Is it hard to join the Navy?

[Paul G]

Not a concern for me, I am too old and broken for the military. My son has been trying to get in for months. He is 28, close to a bachelors degree, has a problem in his past, DUI about 5 years ago. The Navy recruiter has him jumping through all kinds of hoops, lose 10 pounds, get all his college transcripts together, come up with three hand written personal references, things like that. As of now everything the recruiter has asked for has been done. He is just waiting for the call to take the MEPS and get a date to report to boot camp.

Is it really this difficult to join the service?

[69rtse4spd]

I have heard that with the cutbacks they can get picky. There is a guy working the box (truck) line here that was a boomer in the air force, was cut due to the budget. .

[ACUDANUT]

Join the Army. They take anyone. 

[Paul G]

Join the Army. They take anyone. 

Not so. Army, Air Force and Marines would not take him with the dui.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I've been sitting here for a ship date for the USAF for a few months now...      joining the service today is NOTHING like joining back a few decades ago....    

I scored---  98 on the ASVAB, 89 on the EDPT, 132 on the D-LAB and qualified for CCT, TACP, EOD, SERE, and SOWT on the fitness test (Missed PJ by a few seconds on the run) - no criminal past, already have a secret clearance, national honors society, B.A. Degree, Two A.A. Degrees, and having recently lost 150lbs....


So...   with what my recruiter calls "EXTREMELY high scores and the fact I am going into a severely undermanned career field (EOD or CCT) I should be able to book an AFSC quickly...."   well...    it's been months....      


Tell him to talk to the recruiter and just get a no-bullshit assessment on his process.  OR   Go to a different recruiter and see if they will be better.


If he is trying to get commissioned as an Officer there is his problem. Effectively, all branches are closed for officer recruitment off the street. the USAF right now as a whole is closed for recruitment. things are bad right now.  Just get in - even if it is enlisted and then drop a packet for commissioning.

[twodko]

 "If he is trying to get commissioned as an Officer there is his problem. Effectively, all branches are closed for officer recruitment off the street. the USAF right now as a whole is closed for recruitment. things are bad right now.  Just get in - even if it is enlisted and then drop a packet for commissioning."

True that. Our government...blame whom you want......is so broke that even the sacred military budgets have suffered dearly the last couple years. The last three administrations have bankrupt this country and everyone is paying for this criminal fiscal mismanagement. I'm not a follower of conspiracy theories BUT it does make you wonder why it's so damn hard to buy firearms/ammo these days. Fodder for another thread.

How close is he to getting his degree? What is his major? As for the DUI.....a DUI is a DUI but was there personal injury/death involved? Court ordered jail time beyond the initial drunk tank time. 5 years ago is not a deal breaker if what he has to offer is substantial.

I agree with contacting another recruiter but they will discovered past efforts with another recruiter. He needs to make himself highly desirable. Effort letters of recommendation from as many politicians as possible beginning in his home town etc.

"DUI, no branch will take him" is a blanket statement that quite possibly won't hold water. It's all about what he has to offer and what his realistic commitment is. I.E. A four year hitch because the economy offers no jobs or does he intend to make a career in the military?

While there is something to be said about getting in as enlisted, the mustang climb is not what it used to be.....read OCS.

It is imperative he keep his face in their face AND do so with his degree in hand. "Close to getting his degree" is spitting in the wind. 

[71charger_fan]

For months, the Navy's been running PSAs on AFN addressing sailors regarding the process to decide who to keep and who to let go as the Navy downsizes. When they're in the process of cutting the current fleet, it's harder to get them to take you on as a new sailor needing even basic training.

[Paul G]

How close is he to getting his degree? What is his major? As for the DUI.....a DUI is a DUI but was there personal injury/death involved? Court ordered jail time beyond the initial drunk tank time. 5 years ago is not a deal breaker if what he has to offer is substantial.

He needs another semester which he cant afford. His major is criminal justice, go figure with the dui. It was misdemeanor dui not felony thank god. No one hurt or any thing like that. He had to do community service and pay, and pay, and pay.

One of his references was from a professor of his who is also a states attorney. The recruiter knows he wants to ultimately be involved in Law Enforcement & Security.    

[twodko]

Hey Paul,

Thank goodness the DUI is "light" so to speak. A military career in criminal justice is a tough row to hoe unless he is a shyster.......lawyer. I won't go there about lawyers.

The standout desirables that are always desirables are: electrical engineering, mechanical engineering with an emphasis on marine engineering, computer science, physics for obvious reasons and the medical corps as in doctors.
I'm sure the are other vocations the military would look at closely but these are all that come to mind. 

[NHCharger]

My nephew who is 30 just joined the Navy. He spent the better part of a year jumping through the hoops that you described. He's in boot camp right now.

[billfury]

Wow has things changed. When I was younger it was join the Marines or go to jail. Military was a place for HS quitters and the 1% crowd.

[41husk]

wow when I went in in 79 there were people who joined because the judge gave them a choice to either go into the service or go to jail.

[RECHRGD]

I have a useless ex son in law that could not keep a job in the private sector.  He BS'd his way into the officer training program over ten years ago.  He now makes over 80K a year and on top of that the Navy gives him around 2K a month for off base housing.  From what my daughter tells me, he doesn't do much of anything, but thinks very highly of himself.  Your tax dollars at work.  My late father in law was career Navy and a World War II vet.  This guy couldn't hold a candle to him.....

[ACUDANUT]

Just wait until there is another war. They were taking convicted felons 10 years ago, and that's no bull.
On a side note, they will always need recruits to keep up with the four years and out types (majority). Not to mention to keep the Boot Camps and Basic training courses going.

[Cooter]

Gubment is running outta money. They all but refuse now. Of course, till there is another war.

[Tilar]

Gubment is running outta money.

Where's "Tim the Toolman" Taylor when you need him? He could wire those babies with 440 volts and supercharge those printing presses. They'd be able to print out a couple trillion before lunch time.     Oh wait, isn't that what they're doing now?

[Drache]

Apply for the Army, if they turn you down, the Navy will accept you 

I'm just kidding to all the Swabbies out there pointing guns at me...   

[twodko]

We point harpoons first.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well - I know right now the USAF is only about 70% staffed on Security Forces - but there is the DUI problem.  Have him contact another USAF recruiter and see if he gets the same story...    tell him to lick ass as much as he needs to -

[AKcharger]

It's supply and demand...It's great when you retire though!

[Rolling_Thunder]

It's supply and demand...It's great when you retire though!

I think they key to that is promoting to an -O- ranking....   I'm going into the USAF with the slowest enlisted promotion ever....    my recruiter just left at 22 years as an E-7...   that's only about $52,000 in base pay.


Another guy I know is at 21 years and is a O5 - just his base pay is around $97,000

[Paul G]

My son tells me, the recruiter tells him, he will go in as an E3 because of his previous education and could possibly make E5 in less than two years. What does all that really mean?

[Drache]

My son tells me, the recruiter tells him, he will go in as an E3 because of his previous education and could possibly make E5 in less than two years. What does all that really mean?

E-3 is the final step in an "apprenticeship" sort of thing. It states they are still learning their field. Regular Seaman if you will. E-4 to E-6 are "non-commissioned officers" otherwise known as Petty Officers. They do the work of Regular Seaman but then also get to boss around the E-1 to E-3 newbies

[mauve66]

i just saw a documentary on all the riff raf going into the military from gangs and all the gang affiliations showing up overseas, how did those guys get in??

[AKcharger]

Hey Rolling a few things about AF promotions and I'm sure this applies to all services:

-Don't get overly wrapped up in current promotion rates, it's a constant cycle good and bad. Trick is to ALWAYS do your best so you'll balance it out. As for the recruiter there's just way to many variables, how long has he been a recruiter, how long has he been out of his career field etc.  I'll tell you this...in the past 22 years there WERE good promotion years, perhaps the recruiter didn't get serious till later when rates were bad.

- Pick career field very very carefully. what you'll find is the smaller the career field the more difficult promotions and the larger the career field the better. So, generally the cool jobs like Air Traffic Control, Flight Engineer, Radiology has AWFUL promotion rates because the field is so small. As opposed to Munitions, Aircraft Maintenance etc. which is big and has lots of opportunity's

- While being an officer is a lofty goal there is a diffrence between enlisted and commisioned careers. Generally, if you're enlisted and you show up for work everyday you can be assured of a 20 year career if you want , that's NOT the case as a "O". Let me tell you two stories; 1992 force drawdown - AF askes people if they want to get out, offers bonus' and to some early retirements, no one forced out. 2006 Officer only drawdown - Local commanders told to interview and "rack and stack" all Jr. officers then cut the bottom, officers cut given small severance pay and told they must be gone in 120 days. No recourse or  warning...VERY RUDE considering a good number were PRIOR ENLISTED who crossed over and now can't even go back to being enlisted...they are completly done with Active duty Air Force

AK
(CMSgt ret. 27 years)

[Rolling_Thunder]

Yes - 2006 was rough for the USAF. A guy I know made it through the Academy - got to his unit - and was handed discharge paperwork after 83 days.


Well I am dumb enough to pick a tiny career field and I know the promotions suffer - however, if you're there for the money you're there for the wrong reasons. I plan on doing my 4 years and getting out unless i commission.  My ultimate goal is law enforcement - but the state PDs here in CA are looking for OTW (Other than White) applicants it seems.

So - career field is between CCT and EOD - just seeing what opens up first. (EOD does suck because I would have two different promotion tests; A dedicated EOD test as well as a Civil Engineering exam)

Paul -  it means he won't be starting at the bottom of the barrel...   Even holding a B.S. degree he will only go in as an E3 - the USAF does the same.  The Army will enter as an E-4 and the USMC as an E-2....   

He will probably be allowed to waive his promotion time needed down because of college (For instance - my USAF promotion from E3 to E4 requires 36 months TIS with 20 months TIG, or 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first. So TIS meaning having been in the USAF for 36 months and 20 of those months being as a E3 (TIG). OR - 28 months as an E3 ---  so going in as an E3 I have to wait 28 months to promote to E4 ---  but this is waivable down to 22 months ---    it all depends on how well you do your job and how well your command likes you...

[70moparman]

Tried to join the Navy my senior year of highschool ~ they wouldnt take me becuase they said I had a "criminal record"     Shit happens when you party naked... 

[twodko]

Hell man, part of my Navy basic training back in the day was tactical naked partying!

[ACUDANUT]

Doing that with a bunch of other dudes. 

[twodko]

No man, naked partying with the female sailors - Waves. It was referred to as "raiding the wave cage". 

The only naked partying with guy sailors on guy sailors is in the British Navy.

[mauve66]

No man, naked partying with the female sailors - Waves. It was referred to as "raiding the wave cage". 

The only naked partying with guy sailors on guy sailors is in the British Navy.

that's just SOP for them

[Iceyone]

All services are getting pickier and pickier, criminals are not allowed anymore. Back when I joined the Navy in 1986, I talked to the recruiter on Monday, went to MEPS on Wednesday and landed in San Diego on Friday for bootcamp. My whole family was shocked.

For Rolling Thunder the "E" ranking is Enlisted, the "O" ranking is Officer. An E-7 (like I was when I retired) also collects a nice tax-free monthly housing and food allowance, besides the measly $52K salary.

[Paul G]

I talked to my son Yesterday. He says he has to write one more paper, this time explaining the under age drinking situation he got in to when he was 18, that was 10 years ago. So they have not turned him down as of yet, just putting one more hoop in front of him to jump through. He is not giving up and I think that may be what they are waiting for him to do. It has been almost a year now since he first went in to the recruiters office. I really hope for his sake that the Navy finally gives in and lets him join up. Don't know what else has to do other than keep doing what they ask until they finally have enough information and set him up for MEPS. 

[twodko]

Good news Paul. I'm not speaking from a position of bias but I have never known a sailor that didn't do well after his/her tour.
He'll make it. Anchors aweigh.

[Paul G]

I would like to see him stay in for 20 years and retire with a pension. He will be 49 years old and have steady income for the rest of his life, and be young enough to start a second career when he gets out. But that is up to him after he gets in and decides if he likes it or not.

[twodko]

Nowadays, he'll have to put it out to make 20. I hope he does.

[twodko]

Hey Paul!

Just thought I'd throw this out to pass along to your son. I lose my health insurance tomorrow BUT I found out from some vet buddies that I'm eligible for VA health and Rx benefits at little or no cost! I sent the app in a couple weeks ago and received my enrollment docs earlier this week. 37 years after my 6 year enlistment and my GI Bill benes are still there for me. Granted the GI bill, VA benes have changed some since my time but when you are a vet you DO have options. I paid for it down range.......in advance, but its still working for me.

Had my first VA visit yesterday for my ID card and an orientation appointment Monday! Hooyah!

FYI.....

[ACUDANUT]

Going to the VA was a horrible experience for me. I felt like I was at a soup line and surrounded by homeless people. 

[Paul G]

My father in law uses the VA still and he is 84. He says it is not the best care in the world, you have to stay on top of the docs because they do make mistakes. But the price is right for routine stuff.

[b5blue]

  On that point all must remember, anyone with a DD214 can show up at any VHA and get help. Not just medical, job placement even homeless assistance. It's your right as one who served. I work for the VHA in logistics and chose this job, to help our Veterans because THEY are why we are FREE.
  I met Charlie on the elevator one day, spunky older guy. When I asked if he needed any assistance he replied: Ya where are all the hot nurses hanging out?  We had a good laugh and he told me after surviving "The Battle of the Bulge" every day is a gift from God, enjoy it! Every day I see more and more young Veterans, many missing some part of their body.....we have a debit to pay to any who signed on the line. If you know any Veteran in any need PLEASE get them to the VHA. 
 

[Paul G]

Thanks for that Neal. Veterans are the most important part of our society.

My son called today asking for date of birth and current addresses for us and his step siblings. That is the latest thing the recruiter has asked him for. They sure are being thorough I guess. He said that all the jobs he is interested in are on the east coast. For whatever that means?

[b5blue]

  The "new" Combined Services Force isn't just looking for raw manpower. Military is cutting edge tech and background checks are vital to understanding who you can trust long term, with information that is vital for our modern world survival. I think they now realize that any potential hire must be beyond stable, more like rock solid in every aspect of their life. Given the economy and the reduction in force they can afford to be even more choosy. I know a good young man who wanted to go Marine yet was rejected for a tattoo. He said there was some remote possibility of someone thinking gang related or something to that effect. It was disheartening for him.
  I'm sure your son will be fine, I can see real background checks taking many months to complete. They would not waist any time/money if he was not a real candidate.           

[twodko]

I'm tellin' ya Paul, b5 has it right. Your boy will be offered the pen.

[b5blue]

Going to the VA was a horrible experience for me. I felt like I was at a soup line and surrounded by homeless people. 

I'm at Bay Pines, it's a huge facility with 3,500 employees and a regional office (VARO) also located on campus. I regret you felt that way, the pool of Veterans come from all walks of life and lets face it, your there for some degree of help of some reason. (It is your right!) Your never "judged" by staff, of that be sure. Being in the loop as an employee and a Veteran I'm much more aware of how hard the VA and VHA is working to stream line the system and constantly increase efficiency while reducing cost even while the number of Veterans increase.
  I had never set foot on a VA facility after leaving the USAF until over 20 years later. I was amazed at the care, concern and treatment I received, the thoroughness of a total heath examination including tests and scans of all types and even a card to take home that you mail back with a sample of poop so they can check. All this done not at my demand but just because I showed up at their door with my ID and a DD214. That was it for me, I had to work with this team in some form or fashion and encourage anyone to seek the same.       

[Paul G]

I work with a guy right now who is just 60 years old and wants to retire early. He is single, if he leaves the company now he will not have health insurance till he turns 65 and can get on medicare, except for the VA. He can retire early like he wants to and use the VA till medicare kicks in. It is a great option for Vets.

[twodko]

Thanks for stepping up Neal, not only for yourself but for the rest of us too. The VA has made some impressive strides in the last decade improving everything it does. You remember how bad the VA was for us Nam era vets. Not so anymore IMO.

Tom

[ACUDANUT]

I invite all to the KCMO VA hospital. That will change your mind in a hurry about asking for care. It was a one and done trip for me. Never again. I hope other places are better. Just remember, you are getting what you pay for.  
Did you know that as a retired Marine reservist (28 years)  I have to pay 70.00 bucks a month for Dental Care (Delta Dental.Military) and 120.00 a Month for Health Care (Tricare).  No free benefits.  What a bargain.    I also have to wait until age 60 to get any monthly check. Don't think for a second us retired reservist have it made.

[charge69]

I worked at the Houston VA hospital as a state employee helping veterans get treated and/or apply for benefits and make it thru the maze of rules and regulations involved. This was mid-'80's thru 1998 and went from the old WWll Navy Hospital (about 1946 it became the VA Hospital) to the new Michael DeBakey VA hospital that stands where the old original 9 hole golf course for the older VA hospital stood. I was accredited to represent veterans all the way to the Board of Veterans Appeals Court in Washington D.C. by the American Legion, VFW, Blinded Veterans Association, AMVETS, Texas Veterans Commission, Paralyzed Veterans Association and other organizations.

Representing deserving veterans was the most rewarding thing I ever did. The pay from the State sucked, though and that is why I went back to the FAA when I got the chance in 1998 as well as I was getting burned out seeing and dealing with all the incompetence around me. Nothing like a social worker bringing a young veteran down to my office with his wife and young kids and telling me he needs to apply for benefits and he needs help.  sadly, she knows and tells me he has terminal cancer and will not live 6 more months and he and his family haven't even been told yet by his Doctor and we cannot tell him! Yes, this DID happen more than once and the veterans, despite looking perfectly healthy when they were brought to my office, all died within 6 months and then, widows claims to deal with now!

There were times I saw good and professional care and other times it was a fiasco!  I am a USMC Vietnam Combat Veteran and service-connected already for my hearing. As was the case for a lot of WWll , Korean Conflict and Vietnam vets I helped, the VA system would be the LAST place I would go for care. Just too many variables there and you are almost guaranteed to be treated by a med school physician that rotates between 4 hospitals here in Houston!

[twodko]

The VA is a huge government organ for sure but many of us have no other options. If I had a family or any service related injuries I might very well see the charlie foxtrot experienced by others. I'm 5 away from medicare so i have to do what I can do.

Semper Fi you mugs!

FYI CudaNut, I was SOL for dental coverage too until another ex-squid buddy mention he and his wife have a discount dental
plan with Aetna. Others offer similar plans. My local dentist doesn't accept any discount plans.....jackwagon......but I found another
dentist in my town that does. I signed up with CignaPlus discount dental plan. $135 yearly membership cost for an individual and you pay about 50% the cost of dental services. The website is DentalPlans.com
Again it was a choice I had to make......do I buy an "insurance plan" with a monthly nut and maybe only need it for bi-annual cleanings/check-ups or do I buy a discount plan to use when I need something? The later fit my budget better. Worth looking into guys.

Tom

[charge69]

To twodco:  A veteran is not required to get treatment for service-connected disabilities by the VA but it does have its' advantages. Prescription drugs provided free for SC disabilities and, possibly any condition if you are SC at a high enough percentage ( used to be at least 50%) but be advised, that can also cause problems.

Most young VA doctors don't even crosscheck what else you are taking to check for unwanted side effects! I, personally, knew a fellow who was 100% service-connected due to multiple problems caused by his 2 Vietnam tours as a Special Forces Officer. Nicest guy you would ever meet and it was a sad day we buried him at the Houston VA Cemetery. Anyway, his wife had just got the VA to cut down his medication when he slipped and fell in his own kitchen late one night and hit his head so hard, he died a week later when they unplugged him.

I mentioned his wife had his VA doctors cut down the medication he was taking. Yeah, they cut him down to 82 pills of various strong pain and other medications a day!  that's right ... 82 pills a day! He was a zombie for a few hours after his morning meds and evening meds and never slept at night anymore! I was horrified to find 2 new Harley scooters and a nice '57 Chevy with a 4-speed in his garage. This was despite him having basically no feeling in his legs below his knees due to neuropathy caused by Agent Orange exposure! I still don't know how he kept the bike upright when he had to stop!

[twodko]

My God, that poor guy! RIP brother. I haven't had my first face to face with a doc yet and I know its also doc roulette but my former doc gave me enough Rx to get by until I can begin getting Rx through the VA office. I will most def be taking my current Rx bottles with me so the transition doesn't get dicked up.......and eyeballing the new ones I get for mistakes.

It could be worse. Thanks for your thoughts and prospective, means a great deal to me.

Tom

[charge69]

twodco,  listen brother, showing the Doctor you get to visit what you are already taking is certainly no guarantee you will get a medicine that is compatible with your current meds. The internet is your friend!  Take time to research any and all cross-compatibility issues that might exist !

I don't know where you live or what VA facility you might visit but, if you a going to a VA clinic in a smaller town, your chances of good and proper care are better. The VA Hospital here in Houston Tx. is a nightmare to get appointments for your care. Think 6 months and longer wait times and a zoo when you do get to go! Hope your experience is better!

[charge69]

To Paul G.  :  I apologize for hijacking your thread about joining the Navy.  My experience in joining the Marines was so long ago that it has no bearing whatsoever on this thread and that is why I did not address it.

I sincerely hope the hurdles can be cleared and your son can embrace his desire to join !  It amazes me how hard it is to join any of the services now!

[twodko]

Man that's just not right. I hope for the best, the clinic I'm going to is in Santa Rosa, People's Republic of Kalifornia. All the Rx I take is generic but still, same same, double check and check again

[twodko]

Same here Paul, apologies.

[Paul G]

twodco,  listen brother, showing the Doctor you get to visit what you are already taking is certainly no guarantee you will get a medicine that is compatible with your current meds. The internet is your friend!  Take time to research any and all cross-compatibility issues that might exist !

That goes right along with what my father in law does. He uses the VA because it saves him money, but double checks the docs himself, and they have made mistakes.

To Paul G.  :  I apologize for hijacking your thread about joining the Navy.  My experience in joining the Marines was so long ago that it has no bearing whatsoever on this thread and that is why I did not address it.

I sincerely hope the hurdles can be cleared and your son can embrace his desire to join !  It amazes me how hard it is to join any of the services now!

Same here Paul, apologies.

Not a problem what so ever. Your knowledge and information could be very helpful to others on this board, and that is what this board is all about.

[Paul G]

The recruiter just told my son to come back in June. Got nothing for him right now. He is very disappointed to say the least. So, he is looking for Police jobs now. There are several cities and towns in the south burbs of Chicago that are accepting applicants. His dui is now 6 years ago. He is working part time in a video store for $8 an hour. Cant live on that kind of money.

[Paul G]

Here we go again. After being told last year to come back to the Navy recruiter in June 2014, my son went back to see them this week. The Navy recruitment office he was going to closed down, so he found another nearby. They took his info, looked up his file, which they found, talked with the previous recruiter that was handling his file and told him they will try to get him through. It seems like things might be picking up with all the middle eastern BS picking up steam. 

I hope this time they might have something for him. He applied at a couple local city police departments over the past few months. He estimated around 200 applicants showed up on test day for 2 Police Officer positions. He saw this at both departments that he applied to.

Early this year he took a job working for the state prison system making $12/hr. After a month of training and about 4 weeks working as a guard, nights, basically alone in the cell block, he had an inmate crawl up to the guard station who had just been beaten bloody by the other inmates. My son immediately called for back up, it took 15 minutes for back up to arrive, the whole time the beaten up guy laying on the floor in blood. My son would not exit the guard station alone. After that incident, along with a few other incidents, mainly poorly performing guards along with corruption, he quit. Got a job working for Best Buy in loss prevention making the same money and no one gets beaten up, not fearful for his own safety.

It sucks finding decent work right now.     

[Mike DC]

Early this year he took a job working for the state prison system making $12/hr. After a month of training and about 4 weeks working as a guard, nights, basically alone in the cell block, he had an inmate crawl up to the guard station who had just been beaten bloody by the other inmates. My son immediately called for back up, it took 15 minutes for back up to arrive, the whole time the beaten up guy laying on the floor in blood. My son would not exit the guard station alone. After that incident, along with a few other incidents, mainly poorly performing guards along with corruption, he quit.

Hey, the prisons have to turn a profit somehow.