Detonation, 10.7 ratio and 91 octane isn't working. ****UPDATES ****

[Kern Dog]

I  am not very familiar with the operation of the Methanol kits.
Here is an update:
The compression guage that I was using has a flaw: The needle starts at 30 PSI ! I tested the engine using a defective guage and it gave false/high readings!
I didn't notice it until I already had the 1.6 rocker arms in the left side. I went for the guage to test the difference between the left 1.6 side and the right stock 1.5ish side. All the RH cylinders showed to be between 25 and 27 lbs lower than before, now in the 190-195 range. AFTER installing the 1.6 rockers on both sides, the numbers didn't drop much. The 1357 side is between 185 and 188 and the right side is between 187 and 191.
The spark plugs were replaced along with the plug wires. The car idles a little smoother, but also a little lower. Power may have increased, but not a whole lot. ZERO detonation, but to be fair, I have a 50-50 mix of 110 and 91 in the tank. I'd need to run this batch out and fill up with 91 to know if this made any difference. I was tempted to retard the cam when I finished the rocker installation, but I figured that since the cranking PSI didn't drop much, I probably should move forward with a cam swap. No biggie...I figured that any high performance cam, especially a solid cam, needs an adjustable valvetrain.
All this chatter about guys running low 11s and high 10s with 500 inch B body cars has me anxious. The thought that a switch to a bigger cam (Along with the appropriate carb and ignition tuning) could unleash more power, it is very tempting!

[2Luke2]

I'm glad to hear you're getting it straightened out. Appreciate the information as you go along!

[firefighter3931]

Those cranking comp numbers seem more in line. 

I still think a cam swap is in your future if you want to run this beast on 91 pump swill 


Ron

[Budnicks]

  What's the current prognosis, what parts, gaskets & camshaft, did you finally settle on, just curious....  we need an update, good luck

[Kern Dog]

Hey guys...
I have a pile of parts ready to go in. YES I decided to go with a bigger camshaft. I bought a Lunati Solid flat tappet, 316/326. It has 261* INT and 271* EXH @ .050 and with my 1.6 rockers, the lift is .578 INT and .600 EXH. After valve lash, it is .558/.578 with a 108 LSA. The intake closing is almost 10 degrees later than the '509.
I ordered those cool EDM solid lifters that have the tiny oiling hole in the face of the lifter. This ensures a steady stream of oil to the cam lobes. I have a new Edelbrock timing set, all the gaskets too. NEW Milodon 6 quart HEMI oil pan and pickup AND the new composite windage tray from Jegs that uses NO gaskets! It has a twin rib rubber seal similar to what is used on the Mopar Performance 904 and 727 transmission pans.

I've taken too many shortcuts in the past, thinking that I could just throw parts together and expect it all to work out. My better sense here is driving me to actually degree the cam instead of just installing it "dot to dot". I have read numerous times about checking piston to valve clearance, but have never done that either. I want to make sure that all the parts are properly working together so it makes power and holds together. All of these upgrades have been in an effort to improve streetability and make more power. I have been getting anxious with this stuff... thoughts of drag racing have been running through my head. I'm a big fan of making a car handle well, so the car is at a disadvantage to a dedicated drag car. Big T bars, sway bars, wide, low profile tires at all corners don't make a great drag car. I still hope to crack into the 11s though.
Once I get someone to help me with degreeing the cam, I'm jumping in to work on it.

[Cooter]

I dunno, if you got enough motor, a buddy here has a badass LS powered Vette, complete with stupid big wheels/low profile tires that runs 6.40's 8th mile.

[Kern Dog]

Forgive my lack of understanding, but is there a ballpark formula to determine a 1/4 mile estimate based on an 1/8th mile ET?

[firefighter3931]

Forgive my lack of understanding, but is there a ballpark formula to determine a 1/4 mile estimate based on an 1/8th mile ET?

Take the 1/8 mile ET and multiply by 1.57   


Ex ; 6.40 x 1.57 = 10.04  1/4 mile ET



Ron

[Budnicks]

Hey guys...
I have a pile of parts ready to go in. YES I decided to go with a bigger camshaft. I bought a Lunati Solid flat tappet, 316/326. It has 261* INT and 271* EXH @ .050 and with my 1.6 rockers, the lift is .578 INT and .600 EXH. After valve lash, it is .558/.578 with a 108 LSA. The intake closing is almost 10 degrees later than the '509.
I ordered those cool EDM solid lifters that have the tiny oiling hole in the face of the lifter. This ensures a steady stream of oil to the cam lobes. I have a new Edelbrock timing set, all the gaskets too. NEW Milodon 6 quart HEMI oil pan and pickup AND the new composite windage tray from Jegs that uses NO gaskets! It has a twin rib rubber seal similar to what is used on the Mopar Performance 904 and 727 transmission pans.

I've taken too many shortcuts in the past, thinking that I could just throw parts together and expect it all to work out. My better sense here is driving me to actually degree the cam instead of just installing it "dot to dot". I have read numerous times about checking piston to valve clearance, but have never done that either. I want to make sure that all the parts are properly working together so it makes power and holds together. All of these upgrades have been in an effort to improve streetability and make more power. I have been getting anxious with this stuff... thoughts of drag racing have been running through my head. I'm a big fan of making a car handle well, so the car is at a disadvantage to a dedicated drag car. Big T bars, sway bars, wide, low profile tires at all corners don't make a great drag car. I still hope to crack into the 11s though.
Once I get someone to help me with degreeing the cam, I'm jumping in to work on it.

Thanks for the update..

[SRT-440]

This is an interesting thread. Meth/Alky kits work great...I run 100% meth on my GN and that's the only way it stays alive with 26#'s of boost. Couldn't get it out of the 12's without it..now it run's 11.2x with zero knock. 87-91 octane around town and 116 when I put my foot it it.

I need a kit on my RR...last compression test it got cracked out  220ish+ PSI per cylinder..lol.

[69charger440]

With that cam check:

Valve retainer to Valve guide clearance.
Valve retainer to Rocker arm clearance through full rotation
Coil Bind on the springs.

Always a great ideal to check piston to valve clearance... 

[Kern Dog]

Thanks for the suggestions.
Today I bought a degree wheel kit. It has the wheel, the dial indicator, 2 light springs to replace the standard valvesprings, a piston stop and some instructions.

[Kern Dog]

#1 picture didn't come through...
Here it is:

[Kern Dog]

Check out these lifters!
EDM style. That wide recess in the middle is strange looking!

[Kern Dog]

Forgive me if you're already familiar with this stuff. It is new to me.
The EDM lifters have a hole in them to deliver oil from the lifter oil gallery, through the body of the lifter to the cam lobes.
The picture shows. The Lifter on the left shows a small hole in the recessed portion. Thats where the oil enters. The lifter on the right shows the base of the lifter where the oil exits.
With holes this small, I'll have to be even MORE diligent about oil changes.

[Kern Dog]

I plan to degree the cam this weekend if I can get the right pushrods. I have to mock it up and measure. If I can't get the pushrods locally, I'll have to order through Summit or Jegs.
I just read how to measure Piston to Valve clearance with the heads on.

[firefighter3931]

With that cam check:

Valve retainer to Valve guide clearance.
Valve retainer to Rocker arm clearance through full rotation
Coil Bind on the springs.

Always a great ideal to check piston to valve clearance... 

Good suggestions 

Just to add to that ; you should also be looking at the spring rate that is required for that cam with a 1.6:1 rocker ratio. INMHO you will need a better valvespring than is on the head, currently. 

Something like the Comp 928 or Isky 8005 would fill the bill. When you break-in the cam the inner springs will have to be removed. Both of these are double springs and too much pressure during the break-in procedure will wipe the cam and lifters. 



Ron