Calling all Mopar Experts!!!!

[Old School]

I have a puzzle that is just driving me crazy. I have a 74 Charger SE that I bought about 7 years ago. I got it without a motor or trany, so i put one in
and have just been driving it. I decided to put a new interior in it a couple weeks ago so I started taking the old one out last weekend. I found two build sheets in the car, one behind the back seat and the other under the carpet. They match each other. I quickly checked them out to make sure they called out a sunroof car which I have and they did, I never bothered to check the VIN at that time. I sat down that night to decode the sheet and quickly noticed that the VIN did not match, so I thought that I had the sheets for some other sunroof car. The VIN on the car states it had a 318 and made at Lynch Road, the build sheet says 400 HP and made at St Louis. I checked the door sticker for the VIN and it is just a blank sticker nothing on it. I checked the cowl for the VIN nothing there, so I checked behind the radiator support and found the VIN that matches the build sheet. There was no fender tag on the car when I got it. The VIN tag has the round rivets not the rosette style that is supposed to be there? Any thoughts, theories?

[Ghoste]

I'm no expert but I'd say someone changed the dash VIN tag to match a title they had.  I hope it doesn't mean the car was stolen.

[moparstuart]

wow that sucks on a rare sunroof car   

[tan top]

oh no !! dont sound good !! hope there is a innocent explination  ,  does the  dash vin tag match the broadcast sheet  &  & radiator support ?

[Ghoste]

If I understand properly I think he is saying they do not.

[tan top]

If I understand properly I think he is saying they do not.

   yep your right   ,

i miss read it  D'oH 

definatly dont sound  good ,

[Old Moparz]

It's also possible that there is a 1974 Charger somewhere that has a 400 drive train in it with a matching VIN tag & title that was originally a 318 car. But nobody would ever switch things like that, it's illegal & there would never be any kind of financial incentive to do so.

[JB400]

I guess the thing to do would be to contact your dmv and have a state trooper look it over and see if it is stolen.   Show them the bill of sale and the title.

How did you acquire the car?  Junkyard? Individual?

[Old School]

I did talk to the gentleman that I bought the car from and he said that is the tag that was on it when he got it back in 79.
So whatever happened it was early on in the life of the car. He doesn't remember the name of the guy he got it from.

[bakerhillpins]

It's also possible that there is a 1974 Charger somewhere that has a 400 drive train in it with a matching VIN tag & title that was originally a 318 car. But nobody would ever switch things like that, it's illegal & there would never be any kind of financial incentive to do so.

  that's my guess.

[Brian in GA]

I'm no expert but I'd say someone changed the dash VIN tag to match a title they had.  I hope it doesn't mean the car was stolen.

  I've seen it happen before. 

[skip68]

I say you probably don't want to find out why this happened, enjoy the car and forget all about this.         
It could be innocent and good or it could be a very bad thing.   

[polywideblock]

check your cowl, under hood to cowl seal behind brake booster what partial Vin is on there?

[Baldwinvette77]

I say just roll with it, maybe the vin was swapped for some reason, it doesn't mean it was stolen it could just mean it was bought as a parts car with no title, but restored,....... or maybe the original vin had a bunch of speeding, parking, and fix it tickets attached to it  atleast you didnt pay for a big block car, but found out it was a basemodel, like some people have 

[1carcrazyguy]

The VIN tag has the round rivets not the rosette style that is supposed to be there? Any thoughts, theories?

That is the answer there.....VIN is likely not the original VIN to the car.  DMV inspection will likely lead to the car being impounded.   Make sure you have all your paperwork (bill of sale and all paperwork you have ever had or gotten on the car) ready for the inspector.  Sounds like it may end up a legal battle if you want a return on the money you spent. 

[Old Moparz]

I've never been the type to worry about what trim level or engine size a car I wanted had. If it were a 318 car, like 3 of mine are, that's all that mattered. Swapping a big block into it & making some changes to the rest of the car was what my friends & I all did for years. Would I like to own a real big block Charger over a 318 car? Sure I would, but having the Charger is more important to me than a VIN tag that gives you bragging rights. I'm not knocking true big block cars, I admire them but I just don't get caught up in the numbers thing.

To some people it may not be a big deal that a car has a questionable VIN tag, but I would NEVER consider purchasing a car that had traces of a VIN tag swap. I'd rather have a state issued tag so I can sleep at night. I also wouldn't ignore the tag that was swapped because after pouring money into the car over time, you may simply have to give it away to a previous owner who may have had it stolen from them. Don't forget that selling it for what it "should be worth" will be next to impossible when someone sees the tag.

I truly don't think a '74 Charger with a 400 would be a good candidate for tag swapping for profit. It is more likely that it was done for the convenience of titling a car that may not have had one. However, if this was done in the 1970's when it was a late model, used car, you have to keep in mind that it could have been stolen from the original owner back then. Not sure what I'd do if I were in this situation, but I'd start researching it.   


Past stories of cars stolen & returned many years later......

Texas man finds his car 42 years after it was stolen
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/16/us/california-stolen-car

Man reunited with stolen muscle car after 16 years
http://www.leftlanenews.com/man-reunited-with-stolen-muscle-car-after-16-years.html

Stolen VW Bus Returned — After 36 Years
http://jalopnik.com/5714601/stolen-vw-bus-returned--after-36-years

[mopartybob]

I guess the thing to do would be to contact your dmv and have a state trooper look it over and see if it is stolen.   Show them the bill of sale and the title.

How did you acquire the car?  Junkyard? Individual?

this would be "the right thing to do", but if it went south and they CONFISCATED your car, your knees would ache from kicking your own butt...   ,before you sink a lot of $$$ into this car,i'd consider doin the right thing...and I do mean CONSIDER.lol.. you cant recoup what you invest in a "stolen car" after it's confiscated..., certainly is odd though that these broadcast sheets would be placed in the same location that the factory would place them... and that one does have a matching # to "the rad. support?),maybe the back seat came from a different car???, with that in my mind, I'd just keep it to myself and ENJOY the car without this haunting you...I assume it's already registered to you?, if so ,DMV paperwork should be legal enuff to clear your conscience...  good luck ...Robert

[472 R/T SE]

I'm always apprehensive when seeing the round rivets attaching a VIN plate.

It's a little more understandable with an e body if they've replaced the dash & were too lazy to either use the old ones or buy new ones.


Any trooper or state inspector that knows what they are doing will immediately be intrigued by the round rivets.  They live for this stuff, trying to find stolen rigs, etc.  Once they see that & the rad. support #'s are different they'll most likely take only those #'s & run them in the computer.

Do you have a friend that might be a LEO that can run the broadcast sheet # VIN.  I know we have one that's a member.

[mopartybob]

I'm always apprehensive when seeing the round rivets attaching a VIN plate.

It's a little more understandable with an e body if they've replaced the dash & were too lazy to either use the old ones or buy new ones.

on the lighter side and from what I've read about the Lynch Road plant, ANYTHING can happen when it comes to tags,vins, and such... 

[69rtse4spd]

Sounds like a Buddy's Hemi 500, but that is another story. I would just enjoy it if it is already in your name. If not in your name AND you want to do the right thing, think long & hard about options before you do.

[Old School]

It turns out that the guy before me got the car from a junkyard. So I assume that they had this car and no title but
did have another car out back that did, so they changed vin numbers. Let's assume this is what happened, how do you
go about fixing that issue? I'm not going to just assume since the vin has been changed that the car is stolen. It would really suck
if that was the case. Why wouldn't they just apply for a new title if they wanted to sell the damn car?
Just knowing that the vin plate has been changed and doesn't match the body vin kinda makes a guy a little
uneasy. What if by some chance it does get noticed and questions are asked?

[tan top]

 this is difficult cause what if !!  , part of me wants to go along with whats been said !!  yes forget all about it & drive it ,
but what if you sink a load of dough in it , &  then few years from now turns out it was stolen , & the owner or insurance company wants it back !!    

not trying to stir anything up , no offence meant   , this is the things i think about ,  not sure how the legal side would work out , just suppose you were out on a cruse one day , & was involved in a wreck & someone dies or gets injured , would your insurance be invalid , because the car you insured is not what the cars real identity  , insurance companys look for any discrepency to riggle out of paying out !!   , but that's  opening another can of worms to a re body although if re boding your going to remove all traces of the original cars vin numbers 

[1carcrazyguy]

If you get pulled over or ever have an officer look at the VIN, and he/she spots the "non original" rivets.  That could be the end of the line of having the car in your  possession.  

[JB400]

Talk to the guy you bought the car off of and both of you get your paperwork together and talk to the dmv.

Maybe, the state will still let you have the car with a state registered title.

[Old Moparz]

Something to consider is that once you start making inquiries with the past owners, the DMV, the police, or other agencies, it can be a can of worms. If you can find out the correct procedure to clear things in your state before you get the ball rolling, you will be better off. Never volunteer specific info up front about the vehicle or bring the car somewhere to be looked at. I'd try the DMV website in your state first & see if they have info.

It might sound like I am saying you should hide the problem or lie, but I'm not. I'm a firm believer in that info like this is on a "need to know basis" & nobody needs to know just yet. There are too many self righteous types that want a pat on the back from a supervisor & will jump to conclusions to look good & not care about you, the car, or what you're trying to do. Whatever info you are given, (verbally) try to verify it with another person like a manager or supervisor before accepting it as law.

Once I had asked a DMV clerk about transferring ownership of a car so I can sell it & was given the wrong info. I spent days tracking down marriage, divorce & death certificates, then papers to prove power of attorney & miscellaneous estate info that were all out of state. I went back & got a different clerk who said, "What's all this for? You don't need it."   

If the car really did come out of a junkyard it sounds like someone was either too lazy to get a legit title for it, or that your state doesn't allow salvage title cars to go back on the road & this was a way around it. Some states do allow it but the procedure, cost & inspection is slow & a time consuming process. Someone suggested having a law enforcement friend help find out about the car's past & whether it may have ever been stolen. You might want to first check the numbers on the build sheet & not your VIN tag.

Good luck.

[Troy]

I don't know what to tell you but what are the odds of having 2 sunroof cars in the same junkyard?

Troy

[AKcharger]

There are too many self righteous types that want a pat on the back from a supervisor & will jump to conclusions to look good & not care about you, the car, or what you're trying to do.

Good advise, get the answers to your questions BEFORE you self ID. something like "A friend of mine has a car he bought from a junkyard back in the 70's..."

I do think it was just a case of lazy Junkyard guys...they're worse than Carnies!

Best of luck

[ws23rt]

I don't know what to tell you but what are the odds of having 2 sunroof cars in the same junkyard?

Troy

I was thinking the same thing but stranger things have happened. A junkyard guy maybe saw an opportunity.
I see the vin tag with wrong rivets as being trouble. It is a shame that something like that for a few bucks at the time can have such a long term down the road affect.
I had a vin issue when I bought my hemi coronet. After a long story and had it home I noticed that on the title was a v where a j should have been. Of all the possible errors that could happen why the one about the hemi? I cleared it up with an inspection by state trooper as mentioned earlier and was glad it was that easy.

[mopartybob]

Has the car been registered to you...   

[Paul G]

The vin on the build sheets which were in the correct locations and they match the vin on the rad support. It called out a sunroof car which it is. So the build sheets match the body of the car correct? The dash vin tag matches nothing, and has been this way since 1979 according to the previous owner?

My take is this;
Worst case is the body the vin belongs too was totaled, no insurance, owner screwed badly. Or someone bought a totaled car for scrap, gets the car for cheap, with a good title and vin tag off the dash. He goes and steals another 74, swaps the vin tag on the dash, removes the door tag and removes the fender tag. Easy enough right. This happened a lot back then. Now the title matches the dash vin tag and no one really looked any further than that. Back then it was easy to do. Lots of these cars around and easy to steal. Now, today you could be screwed if you investigate and/or report it. A real dilemma you face.

Since this happened in 1979 when the car was only 4 years old, and just paid off since most auto loans then were only 36 month loans, I cant think of any way that would make this non matching vin ordeal legit.

It could be that the car you now own was paid off by the insurance company after the theft and the insurance company really has no concern about recovering the car now. If this is the case you can rest easy knowing the car is yours now free and clear. Even then what do you do about mis matched vins?  If the insurance company claims ownership you could lose the car. Or end up in a court fight between the insurance company, the previous owner, etc.

[mopartybob]

The vin on the build sheets which were in the correct locations and they match the vin on the rad support. It called out a sunroof car which it is. So the build sheets match the body of the car correct? The dash vin tag matches nothing, and has been this way since 1979 according to the previous owner?

My take is this;
Worst case is the body the vin belongs too was totaled, no insurance, owner screwed badly. Or someone bought a totaled car for scrap, gets the car for cheap, with a good title and vin tag off the dash. He goes and steals another 74, swaps the vin tag on the dash, removes the door tag and removes the fender tag. Easy enough right. This happened a lot back then. Now the title matches the dash vin tag and no one really looked any further than that. Back then it was easy to do. Lots of these cars around and easy to steal. Now, today you could be screwed if you investigate and/or report it. A real dilemma you face.

Since this happened in 1979 when the car was only 4 years old, and just paid off since most auto loans then were only 36 month loans, I cant think of any way that would make this non matching vin ordeal legit.

It could be that the car you now own was paid off by the insurance company after the theft and the insurance company really has no concern about recovering the car now. If this is the case you can rest easy knowing the car is yours now free and clear. Even then what do you do about mis matched vins?  If the insurance company claims ownership you could lose the car. Or end up in a court fight between the insurance company, the previous owner, etc.

On a happier note, while the above is true, maybe this was done by the original owner who bought the car back from the insurance co.after an accident and did rebuild the car with a scrapped / salvaged title from the "other" car... maybe it could be the front clip and rad sup. were salvaged  all kinds of screwy things happened back in the 70"s with repair yards and the DMV,along with unscrupulous other entities in order to salvage a car to make it legal ..........

[AKcharger]

...He goes and steals another 74, swaps the vin tag on the dash, removes the door tag and removes the fender tag. Easy enough right. This happened a lot back then...

My Step brother was a MASTER at that! Saw him do that to at least 5 E-bodies when I pal'd around him when I was in High school (It's seemed fishy but to a teenager I didn't think much of it) In fact, I know there's someone out there with a Black 1970 Hemi Challanger convertible  that's "re-bodied" wonder if they know 

[Ghoste]

That's why I get so pissed about so much of the rebody stuff.  Its a slippery slope man.

[Old Moparz]

That's why I get so pissed about so much of the rebody stuff.  Its a slippery slope man.

Same here, but anyone that favors VIN tag swaps will never change their mind & still say it's harmless.  

Years ago, maybe 1982 or so, I bought a 1970 GTX that had a title with the buyer's name erased & re-written. The car changed hands at least 3 times without ever being registered before I bought it. Obviously the DMV wouldn't accept it, so I took the long road to solve it. The guy I bought it from never titled it, the guy he bought it from bought it from never titled it & had gotten it from another state where it was titled in two names. The DMV said I had to get the two people listed as the owner to get a new title. I wrote a letter to them explaining the situation & asking for help & also needed to write a letter & have it notarized that the car wasn't fraudulently acquired.  

It took 9 months to finally straighten this mess out. During this time I met a guy at a swap meet selling parts. We were talking about car stuff & the title problem I had came up. He outright offered to sell me a dash frame with a VIN tag from a 1970 GTX WITH A TITLE for $400.     I could have literally swapped frames & tags in a weekend & go back to the DMV & avoid the 9 month hassle. I suppose this kind of crap was & is common, but even 30 years ago for a $400 car I wouldn't get involved with it.

[Cooter]

I have a puzzle that is just driving me crazy. I have a 74 Charger SE that I bought about 7 years ago. I got it without a motor or trany, so i put one in
and have just been driving it. I decided to put a new interior in it a couple weeks ago so I started taking the old one out last weekend. I found two build sheets in the car, one behind the back seat and the other under the carpet. They match each other. I quickly checked them out to make sure they called out a sunroof car which I have and they did, I never bothered to check the VIN at that time. I sat down that night to decode the sheet and quickly noticed that the VIN did not match, so I thought that I had the sheets for some other sunroof car. The VIN on the car states it had a 318 and made at Lynch Road, the build sheet says 400 HP and made at St Louis. I checked the door sticker for the VIN and it is just a blank sticker nothing on it. I checked the cowl for the VIN nothing there, so I checked behind the radiator support and found the VIN that matches the build sheet. There was no fender tag on the car when I got it. The VIN tag has the round rivets not the rosette style that is supposed to be there? Any thoughts, theories?

SO is the car registered in your name yet?
If so, and the title is clear, and as long as you aren't concerned with selling it, then you should be ok. I've seen this done a million times. Only time it becomes a problem is when someone wants to resell for HUGE money thinking they got a "Rare" car.

[maxwellwedge]

...He goes and steals another 74, swaps the vin tag on the dash, removes the door tag and removes the fender tag. Easy enough right. This happened a lot back then...

My Step brother was a MASTER at that! Saw him do that to at least 5 E-bodies when I pal'd around him when I was in High school (It's seemed fishy but to a teenager I didn't think much of it) In fact, I know there's someone out there with a Black 1970 Hemi Challanger convertible  that's "re-bodied" wonder if they know 

Is that the so called Reggie Jackson car that burned? It is about 5 miles from me

[AKcharger]

...He goes and steals another 74, swaps the vin tag on the dash, removes the door tag and removes the fender tag. Easy enough right. This happened a lot back then...

My Step brother was a MASTER at that! Saw him do that to at least 5 E-bodies when I pal'd around him when I was in High school (It's seemed fishy but to a teenager I didn't think much of it) In fact, I know there's someone out there with a Black 1970 Hemi Challanger convertible  that's "re-bodied" wonder if they know 

Is that the so called Reggie Jackson car that burned? It is about 5 miles from me

Unknown. Last time I saw it, it was at his house in New Port Richey Fl in 1982. He had a nice 383 vert for the body, a '70 warranty block Hemi, a Hemi K frame and Dash pad & fender tags.  He was trying to find a shaker set-up for it. I suspect he swapped the big parts and sold it as a "project". He ripped me off on a 3:91 gear so I stopped hanging out with him...he was dirt!

[Old School]

Well after a VIN check everything comes up clean no problems. Nobody seems to know how to fix it. Anybody know if this is going to
be a problem insurance wise?

[Old Moparz]

In all the years of driving & having cars insured, I've never had an insurance company ask me questions about, or look at the VIN tags. They want the number for the policy & either a verbal on the phone, a fax, or written on the paperwork is all they need. Now if the car was wrecked & you file a claim, or somehow you were involved with an accident, I bet they would definitely want verify the VIN tag at that point. It's one of those chances that only you can decide if you want to take it or not.

[AKcharger]

Well after a VIN check everything comes up clean no problems. Nobody seems to know how to fix it. Anybody know if this is going to
be a problem insurance wise?

Which VIN the current one on the car or the "Old" VIN?

[Old School]

The old vin was checked, not the one on the dash.

[Paul G]

No claims against that vin is a good thing. Now was that check just in your home state? Or would it have checked nation wide?

[AKcharger]

Hmmmm wonder if you can have a new title created and with a legal title a new VIN tag 

[Old School]

Well that's a good question, the DMV did the check.

[AKcharger]

Similar problem:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/reproduction-vin-tags-194325.html

sources
http://vin-tag.com/
http://www.datatags.com/