand:

496 cid 6-pack stroker
2.18/1.81 in/ex valves
match ported iron heads

The custom cam specs are with the builder right now, but will add them tomorrow.

I'm also tempted to go with Eddy heads, but money's tight right now, but maybe in the future, so that also would play into the final decision.

Thanks for everyones help so far!


Johnny

[Chryco Psycho]

without all the info I would saty with the 1 7/8" headers , I doubt you will have enough parts to really need the 2 " + I asssume most of the driving will be cruising in the 2500-3500 range 

[firefighter3931]

With a 496 i would go 2in especially if you're planning on some aluminum head upgrades in the future. TTI is the way to go for sure. 

Ron

[MOPARHOUND!]

If this is a mostly street car, I'd go with the 1-7/8" TTI headers.  They will clear the angle plugs in the Eddy heads when the day comes, and the smaller tubes will allow more clearance all around versus the 2" (starter, etc.). 

If you are mostly racing then consider the 2".

Switching from factory "452" heads with 2.14/1.81 valve and HP manifolds, to Eddy's and 1-7/8" TTI headers and TTI 3" exhaust took my street driven 496 to another level performance wise.  Of course I had to pull the engine due to a spun rod bearing anyway, so the head swap was convenient at the time.

I was happy with the factory head/HP exhaust combo, just my personal preference, as I may never race the car and kinda liked the stock look.  But had heard of the power others were making with the Eddy's on the 493" - 500" RB strokers, and had the $$ at the time, so went for it.  Don't regret it.  Went from a fast torque monster to scary powerful, enough to make me sick, unreal    .

Guess it comes back to "how fast do you want to go?".

One of the first things any performance engine builder will tell you is to lose the factory manifolds, as there is a big HP/Torque gain to be made.

Check your fastener torque regularly on your headers, no biggie. 

[Johnny SixPack]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

Yeah, once this motor gets swapped into the "69 (within a year or so) it will definitely be receiving the aluminum heads (and some other goodies).

TTI is the only header I was considering, Ron.

The "69 is going to be a road racer, so getting the most out of the motor (and the sum of its parts) is important in the long run.

And since I loathe buying parts twice, I thinkin' going with the 2" headers is the best choice.

How did I get here? 

[hemi68charger]

Johnny,
Have you seen the TTI's on Scott's R6 440 4-speed Charger R/T? He has them and is very please. He's running the Edelbrock heads... But, that shouldn't matter.....

Troy

[firefighter3931]

Thanks for the replies, guys!


And since I loathe buying parts twice, I thinkin' going with the 2" headers is the best choice.

That would be my choice. I bought the 2in tti's with a future stroker build in mind. The bigger 2in tube did rob 20ftlbs of torque from the 440 but the hp numbers were the same. The x-pipe i'm installing will get that torque back and then some ! A stroker is a completely different animal with huge amounts of bottom end power as Hound describes in his post....tq is not a problem.  

The bigger tube will help in the upper end power with a 500ci engine.....that's where you'd notice the diffference vs a 17/8in header. With a healthy solid cam and good flowing aluminum heads you don't want the header choking it off. The 2in tti's fit great and were originally designed as an a-body header....they tuck in real tight to the block. Sparkplug access is excellent compared to any other header i've seen. A mini starter clears fine as does an oem starter.

A friend built a mild stroker with the 2in headers and it made 550hp/600ftlbs of torque on the dyno. The engine is mellow enough to run a/c, pb, ps and idles like a stocker. The guy he built it for runs it in a wagon.  

Ron

[sext7366]

Like you said money is tight, and if you will be changing the heads later on anyway consider the fact that those exhaust manifold bolts are a SOB to get off...at least mine were, so headers are better even if they simply save you some headaches.  My 383 manifolds are not going to be put back on for sure, but I am opting for the cheap summit headers.  Why you all will ask?  Well I am going to use a good ceramic based coating on em and even if they still rust through or whatever in a year I hope to upgrade to the TTI's.  Just a thought for those of us without extra money, after a rebuild ,new suspension, and gas $.

[Mefirst]

I run the 2" TTi headers on my 440 combo.. The fitment was just awsome, and I even tried to fit in the old stock starter, and it does clear the headers as they claim in the TTi add..

How did I get here? 

-Sorry Johnny

[Johnny SixPack]

Johnny,
Have you seen the TTI's on Scott's R6 440 4-speed Charger R/T? He has them and is very please. He's running the Edelbrock heads... But, that shouldn't matter.....

Troy

I did, and I was impressed at how nice his setup looked!

Ron, you've been an unbelievable help in all of this.

I owe you big, man!

Looks like I'll be going with the 2" headers since the Eddy heads are definitely in the mix for the future.

I run the 2" TTi headers on my 440 combo.. The fitment was just awsome, and I even tried to fit in the old stock starter, and it does clear the headers as they claim in the TTi add..

How did I get here? 

-Sorry Johnny

I place the blame squarely on your shoulders, dude! 

Seriously though, I'm stoked to get this whole deal finallized, as I'm itchin' to get this beast back on the road! 

[Mefirst]

I run the 2" TTi headers on my 440 combo.. The fitment was just awsome, and I even tried to fit in the old stock starter, and it does clear the headers as they claim in the TTi add..

How did I get here? 

-Sorry Johnny

I place the blame squarely on your shoulders, dude! 

I´ll carry that blame with pride and joy...

[hemi68charger]

Johnny,,
Got to thnkin'........ Wouldn't it be a cool contrast picture of your Ev2 orange six pack '70 and my Ew1 alpine white six pack '70 side by side?.....  Once I get the '68 done, the '70 is on my next hit parade.......

Troy

[Johnny SixPack]

Johnny,,
Got to thnkin'........ Wouldn't it be a cool contrast picture of your Ev2 orange six pack '70 and my Ew1 alpine white six pack '70 side by side?.....  Once I get the '68 done, the '70 is on my next hit parade.......

Troy

Most definitely!

A tale of two 6-packs. 

That's magazine material right there.

[hemi68charger]

Johnny,,
Got to thnkin'........ Wouldn't it be a cool contrast picture of your Ev2 orange six pack '70 and my Ew1 alpine white six pack '70 side by side?.....  Once I get the '68 done, the '70 is on my next hit parade.......

Troy

Most definitely!

A tale of two 6-packs. 

That's magazine material right there.

Yeap, yours built on the 2nd day and mine on the last day of production.. lol

[Johnny SixPack]

Johnny,,
Got to thnkin'........ Wouldn't it be a cool contrast picture of your Ev2 orange six pack '70 and my Ew1 alpine white six pack '70 side by side?.....  Once I get the '68 done, the '70 is on my next hit parade.......

Troy

Most definitely!

A tale of two 6-packs. 

That's magazine material right there.

Yeap, yours built on the 2nd day and mine on the last day of production.. lol

Pretty much a set of bookends, no? 

[is_it_EVER_done?]

If I may offer a suggestion. If you definitely plan on going to E-heads in the future (excellent decision in my opinion), and if money is to tight to do everything at once, I would highly recommend getting the heads now and build the engine to fully utilize them (compression, quench, and cam selection), and plan on upgrading the exhaust at as you can afford to.

The reason I suggest this is twofold. First, the cost of the exhaust system you plan on getting will be as much as the heads, plus you can sell your iron heads to help offset the cost of other parts, or apply towards your exhaust (fresh unused heads will sell for more than used ones), Second, though it sounds easy to swap on a set of heads at a future date, it is seldom ever that easy, nor will it produce the best results since piston selection/deck height, compression, cam/valve spring pressures, etc., that is utilized for iron open chamber heads, won't be ideal for aluminum closed chamber heads. It will work, but it's never ideal.

It is also much easier to afford to upgrade the exhaust later, as it can be done in sections whereas heads have to be done all at once, and don't forget the added expense of new head gaskets, intake gaskets (if applicable), valve cover gaskets, and the introduction of contaminants into the engine when you scrape the old gasket reisdue off and possible carbon removal from the piston tops. -- I don't care how carefull you are, some debris get into the engine.

The decision is yours, I just throw this out from a "been there, done that" perspective. If you have already gathered your parts, then disregard all this, otherwise I strongly suggest this approach even if you have to cobble a temporary exhaust system together to make it opperational.

[Johnny SixPack]

Ever, thanks for the insights.

The problem with going that route is that the parts have already been ordered, and the iron heads have already been worked.

The heads I'm keeping as they are part of my original motor (luckily the PO was a racer and had done a good bit of work to them) and my desire is to eventually use them inconjunction with a near bone stock 6-pack build for my "70, once the stroker finds its way between my "69's fenders that is.

The heads will probably be a year or more off, but the exhaust is needed now, and as you stated, it's moot since all the parts have been purchased for an iron headed build.

I really appreciate the suggestions though, as this is my first dealing with engine building (even though someone else is doing it), and have a much better grasp of how to do this in a better way the next time.

Thanks again!

[kamkuda]

A little late but I agree with the 2 inch headers.  I purchased a set of the TTi's for my planned RB stroker.  Ceramic coating will help keep the underhood temp down a bit.

Rob