Headlight doors not working (1969)

[MaximRecoil]

I hooked a manual vacuum pump up to one of the two "T"s down near the headlight doors, and it opened the doors fine. I then hooked it to the other "T" and it closed the doors fine.

I started the engine and checked for vacuum on the two hoses that go to those two "T"s. With the headlight switch in the off position, there was vacuum on one of them, and no vacuum on the other, and vice versa when the switch was in the on position.

So based on the results of those two tests, it seems to me that the doors should work, but they don't. The doors do nothing whatsoever when the hoses are hooked to the "T"s.

Also, when everything is hooked up, if you manually open one headlight door it closes the other, and vice versa. Is that normal?

[Fred]

I think you might have the hoses mixed up.

Make sure the vacuum hose (with the yellow stripe) from the T connection is connected to the top of the headlight door Actuators on both sides. And the plain black hose from the T is connected to the bottom of the headlight door Actuators.

Good luck.

[fy469rtse]

i agree you have got one of them back to front , one is trying to open and the other trying to close , so you have a block in vacuum , does that make sense, or you are loosing vacuumn at the head light switch, theres' a few places that can give you grief

[MaximRecoil]

I think you might have the hoses mixed up.

Make sure the vacuum hose (with the yellow stripe) from the T connection is connected to the top of the headlight door Actuators on both sides. And the plain black hose from the T is connected to the bottom of the headlight door Actuators.

The hoses are hooked up according to how things worked when I connected the manual vacuum pump to the T's, i.e., the T that opened the headlight doors when connected to the manual pump, I connected to the hose that had vacuum when the headlight switch was turned on, and the T that closed the headlight doors when connected to the manual pump, I connected to the hose that had vacuum when the headlight switch was turned off.

I'm not sure about the yellow stripe. All the hoses looked plain black to me, but I could look closer next time to see if there's a yellow stripe on any of them.

i agree you have got one of them back to front , one is trying to open and the other trying to close , so you have a block in vacuum , does that make sense,

No, because they work properly when connected to a manual vacuum pump (like this one). That's what's so baffling about it: a manual vacuum pump opens and closes them just fine, yet engine vacuum won't.

or you are loosing vacuumn at the head light switch, theres' a few places that can give you grief

No, because of this:

I started the engine and checked for vacuum on the two hoses that go to those two "T"s. With the headlight switch in the off position, there was vacuum on one of them, and no vacuum on the other, and vice versa when the switch was in the on position.

That means that the headlight switch, bulkhead connector, vacuum canister, and hoses are all holding vacuum, and that the headlight switch is properly switching vacuum between the two paths to the two T's.

The headlight doors opening and closing properly when a manual vacuum pump is connected to the T's means that the actuators work properly, and that the 4 sections of hoses coming off the T's are connected to the correct ports on the actuators.

It makes no sense. It seems to me that it should work, based on the results of the tests.

[Back N Black]

I had a problem with doors opening very slowly, it was due to weak vacuum. The headlight vacuum switch worked but the spring was weak and losing vacuum. i rebuilt the vacuum switch and now it  works great.
On another note, the vauum pods for a 68 and 69 are different. 68 pods has a magnet to hold doors and the 69 has a small piece of metal to hold the doors open, so if you have 68 pods and using 69 setup with the metal strip it would take more vacuum to pull it open or closed.

[MaximRecoil]

I had a problem with doors opening very slowly, it was due to weak vacuum. The headlight vacuum switch worked but the spring was weak and losing vacuum. i rebuilt the vacuum switch and now it  works great.
On another note, the vauum pods for a 68 and 69 are different. 68 pods has a magnet to hold doors and the 69 has a small piece of metal to hold the doors open, so if you have 68 pods and using 69 setup with the metal strip it would take more vacuum to pull it open or closed.

It is a '69 grille with the strips of springy metal to hold the doors open/closed. However, there seems to be good vacuum at the hoses that connect to the T's (should be a lot more vacuum there than that manual vacuum pump can deliver, yet the manual pump will open and close the doors no problem), yet nothing happens. The doors don't even open or close slowly when connected to those hoses; they just do nothing.

[twodko]

Maybe your vac reservoir can isn't holding enough vacuum?

[Dino]

Remove battery + tray and check the vacuum cannister for leaks and check all the hoses running to the dash.  If that checks out, check the vacuum attachment on the headlight switch.

You can alsp open the doors manually with the engine running and check for leaks.  If your engine is not too noisy you should be able to hear leaks.

[nascarxx29]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10158.0.html

[MaximRecoil]

I was wrong about the headlight doors not doing anything at all. It turns out that they do work, just very slowly (I wasn't waiting long enough before to see them doing anything). With the engine running, maybe 3 or 4 minutes after turning on the headlights, the passenger side headlight door starts to open very slowly. Once it is fully open, a couple of minutes later the driver side headlight door starts to slowly open. After maybe 7 or 8 minutes they are both fully open and stay open.

So there is obviously a leak somewhere. I know the vacuum canister and the hose to it are fine, because if you take off the smaller output hose, there is strong vacuum on that port. I know that the actuators are fine, because they open and close the headlight doors quickly when using the manual vacuum pump. So that leaves the bulkhead connector, the vacuum switch behind the headlight switch, or the associated hoses. The hoses seem to be in decent shape, so I suspect that the problem is with the switch, as mentioned by Back N Black:

I had a problem with doors opening very slowly, it was due to weak vacuum. The headlight vacuum switch worked but the spring was weak and losing vacuum. i rebuilt the vacuum switch and now it  works great.

I think I'll check into that.

[fy469rtse]

I would look at the headlight vacuum switch being the culprit here, I had the same trouble, you can rebuild them , they have a small slide inside the which moves with switch to open different air passages as it slides up and down with switch, relies on a small tension type spring plate those slide against housing, rebend that so holds the slide with more force, I also put a smear of lithium grease to help slide and to assist vacuum sealing, just a smear  you don't have any excess sucked up the lines, worked a treat and never gave me any trouble again , oh just in case your wondering once I had vacuum apart I just glued it back together again

[MaximRecoil]

I took the vacuum switch out, washed it with soap and water, dried it, put white lithium grease in there, and there was no change. I was getting good vacuum up to the switch in the center hose, and when I connected the switch, I didn't hear any hissing, so I decided to find out for sure if the switch was the culprit or not. I removed the switch and bypassed it with a short section of 3/16" hose, and the headlight doors opened just as slowly as they did with the switch in place. I then connected a hose directly from the vacuum canister to one of the T's and it opened the doors instantly, and connecting it to the other T closed the doors instantly.

Then my mechanic friend suggested using an airhose to blow through those hoses that lead from the switch to the T's. Doing that, we quickly found that one of the hoses had a split in it, which we repaired. The other hose was partially plugged up. After several blasts with the airhose, whatever was obstructing it flew out, bounced off the battery, and hit my friend, leaving a small cut on his cheek.

After that, the headlight doors worked okay using the switch, but not great. It took maybe 15-20 seconds for the doors to fully open, (which is a lot better than 5 minutes), and 15-20 seconds to fully close. I then removed the switch and once again bypassed it with a short section of 3/16" hose, and it took the same 15-20 seconds as it did with the switch, so there must be a small leak somewhere in those hoses that go from the switch to the T's, or maybe a small leak and/or obstruction in the hose that goes from the vacuum canister up to the switch.

[MaximRecoil]

So how would I go about replacing the vacuum hoses? Do the original hoses just pull off of the molded rubber block that connects to the vacuum switch? Also, how do you deal with the part that goes through the firewall? Do the original hoses just pull out of that rubber plug?

[Cooter]

Yes, Check the hoses well. I had the same basic problem and found out just how far up a hose a "Dirt Dobber" can burrow. (1 Ft. ) Had Good vacuum, just not enough to pull those doors up through all that "clogg".

[MaximRecoil]

So has anyone here replaced all of the headlight door vacuum system hoses without buying an expensive reproduction set? I'm still wondering about the best way to deal with connecting new hoses to the molded rubber block that plugs onto the vacuum switch, and the best way to run new hoses through the firewall.

I know I could cut the original hoses off close to the molded rubber block and close to the plug that goes through the firewall, and then use connectors like this to connect new hoses, but I'd like to do it without using connectors if possible.

[Cooter]

So has anyone here replaced all of the headlight door vacuum system hoses without buying an expensive reproduction set? I'm still wondering about the best way to deal with connecting new hoses to the molded rubber block that plugs onto the vacuum switch, and the best way to run new hoses through the firewall.

I know I could cut the original hoses off close to the molded rubber block and close to the plug that goes through the firewall, and then use connectors like this to connect new hoses, but I'd like to do it without using connectors if possible.

In a word, Nope. Not without re-using the "block" on the end. But, as noted, I haven't seen aLot of these hoses Dry rotted. Many are still plyable even after 40 years. Most times, they just need a coathanger run through them to insure no blockages.

[MaximRecoil]

In a word, Nope. Not without re-using the "block" on the end. But, as noted, I haven't seen aLot of these hoses Dry rotted. Many are still plyable even after 40 years. Most times, they just need a coathanger run through them to insure no blockages.

So the block is molded right onto the ends of the original hoses? How about the plug in the firewall? Is that molded onto the original hoses as well?

Edit: I just went up to the garage to take a look. I pried the plug out of the firewall to see what it consisted of, and the hoses are indeed molded into that plug, or glued, or otherwise permanently attached. I also noticed that all 3 of the hoses are dry-rotted / weather-cracked up where they enter the plug from the engine bay side.

I think what I'll do is this: cut the original hoses off that firewall plug on both sides, leaving short sections of the 3 dry-rotted hoses attached to it. Then I'll push a connector through each short section of remaining hose, so that they stick out on both sides (I'll probably make the connectors from copper-nickel brake line [flared on both ends] so that I can get enough length for them to stick out enough on both sides). Then I'll have ports to attach new hoses on both sides of the firewall, and they will still be secured in the rubber firewall plug. I'll attach the new hoses to the molded rubber block in a similar way, i.e., cut the original hoses off of it leaving short sections to push connectors into.