Has anyone dealt with a bully for a coach for their kid?

[General_01]

My 17 year old daughter decided to get back into soccer after blowing out her ACL about 4 years ago. Last fall she went out for high school and made the B-Squad (lowest team). She won the "Most Improved" award from her coach and teammates. She also decided to play summer soccer to try and improve some more to see if she could make it on the JV team.

We got her on a summer team and the coach has done nothing but harass her emotionally since they started playing games. He won't play her much and pulls the "I don't discuss playing time" card and his daughter is one of the dirtiest players I have ever seen and not very talented, but plays the whole game. I emailed the soccer club and am climbing the ladder, but every email I get back from them is the "I support my coaches". We even got one from the coordinator we are meeting with stating this fact BEFORE we even have the meeting.

I feel very bad for my daughter. Even through everything so far beginning in February, she has told us she wants to keep going. Tonight she told me that if the club doesn't want to intervene that she wants to quit because she is tired of being hurt by the coach after every practice and game.

Thanks for listening to me vent.

[Cooter]

Yessiree, sucks when you ain't part of the Clique. HS sports are bout the dumps nowadays. Everybody has their little favorites that they stand behind even if they ain't worth it.

This is why they make those bumper stickers that say things like "My kid kicked your Soccer player kid's ass"...

I do have a friend that makes up bumper stickers. He had a similar experience with his daughters HS teacher. She was deliberately passing her up for A's because of who he is and where he worked. So, being that she was of "Indian" persuasion, he made up a bumper sticker and slapped it on her SUV that read:

"Down with America. Death to all Infidels!"
Didn't help with her grades, but did get the windows busted out of her SUV.

[polywideblock]

had the same problem with my youngest daughter played soccer in HS but wanted to play "outside" school .so got her in a team and all was good. one afternoon her mother couldn't pick her up so i did,  I'd only just got out of the car and this guy comes running over screaming at me that they didn't need my "type" hanging around their young girls saying he'd already called the cops etc . when i explained that i was actually a parent he got all flustered and wouldn't even look at me .the next week she went from playing the entire game to sitting on the bench, after 6 weeks of the same garbage she quit and never played again.  people suck

[Troy]

The reason I never played high school sports - I couldn't stand any of the coaches! To this day, I won't participate in any sport where the coaches or team are jerks or abusive. We currently practice softball on fields bordered by soccer fields and tennis courts. There are some really good, supportive coaches. Then there are the ones who think that they are so talented that they don't need to "coddle" the kids. I guess if you want your kid to be an Olympian then you do whatever it takes to push them - but most kids just want to have fun and feel competitive. If this is a public or school team then the coach is out of line (but be aware that there may not have been any other options). If it's a select team then the only reason to put a kid there is the coach. Move her to a different team (which may not be possible until later) or hope enough other parents are fed up and the coach is fired.

Kids won't learn if they are stressed from all the other things that could happen. If your daughter really wants to play then make sure she's in an environment where she can excel - not one where she gets turned off from the sport completely.

From the other point of view, I have several friends who coach sports all the way from 4-5 years through college. Many times the parents are much harder to deal with than the kids. Most have rules for behavior so they can have something to reference when parents get in their face. In many sports, coaches are volunteers and, sometimes, you get bad ones simply because there aren't enough good ones for all the teams that need to play.

Troy

[General_01]

This is a summer league team. You are right when you say you sometimes get bad coaches. Our issue is that the club is supposed to be there to help resolve issues if dealing with the coach is not productive. This club is in PYA mode right now. My wife replied to the clubs email this morning and asked them how productive this meeting was going to be if are already giving us their position on the situation before we even meet.

Just to give you a taste of this guy, the team was playing their third indoor game back in February. He pulled my daughter off the field after playing 5 or so minutes. Second game he did that to her in a row. She was upset, but didn't say anything. She grabbed her water and stood there for the rest of the half. After halftime he changed out everyone except my daughter. The other girls that had come off stood between her and the coach. She walked around them to stand next to the coach figuring she would get to go in next because she had been out the longest. Not 5 seconds after she stood next to him, the coach walked to the other end of the line without saying a word to her and subbed the other girls back in the game before her. After the game he initiated contact via email the next day to ask us what is wrong with my daughter's attitude. The guy is just a bully. He won't answer my daughter when she asks him questions and  basically shuns her. She comes home crying from games and she is the problem.

We are pretty sure that she won't be playing with the team after the meeting. As stated they are in PYA mode and are not interested in fixing the issue, just making us go away. And yes, they are already using my sideline behaviour as an issue. I do not say nice things about the coach, but it is all I can do to not escalate it further.

[stripedelete]

If it we're not for his daughter being on the team I would suggest you be more critical of your daughter"s talent and attitude.  But, when the coach has a kid on the team, it's almost certain someone"s going to get the short end of the stick.

I experienced it as a youngster in baseball and again in basketball my senior year.

Encourage her to stick it out.  It's character building in a way you could never provide.

[General_01]

Just to be clear, we are not saying daughter is a star. I coached before. I know where her skill level is at. My problem is that he doesn't think he is there to help her get better. If you pull a kid off every time they make a mistake they will lose all confidence and their play gets worse. Proven fact. This is not about my daughters position on the team. This is about the coaches inability to develop players talent in a positive light. His daughter critisizes everyone on the team and she is about in the middle of the team skillwise. Effort wise she is near the bottom. His team is a negative bubble.

[ACUDANUT]

Todays high school sports imo is much more highly competitive then before and if you want to excel in any sport you have to play it year round.  Ask me how I know.

[General_01]

I agree with you.

By the way, how do you know? 

[ACUDANUT]

2 kids in College and Tons of money a year into off season teams that only selected a "few" per team Back in HS.  Both of my kids do have scholarships so I hope it pays forward.

[General_01]

2 kids in College and Tons of money a year into teams that only select a "few" per team Back in HS).  Both of my kids do have scholarships so I hope it pays forward.

That's great. Good for them.

My kids are not superstars. The youngest is better then the oldest, but she didn't have a 3-4 year gap like her older sister. That is also the issue I have. This is a C3 team that moved up to C2 this year. That is right in my older daughters wheelhouse skillwise. This is not Premier soccer they are playing. The gap in skill between his starters and his subs is not that great.

The kicker for her was that he sat her down in the second half of the last game and wouldn't tell her why, but at the end of the game he said to the team "Too bad Caitlyn wasn't here so we could have subbed more" adding insult to injury to her since he could have subbed her more but didn't.

[Old Moparz]

Organized sports gave me my first taste of politics when I was 12 years old playing in little league. The first couple of years was a learning process for the game, both with skills & rules. By the time I was 12 & in my last year of that league I got pretty good at it. I'll admit I wasn't the best at everything in the game, but I was better than the one kid on the team who was selected to be on the traveling team who's Dad was also a coach.

The following year in the next level, the Babe Ruth League, I did even better & did make it onto the travel team. The part I thought was funny was that the kid who was selected the year before me didn't make the team & had a tantrum. Tossed his helmet, cursed & didn't talk to me.....LOL His Dad wasn't a coach this time so it proved to me it's all about "who you are" or "who you know" to get ahead.

My daughter wanted to sign up for softball 5 years ago & did. She went through the same learning process I did & by the time she was 12 & in her last year, she got much better at it. I know she may not have been good enough to be selected for the travel team, but it really bothered me to witness two of the younger kids on her team, who barely knew how to play, get selected. The ones selected were at more of a beginner level & couldn't throw across the infield without a 20 foot running start. They were both daughters of other coaches, & friends with the "clique" that hung out together away from the field. My daughter seemed okay with it, but she didn't sign up this year.

Some things will never change because the selfish & immature parents who run things are the offspring of the same douche bags that came before them. Professional athletes are no different & sometimes even worse. These king sized, overpaid douches are "role models" so what can you expect?  

[F8-4life]

Idk if this really has anything to do with op's problem but I will post my thoughts anyway.

The masses will always drag down the gifted individual. Its kinda a unwritten rule. "team bs" crap is overrated by 100% in modern society. Essentailly cause you have crap like this coach.  If your kid is a good kid she will flourish on her own better.
If I was her I wouldn't waste my time on deadbeat school sports. Lone wolf is the way to go.
I avoided organized sports throughout my lifetime( for many reasons) and spent my childhood ages 11-21 skateboarding.
Ended up being very skilled and had some of the best times of my life fallowing my own path.
Its much more rewarding if you accomplish YOUR goals without having to rely on people you may or may not even like.

[BigBlackDodge]

The coaches kid ALWAYS plays ALL the time......no matter if they suck or not. You can't go against nature. 4 years of little league and playing for the state finals in Minnesota in '81, we lost. I learned a lot though.

Adult sports isn't much better. I played city league softball for 5 years and have also been subject to the 'clique'. There was one season I played were me and another guy always switched out so that we could play a few innings each. No one else EVER offered to swap out so the extra guy could also play....I guess the other guys were so good and couldn't bring it onto themselves to sit out part of the game.  I was playing catcher one game and the ball was hit deep into the outfield. The outfield threw to ball to home and was waaaayyyyy....off target. He got onto to me for not catching the ball in the dugout, want an ass. 'Try hitting the cut off man instead of trying be a hero next time. You don't have the arm for it.' was my reply. This was the same guy who had a few beers in the parking lot before the game.

I'm a decent ball player and for a few seasons I was at third base, that's a scary ass position for men's league softball!! I hit pretty well and could 'go yard' on the big fields when few could on the team. It all got down to the good ole boy system.....and I wasn't really part of that.


Talking about this makes me want to play again.................kind of.


BBD

[Drache]

[polywideblock]

love the ice pick   

[Drache]

love the ice pick   

It's a police photo of Bundy's murder kit 

[2Gunz]

Maybe you should couch next year?   

[2Gunz]

We didnt have play time issues because we barely had enough players to make a team.

When I was 16 or 17 we got a new soccer coach.
He was very aggressive and and Very hard on us. It kinda felt like some sorta military camp for soccer.
Practices sucked, and the games where tense because he was.
We all would have had a much better time and prolly won more often if he didnt want to win so bad.
Its a game?  Lets have fun?

One of the few "good times" I remember from that period of my life was driving that dude into the ground....
The coach used to play with us during practice....  and I watched him very intentionally trip and knock one of the players forcefully to the ground.
I proceed to "Slide tackle" him  *cough* hammer him into the ground.  He fell like a sack of potato's.

When he got up he was PISSED.  He was all up in my face yelling at me.   My response was "had the ball dude"  while I was smirking from ear to ear.
I ran a lot that day......  lol

But he didnt play so dirty after that, and stayed clear of me.


Anyway,  I wish more coaches would realize its more about character development for kids at that age.
Forget about the wins and just let the kids have some structured fun.

[General_01]

My wife read the email from the club and decided to respond to her. She asked her if the meeting we were having was going to be productive because it sounded like she already had her mind made up. She made it clear that this is not about playing time, but about how he is bullying our daughter. It took the club all day before they responded. We think the Competitive Director read the emails that we sent to the Director of Coaching before we were paired with her. I think she realized that most of my emails were not about playing time but about how he is coaching. Her tone in her response changed dramatically. Not sure what will come of this, but we feel a little better now. Before we were 100% sure she wouldn't be playing on this team after the meeting. We just wanted to say our piece so we could say we gave them a chance to see what we see. Now there is a glimmer of hope that things may change and she will continue to play. Best case scenario is that they replace him as coach, but I doubt that will happen.

As for me coaching her or finding another team, this is her last year. She will be a senior next year and wants to get a job and get ready for college and enjoy herself next summer. Another reason this season was so disappointing. She wanted to play and have some fun and get better at soccer. Instead she is stressed out and doesn't even look forward to going to practices or games. She did make two good friends on the team so at least something good happened.

[XH29N0G]

I completely missed this and have some thoughts. 

First, I think you are doing the right thing to stand up for your daughter in this.  Seeing you do this means it will be something she will learn from. 

Second, I wish you the best with the league, but am not holding my breath. 

Third, I have been coaching a soccer team for the past 5 years (actually so my son has a team to play on - he does not play the whole game and usually plays about 1/2 the time).  Her coach does not sound like a good one.  Your daughter should be made aware of this and if she likes the game but not the team, she should keep her eyes open for other opportunities. 

There are so many things you describe that just seem wrong for this level soccer.  Playing all players is so important for having a team work together and having a team that respects everyone and has character and resilience when down.  For the team, having all players play gives the weakest players game experience and they get better.  It also allows the coach to rest some of the best players so they can go in when needed.  It also means that when the best players leave for a higher level team, that there are players who can slot in to their spots.  I actively send my kids up.  For my team in the long haul, I think it is a big part of the reason why we went from being middle of the league 5 years ago to loss free for over a year.  Now we are looking to change leagues for more balanced play.   

[General_01]

My exact words to the Director of Coaching were "The problem I have is that he seems to feel that developing player skills and building player confidence takes a back seat to winning. Not a very good attitude for a youth soccer coach to have. In our short time on the team I have seen very little that qualifies him as a youth coach unless winning games is the only criteria."

The reason I said the latter was that last year this team was a C3 team (lowest competitive league level) and this year they are a C2 team. (From there it goes to C1 and then Premeir). Their league record was .500, but if you decide to play in the Summer State tournament and win your team is relegated up one level. Not every team plays in the State tournament. It is a nice accomplishment, but if they had won all there games and been sent up because of that, I might understand expectations to hang with the other teams. They won a tournament, but they are not consistant enough to win. They play "boom ball", which means kick it forward as far as you can and let the forwards run after it. They are not proficient in moving into position when they don't have the ball to pass the ball up the field. So far they are 1-2-1 this year and we are having issues because as you point out XH, there is no team unity, just finger pointing. This attitude starts with the coach, thus my statement.

[Tilar]

Get up close so the coach can over hear your conversation with someone else and say "I knew a coach years ago that wouldn't play some of the girls just like this guy does.... he was gay. I wonder if it's just coincidence?" 

ok, maybe not the best idea but it would get his attention, especially if you get Cooters friend to make up some rainbow bumper stickers and send them to you. 

[General_01]

Get up close so the coach can over hear your conversation with someone else and say "I knew a coach years ago that wouldn't play some of the girls just like this guy does.... he was gay. I wonder if it's just coincidence?" 

ok, maybe not the best idea but it would get his attention, especially if you get Cooters friend to make up some rainbow bumper stickers and send them to you. 

I have already said enough around the parents. One of them is the VP of this club. That was already brought up during these last email exchanges. I am sure he has heard about it from her and I am sure that is another reason my daughter is shunned by him. He takes his dislike of me questioning him out on my daughter. I usually don't hold my feelings back once I know someone hasn't got a clue. He is a prick, moron, idiot, a**hole. Another reason he shouldn't be a coach. The only time he has ever approached us after the initial tryout with the team is when my wife was the only one at the game. I had the youngest at another game. He won't talk to me, especially if she is in tears when she comes off the field. 

[XH29N0G]

Before I add my  , I thought Tilar's suggestion was  and I bet a number of my players would think the same. 

Another  ....We played boom ball when the kids were 11.      

I agree with what you have done.  I don't know if this is an option, but I also wonder whether the league have other coaches that would let your daughter join their team at this stage or next year?  I would see if you can talk to them now.  The kids on the teams will also reflect the coach.  This guy does not sound like the type of person to work with.

[General_01]

"Another  Twocents ....We played boom ball when the kids were 11.   nana"   

Exactly! These girls are U17.

"I also wonder whether the league have other coaches that would let your daughter join their team at this stage or next year"

Too late to switch teams if possible and she has already said she doesn't want to play after she graduates next year.

[ACUDANUT]

Bad Coach's are everywhere.  Some are just idiots filling in, just to get another paycheck (H.S.) others, do it so their kid gets more play time. 

[General_01]

Yep. It happens. Thanks for everyone's input and support. We meet on Tuesday with the club. I will let you know how that turns out. Busy printing out emails and highlighting right now.

[Darkman]

I am a martial arts instructor (and have been for 15yrs). My kids (2 girls and a boy) wanted to do martial arts. They trained with me at home and in class, they were good, but they saw me as their Dad rather than their instructor. So I sent them to another school to avoid the "Dad" thing and so there was no favouritism with my kids. They came home the first night and weren't their usual happy little rascals. I asked them how it was and they all said OK and left it at that. This went on for a few weeks and they wouldn't show me what they were learning, so I went to their class one night to see what was going on. I came in after they started and sat at the back so the kids wouldn't see me. WELL WAS I STUNNED at how the instructor spoke to them. Told them they were hopeless, no talent and their "old man" was a pathetic little girl........sooooooo, I walked right up to him in the middle of his class and hit him so hard his ovaries hurt. I stood over him and said, "so this pathetic little girl just put you on your ass, what are you going to do?" As I stood over him I looked behind to where my kids were and they took down 5 of their black belts and my son was still holding onto one of them! I was so proud of them! As I left I said so who's the pathetic girl now. 2 weeks later 3 of the 5 black belts came over to my class and joined up! They had told me he was always like that but a lot worse with my kids.

[70moparman]

Bully huh?  Try this... run into him behind the local Sonic, and kick the living shit out of him, and tell him you dont want to have to do that again, so play nice...  Thats what I would do...   

[General_01]

Met with the Traveling Coordinator. She seemed genuinely concerned about the problem. We told her about some things that we have heard him say to his team and the negative atmosphere him and his daughter create as well as how he makes our daughter feel. She said she would now talk to him in the next few days about some things we brought up that concern her and we will go from there. So far sounds promising. At her game last he played her a fair amount for her skill level so that was good. Hopefully things will get better.

[bull]

There are several factors at play when it comes to a child involved with a parent who's a coach, teacher, boss, etc. Favoritism, nepotism, conflict of interest are all going to come in to play. The right thing to do, as mentioned by Darkman, would be for the coach and his/her kid to be separated to avoid the appearance of impropriety at least.

That said, I disagree with the notion that winning should not be one of the main reasons for playing. Kids don't learn what they need to learn about life when they're given participation trophies. Not everybody wins but everyone should be given a shot.

[Troy]

The main problem with separating the parent (coach) from their child is that the parent likely wouldn't volunteer to be a coach unless their kid was on the team (this obviously does not apply to paid coaches - but some do move up in the ranks as the kids get older). Also, logistics would be a giant pain since the kid would need to be at practice/games at the same time as the parent - but in different places!

Sadly, in this case, if the coach is reprimanded he's more likely to blame it on the kid/parent he was having trouble with instead of doing anything constructive. That's the world we live in today (same as a kid who isn't very good or doesn't try very hard or doesn't follow the rules but blames the coach for their lack of playing time).

Troy

[General_01]

I agree that winning needs to be a priority, but no playing time or very little so the team can win is ridiculous. The last two games he played her 15 minutes out of each 45 minute half. that is two to 1 in favor of some more skilled players and there are a few who play the whole game. that is what I consider fair. she gets to play in a game environment and work on her skills. just to be clear, she has made all practices, practiced hard and even injured and she was the only player he wouldn't put on the field for a fair amount of time.

[bull]

When I was in grade school we had little league baseball and everyone who tried out got to play, bat at least. We didn't have this t-ball nonsense where 80 people have to stand around watching some kid swing at and miss a stationary ball 15 times. If that was my kid doing that I'd say, 'you know what? Baseball is not your thing,' and I'd find them something they could excel at.

In high school we had junior varsity football (like everywhere else I assume) where everyone got to play and it was kind of a farm team for varsity. Myself and 3-4 other guys were playing varsity every week by the time we were sophomores, but then it was pretty slim pickins in my town of 1,100 people. Would I have made varsity in a city? Don't know, don't care. We barely had enough players for a 22-man scrimmage but now the town has shrunk to the point they play 8-man football today, so I bet everyone still gets to play. Everything is better in a small town.

[Troy]

It's still that way in most little league baseball/softball leagues (possibly in soccer as well). Every kid on the team has to appear in the game. Now, that doesn't mean they get to play any more than the last out! Once you get into high school I believe all those "mandatory" playing time rules go away. I guess they assume that, at that point, the teams are there to win and they will play the best players. That assumption *may* be wrong in some cases as the coach will do what he wants - not necessarily what is best for the team or players. Even the manager in the MLB All Star Game gets to hand pick players - and they often pick favorites over the best available.

Troy

[General_01]

Soccer clubs do not have a provision that all kids must play some. That is the coach's discretion. I would understand that more if the coach is a paid coach(high school, college, etc.). This is a volunteer parent that played as a kid, which was 20-25 years ago. I don't feel that he has the right or the proper knowledge to make decisions like that. That's why I wish there was a minimum playing time.

I am also a little touchy on this subject because when I was a kid in baseball league I had the same thing happen to me. The coach would play me the minimum 2 innings out of 6 and sit me down. We had 10 players. I would switch with the same kid. This happened for 3 games and I got in the car after that and told my parents I was done. My Dad went up to the coach and told him off. Starting with the next game, I played every game all game and other kids had to switch out. Guess what? My attitude changed, I got better( had a decent batting average and almost hit a home run off the best pitcher in our league) and actually had a good time.

Update- I think the coach was contacted by the club. The coach sends out emails after games critiquing the teams play. This time he touched on every point we made to the director. "it was fun seeing everyone having a good time and contributing.....Time to move into the second half and play hard, no fingerpointing, ...." etc. It was the first game this year our daughter came home and was excited and telling us all the things that happened during the game. Hopefully things keep keep headed in the right direction.

Thanks for all the input and support everyone.

[General_01]

Just to sum up. The rest of the season went downhill again. He even had a friend of his daughter put on the roster for a tournament in mid June and played her more than my daughter and another girl on the team. Friday was the last day of their last tournament. Thursday they had a game and after he played her very little I told him to his face he was just a piece of garbage. The next morning we had to split up and my wife went to her game and I went to the youngest. He did the same crap. I showed up at the next game and she played quite a bit. Not sure if it was a coincidence, but the season is over and we are done with him and the club.

I did email a letter to the entire board highlighting how he treated our daughter and called out the VP, who's daughter plays on the team so she saw every game.

Now I will sit back and hope karma has fun with him or fate puts us together alone.